Metal (Pro) Vs. (Insert Genre Here)
Debate Rounds (4)
I'll start off with statement of sorts: Most people that debate this don't know much about music and are genre-heads. (a.k.a listen to only one genre) I like most genres of music. But I do believe metal (not being specific) is the best genre overall.
Anyone who disagrees, please accept. I'd look forward to a non-religion/political debate.
1. Just state what genre you think is better.
2. Golden Rule
3. HAVE FUN. :D
1st Round: Acceptance.
2nd Round: Start Debate
4th: Conclusion/Ending Arguments
I accept. I'll advocate for Rap being the best overall genre of music.
Here are a few short reasons why metal is the best genre.
1. Sheer amount of diversity.
2. Best Lyrics
3. Most vocal diversity.
4. Harsh vocals are a lot harder to do than people think it is.
5. Most difficult music to create and requires the most skill to produce.
6. Attempts to get rid of myths and what I won't be covering.
1. As someone who likes all genres of music, one big reason I find metal to be the best genre period is because, every single genre has been mixed in with metal. Metal is purely the most expansive genre. Here are just the many genres it has.
https://www.youtube.com... - Metal/Reggae
https://www.youtube.com... - Metal/Folk
https://www.youtube.com... - Metal/Comedy
https://www.youtube.com... Metal/Swing Jazz
This could go on forever, and even not taking other specific genres into account (like power metal vs deathcore) it has dozens and dozens of variations. No other genre can claim the sheer amount of diversity that metal can.
2. Because of the sheer amount of genres metal covers, it also covers the most lyrically too. Things like Sabaton, describe in great detail about the world wars. A thing this genre that so many other genres lack, our good concept albums. Things like oh,sleeper depict if god and satan we're shown to the world only to both appear to have disappeared, following a older man and his daughter, he was a priest who begins to stop believing in god and kill people because he believes he is a judge, and an atheist daughter who is raped. starts to believe god is still around. It all ends with the world being covered in fire. Stuff like that, I'd read a book about that. It just has the most diverse lyrics and the most interesting. Most genres at best cover love songs, and doing drugs, getting by in life. It's boring to listen to it over and over again. Most genres just don't have unique or interesting things to say.
3. As I pointed out in the sheer amount of content, vocal diversity also rains supreme. It has acapella, clean singers of all kinds, rapping, many different types of harsh vocals, guttural, high pitch, growls. Other genres are limited in scope and there just isn't as many good vocalists.
4. Harsh vocals are made fun of a lot. Saying its just screaming, but most don't understand most of it isn't very loud at all and if not done right hurts vocals permanently. But you can do them in a way that won't. Many good singers try to learn screaming vocals after the already learned how to sing. Because they are hard to do and do safely. It's not as hard as singing maybe. But you can sing badly for hours, try fake screaming and have a sore throat before the song even finishes.
5. Real instruments are far harder to use then a computer. I've made electronica, its really easy to do. Many songs copy off people. Pop songs are usually 4 chords. Rap and techno's music is a lot of sampling and loops. Even rock or folk, some strumming on your guitar verses power metal guitar soloing. Its harder to create and produce metal because of it's complexity. Which means it has merit. It really is pure opinion on what 'sounds' good. One ear will not like what another ear likes. One person will think all of one genre sounds the same and vice versa. But ask yourself, which probably took more time and effort to produce. Metal usually wins hands down.
6. All genres can be good or bad influences, metal is not satanic or any worse influence wise than any other genre. And certain 'fans' of the genre are bad apples and should not effect how the genre itself is. I don't think making any arguments of this sort are helpful or have any truth to them in any genre.
So in a nutshell, it requires more talent to make. Most diverse in its music and in its lyrical content. Which is why I think its the best genre overall. Period.
Thanks to Pro for the fun debate.
I want to kind of cut to the chase really quickly on the debate to save both Pro and I a little bit of time. We can both be throwing out reasons why our genre is better than the other genre for days and come up with books of reasons why our genre is better, but at the end of the day what really matters is: what are the qualities that makes a good genre of music? I'd argue that a genre's ability to diversify to reach different audiences, it's ability to challenge the talented, as well as invite the not-so-talented to try, and it's ability to appeal to the populace. In all three catagories, rap (also known as hip-hop) is the superior genre.
