The Instigator
Vicious_Integrity
Con (against)
Losing
21 Points
The Contender
Itsallovernow
Pro (for)
Winning
28 Points

Merit pay based on student achievement is necessary.

Do you like this debate?NoYes-7
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Con Tied Pro
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/2/2010 Category: Education
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,886 times Debate No: 11072
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (41)
Votes (7)

 

Vicious_Integrity

Con

Before we begin I would like to define the terms merit pay and student achievement. Merit pay is defined as an additional sum paid to an employee whose work is superior and whose services are valued. Student achievement is defined as the act of completing a school course. My partner and I would now like to move on to our three contentions that to base merit pay off of student achievement, the U.S would have to come up with a plan so that teachers couldn't cheat the system, teachers don't get to choose who walk through the doors to their classroom and We shouldn't simply withhold money rewards from teachers who are ineffective: we should help them improve or evaluate them out of the profession.
Contention 1: To base merit pay off of student achievement, the U.S. would have to come up with a plan (extremely close to standardized testing) so that teachers couldn't cheat the system. This seems as though it would work out amazingly well, however it has been proven that standardized testing (and tests like it) actually damages education. A source from fairtest.org had this to say:
Despite their biases, inaccuracies, limited ability to measure achievement or ability, and other flaws, schools use standardized tests to determine if children are ready for school, track them into instructional groups; diagnose for learning disability, retardation and other handicaps; and decide whether to promote, retain in grade, or graduate many students. Schools also use tests to guide and control curriculum content and teaching methods.
Though theses tests are good enough to define and diagnose the previously listed conditions, no test is good enough to serve as the sole or primary basis for important educational decisions. Readiness tests that determine if a child is ready for school are extremely inaccurate and encourage the use of primary schooling. Groups most affected and hurt by these tests include students from low-income families and minority classes. They are likely to be put in special education programs that are not needed or are more likely to be given a more watered down version of curriculum. In many districts, raising test scores has become the single most important indicator of school improvement. As a result, teachers and administrators feel enormous pressure to ensure that test scores go up. Schools narrow and change the curriculum to match the test. Teachers teach only what is covered on the test. Methods of teaching conform to the multiple-choice format of the tests. Tests that measure as little and as poorly as multiple-choice tests cannot provide genuine accountability.
Contention 2: Teachers don't get to choose who walk through their doors. It's the luck of the draw. Good teachers certainly believe all children can learn, and want them to. But success in terms of test scores depends on many factors, mostly too obvious to mention, outside the teachers' control. Not the least among these is the support of fellow practitioners. In many cases, a child's learning requires the support of others besides just the classroom teacher. It depends on an administrator who can effectively create a climate for learning in the school. It may depend on reading specialists who can help students comprehend their textbooks. It may depend on intervention specialists who helps devise strategies for teaching disabled students to make more effective gains. It even depends on successful foundations provided by teachers in previous grade levels.
Contention 3: We shouldn't simply withhold money rewards from teachers who are ineffective: we should help them improve or evaluate them out of the profession. Merit pay advocates also hope that a compensation structure will do that job of evaluating teachers that should properly be done by effective building administrators. The myth that teachers' unions protect bad teachers from dismissal is not true: bad administrators protect bad teachers from dismissal or non-renewal. But teacher evaluation is more complicated than simply looking at test scores. It requires careful examination of specific teacher behaviors in the classroom, of how a teacher relates to students, and his or her command of the subject matter they are teaching. This cannot be judged simply by looking at test scores, which may be high in some cases in spite of uninspiring instruction: it requires an effective and highly skilled administrator who knows what she is looking for when she observes a teacher interacting with her students, and who is skilled at helping teachers improve. In short, pay for performance provides an easy way out when quality supervision of instruction is what should really be taking place.

I negate the resolution that merit pay based on student achievement is necessary. I strongly urge a neg ballet.
Itsallovernow

Pro

My opponent has copied and pasted his arguements from this following source:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

=CONTENTION 1=

My opponent is a BIG FAT PLAGARIZER!!! In this, none of his arguements can be trusted as legitimate. Therefore, with no valid arguements, I have won this debate.

VOTE PRO
Debate Round No. 1
Vicious_Integrity

Con

Uh. no i didnt copy paste it but whateve.
Debate Round No. 2
Vicious_Integrity

Con

You're wrong, I'm right. Get over it. Vote Pro
Itsallovernow

Pro

We shall let the voters decide. If you are correct, then you shall win...and so it begins!
Debate Round No. 3
41 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Itsallovernow 7 years ago
Itsallovernow
You too.
Posted by infam0us 7 years ago
infam0us
alright, i'm not going argue over it anymore. if her case and arguments were entirely plagiarized then i could understand all the hassle but they weren't. we just don't see eye to eye on this sort of thing and with that being said, i'm going to drop this. GL in the rest of your debates.
Posted by Vicious_Integrity 7 years ago
Vicious_Integrity
Ok Jacka** I'm getting really sick of your constant bs-ing that the case was plagerized. Like my partner stated, we used a quote. We didn't steal the case, so shut the F*** up about my god d*** case, b****.
Posted by Itsallovernow 7 years ago
Itsallovernow
Well then, I don't see any quotations, and she gives no source herself, so why is that not plagarizing?
Princton Dictionary defines plagarism thusly:

To take without referencing from someone else's writing or speech

And she did not provide referance. By definition, she plagarized. Get over it, infam0us and realize that this is, indeed, a plagarized point.
Posted by infam0us 7 years ago
infam0us
dude, just stop. you've rebuked nothing. i was her pf partner for a tournament and she used this case. yes, one of her points is taken entirely from the source but it's just a big direct quote. the rest of the case is her own words. take idiot with a grain of salt, please.
Posted by Itsallovernow 7 years ago
Itsallovernow
Why does Infamous bring up another debate in it's entirety? Also, I do not feel as if the "idiot" comment about me was nessicary. If in fact she did come up with this, then a 35 year old reporter (David Regal) copied her entire case in a debate topic, something which I have a hard time believing. So, I think something is very, very wrong here.
Posted by XimenBao 7 years ago
XimenBao
copypasta is not evidence
Posted by Loserboi 7 years ago
Loserboi
LOL plan just backfired there hahahaha
Posted by Vicious_Integrity 7 years ago
Vicious_Integrity
I AM a 15 year old female. In PF we have to have facts and evidence to back EVERYTHING UP that's the point. Obviously you loose because you fail to realize the difference between evidence and plagiarizing.
Posted by Itsallovernow 7 years ago
Itsallovernow
You say ur a 15 female, but the article says it was created by David Regal, a man. You seemed to have plagarized, my friend.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by Itsallovernow 7 years ago
Itsallovernow
Vicious_IntegrityItsallovernowTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by PrincessLindsey 7 years ago
PrincessLindsey
Vicious_IntegrityItsallovernowTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
Vicious_IntegrityItsallovernowTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by XimenBao 7 years ago
XimenBao
Vicious_IntegrityItsallovernowTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Grape 7 years ago
Grape
Vicious_IntegrityItsallovernowTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by infam0us 7 years ago
infam0us
Vicious_IntegrityItsallovernowTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by Cherymenthol 7 years ago
Cherymenthol
Vicious_IntegrityItsallovernowTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70