The Instigator
BrettBoelkens
Con (against)
The Contender
RoccoLopardo
Pro (for)

Mexican American Border Wall

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/14/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 388 times Debate No: 103195
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

BrettBoelkens

Con

I believe that the Mexican-American Border Wall, also known as merely, the wall would be demonstrably inefficient at it's intended purpose, for according to Pew Research Center, roughly half of all illegal immigrants came to the United States legally via the usage of Visas and Border Crossing Cards. The problem of the wall as proposed by President Donald J. Trump could easily be circumvented by anyone who really set their mind to it. Of course, as we saw from the former escape of El Chapo, Hispanics are really good at building tunnels, and they already use them for the purpose of drugs, human trafficking and such. Hell, even some have electricity. Nevermind that, there's still the Pacific Coast and the Gulf of Mexico. And the wall has been estimated to cost anywhere from 15 billion to 25 billion(Or about half the price for free college for everyone), not including any of the land. Never mind the fact that there a million fewer Mexicans now in 2017 than compared to 2007

Now one might ask, in spite all of this, will this give native-born Americans( who are descended from immigrants anyway) be more likely to have a job? The short answer is no. Due to guest worker programs and such, 1.6 million entries by legal immigrants and 3.9 million by temporary workers from Mexico have occurred in the last 10 years. Entirely legally. This is primarily for farming jobs that Americans typically won't do. If immigrants are no longer allowed, then farmers will be in quite a pickle and will crash the market. If immigrants are allowed to continue working in the US, and the wall is built, the wall still won't stop them. They can merely stay in the country

Besides the enormous cost of said border wall and inefficiency, one must ask is this morally acceptable. E pluribus unum, out of many, one. The original unofficial motto of the U.S. before it was changed to in "God we trust" in 1956. The US was formed almost entirely by those not indigenous. It is the land of immigrants, and we should at the very least, stay in our roots. Is it moral to turn away those in need? To not help the less fortunate?

Continuing on the moral front, one can clearly see that the vast majority of the States is Christian. And as the whole border wall idea is strongly supported by one the most religious parties, the GOP. One might ask what Jesus would have thought. How about Love your neighbor as yourself (Mt. 12:31)? How about loving others(John 13:34-35)? Admittedly, not all of this country is Christian, not even I am. But one must ask if one is, what would Jesus do? Take the nativity, there was a family in need and a pregnant woman looking for someplace to have a baby, but there was no room in the inn. The story didn't"t praise those that said no. The story praised those who said this may be a little inconvenient, this may be a little awkward, but otherwise found a way to help those in need.

http://www.newsweek.com...

http://www.pewhispanic.org...

http://money.cnn.com...

1.First round is acceptance and opening arguments
2.Don't forfeit
3.No new arguments in round 4
RoccoLopardo

