The Instigator
Vmrr1002
Pro (for)
Losing
5 Points
The Contender
Intellisio
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

Mexican wall

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Intellisio
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/18/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 342 times Debate No: 105165
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (2)

 

Vmrr1002

Pro

The Mexican and United States border stretches 1,989 miles from the Gulf of a Mexico all the way the Pacific coast. When sharing a border anywhere in the world, you face problems. Security problems, economic problems, immigration and much more, these are issues any nation might face. A wall that ran the distance of the United States and Mexico border would very much benefit the nation of America. The government should address the issue of a wall because of the following reasons:

The cost of illegal immigrants doesn't stop at the amount of money it takes for the problem of illegal immigration, it goes as far as losing more than one million jobs. A report by ABC news states that the FAIR. federation for american immigration reform reports that the united states loses over 100 billion tax dollars a year for the problem of illegal immigration. To give you an idea the two world trade center in new york city is 81 storie skyscraper that will cost 2 billion dollars so you can build fifty thousand of these buildings with the amount of how much it cost the us each year. 100 billions dollars does not come from the thin air, it comes from your pocket. The taxpayers that fairly pay their taxes for living in the united states pay for the cost of having illegal immigrants enter and pay nothing in taxes.

Not only do we pay for their unknown stay but they take the jobs from our country. Jack martin the director of FAIR argues that more than half of illegal immigrants work under the table which means they pay nothing in taxes. Now the reason they are paid under the table is because it is illegal to hire illegal immigrants under the Immigration Reform and Control Act enacted in 1896. In total 8.5 million jobs are taken from us reported by www.fairus.org. {PAUSE} for example in 2016 illegal immigrants have taken 1,296,970 jobs across the state of texas and 1,887,695 jobs in CA and in the state of Pennsylvania 128,950 jobs this equals to an astounding amount of just 2,146,615 jobs meaning you can give the people of vermont a job over 3 times at once. This is a problem when over 93 million american born citizens are without a job.These are just two reasons out of many the united states should build a southern wall.
The wall will stop all the chances of someone crossing the border. The wall will be over thirty feet high and over 10 feet deep. Making it virtually impossible for illegal immigration to continue to happen. The wall will most likely be funded by tax money but not nearly as much already payed by the united states on a yearly bases. Less than 30 billion dollars is the estimated amount. So stand with me on the affirmative side and let's build this wall.

The american people elected donald trump with the promise of a southern wall does this not show that the american people know that they need better border security?
Intellisio

Con

We should not build a wall between Mexico. First of all, I am against illegal immigrants entering our country. Many jobs and economic opportunities are being wasted this way.
Yet, building a wall is not exactly the brightest solution. Honestly, who's going to pay for it? "Trump promised Mexico would pay for it. All of those promises are falling apart. Trump now admits the wall might only run 700 miles or less, and it will have openings to allow border patrol to see through to the other side. And now that Mexico has made it abundantly clear that they won"t pay for it, he"s asking the American taxpayer to pony up."
As we can see in this quote from AZCentral, it's not even clear who's going to pay for it. In the end, trying to fulfill his promises, Trump may even end up increasing taxes. We cannot take more money from citizens for a wall. This will cause the economy to collapse. Our future generations will be sitting around looking at the wall with NO money! We cannot let this happen!
It is true. Illegal immigrants are a growing problem in America. Of course it has to be resolved! The only thing I'm saying is that building a wall is ridiculous. It is a huge waste of money and time. According to AZCentral, "The wall is a giant waste of money, and there are countless ways to better invest the tens of billio
ns of dollars we would waste on a wall.Fortunately, there"s a solution. According to U.S. Customs and Border Protection, we could boost our economy by $2 billion simply by hiring 1,000 new customs officers " and we could do it for a fraction of the cost of Trump's wall."
This shows that there is a solution. The only thing is that we have to accept and acknowledge it. We can't continue believing that the wall is the solution to our problem. The wall costs a lot and frankly America isn't up to pay that much for it.

Source: https://www.azcentral.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Vmrr1002

Pro

Building a wall is one out of a few ways to stop or slow down illegal immigration. The cost of the wall will be much less than the cost of not having a wall. Also the distance of the wall is limited due to harsh conditions along the border. The fence that we have placed does not help the hard job of the border patrol agents. The economic crash will not be because of the wall, it"s more likely to happen if America has to continue to waste over 100 billion dollars.