While my opponent makes a decent argument in showing how metal interacts with other genre's and is compatable, it's just absolutely dwarfed in comparison to rap's influence and interaction with other genres. With nearly sixty different subgenre's of rap(1), not even including national and regional differences in the hip-hop scene, rap just absolutely demolishes metal in that sense.
Lyrically, rap is just as diverse, if not more so, than metal. Everything from thug life(2), to raps that tell a story that addresses topics such as depression, abuse, and suicide(3), to witty battles between popular figures from all walks of life(4), anything and everything gets addressed by rap lyrics.
Moreover, rap has another edge in audibility. One of the most common problems with metal music is while screaming well can be very difficult to do without destroying your vocals, it's equally difficult for people to listen to and understand. This discourages people from listening to the music, and creates problems for those trying to understand the lyrics(5)(6)(7)(8)(9). Rap doesn't have this barrier since the lyrics are spoken, not screamed.
Musically, as well as lyrically, rap has the edge over metal in terms of diversity.
I'd be willing to posit that all types of music have about as high of a skill ceiling as you're willing to go: bands are constantly looking for new ways to improve their music. Metal music players have ways to improve their screams (and god hasn't everyone heard at least one amazingly sick guitar solo in a metal song that just made them melt in epicness), but rappers have the same in melding words together to create different emotions and impacts, mixing beats that get us off our feet and get crazy.
However, this is where my opponent's argument about the harshness of doing screaming works against him here: screaming well and screaming in a way that doesn't destroy your vocals is, as he himself admits, very difficult to do. If you do it even slightly wrong your voice box gets absolutely destroyed, which means the learning curve to becoming decent at metal is a lot harder vocally. Instrumentally, the same thing applies. The technical ability required to perform the insane guitar rifts that are the norm in metal songs, the raging drum beats and bass lines, all requires a high level of proficiency just to be average. This makes it harder for people to get into the metal scene and become at least decent, if not eventually good, metal players and vocalists.
Rap doesn't have this issue. String a few words that rhyme together, come up with a few witty retorts or a decent story with rhymes in it, and suddenly off you go, rapping away without a care in the world. The music, as my opponent himself admits, is also easier to make, meaning that there are more ways for people to create the beats required to rap.
To conclude, both genres have high skill ceilings in terms of who the best artists are, meaning that skill should be decided on how low the skill floor is. The lower the skill floor, the more inclusive the genre is, meaning more people can participate in making the music as well as listening to it. By my opponent's own arguments, metal music is harder to make both instrumentally and lyrically than rap music.
Rap music takes the edge here as well.
This argument is relatively straight-forward: the best genres are ones that people listen to. The only reason people make music, outside of the whole "I enjoy making this music", is to share the music they make with the rest of the world. This puts the deciding factor on what the best genres of music are on the public: the better the music, the more people who are going to listen to it. So what time is it? Stats time!
In 2011, 14.7% of American listened to rap music, compared to 9.5% of Americans who listened to metal. 2012 had the same results, with 13.1% of Americans listening to rap compared to 10.2% of Americans listening to metal.(10)
This means that more people are listening to rap, making it the prefered genre of the people. Score one for rap, once again.
In all the categories that makes a genre great, rap is superior to metal music. I'll kick the floor back over to my opponent now.
(2) The first video
(3) The second video
(4) The third video
2 of them are parodies. Stan being a sarcastic look at a crazy fan and epic rap battles are silly parodies. Waka flocka flame which is what a good majority of rap is and has become. The lyrics of the wacka flocka flame song are inane and have nothing in terms of clever word play or interesting lyrics. I can't even post a link to show it because of the profanity in the title. You said they've been influenced by many genres but didn't really show any evidence. I'd love you to show me swing jazz rap, classical rap, fusion sax rap. Things that metal has done many times. You say its lyrical diverse covering more serious topics. I've pointed out metal does all this too. I've never seen rap do a good concept album that is an interesting as what I mentioned previously.
You did not show much proof for your arguments or even give me any names in the genre to describe why they are diverse?
http://www.azlyrics.com... <-- These lyrics are like a poem itself. Two albums are concept pieces that are far more complex than any rappers lyrics. Eluveitie-Helvetios, Is an album about a tribe of helvetians and the Romans and a real life story of their home land and what Ceaser did to them.
