The Instigator
jc1996
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
PowerPikachu21
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Microsoft Paint should be discontinued after 32 years of existence.

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Post Voting Period
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It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/25/2017 Category: Technology
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 558 times Debate No: 103296
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (8)
Votes (0)

 

jc1996

Con

Earlier, Microsoft announced it will release by September the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update, the first without a long-cherished program, the Microsoft Paint.

For me, it is not right to remove a long-standing stalwart of the Windows experience because since 1985, it has been part of creativity using educational technology. It makes our childhood more open to real-world possibilities, passing from generations, and improving the lives of young artist. Discontinuing it will downgrade Microsoft's reputation in the age of computing.

Back in my elementary days, Microsoft Paint has been used in my Computer class, doing art-related activities. I am embraced by the older version of Paint, because I can create anything with just a click of a mouse and some strokes. Without it, mistakes would have happened and I could possibly go back to the drawing board. Efficiency, as well as its features, are the advantages of having Microsoft Paint.

MS Paint brought the world together to infinite worlds of creativity and I am one of the people who are opposing this latest move by Microsoft. Discontinuing a Microsoft gem and disappearing it from our screens forever will lose Microsoft hundreds of millions of dollars and the users of the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update will lose interest anymore, because how are they going to create a world of limitless possibilities without MS Paint?

Windows 10 Fall Creators Update will be a failure if Microsoft insists on discontinuing Microsoft Paint, and the world will go back to nothing. Vincent Van Gogh said, "If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced."

Those are the arguments against the discontinuation of Microsoft Paint and the latest move by Microsoft. I await for my opponent for his response on the matter.
PowerPikachu21

Pro

32 years. That's an incredibly long time for an art program to be active. I do understand where they're coming from, and I agree that it's time for MS Paint to fall down.

How many people still use MS Paint anyways? There's tons of other ways to make a picture online, such as DeviantArt.
Debate Round No. 1
jc1996

Con

My opponent said that 32 years is enough for Microsoft Paint to wipe out from our screens, and he also argued that there are other ways to make a picture online, such as DeviantArt, however, he cannot name one key disadvantage of Microsoft Paint that becomes a factor for its discontinuation.

There are three main advantages for Microsoft Paint, those three reasons why MS Paint should remain in our screens. [1]
1. You do not have to buy anything to use Microsoft Paint. The program has always been free and users have never had to pay for upgrades, enhancements or bug fixes. Since Paint is part of the Windows operating system, Paint updates are included whenever Microsoft releases a new version of Windows. Online tutorials and tips are available, as well as extensive documentation.
2. Paint does not have all the options and features found in many image editing programs. Photoshop and Paintshop, for example, have a variety of filters, brushes and robust editing tools in their toolboxes. Paint does not support transparency, filters or layers. It only allows users to resize, rotate and merge images. The program has a small set of brushes, pens and other drawing tools. However, sometimes these features are sufficient to perform basic image manipulation. Paint also has a convenient text tool that overlays text objects on top of images. The program supports many popular image formats, such as JPEGs and GIFs.
3. Sometimes complex software is not always better software. If you need to resize an image quickly or create an impromptu freehand drawing, Paint will allow you do that within minutes of opening the program. Paint's learning curve is small because its feature set is small. The software's simplicity enables budding artists to begin painting, editing and cropping images and photos after learning a few, basic concepts. Microsoft added new enhancements to the Windows 7 version of Paint. These enhancements, including a new ribbon similar to the one in Office products, simplify navigation and optimize the user experience. This results in a cleaner, more ergonomic interface.

There are people who still use MS Paint, anyway, so I challenge my opponent to put counterclaims on why he agrees that MS Paint will no longer exist.

[1] http://www.ehow.co.uk...
PowerPikachu21

Pro

I thank you for giving me some important information about MS Paint. I would like to expand on my earlier arguments. But I looked at your source... you literally copy/pasted the information into your Round 2.

Argument:

"My opponent said that 32 years is enough for Microsoft Paint to wipe out from our screens, and he also argued that there are other ways to make a picture online, such as DeviantArt, however, he cannot name one key disadvantage of Microsoft Paint that becomes a factor for its discontinuation."

