The Instigator
Amanda1242
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
The_Scapegoat_bleats
Con (against)
Winning
18 Points

Men should have a say in the abortion of his & hers baby, yes or no?

Do you like this debate?NoYes+4
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
The_Scapegoat_bleats
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/28/2014 Category: People
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,049 times Debate No: 47982
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (30)
Votes (5)

 

Amanda1242

Pro

It's not his baby...It's not her baby...It's thier baby. So yes, the father does have a say in whether or not they should abort their baby.
The_Scapegoat_bleats

Con

Abortion and childbirth BOTH bear a measurable risk of death for the mother.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
The father's life is never in danger.
Since it's her life at stake - and an appeal to probability about how low the mortality rate is and how abysmal the danger is would be a fallacy - the husband should not have a say in it, regardless of whose child this is. If only one mother died because her husband convinced her to give birth or have an abortion - either way he should be held responsible for the death of his wife.

Debate Round No. 1
Amanda1242

Pro

As long as it is not a life or death situation or she was not rapped for the women to have that baby, the father has every right to say no he wants the child. That baby, may I remind you, is not just hers it is his child too. If she don't want to get pregnant then she needs to do birth control or keep her legs closed.
The_Scapegoat_bleats

Con

Complications during birth or abortion cannot be predicted. They happen rarely, but they happen.
Once the medical procedure (whichever of the two) reaches a point of actual hazard, it's too late to decide anything.
Just imagine: the woman lying on a table has internal bleeding due to the abortion and is dying. And then? How is she then supposed to tell the doctors: "I changed my mind. Let's not abort this baby!"
Or the other way round: the woman gives birth, an artery ruptures, she's bleeding to death and says: "I want an abortion!"

Your rebuttal makes absolutely no sense. The decision whether to have the baby or an abortion has to be made fairly early on. At a time when it can in no way be determined whether there will be an actual life-threatening situation. Birth and abortion are, as I proved with my source above, always life or death situations.
For the child to begin with, as it will live (birth) or die (abortion), but also for 8.8 in 100,000 women. The source says: "The mortality rate related to induced abortion was 0.6 deaths per 100,000 abortions"

The numbers are irrelevant, as stated above (appeal to probability fallacy), the fact remains that women died. And if they willingly took that risk, it is their personal matter and nobodies business except theirs. But if these women die because their partner "had a say" in the decision, that is basically manslaughter through culpable negligence.

You claim that the baby is "the father's", but I do not see any proof how that gives the father the right to put the mother in mortal danger. One human can never possess another human. This is not about the fetus, it's about the life of the mother, as I have already pointed out. If you do not want to rebut that, I will have to consider this conceded.

Every method of birth control has a chance of failure: http://www.cdc.gov...

This list shows alarming numbers:
Even female sterilization leads to 1 out of 200 women becoming pregnant involuntarily.
Condoms result in 18 out of 100 women to become pregnant anyway.

That is the reason we're having this discussion in the first place. What couple trying to have a baby would abort the child? You apparently haven't understood your own resolution.

"keep her legs closed" is a very derogatory, misogynistic comment showing a lot of contempt for women. That is not the proper approach to bring this discussion to a satisfactory conclusion. I must ask you to discuss this in a civil manner or please refrain from further "arguments".

You may not "remind" me that the baby is "his child". Your task is to argue for it and convince me or the audience.


Debate Round No. 2
Amanda1242

Pro

Well one form of birth control that never fails is keeping your legs closed to begin with. However, to be honest YOU are the one who does not make sense. I think this is just going to have to be an agree to disagree situation. I am not going to change your point of view nor are you going to change mine. I think our debate is done but thanks for debating with me.
The_Scapegoat_bleats

Con

I thank you for your time.
I conclude with a short summary:
You have failed to refute any of my arguments. You have not presented any relevant arguments of your own.

