The Instigator
imabench
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Carson_KS
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Michigan vs Ohio State is the best rivalry in college football

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/13/2015 Category: Sports
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 680 times Debate No: 80644
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (0)

 

imabench

Pro

As pro I will argue that the Michigan vs Ohio State rivalry is the best rivalry in college football. Con will select a DIFFERENT rivalry and argue that THEIR choice is the best rivalry in college football.

3 rounds, 4000 characters a round, 24 hours between rounds.



Arguments:

1) The length of the rivalry spans over a century

Michigan and Ohio State first played each other in 1897, before Teddy Roosevelt was ever elected president. Other rivalries like UCLA vs USC and UM vs FSU didnt first start until 1927 and 1951 respectively

https://en.wikipedia.org...

The age of the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry stands as a testament for why it is the best rivalry in college football, since few other rivalries can match the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry in terms of age and historic qualities.



2) Annual matchup

This rivalry is played annually on account of how both the Wolverines and the Buckeyes are in the same conference (The Big 10). Many other rivalries though are NOT annual events, such as Michigan-Notre Dame, or Miami-UF. Since the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry takes place every year, that gives the rivalry a bigger presence over college football than rivalries that take place only sporadically, since the annual face-off has dramatic implications for who plays in or wins the Big 10 conference championship, and even the Rose Bowl itself, since the winner of the Big 10 conference championship is automatically considered to get a spot in the Rose Bowl game.

https://en.wikipedia.org...



3) Caliber of both teams

Michigan and Ohio State are two of the most prestigious football programs in all of college football, which cannot even be disputed. Michigan has the most wins of any college program and has the second highest all time-winning percentage, with Ohio State having the 6th most all time wins and 3rd in all time winning percentage right behind Michigan State. Few other rivalries can match the win-percentages of both teams in the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Michigan and Ohio State have also won 19 championships combined, and have appeared in 88 bowl games combined, which only further exemplifies just how prestigious these powerhouse football programs are, and how important the rivalry between both schools are both for the schools themselves, and the rest of college football.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Michigan and Ohio State also have a combined 10 Heisman winners, 157 All-American trophy winning athletes, and 79 combined conference titles under their belts, which no other rivalry in college football can match:

https://en.wikipedia.org...



Conclusion: The extensive history of kicking a** and taking names that both Michigan and Ohio State have, combined with the age of the rivalry and the implications that the annual rivalry has on the rest of college football itself, are the pillars that support the only logical concl
Carson_KS

Con

I accept your topic. I think that Alabama and Auburn is the best rivalry in college football.

The Alabama and Auburn football rivalry is like no other. Call it a phenomenon. Freak of nature. One thing that Alabamians know is that it is intense, and it is serious. Those who take it lightly or mock it do so at their own risk. Alabama resident and Inquisitr writer Terri LaPoint recently wrote about the maltreatment some have received for infringing on the reverential alliances among Alabama and Auburn fans.
The electric atmosphere leading up to and following yesterday"s Iron Bowl is the stuff that legends are made of. Alabama"s Birmingham metro area was saturated with fans in their colors"Alabama"s red and white and Auburn"s blue and orange. Team flags were flying, vehicles decorated, and the city was abuzz with shoptalk"the football kind.
For someone with no clue about the Alabama and Auburn football rivalry, perhaps a tourist or someone simply passing through, need not be told. The pride of nearly all of Alabama residents hung in the balance awaiting the game.
Last night, the college football season culminated with a record-setting game at Tuscaloosa"s Bryant-Denny Stadium. The final score: Alabama 55 Auburn 44.
The celebratory, carnival-like atmosphere continued through the night all across the state, and even in rural areas cheering, shouting, and blowing horns peppered the air.
ESPN reported yesterday that the "Iron Bowl wins coaches" poll for college football"s fiercest rivalry."
The history of the Iron Bowl isn"t well-known these days. However, Rolling Stone calls the Iron Bowl "the archetypal rivalry setups in college football, an agricultural institution versus a prestigious university, a farm college versus a society school." It goes on to tell about last year"s Iron Bowl game with its "inherent improbabilities" that shocked everyone.
The Rolling Stone calls Alabama Coach Nick Saban, "the greatest coach in twenty-first-century college football, and maybe the greatest coach who ever lived." And, he has a paycheck to match. The Inquisitr reported that Nick Saban is the highest-paid football coach in college football.
Here is a video that portrays the rivalry between coworkers, it"s called "Iron Bowl Office Feud." When asked about his inspiration for the video, its producer Josh Snead of SEC Shorts told Saturday Down South, "Office arguments over the Iron Bowl are usually pretty tame, but we think they all secretly wish they could grab a crowbar. I"m a Bama fan, and Robert is an Auburn fan, so we tried to make a video that captures the pure hatred we have for each other this week."
For those who wish to get a glimpse of the dark, gritty underworld of the Alabama and Auburn rivalry, look no further than the Paul Finebaum Show. It is a forum for callers to vent vitriol and hurl deep-seated hatred for the two teams, which sometimes involves expletives. To his credit, Mr. Finebaum consistently and unceremoniously takes the criticism and meltdowns with a poise.
For an in-depth look at the two teams, there is the documentary "Roll Tide/War Eagle" in which Finebaum appears. The Alabama and Auburn rivalry is one that is perhaps the most intense in the world of college football, and it is certainly like no other.
http://www.inquisitr.com...