You will not find rap albums doing this...Its not even close to being as diverse as this genre lyrically. Or musically.
Find rap with, a hurdy gurdy, or a didgeridoo. Diablo swing orchestra and eluveitie have you covered in metal, I've already posted the bands links.
So, you admit rapping is easy and takes little skill. And making beats also requires no talent.
And that harsh vocals and metal instruments take a lot of skill to do right, And rap has an edge? I disagree. Because music is art. The more complex the art, the better it is. This is like saying finger painting is better than making the Mona Lisa because all three year olds would prefer drawing with finger paint. I suppose I don't disagree, but I really don't understand your method.
"Rap doesn't have this issue. String a few words that rhyme together, come up with a few witty retorts or a decent story with rhymes in it, and suddenly off you go, rapping away without a care in the world."
"To conclude, both genres have high skill ceilings in terms of who the best artists are"
You contradict yourself here. "String a few words together" doesn't not sound like a very skillful required process you make it sound like a piece of cake. And you admit rap beats are easy to use. Also to point out, rappers don't even posses that skill as they never make their own beats and most beats sample other songs.
Some are so talented to be one man bands, do all the instruments their selves. Also they're are many teens and young adults that can play instruments. It's not that metal is too hard to get into or impossible for the average man to accomplish, but it requires more effort. And therefore is more rewarding.
Your own information helps me more, in your own statistics. Rap is slowly becoming less listened to and metal is increasing. Also the difference is a mere 2 percent. How long before it gets even smaller? Sales for all genres of music has plummeted. Less people listen to the radio every day. Popular doesn't equal good. Slavery was popular at one time, wasn't good. Most rap fans admit that most good rappers aren't popular.
Also rap is the only genre to have diss songs. It is the most childish form of rap, and its still happening on current radio, like nikki minaj anaconda's skinny shaming. And things underground like hopsin, popular for dissing other rappers. Your not going see lyrics displayed in metal like that.
http://www.complex.com... Also 10 rappers who are well known who say they don't even like or listen to the genre they create. I don't see this as a good thing.
Your yahoo answers links are pointless. And ign is a gaming journal. But your yahoo answer and ign questioned are all answered with yes we understand them perfectly...
Also its not like metal is impossible to not become popular, metal has gotten on billboards top 100. Even making it number one. Millions and millions of people still listen to the genre. Hell in other countries its the far more popular genre than rap. Like Norway as one of the many examples.
Rappers have created plenty of content where you can barely understand anything they say. Most people only care about the beats and those aren't created by the rappers.
https://www.youtube.com... <- Proof that rappers are not always very understandable.
Can one like metal and not like screaming?: Yes, There are decades of metal, none of them used harsh vocals like modern day metal does. Like judas priest, anthrax, metallica, motorhead. Most power metal has no screamed vocals. Most symphonic metal usually great female vocalists far better than any hook provided by guest artists from rappers.
https://www.youtube.com... <-- Power metal, a genre with very few harsh vocalist, it also is another vocal style, rap does not have nor does any other genre.
https://www.youtube.com... <---Metal has plenty of clean singing most of them sing better than most pop stars, the reason their voices have to strong to get through the bombast of the music. A pop singer would not be able to keep up with the metal as easily as the other way around.
https://www.youtube.com... <--Notice her weak presence and also the obvious autotune and effects.
There are thousands of metal bands with no screaming what so ever. Hell, look at me original posts, a couple examples of the vocal diversity of metal.
Even then, Many harsh vocalists have a great singing voice.
https://www.youtube.com... <-- That's the sound of screaming, pig squealing admittedly once of my least favorite. Just a few seconds in and you'll get my point.
https://www.youtube.com... <-- Same guy, beautiful voice. Better than most pop singers I've heard of the radio. Better than enimem singing for sure.
Can you like rap, and want more then talking?: Eh, your sort of out of luck. Maybe a hook from another singer you'd like more if you just listened to them. Some rappers sing poorly like eminem as used in my pros example.
https://www.youtube.com... <- Play this side by side the link above, who sings better?
