The Instigator
Placebo
Pro (for)
Losing
12 Points
The Contender
chevy10294
Con (against)
Winning
14 Points

Michael Schumacher was an unethical cheater in Formula One.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/8/2008 Category: Sports
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,821 times Debate No: 4371
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (6)

 

Placebo

Pro

Michael Schumacher, 7 time Formula One world champion, was an unethical cheater who took any extreme measure to win titles. When he hit the wall at the 1994 Australian Grand Prix, he proceed to purposely hit his rival, Damon Hill, in order to take the championship. As you can see in the following video, after hitting the wall Schumacher's suspension was damaged - meaning he must pull off to the side of the track and retire. Yet he continues to block Damon Hill and then squeeze him off the track, hitting him, and thereby damaging Hill's race car and forcing him to retire. Schumacher then wins the world title.

In 1997 at the European Grand Prix, Schumacher again had the opportunity to take out a rival for the championship and tried. Jacques Villeneuve was 1 point behind Schumacher, who was about to be passed, and upon Villeneuve passing Schumacher tried to hit him.

These two examples show how Michael Schumacher will unethically try to destroy his rivals cars instead of beating them on the race track. The man gets so much praise for being the greatest driver of F1, yet he makes decisions that should mark him as the worst and then lies about them.

Let me bring up one last example. During the 2006 Monaco Grand Prix, Schumacher again attempted to unethically take pole position by blocking the track while the 2005/2006 world champion - Fernando Alonso - was about to take pole position. By blocking the narrow track, Schumacher secured his pole position by bringing out a yellow flag and effectively forcing Fernando Alonso to slow down. The FIA punished him and many accused him of cheating. He still finished 5th,when he should have been disqualified.

I believe that these three incidents prove that Michael Schumacher was a cheater who does not deserve to hold 7 F1 world championships. If my opponent would like to expand the debate to team orders and Ferrari we can do so as well, because they further gave Schumacher unfair advantages. I encourage the voters to watch the videos and hear my arguments thoroughly before my pro-Schumacher debater tries to convince you he was the perfect angel.
chevy10294

Con

Hello Placebo

Thank you for starting this debate, and this issue took great concern to me. By the way, I am a Ferrari fan as well as Schumi fan. I must ask if you like McLean and/or Lewis Hamilton.

The first video you provide is very interesting. In the previous corner, Damon Hill had run off the track, making his car slower for through the next corner. Then came Michael Schumacher around the corner not expecting to see Damon Hill in the main line even though he was full. Schumi clearly tries going around him on both sides and nearly does it, but Hill runs into him in the corner. You can tell, that when it is in the in car camera for Michael's car and you see him swerve one way, then another, and clearly has the bottom line. After, Hill comes flying across the screen and Schumi locks up the tires. You can tell he locks up the tires 40 seconds into the video when his tires stop moving. Also, the front of Hill's car came across the front of Schumi, so has is that his fault when he never touched him?

"Upon Villeneuve passing Schumacher tried to hit him"

How do you know that he was trying to hit him? You can not tell clearly from the video whose fault it was, if it was anyone's. Also, Schumacher got the worst of it, so what does the video matter? From watching the video, I get the feeling that Villenuve and Schumacher tried to go for the same line, but both of them couldn't have had it at once, so someone was going to hit someone.

Now for the Monaco incident. To let the readers know that the 3rd video was during qualifying and Schumacher was on provisional pole. As he went around a tight corner, his car slowed and went to a stop. How do we know that the car really didn't stall are skip gears? The car has the chance to break down like that. You say the FIA accused him of cheating. I would like to see those papers.

Bumping and crashing is just apart of racing. In NASCAR it is called give and take. When to guys take, there'll be a crash. Crashed will happen and most of them are on accident. No driver will want to risk their car and lose money just to take a car out.
Debate Round No. 1
Placebo