Pro

I personally think the wall is a little extreme, I consider myself a democrat even though I like opinions from both major political parties. I would first like to explain what I personally think of the wall, I believe it is an unnecessary amount of funds but I have to put my personal feelings aside and give facts on why it is a good idea which there are quite a bit. First, I would like to say that the Mexican-American border needs more security, it is not well enforced and there are open spots along spots of the border so I have a personal solution for that. I think what we should do is put up stationary post along the wall with an infrared view of the border that can see a human from wherever they are not including the air which some of the extra money from the wall not being constructed to drones for an aerial view of the border. This would save the money from the wall by over 10 billion dollars but it is not done yet. That is just for the camera not the installation and the access of viewing them from around 25 buildings along the border to have these camera being displayed 24/7 by 20 employees at the same time for building which each build would have 80 miles to cover the thermal cameras. Which to construct these buildings would be around 15 million dollars per building but with salaries of security and workers inside the building we will be raising the price of a 18 million dollars and with the cost of maintenance and other left out cost we will raise the price to about 20 million per building which for 25 locations will be around 500 million dollars for the buildings and in total with the cameras and buildings so far we will have spent around 632 million dollars a total of about 10 billion dollars flat. If you were wondering what the infrared cameras would do, it would be a way for the employees in the buildings to when they see a person with the infrared camera they would inform the local police station about where they are located and where they might end up my seeing how the tunnels are made, if they are underground but if they are on land then they can find where they are by using drones to get a aerial view of them to get so they can track them and get more illegal immigrants before they reach U.S. soil and can live there risking safety and the livelihood of millions of Americans. Now we can put patrol cars and vehicles in the mix, we can put around 1 car for every 4 miles or around 500 patrol cars across the entire border. And for the water areas we can have 1 patrol boat every 10 miles which would put 15 patrol boats around the southern board, putting around 515 vehicles along the border for add protection costing a little under 28 million dollars in new vehicles, in total of having around spent 660 million dollars across the whole border, significantly lowering the cost of putting up a new concrete wall. so with a little less than 10 billion dollars left over let's repair some of the border walls factoring in with putting a 50 million dollar cut from our budget, now we have around 9,950,000,000 dollars left over and we can put that money to use by helping towards repairs of our new buildings, vehicles, and cameras around the border lasting years for years to come till we run out of $10,650,000,000 budget of building this wall. That is my first part of the debate for the pros of the southern border wall. I got the price of the wall from this video https://www.youtube.com...... and the prices of the cameras from https://www.cnet.com...... and the prices of the buildings from https://www.bdcnetwork.com...... and the price of the patrol cars from Chevy's website and the price of the boats from https://pilotonline.com...... I hoped you enjoyed reading and I hope my argument convinced you to vote for me.
Debate Round No. 1
BrettBoelkens

Con

First things first, I can't read and evaluate any of your links. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, or if it's on your end, but the first link just sends me to youtube.com. No specific video, just youtube. So unless you are suggesting that cat videos and life hacks are part of your argument, I think I did something wrong. Anyway, let's digress onto argumentation. If you make the concession that the idea of a wall is a bit extreme, then we're done. I've already won. If you don"t want a wall and don"t think we should build one, I"ve already won on merits.

Along with that, you completely ignored my argument about the ethics and morals of erecting such a construction and purely focused on finance. Those arguments still remain unanswered. What is the purpose of a wall? Typically to keep dangerous people out. Closing borders is for the sake of safety, as many parts of Europe have done in response to the growing threat of radical Islamic terrorism. We aren't in any real danger from the Hispanic population. Before September 11, 2001, we had open borders with Mexico and Canada. After the attacks, we stopped having open borders in fear of further Islamic extremism. When's the last time anyone heard of ISIS or such coming from Mexico? The only thing close to that would be Hezbollah (funny enough they have their own amusement parks), had already entered the United States sometime before 2005.

What I find the most ironic about this situation, is that time after time, Trump has decried that Mexico will pay for it. Of course, that is a lie. With the 20% import tax on goods from Mexico, we are now the ones paying for it. The plan proposed by RoccoLopardo, my opponent, is a much better plan, financially and logistically speaking, though it really isn"t even a wall. But as with most moral issues, the mere fact that we can do something has no measure on if we should do something. Is it physically possible to kill someone? Yes! Should you? Probably not! Though I"m not comparing the two in moral terms, the fact that we could financially support the wall (ignoring the 20 trillion dollar national deficit) doesn"t mean that we should. Funny enough, more Mexicans are leaving than coming to the US, so a wall would help keep people in.

http://www.politifact.com...
http://www.pewhispanic.org...
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by ILikePie5 5 months ago
ILikePie5
Just pm me when you do send the challenge
Posted by ILikePie5 5 months ago
ILikePie5
I never saw the challenge, but sure, I'm willing
Posted by BrettBoelkens 6 months ago
BrettBoelkens
Hey ILikePi, do you want to debate me or not? I challenged you to one, but you never responded.
Posted by ILikePie5 6 months ago
ILikePie5
I would be willing to debate this with you BrettBoelkens...
Feel free to send me a challenge...
Preferably a 3 day time period and 10,000 character limit
Posted by BrettBoelkens 6 months ago
BrettBoelkens
Should the United States construct the US border wall as envisioned by the sitting president?
Posted by BetteMidler 6 months ago
BetteMidler
What is the motion.....?
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