That MS Paint is very limited? It's got colors and a few brushes, sure. But what if we wanted to draw something really amazing? DeviantArt is a wonderful website. Specifically, the engine to make the art is called DeviantArt muro. It has many brush tools, a text option, eyedropper (click on a color to get that color in the brush), and layers. [A tip when using layers; draw a plus sign on one layer which you want the next object's dimensions to be.] MS Paint doesn't have all of this. And also, making art on DeviantArt is free. There is premium membership (called Core Membership), but that's irrelevant, since nothing is keeping you from making art here. All you need is an email for account activation.

Rebuttal:

"1. You do not have to buy anything to use Microsoft Paint. The program has always been free and users have never had to pay for upgrades, enhancements or bug fixes. Since Paint is part of the Windows operating system, Paint updates are included whenever Microsoft releases a new version of Windows. Online tutorials and tips are available, as well as extensive documentation."

I'm very sure MS Paint isn't the only free art program. Like I said, you don't need to become a Core Member in DeviantArt to draw. And you can definitely find tips on YouTube and perhaps the DeviantArt community.

"2. Paint does not have all the options and features found in many image editing programs. Photoshop and Paintshop, for example, have a variety of filters, brushes and robust editing tools in their toolboxes. Paint does not support transparency, filters or layers. It only allows users to resize, rotate and merge images. The program has a small set of brushes, pens and other drawing tools. However, sometimes these features are sufficient to perform basic image manipulation. Paint also has a convenient text tool that overlays text objects on top of images. The program supports many popular image formats, such as JPEGs and GIFs."

Um... thanks for showing me how DeviantArt has more tools. JPEG is a very common image. And as for GIFs... http://www.deviantart.com...

I think DeviantArt trumps again.

"3. Sometimes complex software is not always better software. If you need to resize an image quickly or create an impromptu freehand drawing, Paint will allow you do that within minutes of opening the program. Paint's learning curve is small because its feature set is small. The software's simplicity enables budding artists to begin painting, editing and cropping images and photos after learning a few, basic concepts. Microsoft added new enhancements to the Windows 7 version of Paint. These enhancements, including a new ribbon similar to the one in Office products, simplify navigation and optimize the user experience. This results in a cleaner, more ergonomic interface."

DeviantArt muro's interface is also simple. The icons appear in the bottom in a row. You can see the Brush, Eraser, Fill Bucket, things like that. To the right, you got a camera view of your whole picture, as well as layers. If you're confused, there's always tutorials online. But once someone sees DeviantArt, they'll realise the potential for fascinating art and move here from MS Paint.

Conclusion:

MS Paint isn't the only free paint tool. DeviantArt is overall better than MS Paint, as it contains not only better variety of tools, but it's also a website where you can talk with friends and learn more about both them, and how to draw even better.
Debate Round No. 2
jc1996

Con

My opponent gave some pertinent information about why DeviantArt is better than MS Paint, he also argued that DeviantArt "contains not only better variety of tools, but it's also a website where you can talk with friends and learn more about both them, and how to draw even better".

However, DeviantArt is an ONLINE program, and not an educational software. Microsoft Paint, as an educational software, allows the user to draw, color and edit pictures. This tool, when used in the classroom, enhances teaching and learning alike. The software is very easy to use hence children can use Microsoft Windows Paint with minimal assistance. Teaching while using this software can help to develop children's ability to using realistic programming. While making lessons fun and interesting, it is a good means of enhancing the mulitple intelligences, for instance, those who have good spatial abilities may be interested in becoming graphic artists or designers. [1]

Earlier, Megan Saunders, General Manager of 3D for Everyone Initiative, Windows Experiences, said in a blog post: "MS Paint is here to stay, it will just have a new home soon, in the Windows Store where it will be available for free." [2]

She also said: "In addition to the new 3D capabilities, many of the MS Paint features people know and love like photo editing and 2D creation are in Paint 3D--the new app for creativity, available for free with the Windows 10 Creators Update. In the future, we will offer MS Paint in the Windows Store also for free and continue to provide new updates and experiences to Paint 3D so people have the best creative tools all in one place." [3] This comes after the outcry of fan support led the company to clarify its plans for Paint. [4] [5] [6] [7]

In conclusion, MS Paint should not be removed as a default Windows program and for future plans, include it as well with new features, like the ones on Paint.NET, and Paint 3D. I gave my opponent facts about why it should not be killed off. Why would he deny it?

[1] http://vashtiedutech.blogspot.com...
[2] https://blogs.windows.com...
[3] https://www.washingtonpost.com...
[4] https://www.theguardian.com...
[5] http://www.cnbc.com...
[6] http://www.independent.co.uk...
[7] http://money.cnn.com...
PowerPikachu21

Pro

I deny that MS Paint is a good tool because I personally find DeviantArt better in a variety of ways. But let's examine the new points my opponent made.