Pro

Hi Chevy, thanks for taking the challenge and yes I am a Mclaren fan and have been for years. However, I was primarily a Montoya fan before he left to nascar. I will now address your statements.
You said: << In the previous corner, Damon Hill had run off the track, making his car slower for through the next corner.>>
It was actually Schumacher who ran off the track the previous corner and hit the wall. He is in the Benetton (white/blue/green car) and Damon Hill is in the Williams (blue and white car). If you watch the video again, you can see that Schumacher missed the apex and hit the wall, thereby damaging his right front suspension.
You said: << Then came Michael Schumacher around the corner not expecting to see Damon Hill in the main line even though he was full. Schumi clearly tries going around him on both sides and nearly does it, but Hill runs into him in the corner.>>
Again, you have both cars mixed up here. Schumacher retained the lead after hitting the wall but Hill tried to pass him first on the outside, and then on the inside after Schumacher moved to block him. Instead of letting Hill pass since he had a damaged suspension, which means that cars are required to either pit or let non-damaged cars by, Schumacher chose to run into Hill as he tried to pass on the corner.
You said: << After, Hill comes flying across the screen and Schumi locks up the tires. You can tell he locks up the tires 40 seconds into the video when his tires stop moving. Also, the front of Hill's car came across the front of Schumi, so has is that his fault when he never touched him?>>
Yet again you have the two drivers confused here. The car locking up you see at 40 seconds is indeed Damon Hill. I am going to show you a video with commentary so that you can follow the incident clearly.
Schumacher vs. Villeneuve
You said: << How do you know that he was trying to hit him? You can not tell clearly from the video whose fault it was, if it was anyone's. Also, Schumacher got the worst of it, so what does the video matter? From watching the video, I get the feeling that Villenuve and Schumacher tried to go for the same line, but both of them couldn't have had it at once, so someone was going to hit someone.>>
It is the exact same move he pulled against Damon Hill above in the exact same circumstance – he was about to be passed which would have meant he would lose the championship. After the race, "Schumacher was subsequently summoned to a disciplinary hearing by the FIA and on November 11, 1997 it was announced that Schumacher would be disqualified from the 1997 World Championship." http://en.wikipedia.org...
When a driver is being passed on the inside, he cannot turn into the inside, if he wishes to hold the position he must remain on the outside. In racing school they will teach you this, and if Schumacher wanted to keep Villeneuve behind, he should have blocked the inside of the turn before running wide.
You said: << Now for the Monaco incident. As he went around a tight corner, his car slowed and went to a stop. How do we know that the car really didn't stall are skip gears? The car has the chance to break down like that. You say the FIA accused him of cheating. I would like to see those papers.
>>
The turn is named La Rascasse and it is the turn before pit in. Formula One cars have extremely nice turn ratios, and they even extend the wheel turning radius for Monaco so they can make it around the Hotel hairpin. The car didn't break down, he did run wide but instead of keeping it turning he let it roll straight to block the track deliberately. This is a strictly on board video, you can see here that at La Rascasse he goes into the corner, begins to turn, and then stops turning on purpose. He turns right, he then turns left, and then turns his wheels right again. The car remains running while nicely blocking the track until he shuts it off.
Therefore, the car could not have possibly stalled and if you listen you can tell he didn't skip gears, and nor did it break down. The stewards did accuse him of deliberately impeding Alonso by giving him a grid penalty.
"In the end, Schumacher's actions were deemed "deliberate" and was demoted to the back of the grid as punishment for his actions" http://en.wikipedia.org...
Lastly you said, <>
Formula One and NASCAR cannot be compared. The designs of F1 cars demand that driver's race clean because they are extremely fast and delicate machines. Stock cars are big hunks of metal and can stand bumping, but F1 cars damage suspensions or flip easily with rubber-to-rubber contact. Furthermore, if you hit any other section of the car you are likely to damage tires, aerodynamics, hydraulics or the gear box.
Unlike NASCAR, F1 drivers aren't paid for each race finish position. Their salary does however rise if they win the championship. For Schumacher, he chose to risk his race to win the championship. He succeeded in 1994 against Hill even though he retired from the race. So yes, Schumacher is willing to break driver etiquette to cheat and risk the car for the championship. Yet even though he is a blatant cheater, he keeps getting praise from tifosi and numerous racing fans across the world. I feel however, that these videos prove that Schumacher has broken the etiquette and sporting regulations at least three times to benefit his position in the sport.
chevy10294

Con

chevy10294 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Placebo

Pro

Since my opponent failed to post an argument, I am going to re-post my Round 2 argument with the proper spaced format for the pleasure of the viewers.

You said: << In the previous corner, Damon Hill had run off the track, making his car slower for through the next corner.>>

It was actually Schumacher who ran off the track the previous corner and hit the wall. He is in the Benetton (white/blue/green car) and Damon Hill is in the Williams (blue and white car). If you watch the video again, you can see that Schumacher missed the apex and hit the wall, thereby damaging his right front suspension.

You said: << Then came Michael Schumacher around the corner not expecting to see Damon Hill in the main line even though he was full. Schumi clearly tries going around him on both sides and nearly does it, but Hill runs into him in the corner.>>

Again, you have both cars mixed up here. Schumacher retained the lead after hitting the wall but Hill tried to pass him first on the outside, and then on the inside after Schumacher moved to block him. Instead of letting Hill pass since he had a damaged suspension, which means that cars are required to either pit or let non-damaged cars by, Schumacher chose to run into Hill as he tried to pass on the corner.