The problem we face with illegal immigration is three things: they are taking our jobs, they"re bringing drugs and weapons to our homeland. And last but not least they are doing it illegally. There"s not many ways we can stop illegal immigration but a wall will be a huge huge help. Like I said before you can give the citizens of Vermont three jobs at once with how many jobs are given to illegal immigrants. Also according to mark potter from nbc over 700 tons of marijuana from Mexico into Arizona alone was seized in 2016. That doesn"t include what was smuggled into other states. In 2017 a 43 year old women was caught with several assault riffles and hand guns, multiple ammunition magazines, two weapon scopes and 6000 rounds of ammunition on the southern border. There are plenty more stories of incidents like this. Lastly why don"t they do it legally? There are people that have waited many years waiting to be accepted into our country and it"s not right that people can just walk across our border. They are using benefits and are actually in some cases put before actual Americans in today"s society.

The cost of a wall will be much less than 100 billion dollars. Like you said before America will end up having to pay for the bill. That"s fine because it still would be less than the amount we pay for open borders. By having less illegal immigrants come to our country we will probably see more jobs appear for actual American born citizens. And by opening more jobs for legal American citizens which includes immigrants the economy will grow and unemployment will drop. The cost of wall paid by the us has a greater effect than many think. The distance of the wall will only matter if the wall is in places with a high volume of illegal crossings. Lots of the border is not good conditions for crossing and lots of immigrants actually go through the same ways of others. So we need to build a wall that stops them from crossing those places that they can cross.

You told us that we can solve the problem by adding more agents to the border. That"s true and president Donald Trump has added more agents to the border. A big problem for the agents is that the border is to big for them to secure and by adding more isn"t going to solve the problem. It may help but not help like a wall could help. Also the fence along the border is horrible. We continue wasting money on fences that are continuesly cut through and plowed down. A fence that is supposed to help the agents at the border does nothing in reality.

What has also been mentioned is the fact that you said there would be an economic crash and leave our generation sitting with a wall and no money. That"s false that"s just a way to scare people into not liking the wall even more. Wasting 100 billion dollars a year will bankrupt the United States before building a wall would. Building a wall would create more jobs while under construction and after construction. Wether it"s to keep the wall clean or just beacuase there are less illegal immigration. Making more jobs means a better economy and better life for all Americans. You also said that taxes could be raised for the wall that"s simply wrong. We use the money, the 100 billion dollars to build the wall and either way wouldn"t we rather see the money we earn keep us safe rather than go to programs that do not work or even see our hard earned money go towards payouts for large banks. We cannot continue to let this problem be unsolved. We need to elect more people who want to keep us and the next generation safe. Americans will gain so much from a wall. It"s the only way to stop crime, drugs and weapons caused and brought by illegal immigrants. They"re are great illegal immigrants in our country but what would be even better if we can say legal immigrants. A wall will keep Americans safe and will become an icon of strength.
Intellisio

Con

The wall is not an icon of strength. In fact, it appears to look as a symbol of weakness. We are America. Why do we need a wall in order to protect us from illegal immigrants arriving into our country?
Also, we are not made of money. Other countries may look at our giant wall. What conclusion would they come to? Oh look, America's doing great. Let's trade with them. They propose the offer. We are still trying to get back on our feet after spending so much money. We refuse. Country gets angry. Oh look, there comes another war! That is a failure.
I would also like to point out that a wall isn't going to block ALL illegal immigrants! There is something called bribery and it serves to prove as a very useful tool when people want to get something. Another point you are completely overlooking is that we are wasting a lot of money by building a wall!!!
My opponent said that building a wall is cheaper than not building a wall. First of all, let's say we build a wall. It's built. There are less illegal immigrants who enter our country! Yay, that's great. Now, who's going to pay all the money that goes into maintaining such an enormous structure? We do not need the Berlin Wall happening all over again except this time in America.
We are a smart country. There are many strategies and ideas we could come up with. We could if we weren't so headstrong and focused on building a wall. This collapse any room for thinking and innovative solutions. Second, who's building it? In order to build a wall, a LOT of people will be needed. Let's be honest here. People are working to build a wall. There will be injuries and harm. How much are we willing to risk to build a wall?
The wall is not necessary.

Sources: http://www.bbc.com...
https://www.forbes.com...
Debate Round No. 2
Vmrr1002