Metal artists try a lot harder to produce good things for consumers. And if paying money, I'd like to not be a sucker. Metal requires more talent. It's lyrics are more diverse. There are thousands of metal bands that have no harsh vocals, therefore screaming isn't a problem. Rap, as the pro said. "String a few word together" With beats they didn't create. Most likely with lines they didn't even write...As many have ghost writers. It's not very diverse instrumentally, or lyrically. Defiantly not compared to metal albums. Metal is the best genre. I don't disagree that rhyming words is insulting easy to do, and that apple loops are ridiculous simple things to create. And all I have to do is steal a good song's hook. And my song will be liked for that alone. But I don't see how that makes it the best genre.
(I cut about 4 thousand characters from this argument so it would fit. Hopefully it remains clear.)
My opponent strawmans and takes out of context half of my arguments, then drops the other half of them. I'm going to illustrate this round why you can't do that and still expect to win. I'll respond to my opponent's objections, then re-extend my points as to why rap is superior to metal.
== Defenses ==
Opponent's claim: "You used three videos to show diversity of rap."/"You said they've been influenced by many genres but didn't really show any evidence."
Response: False. I provided a link detailing over 60 different subgenres of rap, as well as differences within each region of each nation and how those regional and national differences influences the rap culture of that region/nation. This was something you never touched on in your round, rather just said I never provided any evidence to show it and didn't address the evidence I provided.
Opponent's claim: "I'd love you to show me swing jazz rap, classical rap, fusion sax rap."
Response: Done(1), done(2), and done(3). Next?
Opponent's claim: "I've never seen rap do a good concept album that is an interesting as what I mentioned previously."
Response: First, this doesn't actually mean rap is inferior to metal, it just means you don't have as good of exposure to rap as you think you do. Second, raps lyrics do more than just talk about old history. "NY State of Mind"(4) is a song that takes a concept originally introduced by Homer in the Iliad about how sleep and death are similar, then relates it in a non-literal sense to describe the atmosphere and mentality of those who live and work in New York City: just don't stop for a breather, or you'll lose out. To quote directly from the rap(5): "I never sleep 'cause sleep is the cousin of death"
Opponent's claim: "So, you admit rapping is easy and takes little skill. And making beats also requires no talent."
Response: No, can you not misquote me and take my statements out of context? My argument is that at the highest levels, both metal and rap takes higher amouts of skill to do well: good metal songs are difficult to produce, just like good rap songs and beats take a lot of time and effort to produce, as well as both genres have the most successful artists constantly looking for ways to innovate and improve their work. This means that, in theory, the skill ceiling for both genres (or any genre for that matter) is basically infinite. This means that skill will come down to which genre is easier to get into and start producing. By your own admission, rap is easier to write and easier to create music for, which means that the skill floor is lower. This means that more people can get involved in the rap scene and make music, which is a net benefit. Metal music, by your own argument, is harder to make both lyrically and musically, which means less people can get involved in it and less people can make it, which is a negative overall.
Opponent's claim: "Rap is slowly becoming less listened to and metal is increasing."
Response: First, saying that more people are listening to metal music and less people are buying all types of music makes literally no sense. The main way we even track the popularity of genres of music is through tracking the sales of different types of genres: the more sales, the more people who are listening to the music, therefore the more popular it is. Saying something is more popular but selling less makes absolutely no sense. Secondly, even if you're right though, Rap is still more popular in both 2011 and 2012 compared to metal from my own sources. The overall trend isn't as important since by your own admission all genres of music are selling less, so the only thing that matters at that point is just overall popularity, in which both years rap was superior. Third, even if sales are declining overall, then the only way we can determine popularity is by views on things like youtube. Looking at the top ten music videos of all time, absolutely zero of them are metal, and five of them are either a) rap songs, or b) incorperate rap in the song(6).
Opponent's claim: "Popular doesn't equal good. Slavery ..."
Response: First, this literally ignores the analysis I provide above the popularity argument as to why popularity matters in terms of determining the superior genre. The entire point of making music, aside from enjoying making music personally, is to share it with others. The more people who listen to your music, the more successful you are. This means that popularity is vital to determining the better genre. Second, the slavery analogy makes no sense in relation to music. People produce music to appeal to the masses, which inherently means that the more popular your music is, the better you're doing.