You said: << After, Hill comes flying across the screen and Schumi locks up the tires. You can tell he locks up the tires 40 seconds into the video when his tires stop moving. Also, the front of Hill's car came across the front of Schumi, so has is that his fault when he never touched him?>>

Yet again you have the two drivers confused here. The car locking up you see at 40 seconds is indeed Damon Hill. I am going to show you a video with commentary so that you can follow the incident clearly. http://www.youtube.com......

Schumacher vs. Villeneuve

You said: << How do you know that he was trying to hit him? You can not tell clearly from the video whose fault it was, if it was anyone's. Also, Schumacher got the worst of it, so what does the video matter? From watching the video, I get the feeling that Villenuve and Schumacher tried to go for the same line, but both of them couldn't have had it at once, so someone was going to hit someone.>>

It is the exact same move he pulled against Damon Hill above in the exact same circumstance – he was about to be passed which would have meant he would lose the championship. After the race, "Schumacher was subsequently summoned to a disciplinary hearing by the FIA and on November 11, 1997 it was announced that Schumacher would be disqualified from the 1997 World Championship." http://en.wikipedia.org...... When a driver is being passed on the inside, he cannot turn into the inside, if he wishes to hold the position he must remain on the outside. In racing school they will teach you this, and if Schumacher wanted to keep Villeneuve behind, he should have blocked the inside of the turn before running wide.

Monaco

You said: << Now for the Monaco incident. As he went around a tight corner, his car slowed and went to a stop. How do we know that the car really didn't stall are skip gears? The car has the chance to break down like that. You say the FIA accused him of cheating. I would like to see those papers.>>

The turn is named La Rascasse and it is the turn before pit in. Formula One cars have extremely nice turn ratios, and they even extend the wheel turning radius for Monaco so they can make it around the Hotel hairpin. The car didn't break down, he did run wide but instead of keeping it turning he let it roll straight to block the track deliberately. This is a strictly on board video, http://www.youtube.com...... you can see here that at La Rascasse he goes into the corner, begins to turn, and then stops turning on purpose. He turns right, he then turns left, and then turns his wheels right again. The car remains running while nicely blocking the track until he shuts it off.

Therefore, the car could not have possibly stalled and if you listen you can tell he didn't skip gears, and nor did it break down. The stewards did accuse him of deliberately impeding Alonso by giving him a grid penalty.
"In the end, Schumacher's actions were deemed "deliberate" and was demoted to the back of the grid as punishment for his actions" http://en.wikipedia.org......

Lastly you said, <>

Formula One and NASCAR cannot be compared. The designs of F1 cars demand that driver's race clean because they are extremely fast and delicate machines. Stock cars are big hunks of metal and can stand bumping, but F1 cars damage suspensions or flip easily with rubber-to-rubber contact. Furthermore, if you hit any other section of the car you are likely to damage tires, aerodynamics, hydraulics or the gear box.

Unlike NASCAR, F1 drivers aren't paid for each race finish position. Their salary does however rise if they win the championship. For Schumacher, he chose to risk his race to win the championship. He succeeded in 1994 against Hill even though he retired from the race. So yes, Schumacher is willing to break driver etiquette to cheat and risk the car for the championship. Yet even though he is a blatant cheater, he keeps getting praise from tifosi and numerous racing fans across the world. I feel however, that these videos prove that Schumacher has broken the etiquette and sporting regulations at least three times to benefit his position in the sport.
chevy10294

Con

chevy10294 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Protagoras 8 years ago
Protagoras
Barack Obama supporter vs. McCain supporter...

Who will win!?
Posted by chevy10294 8 years ago
chevy10294
Sorry i just didn't have time with Father's day and end of school year. Thought i had a little more time too.
Posted by Placebo 8 years ago
Placebo
Sorry about not putting in spaces, I copied and pasted it from a word document which didn't translate spaces for some reason.
Posted by brian_eggleston 8 years ago
brian_eggleston
I'd love to have a debate on Formula 1, but, unfortunately, I agree with your every word! Good luck!
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by Kirke32 7 years ago
Kirke32
Placebochevy10294Tied
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Vote Placed by chevy10294 8 years ago
chevy10294
Placebochevy10294Tied
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Vote Placed by mynameisjonas 8 years ago
mynameisjonas
Placebochevy10294Tied
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Vote Placed by Derek.Gunn 8 years ago
Derek.Gunn
Placebochevy10294Tied
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Vote Placed by Protagoras 8 years ago
Protagoras
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Vote Placed by Placebo 8 years ago
Placebo
Placebochevy10294Tied
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