Nasty From the Start
Auburn and Alabama first met on Feb. 22, 1893, in Birmingham, Alabama.
Auburn won 32-22. That much could be agreed upon.
But the schools ended up getting into a spat"the first of many to come"over whether the game should be counted toward the 1892 season or the 1893 season. The nastiness continued from there, eventually leading to the temporary suspension in the series after the schools" 1907 meeting, which ended in a 6-6 tie.
Auburn and Alabama didn"t meet again until 1948. And it literally took an act of the state government to make that happen.

With that, I open my opponent to further questions and arguments
Debate Round No. 1
imabench

Pro

1) History of both rivalries

(This is the more minor argument, the major argument is in the next point)

Alabama and Auburn have played 79 times, with Alabama leading the series 43-35-1, winning about 54% of the time
https://en.wikipedia.org...

Michigan and Ohio State on the other hand have met 111 times, with Michigan leading the series 58-48-6, winning about 52% of the time
https://en.wikipedia.org...

So while both rivalries are nearly statistically equivalent in terms of evenness of the rivalry, meaning both sides in both rivalries win fairly often, Michigan and Ohio State have played each other more than 30+ times than Alabama and Auburn have (30% more games between each other if you do the math). This gives the Michigan and Ohio State rivalry an edge in terms of history of the rivalry over the Alabama-Auburn rivalry simply because Ohio State and Michigan have played each other more often than Alabama and Auburn have, and by a substantial amount as well.



2) Caliber of both teams in both rivalries

(Main argument)

Since both rivalries are historical and now take place annually, the main focus of the debate is now focused on just how good each team in the rivalries are. When we examine the statistics, you can see that there is a substantial gap between the caliber of Ohio State and Michigan, and that of Alabama and Auburn (particularly Auburn)

Alabama and Auburn rank 7th and 19th in terms of overall wins, and rank 5th and 13th in terms of winning percentage (not counting Div II and III schools) in the link below

Michigan and Alabama on the other hand rank 1st and 6th in terms of wins, and rank 2nd and 3rd in terms of all time winning percentage

https://en.wikipedia.org...

So while Alabama is arguably of equal caliber of the football programs of Ohio State and Michigan, Auburn simply is not, and the statistics of the programs back this up. Michigan and Ohio State overall have a bigger history of being better football programs than Alabama and Auburn do.

As mentioned before, Michigan and Ohio State have combined to win 19 national championships, have 10 combined Heisman winners, 157 combined All Americans, and 79 conference championships between both schools.

Alabama and Auburn on the other hand have combined to win only 17 national championships (only 2 from Auburn), have just 4 combined Heisman winners, 125 All Americans, and just 40 conference championships between both schools (half the total of Michigan+Ohio State)

https://en.wikipedia.org...
https://en.wikipedia.org...

So while Alabama and Auburn are two very respectable programs by themselves and compared to most other schools, they simply do not compare to the combined might of Michigan and Ohio State, which outranks the Alabama-Auburn rivalry in terms of how historically great these programs have been int he past nearly across the board by wide margins.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
Carson_KS

Con

First Argument:

The reason that they have only played 79 times is because the Auburn president Dr. Ralph B. Draughon and Alabama president Dr. John Gallalee decided to start resuming play after 41 years of not playing each other! 41 years! If they did play in those years, add 41 more games to the number right now and that would be 120 which is 9 games more than the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry. Which means that it has lasted longer.

Second Arguments (Attacking Opponents Arguments):
First, I would like to ask, what does Heisman Trophy winners have to do with how good rivalries are? It doesn't.
Next, I would like to point out that opponent basically ran the same arguments. That proves that he ran out of evidence to support his claim
Last, my opponent used Wikipedia as a resource. Wikipedia is a site where anyone can change anything. ALL of his arguments used Wiki. That's not a valid source. So if it's not a valid source, then it is not valid evidence.
Debate Round No. 2
imabench

Pro

1) Number of games played

"If they did play in those years, add 41 more games to the number right now and that would be 120 which is 9 games more than the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry"

But they didnt, so you cant count them as if they actually were played.... Michigan-Ohio State have played substantially more games than Alabama-Auburn over roughly the same time span, which means that the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry is better than the Alabama-Auburn rivalry since Michigan and Ohio State have played against each other more often, and by a hefty amount as well.