Opponent's claim: "Also 10 rappers who are well known who say they don't even like"
Response: First, there's literally zero impact to this. All he says is "it's not a good thing" but offers no way to evaluate it in terms of the resolution. Second, it's not even relevent. A genre is bigger than a few artists' impressions of a genre. It's not addressing the actual point of the resolution: comparing a genre to another genre. Rather it just harps on individual preferences, which aren't relevent in determining a better genre overall.
Opponent's claim: "Your yahoo answers links are pointless. And ign is a gaming journal. But your yahoo answer and ign questioned are all answered with yes we understand them perfectly..."
Response: Yes clearly the people claiming to having problems understanding screaming can understand them perfectly. /sarcasm
But the links show a very clear point: talking is much easier to understand than screaming. Your counter to this is just citing a rap video and saying "You can't understand it so rap is harder to understand", but a) by your logic I can say "Oh we understand it perfectly" and your response is refuted, and b) I'll take five people saying metal is hard to understand over you saying one rap video is hard to understand, which doesn't even address the genre overall.
The warrants in my argument remain unaddressed: Rap is a) vastly diverse in the number of different subgenres and regional/national differences, each of which have different impacts on Rap overall, b) lyrically just as diverse, if not more diverse, than metal because not only can it just talk about thug life and the typical gun/drugs/sex topics of mainstream rap, but it can also address other topics such as politics, societal issues, and philosophical thoughts/ideas, c) has just as high of a skill ceiling as Metal does, but has a lower skill floor, meaning that more people can get involved in the rap scene which has a net beneficial impact on diversity (more people creating music, more options to choose from), and d) is more popular than metal, and since popularity is the biggest sign of success for music is indicative that rap is overall better and more liked. His responses were off the mark and often times just miscontrsuing my arguments into things that I never said.
== Sources ==
(1) - Video
(2) - http://q13fox.com...
(3) - Second Video
(4) - Video
(5) - http://blogs.westword.com...
(6) - https://www.youtube.com...;
Your first paragraph is something I brought up but it was cut for length. Your wiki post showed genres of rap. Two examples being conscious rap with has nothing to do with music, just lyrics that have social commentary in them. Or political hip-hop. These genres are ridiculous and imply all other rappers have nothing of political or social interests to say. American hip-hip and Canadian Hip-Hop have absolutely no difference beside language. The only difference with the many cultures that rap is language. Nothing is unique, lyrically, musically there. It also does not compare with all the metal sub genres, that actually have music differences, even things like pirate metal, it's not just normal metal talking about pirates...Freestyle rap is nothing to do with different music. It's just words they come up with at the top of their heads. I don't believe lyrics differences alone (which make up a shocking number) should count as a completely different genre. In a different argument entirely, hip hop isn't the same as rap. Which also butchers the genre count.
All three videos, 1. It was made by a youtuber. 2. Also a youtuber... 3. A much better example of rap and talent then waka flocka flame. But, I hear no classic element to that at all. The bit of piano does not equal classical to me.
My point is if this is the best examples you could find, where as my links show very popular, known bands making these consistently, not just a few select track on youtube. I have a feeling if I kept going you'd be scrapping at the barrel to find youtubers that make it.
As me not having a great exposure to rap, Rappers having references to events with there lyrics is a common thing sure, but I consider concept albums to have good theme and lyrics that tell a story. I know a few examples of rap having good concept work but its few and far between.
How do these lyrics.
Yeah, straight out the ****** dungeons of rap
Where fake nig**z don't make it back
I don't know how to start this ****, yo, now
Rappers I monkey flip them with the funky rhythm
I be kickin' musician, inflictin' composition
Have anything to do with Illiad with sleep and death? It may of been his inspiration. But the point is most rap concept albums don't have a cohesive theme or lyrics. Yes it's wordplay, monkey flip talking about wrestling, something completely having nothing to do with sleep or death.
They do make concept albums, and songs about a certain topic but its not as strong as metal, where they don't try to make a clever joke about haters while talking about the war in Iraq or something like that. Or the death of your sister and crying in your expensive alcohol, mentioning your expensive chain. (I cry- florida)
A brief mention of both requiring a lot of talent, I disagree, most rappers do not make their beats, some don't write their lyrics. Yes, its easier to make. But how does that make them more skilled that makes no sense. Even then you can still make metal instrumental sound loops and use drum loops to make metal if you really wanted to, just as easily. And when you purchase something, I want to know they people that made it tried their hardest. By making rap acceptable to use autotune for hooks, and steal music or steal lyrics from other people claiming its a reference. Does not equal skill, or it being better.