This debate is indeed over.
Debate Round No. 3
30 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by The_Scapegoat_bleats 2 years ago
The_Scapegoat_bleats
Thanks! That's very thoughtful of you!
Posted by Josh_b 2 years ago
Josh_b
I made an opinion topic because of this debate
http://www.debate.org...
Posted by Amanda1242 2 years ago
Amanda1242
Lol yeah no, it was my computer but whether or not you believe me to be honest ......I really don't care if you believe me or not because I know I am being truthful.
Posted by Amanda1242 2 years ago
Amanda1242
I never attacked you and I am free to say something if I'm happy that someone agreed with me. So.... get over it.
Posted by The_Scapegoat_bleats 2 years ago
The_Scapegoat_bleats
One: You posted here first, after having the only vote in my favour removed (which was a votebomb, so I really don't care)

Posted by Amanda1242 15 hours ago
Amanda1242
Yes! Someone ageers with me.

Two: I took up argument with Fox-McCloud, not YOU. You were not even mentioned.

Posted by The_Scapegoat_bleats 2 hours ago
The_Scapegoat_bleats
@Fox-McCloud: "Appeal to probability" is THE classical fallacy. ...

Three: THEN you came attacking me.
Posted by Amanda1242 1 hour ago
Amanda1242
Goodness, The_Scrapegoat_bleats, you are so wrong.

No argument, nothing new, just an out-of line-comment. TWICE. Sure, blame it on the computer ...
Posted by Amanda1242 2 years ago
Amanda1242
Oh goodness I should know better than to argue with a child-like adult and for that I apologize have a good day. (-:
Posted by Amanda1242 2 years ago
Amanda1242
Okay child, one you kept commenting on my thing even when it was over and two the double post were a mistake in my computer which is acting up if you surely must know that. I deal with children for a living so honestly I can say you're acting like one I had seen your profile your 43 are you really sounds more like 14 or younger.
Posted by The_Scapegoat_bleats 2 years ago
The_Scapegoat_bleats
Well, your double-posts surely make you the ultimate judge of professionalism, don't they?

As for the tone: "Goodness, The_Scrapegoat_bleats, you are so wrong." is a fine example of your own conduct. You lost this debate in my eyes when you came back in the comments and could not let our debate amongst each other stand as it was.

That together with your double-posts only gets to show your insecurity.
"Truthfully I view you as the loser now" - which is exactly what a sore loser would answer. :-)

Have a good day!
Posted by Amanda1242 2 years ago
Amanda1242
Here's some advice for you, if you cannot be professional, then avoid debates.
Posted by Amanda1242 2 years ago
Amanda1242
Actually, I am not a sore loser. Truthfully I view you as the loser now and childush now that you have stooped to name calling just by calling me a "loser" at all.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by Josh_b 2 years ago
Josh_b
Amanda1242The_Scapegoat_bleatsTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I agree with pro. However, Con made the most detailed argument with the most logical supporting opinion. Pro didn't meet her Burden of Proof.
Vote Placed by Krazzy_Player 2 years ago
Krazzy_Player
Amanda1242The_Scapegoat_bleatsTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Con arguments were convincing and was the only one with sources.
Vote Placed by whiteflame 2 years ago
whiteflame
Amanda1242The_Scapegoat_bleatsTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: The reason for the decision here is that I'm never given a reason why men should have a say beyond the fact that he's involved in the baby's creation and would be responsible for its well-being should it be born into the world alive. Pro has to do more than that. She has to explain why that involvement warrants veto power on the abortion decision, and I never see that. I don't see a reason why abortion is wrong in her arguments, and therefore these points about birth control and "keep[ing] her legs closed" really don't factor into the debate beyond supplying some mitigation. As I don't see any actual benefit from Pro, but I do see a very real health harm from Con, it's an easy decision for me. Two sources is enough for me to give sources to Con, especially considering that they functionally support the core things Con has used in his arguments.
Vote Placed by Actionsspeak 2 years ago
Actionsspeak
Amanda1242The_Scapegoat_bleatsTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Con was much more convincing, and had a strong source.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
Amanda1242The_Scapegoat_bleatsTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:00 
Reasons for voting decision: Non-scoring due to my bias... Pro had better conduct, even if not understanding debate structure. Arguments would however go to con, for the quality of his points in addition to them being unchallenged. Two sources would not claim the points on that.