Pro

in conclusion. due to the history of debate I will end my point with this; I respect my opponents opinion and the opinion of anyone who has read this debate. but I cannot end without pointing out that my opponent has yet to give a substitute to the wall we can all agree the illegal immigration problem this country has is getting out of control. my opponent seems to not realize that by building a wall on the southern border we can prevent lots of the problems we have. now my opponent is right on one thing. they are right about the illegals becoming sneaky and finding other ways in, weather its bribery or something else. but we will have to come down harder than we ever have in the past. what my opponent also continues to tell us about is the money part of the wall. and I cant help but disagree with them. they are painting a picture of a poor America because they built a wall. false. the wall will create jobs and help our economy. the people that keep the wall strong are people that may not have had a job before. and now do. all the people that build the wall will contribute to the economy. while building a structure to keep us safe. the berlin wall was built with the intent of hatred. the southern wall will be built with the intent of keeping a country safe, like the one in Jerusalem. the construction of the wall gives opportunities to people (referring to the prototypes being built) and creates a environment of competition bringing forth the best and cheapest wall. and like I said the united states will pay for the wall. we spend more than 100 billion dollars on open borders and building and keeping the wall sturdy will be less than 100 billion a year. saving us more money towards something better like education or for the vets. a great man once said "A nation that cannot control its borders is not a nation." Ronald Reagan was correct because look at the troubles we are having and in the future we are just going to get worse. another great man by the name of Thomas Jefferson said "A country with no Border is not a country." these two men talked about the same problem decades apart because they knew it would be a problem for America. what I cant help but think is now we have a president that shows the quality of both Thomas Jefferson and Ronald Reagan and we should use this administration that wants to put America first and build a wall. A wall that protects us and our kids, a wall that creates jobs, a wall saying that " we will not bow to anyone, because we are America and we will protect our citizens before anyone else" the wall is not an attack on Mexico or a race and or religion its a wall that keeps all of Americas races and religions safe from drugs and crime that crosses the border. so that we can continue to grow and mesh together. as one safe nation. so please understand I am not against Mexicans or any certain race but I am against illegal immigration so stand with me and vote yes on this debate.
Intellisio

Con

First, I would like to point out that we do need to protect our country. Our country's safety comes first. Yet, we must acknowledge the fact that a wall will and may lead to absolute demise. I already suggested we place more officials on the border. Yet, Pro seems to overlook that concept. There are many other ideas out in the world. We need to explore and find our best option. For example, we could put a canal between us and Mexico. According to studies, that would cost less. I would like to thank my opponent for this respectful and courteous debate. I had a great time debating with you.. I fully respect your views, but my opinion has not wavered at all. Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2 1 month ago
BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2
I guess everyone wants terrorists to kill us all, so there wouldn't be a debate.org.
You guys are dumb!!!
Posted by ILikePie5 1 month ago
ILikePie5
@Nd2400

Around? How? There"s something called the Coast Guard. Under? Israel, along with American help developed technology to prevent underground tunnels.

The problem isn"t just illegal immigration, it"s the drugs and crime as well. About half of the illegals come from the Southern border, even if we prevent half, it"s stops a good deal of deaths in America. Do you really value money over lives? And if the wall doesn"t work, what"s your counter plan?
Posted by ILikePie5 1 month ago
ILikePie5
@theseus, I would like your source on the Huns comment, because as far as I know the wall was just simply left with not enough men or on the verge of collapse when the Mongols invaded after the Song Dynasty.
Posted by ptosistheseus 2 months ago
ptosistheseus
How did the Huns get past the Great Wall of China? They bribed their way in! Most drugs go through the port of entry.

A lot of undocumented immigrants are already here. Cartels can outsmart checkpoints.

Terrorists aren"t undocumented - most terrorists active in the United States are homegrown. Since 9/11, over 80 percent of individuals who were charged with or died while engaging in jihad-related terrorist activities in this country have been U.S. citizens or permanent residents.

And lastlyTrump's immigrant deportations could clog up courts for years.
Posted by Nd2400 2 months ago
Nd2400
The wall isn't the answer period. Illegal will still get over the wall, or under it, around it, or just straight though it. So it will do nothing but wast tax payers money. Oh yeah, it not just Mexican getting in here illegals. They are the Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, latin American, middle eastern, and many more. So again your wall doesn't help not one tiny bit.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by jc1996 1 month ago
jc1996
Vmrr1002IntellisioTied
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Total points awarded:25 
Reasons for voting decision: Donald Trump's border wall on Mexico is a threat and could end repeating what happened in the years of the Berlin Wall. Two walls, one similarity: symbol of oppression. That's why Con prevailed over it because he has strong arguments to disprove Pro's weak and useless arguments.
Vote Placed by zmikecuber 2 months ago
zmikecuber
Vmrr1002IntellisioTied
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Total points awarded:33 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro claimed sources but did not supply links to them. So sources go to Con since he used sources and they were at least somewhat reliable. S/G to Con because Pro did not capitalize the first words of each sentence, which strikes me as incredibly lazy. He could be winning the debate right now if he had done so. I give arguments to Pro, since he presented a compelling argument and gave reasons to build a border wall with Mexico. Con didn't address this argument at first, and started blaming Trump for not getting Mexico to pay for the wall, and then claimed something about raising taxes and causing a financial crash of the US, which seems silly and wasn't sourced. Pro also pointed out that the wall would essentially pay for itself. Ultimately, Con didn't present any good arguments for why we shouldn't have the wall. If he had presented arguments as to the ineffectiveness of the wall, he might have won, but he didn't. Also, he presented a non-mutually exclusive alternative solution.