The Instigator
deever
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Badtothebone
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Mickey Mantle is better than Ty Cobb

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/16/2013 Category: Sports
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,153 times Debate No: 33460
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

deever

Pro

Both Ty Cobb and Mickey Mantle arer major league baseball players. Both player's primary postion was center field. Cobb is generally reagrded as a better player. I disagree. I feel that Mickey Mantle is a better player and I will attempt to prove that in this debate.
Badtothebone

Con

i hate baseball
Debate Round No. 1
deever

Pro

Okay, thank you for accepting this debate.
Championships:
Mickey Mantle led his team to 7 World Series Victories and 10 World Series Appearances. Cobb played in "only" 3 World Series and lost all of them! Mickey Mantle also set World Series records of 18 home runs, 42 runs and 40 runs batted in. Mantle was an amazing postseason player.

Defense and Leadership:
Cobb was a large destructive force on his team. Among players who hurt their team with their personality the most, Cobb is at the top with Dick Allen and Rogers Hornsby. Mickey Mantle was a well liked player on the Yankees. Although he cannot really be described as a team leader, he did not hurt his team like Cobb did and raised morale. Now, for defense, Cobb was a terrible defensive center fielder. Cobb basically just stood in center field and he hurt his team a lot by costing them a lot of runs. Mantle isn't a well known defensive great. Although Mantle was not as a good defensive player as Joe Dimaggio, Willie Mays and Roberto Clemente, he had a more than adaquete defense, certainly much better than Cobb.
Badtothebone

Con

ty cobb looks better than mickey mantle, your argument is invalid
Debate Round No. 2
deever

Pro

All right, time for round 2.
First off, I want to say that I do not feel that my argument is invalid. My opponent did absolutely nothing to disprove how much more valuable to his team Mickey Mantle was than Ty Cobb. Now for my main agruments.

Looks (I can't believe I'm writing this):
When neither of the players are regarded as extemely handsome or extremely ugly, usually the difference in looks is not that much. Nevertheless, over his career, Mantle was portrayed as a young, youthful baseball player with boyish charm. I believe that Mantle looks better than Cobb(who has a rather odd face).

Slugging:
Slugging Percentage is a percenatge that is calculated by total bases/at bats. Total bases is singles+(doubles*2)+(triples*3)+(home runs*4). In essence, slugging is more important than batting average because batting average treats singles as the same as doubles and as the same as home runs. Ty Cobb's career slugging percenatge is .512. Mantle's career slugging percenatge is at .557, which is 45 points higher. Now, yes Cobb's batting average is 68 points hitgher than Mantle's. But as I proved before, slugging average is more important than batting average. Slugging is about 1.6 times more important than batting average. Therfore, Mantle is acutally better than Cobb (72 point advanatage in slugging to Cobb's 68 points in batting average).

OPS+:
There is another stat called OPS+. This stats is an advanced verison of OPS, which is on base percenatge plus slugging average. The complete formula for OPS+ is:
[(On base percenatge/league on base percenatge)+(Slugging Average/League Slugging Average)-1]*100.
OPS+ is very important because it takes into account era and it takes into account on base percenatge, which is the most important raw stat. Cobb's career OPS+ is 168, which is very good. Mantle, however has a higher OPS+; his is 172. Therefore, Mantle has better statsitics relative to his league.
Thank You.

Sources:
1) http://www.baseball-reference.com...
2) http://www.baseball-reference.com...
Badtothebone

Con

Badtothebone forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
deever

Pro

Round 4

Batting Average and Secondary Average:
Secondary Average is a useful stat that measure the ability to get on base, power and steals. Historically, secondary average is about the same as batting average, but it ranges from .100 to .500. Cobb's career secondary average is .333. which is pretty good, but Mantle has a monstrous .491. This completely wipes out Cobb's advantage in steals and batting average. This is because:
a) secondary average is more important than batting average
b) stolen bases is included in secondary average, therefore it cannot be counted again

Runs Created:
Runs created is a stat created by Bill James. Mantle created runs at .201 runs per plate appearance. Cobb created .190 runs per plate appearance. Mantle created more runs.

Sources:
1) http://www.baseball-reference.com...
2) http://www.baseball-reference.com...
Badtothebone

Con

Badtothebone forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
deever

Pro

Mantle is better.
Badtothebone

Con

Badtothebone forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by deever 3 years ago
deever
Somebody vote pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeee. (please)
Posted by deever 3 years ago
deever
More skill bladerunner060. Not just more valuable to your team.
Posted by bladerunner060 3 years ago
bladerunner060
How are you determining "better"?
No votes have been placed for this debate.