You say you can't say more people are listening and say less are buying everything. Um, yes I can. Youtube proves that now doesn't it? You can listen to something, and not buy it. I pointed out your stats are having rap decrease in popularity vs metal increasing if it kept the pattern of your own stats. In a mere two years, metal would be at 11.6 and rap would be at 9.9. My argument is metal has become popular, it also is more popular than rap in other countries but popularity isn't important. Comparing skill...or which is better overall.
Wow, that's twisted, music videos of all time...so the focus being on the video not the song. That statement is very irrelevant. Alright, so popularity alone makes music good and skilled. That's what your going with eh?
https://www.youtube.com... So this?
https://www.youtube.com... More skilled and better than this?
Some things get popular only because of how bad and awfully unskilled they are. More listening to your message does not make it any better. And how many people bought the first one's track on itunes vs the second one. Listening does not equal successful financially or critically either. You also devalue underground rap, stuff which is much better then the mainstream. Which most fans would agree with.
It's not just those 10 rappers, hopsin became famous over his ill mind where he says '**** hiphop'. So many underground or alternative rappers talk down on the mainstream and what is has become, so many rap fans say remember tupac and how rap is dead now. There is an overwhelming amount of fans disappointed in what the genre is becoming.
You did not read my comment on your yahoo posts...I said the many people answering said its easy to understand given time. So eat your sarcasm, its misguided.
The problem is you didn't post any evidence of metal being hard to understand. I at least posted something to counter. Now to go into a HUGE part of my argument you literally said not a single thing about. Metal has decades of clean vocals. Entire genres have better singers than most pop artists. Some even rap...Your only major argument is insignificant compared to all the variety metal has to offer. I have a feeling you didn't even look at any of my links. Or you'd at least of mentioned something. I have commented on everything you've shown me, you have barely scratched my debating points.
Also your videos/links bottom...um had nothing to do with the debate. The last one sends me to nothing so that shows the effort right there. The fifty best rap lyrics of all times was one of them let me show the readers a few of the gems.
1. "The sky is falling, the wind is calling/Stand for something, or die in the morning
Rapper uses biblical verse, so didn't make it himself.
2. You hate it before you played it. I already forgave ya.
A generic anti hater comment.
3. "Rollin' down the street, smokin' indo, sippin' on gin an juice/Lay back with my mind on my money and my money on my mind. Snoop dogg.
Its about drugs,alcohol and chillin...
They're better lines but most aren't so good...
http://www.darklyrics.com... Read some of these songs and try to tell me those lines, are somehow better written.
*miscontrsuing One of your couple misspellings that I've seen. I may not have perfect punctuation or grammar but the spell check they provide caught this...So it shows little effort.
A. Popular Does Not Equal Good or Successful even. (financially or critically)
B. More skill to create, means more skilled genre.
C. Rap is just not as musically or lyrically diverse. Most 'genres' talk about what the rappers lyrics are about or the language being spoken.
D. You missed many of my points and didn't debate them. A few things point to lack of effort. (spell check/broken links/random youtubers instead of real well known artists to prove points which makes his 'popular is important' argument so baffling to me.)
I'm going to go over what's happened in this debate and why I'm winning.
My arguments were that there are three important qualities that make a genre the best: diversity, skill, and populariy. I've proved that rap is superior to metal in all three categories. Moreover, you're preferring my standards that I've established because a) my opponent hasn't contested them, rather has tried to show that metal fits these guidelines better, and b) his own arguments are modeled after these, therefore if these guidelines weren't the best to look at then literally none of our arguments make sense and the resolution becomes impossible to weigh.
== Diversity ==
I'm showing that there are a wider array of subgenres, not to mention regional and national differences, in rap than there is in metal. This means that there's more perspectives and types of rap that one can listen to compared to metal. Literally his only response was that he hadn't heard of a lot of the other genres, or that he didn't think that there's much of a difference between the genres, but his thoughts aren't massively relevant to the validity of an argument.