Rebuttal:

"However, DeviantArt is an ONLINE program, and not an educational software. Microsoft Paint, as an educational software, allows the user to draw, color and edit pictures. This tool, when used in the classroom, enhances teaching and learning alike."

An educational software teaches people by itself. If merely used in a classroom, the software isn't educational, but rather the lesson given by the teacher.

"The software is very easy to use hence children can use Microsoft Windows Paint with minimal assistance. Teaching while using this software can help to develop children's ability to using realistic programming. While making lessons fun and interesting, it is a good means of enhancing the mulitple intelligences, for instance, those who have good spatial abilities may be interested in becoming graphic artists or designers."

And this is exclusive to MS Paint? Why can't there be lessons about DeviantArt? As DeviantArt does have users you can talk with, you can learn things about DeviantArt inside of DeviantArt. All you need to do to draw in DeviantArt muro is an account, and an email for activation.

"Earlier, Megan Saunders, General Manager of 3D for Everyone Initiative, Windows Experiences, said in a blog post: "MS Paint is here to stay, it will just have a new home soon, in the Windows Store where it will be available for free." "

The debate is "Should MS Paint be discontinued", not "will it". Whether it is or isn't still active is irrelevant.

"She also said: "In addition to the new 3D capabilities, many of the MS Paint features people know and love like photo editing and 2D creation are in Paint 3D--the new app for creativity, available for free with the Windows 10 Creators Update. In the future, we will offer MS Paint in the Windows Store also for free and continue to provide new updates and experiences to Paint 3D so people have the best creative tools all in one place." [3] This comes after the outcry of fan support led the company to clarify its plans for Paint."

So 3D. Will it surpass DeviantArt muro and the DeviantArt community? I'm not certain, but I'm not conceding yet.

Conclusion:

DeviantArt surpasses the current MS Paint via having layers, a community to talk with, and being fairly simple to use.
Debate Round No. 3
jc1996

Con

There you have it. He still can't deny the fact that Microsoft Paint is relevant because he prefers DeviantArt more, because of his complacency over the claims. What if you don't have Internet connection, would you use DeviantArt? Absolutely no, because it requires an active Internet connection to work. Let's examine the only point that my opponent has made.

"An educational software teaches people by itself. If merely used in a classroom, the software isn't educational, but rather the lesson given by the teacher."

An educational software adheres to the principles as a theory and practice of educational approaches to learning, as well as assistance in the communication of knowledge. If merely used in a classroom, it is still educational software because it may be projected onto a large whiteboard at the front of the class and/or run simultaneously on a network of desktop computers, thus activating the classroom management.

If MS Paint disappears from our screens forever, then would they use DeviantArt Muro instead, even if the user doesn't have a DeviantArt account? No, because it would tend to hours of repeating the tasks because the features are different to the ones that MS Paint have.

Conclusion:
DeviantArt may be advanced, but MS Paint is overall better than that because it is the mother of all paint and drawing programs, and disappearing it would mean that DeviantArt Muro may take until 2050 to perfect what MS Paint has done since 1985.

I urge to vote a ballot for Con because your imaginations are at stake, and the shapes of the world will be done in just an airbrush away.
PowerPikachu21

Pro

Okay, I'm seeing some fallacies being commited by Con this round.

Rebuttal:

"He still can't deny the fact that Microsoft Paint is relevant because he prefers DeviantArt more, because of his complacency over the claims."

Because DeviantArt is better? I mean, you haven't argued that DeviantArt muro doesn't have more variety, or attempted to directly refute my points, so that's kind of a silent concession.

"An educational software adheres to the principles as a theory and practice of educational approaches to learning, as well as assistance in the communication of knowledge."

MS Paint: A basic painting tool. Doesn't have tutorials.
DeviantArt: More variety than MS Paint. Has other users you can interact with and learn from.

I believe DeviantArt is the more educational out of the two, since you can learn about the program inside of it.

"If merely used in a classroom, it is still educational software because it may be projected onto a large whiteboard at the front of the class and/or run simultaneously on a network of desktop computers, thus activating the classroom management."

Same here. MS Paint isn't the only thing you can load onto your computer in the classroom. Pull up DeviantArt on the whiteboard.