2) Skill of both programs

"what does Heisman Trophy winners have to do with how good rivalries are?"

It is one of many idifferent measurements I used to show that players from Michigan and Ohio State have overall been better than players from Alabama and Auburn, meaning that the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry is better than the Alabama-Auburn rivalry since there is a higher level of play between Michigan and Ohio State athletes than Alabama and Auburn



"he ran out of evidence to support his claim"

It was all I needed to prove that im right and youre wrong. In your round 2 alone you provided no new evidence to support your side of the argument as well and instead went on the defensive.



3) Wikipedia

"my opponent used Wikipedia as a resource"

Wikipedia is very reliable as a resource when it comes to listing simple statistics. Its only when you get into very complicated concepts of philosophy and psychology where wikipedia becomes horribly unreliable.

http://www.debate.org...

All claims that I have made so far can be also substantiated through sources other than wikipedia as well, meaning all of my statistics are valid:

http://buckeyefansonly.com...
http://bentley.umich.edu...
http://www.mgoblue.com...
http://www.sports-reference.com...
http://www.sports-reference.com...
http://www.maizenbrew.com...

Not only that, you've only used one source in the entire debate, whereas I've used about a dozen prior to this around alone.



Conclusion:

Michigan-Ohio State is a better rivalry than Alabama-Auburn because

1 - Michigan and Ohio State have overall had better players than Alabama and Auburn,
2 - Michigan and Ohio State have won their conference and the national title more often than Alabama and Auburn,
3 - Michigan and Ohio State both have higher win ratios and a higher number of wins overall than both Alabama and Auburn,
4 - Michigan and Ohio State have met for more often than Alabama and Auburn have over the same time period

Vote Pro




Carson_KS

Con

Thanks for everybody's time and thanks to my opponent for this debate. Now lets get into this round.

1.) Supporting My Arguments

a. Fans
As you should know, Auburn is is Alabama. So that means the streets in every town are maroon and white, or blue and orange. If you don't like either team, or take the series lightly or mock it, then you are in trouble. Before every match-up, flags fly, vehicles are decked out in Alabama or Auburn color, and the city is abuzz with football talk. After the game this year (and probably every year) the celebratory, carnival-like atmosphere continued through the night all across the state, and even in rural areas cheering, shouting, and blowing horns peppered the air. The two teams fans feel absolute hatred towards each other.

b. Good Rivalry
ESPN reported yesterday that the "Iron Bowl wins coaches" poll for college football"s fiercest rivalry."
The history of the Iron Bowl isn"t well-known these days. However, Rolling Stone calls the Iron Bowl "the archetypal rivalry setups in college football, an agricultural institution versus a prestigious university, a farm college versus a society school." These two schools didn't meet up for 41 years due to a fight. A game played in 1893 was debated for whether it should count for the 1892-93 season or the 1893-94 season. The teams didn't start playing each other until the presidents of both schools "made up", it also took the STATE GOVERNMENT! Also almost all the games played are pretty darn close. Maybe a few blow outs here and there, but other than that it is close every year.

c.Nasty From the Start
Auburn and Alabama first met on Feb. 22, 1893, in Birmingham, Alabama.
Auburn won 32-22. That much could be agreed upon.
But the schools ended up getting into a spat"the first of many to come"over whether the game should be counted toward the 1892 season or the 1893 season. The nastiness continued from there, eventually leading to the temporary suspension in the series after the schools" 1907 meeting, which ended in a 6-6 tie.
Auburn and Alabama didn"t meet again until 1948.

With that, I urge you to vote for Con!
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by inferno 1 year ago
inferno
The best college football rivalry is Alabama and Auburn. Period.
Posted by Carson_KS 1 year ago
Carson_KS
http://collegefootball.about.com...

That is the cite for the evidence (Nasty for the Start); there wasn't enough room in my speech.
Posted by imabench 1 year ago
imabench
Then accept :P
Posted by YYW 1 year ago
YYW
no no no...

The best rivalry of all time is Notre Dame and U Mich
Posted by imabench 1 year ago
imabench
All-time
Posted by birdlandmemories 1 year ago
birdlandmemories
Do you mean currently or all time? All time I agree, currently I'd argue the Iron Bowl is better.
Posted by imabench 1 year ago
imabench
btw I voted in favor of the trade between you and IvsT in the fantasy football league we're in. If you could do the same for the trade between me and Airmax that would be great: http://games.espn.go.com...
Posted by imabench 1 year ago
imabench
<333

nac
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
For once I can actually agree with you.
No votes have been placed for this debate.