Moreover, extend my argument that's saying because rap music and lyrics are easier to create at lower skill levels than metal music (by my opponent's own admission), that there's a lower skill floor for people to get involved in the rap scene than metal music. This means that more people can create rap music than metal music, meaning that there wil be more tastes being shown in the rap world, meaning that there's always going to be more diversity in rap just because more people will be able to produce music. This point is never responded to.
== Skill ==
My opponent never makes a response to how at the highest skill levels (meaning the bands who are touring across national/world-wide stages) how the skill level required to perform at that caliber is relatively even. However, a higher skill floor for the lowest denomination of metal bands isn't actually preferable for the genre. An easier time creating means that the genre is more inclusive to people who want to make music, which ties back into diversity as well. Moreover, almost 100% of the claims coming out of pro about how rap doesn't make their own beats or just steals their background music is entirely unwarranted (his own assertion that it's true without providing any evidence).
Moreover, I'm winning the ability to understand argument because he just misinterprets the argument I'm making, and I'm outweighing on two different levels. His argument was because he has a hard time understanding the single rap song he posted that rap as a genre. My argument, backed up by five viewpoints, is that people find metal as a genre hard to understand. So not only am I outweighing on scale (five independent viewpoints to my opponent's viewpoint) but on scope as well (my opponent finds that one song hard to understand, compared to five people find the metal genre overall hard to understand).
So at the end of the day from this section there's really not a whole lot of work you as a judge need to do: there's an equal level of skill from artists at the higher ends of performance, but rap is including more people to perform overall, which gives the edge to rap.
== Popularity ==
My opponent drops the analysis I give about how record sales are the main way companies track the popularity of things like music. This makes his statement that metal is rising while music sales are falling make no sense. But moreover, my stats showing that in 2011 and 2012 rap was more popular directly contradict this. He makes the claim that because the rap numbers were going down and the metal numbers were going up that today metal is more popular than rap, but he's provided no evidence to actually warrant that claim. That just leaves us with rap, even when it's declining in popularity, still being more popular than metal music.
But even if you don't like those stats, extend out the youtube argument that out of the top ten music videos, rap occupied 5 spots while metal wasn't even on the list. His only response to this was that music videos are watched for the video and not the music but a) his own concession that people use youtube to have free music ("Youtube proves that now doesn't it? You can listen to something, and not buy it.") means that people can watch music videos for the music meaning it's still a valid source, b) it's perfectly possible that people can turn on music videos for the music and just let the video play in the background. In order to make the claim my opponent is claiming he would have to somehow prove that the videos that are on the top 10 are there specfically for their video and not because of the music, which he doesn't even come close to attempting to do, but then c) even if he was right and we just need to look at the music alone here, we can look at Spotify's Most played songs(1) and see that metal isn't there either, and then if we look at Pandora's most played stations(2) that metal isn't there either, and rap is on there multiple times.
And he ignores my analysis as to why popularity is an important factor to consider. The entire purpose of creating music is for other people to listen to it. The more people who listen to your music, the better your music is/the more successful you are. The logic is really simple and straight-forward and he never responded to it. So I'm winning here easily.
== Conclusion ==
I'm easily showing how rap is more diverse than metal. I'm showing how rap takes just as much skill as metal does at the higher stages of performing, and how it's lower skill floor means that more people can participate in creating music. And I'm showing how rap is easily more popular than metal music. This means that by the categories set forth on how we determine a superior genre (that being I brought them up and my opponent never contested them) rap is winning in all three categories. Thus, I'm showing rap to be superior to metal. So vote for me ^_^
== Sources ==
(1) - https://www.spotify-yearinmusic.com...
(2) - http://www.pandora.com...
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by BLAHthedebator 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Conduct and S&G - Tie. Both had adequate conduct, spelling and grammar throughout. Arguments - Con. Con showed how diversity, skill and popularity were contributing factors in making rap superior to metal. Pro just misconstrued most of cons arguments and dropped the rest. Thus, the debate goes to con. Sources - con. Pro only provided examples of metal music with YouTube links, and well as failing to embed them, whilst con embedded YouTube links as well as sourcing statistics and question/answer examples.
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