"If MS Paint disappears from our screens forever, then would they use DeviantArt Muro instead, even if the user doesn't have a DeviantArt account? No, because it would tend to hours of repeating the tasks because the features are different to the ones that MS Paint have."

Getting an account is easy on anything. Register, select your username and password, and enter your email, and go to the email to activate your account. And what exactly is taking people hours to do? If you're talking about figuring out what the buttons do, there isn't a whole lot of buttons. There's ones everyone knows, like Fill Bucket, Brush (with numerous types to suit your needs), and Eraser. It's not that hard, but you can look up a tutorial on YouTube if you're lost.

"DeviantArt may be advanced, but MS Paint is overall better than that because it is the mother of all paint and drawing programs, and disappearing it would mean that DeviantArt Muro may take until 2050 to perfect what MS Paint has done since 1985."

It's good because it's the origin? I think Amiibo is better than Skylanders, even though Skylanders started putting statues onto scanners. Just because something started a trend does not make it good or the best. This is a logical Fallacy; Appeal to Origin. So what did MS Paint do that DeviantArt can't?

"I urge to vote a ballot for Con because your imaginations are at stake, and the shapes of the world will be done in just an airbrush away."

Nice Appeal to Emotion. But you said MS Paint isn't going anywhere, and it's not like I'm going to show this debate to Microsoft and/or demand they stop making MS Paint. All that matters is who made the better arguments in this debate. As far as I know, I showed that there's no reason why MS Paint should be continuing. DeviantArt could substitute very nicely. I think that's it for now.
Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 11 months ago
PowerPikachu21
@C_e_e Most people wouldn't lick an electronic device, or anything that isn't food (or sometimes another person...), or at least I assume so. (And it might be the same as your computer screen in general.)
Posted by C_e_e 11 months ago
C_e_e
I was surprised to notice that no one mentioned during the debate that Microsoft Paint taste funny when you lick on it. You can test this out yourself; open Microsoft Paint, lick on it on your computer screen, and you will notice a static-esque flavor that pops along your tongue with some notes of glass and dust.

So, the contenders were remiss for not mentioning that Microsoft Paint tastes funny.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 11 months ago
PowerPikachu21
@jc1996 "The voter is required to either specifically assess arguments made by both sides or specifically assess one side"s arguments and the burdens of the debaters. The voter appears to opt for the latter, but just states that Con has a burden, and doesn"t explain why he carries the central burden of the debate or how Pro met his burdens."

What logic is there in the vote? And the voters aren't allowed to state their own arguments; they have to look at ours. What did I downgrade?
Posted by jc1996 11 months ago
jc1996
whiteflame, I agree with devinator534's vote that he gave sufficient reasons and pure logic to explain his vote. PowerPikachu21 used this to downgrade devinator534's vote, so please reinstate the vote given.
Posted by whiteflame 11 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: devinator534// Mod action: Removed<

5 point to Con (Arguments, Sources), 1 point to Pro (Conduct). Reasons for voting decision: Con loses conduct points simply because he plagiarized in round 2. You did not put quotation marks around the part you copied and Pro pointed that out. Con wins the round tho because Pro did not give me any reason to prefer. He just said that Deviant art is better but that gives me no reason to believe that MS Paint should be discontinued. With that logic, I could say, Toyota is better than Ford so therefore Ford should be discontinued. This was not an either/or resolution but if it was, you would have won. Because you did not fulfill your burden, I voted Con. Good round!

[*Reason for removal*] (1) Arguments are insufficiently explained. The voter is required to either specifically assess arguments made by both sides or specifically assess one side"s arguments and the burdens of the debaters. The voter appears to opt for the latter, but just states that Con has a burden, and doesn"t explain why he carries the central burden of the debate or how Pro met his burdens. (2) The voter does not explain sources.
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Posted by PowerPikachu21 11 months ago
PowerPikachu21
@devinator534 I did have an argument: That DeviantArt had more variety, therefore is better. And both sides used sources, and you aren't justifying that point allocation. I just feel it's missing lots of areas in favor of one side, so I'll report it so whiteflame can take a look.
Posted by jc1996 11 months ago
jc1996
dsjpk5, I know. Microsoft did a terrible mistake, so I charge on my contention that Microsoft Paint should not be discontinued.
Posted by dsjpk5 11 months ago
dsjpk5
You should charge your contention to "Should Microsoft Paint...". As of now, as Con, you're denying that Microsoft Paint will be discontinued.
No votes have been placed for this debate.