The Instigator
Pro (for)
3 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

Microsoft is a better company than Apple

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/6/2015 Category: Technology
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 823 times Debate No: 76263
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)




Microsoft is a superior company, in the sense that it makes better products for its consumers than Apple does.

My opponent will prove that Apple makes better products.

BOP is shared.


I accept. Round structure wasn't specified so I'm assuming that the first round is for acceptance and clarification of my position.

Per opening argument the burden of proof is split.

I'm currently under the impression that Apple makes superior consumer products in comparison to Microsoft so that's what I'll be arguing for. Remember, superior consumer products is the crux of this debate. Anything else is irrelevant. Or at least that's what I thought based on pro's opening argument upon accepting. I hope to learn something interesting about this topic over the course of this short debate. I await pro's arguments.
Debate Round No. 1


Why Microsoft is superior

Software for Personal Computers

Window is a the vastly superior operating system, compared to just OS X. A big part of it has to do with OS X being largely a closed source operating system. The Windows world is a feast of free- and shareware, free downloads that do just about anything. On the Mac side you have to change the settings to install anything that isn't approved by Apple itself. It means the software all works well, but the choice is limited. Also, OS X can only be run on Apple products, whereas Windows is practically avaiable on every computer sold to consumers. You can run Windows on low end machines, as well as high end ones. For OS X, you have limited choices, and all laptops range from $800-$8000. If a consumer who was on a limited budget wanted to run OS X, he can't, because Apple doesn't give the option.


Do you really need a shiny and thin laptop to get work done? if you needed to type a word document you would need to buy a $1000 Mac to accomplish that, while you could buy a Microsoft Surface at $499. Or if that isn't an option, you can opt for a $200 cheaper laptop which runs Windows.

Xbox and PC gaming

Microsoft is seriously the company to go with if you plan on gaming. With Xbox, the newest titles come out, and you can experience them with 60 FPS and 1080 p resolution. If you want to take your game further, you can build your own PC, and play games in 4k. Also the price to build that, is around the same price as getting a Macbook Pro. For gaming on Mac, often you have to wait longer than the release date for PC, and it usually is just a ported version of the game, meaning the gaming experience will be different.

I'll post my other arguments in the coming rounds.


I'll provide my positive case this round then rebut next round.

We're comparing superior products between Apple and Microsoft only in markets that they're participating in. We wouldn't compare brand X that makes toasters and refrigerators to brand Y that only makes toasters and consider the brand that only makes toasters inferior just because they aren't in the refrigerator market. We're comparing two brands with each other to see who makes superior consumer products. The only way to make a fair comparison is to see which product is better in whatever market that they're participating in. If Apple doesn't make laptops for gaming, gaming laptops aren't a factor of comparison.

Reasons why Apple makes superior consumer products.


The cost that you pay up front is the acquisition cost. The true cost of owning the computer is the residual value - acquisition cost. The difference really tells you what your computer costs to own. Macs retain much higher residual value in comparison to a Windows PC which more than makes up for the difference in the higher acquisition cost. Since Macs have a higher residual value - acquisition cost than windows computers do, Macs are the better value.

Let’s compare today’s value of a 2011 Macbook with a 2011 windows computer on Amazon. Amazon is the largest internet based retailer in the US and has extremely competitive rates on prices.

A Macbook Pro from 2011, a 4 year old computer, was $1,199 upon release and currently sells for $499 used from Amazon. If you were to sell the computer today, $499 would be the amount you could get by selling it to a private party. Amazon will give you a $424 giftcard to trade it in.

Compare this with a windows $1,199 ZenBook UX21E, CNET’s “best laptop of 2011”, which doesn’t sell used on Amazon anymore. It's likely that there is very little to no demand for this product anymore so selling to a private party would be very difficult. Amazon offers a $256 giftcard if you trade it in.

Amazon offers 60% more trade in value for the Macbook Pro. It's the same story, time after time, regardless of what Microsoft laptop is pitted against an Apple one. It’s well known that Macbooks and other Apple products retain much higher resale values than Windows computers or other brands in general. As such, they retain a higher value.

Consumer reviews


What better way to evaluate a superior consumer product than to hear from the consumers themselves? I'll use Amazon again because of the large sample size of consumer reviews. These are comparable laptops.


Windows: CNET's "best laptop of 2011" Asus Zenbook UX21 ($1,199) has 3.1/5 stars on Amazon with 29 customer reviews.

Apple: The Macbook Pro 2011 model ($1,199) has 4.5/5 stars on Amazon with 455 customer reviews.


Apple: The Macbook air mid-2012 model ($1,199) has 4.4/5 stars on Amazon with 415 customer reviews.

Windows: The Samsung Series 9 ($1,400) , one of Gizmodo's best windows laptops of 2012, has 3.8/5 stars on Amazon with 77 customer reviews.


Apple: Macbook air mid-2013 model ($1,099) has 4.4/5 stars on Amazon with 264 customer reviews.

Windows: Asus Zenbook Prime Touch UX31A ($1,199), 2nd place (to Apple) on pcmag's best ultraportables of 2013, has 3.9/5 stars on Amazon with 37 customer reviews.


Windows: The Dell XPS13 ($1,199) 2015 model is currently regarded by professional reviewers as one of the best windows ultraportable laptops and has 3.8/5 stars on Amazon with 77 customer reviews.

Apple: The Apple Macbook Pro ($1,299) 2015 model has 4.6/5 stars on Amazon with 89 customer reviews.

Year after year, Apple laptops consistently score higher with consumers vs. windows laptops. The whole crux of this debate is on whether Apple or Windows makes better *consumer products* so this is a very big win in my corner because the consumers are the best ones to ask.

Now, you might think that I've selectively chosen low consumer scoring but high professionally scoring windows laptops to match up against Apple laptops to prove my point. I haven't done this. It's way, way too time consuming to even find comparably priced Windows laptops (by year) to pit against Apples - mainly because windows computers have many different versions of their laptops without changing the product name so I have to do my research and make sure I'm looking at the correct year version. Go ahead and pit different windows computers against Apples and see how the consumers review it. Apple consistently scores higher with the consumers.

Best Laptop Brand rates brands from best to worst by examining "all the biggest notebook makers each year, taking a hard look at laptop quality, technical support, value and selection, and other criteria". Apple has won 1st place from 2011-2015 beating out Windows OS computers Dell, HP, MSI, Samsung, Lenovo, Asus, Toshiba, and Acer year after year.

According to another review website it's the same story with no close second.;

Smart Phones

Apple IOS iPhones have dominated Windows in the smartphone market. Just googling "best smartphone 2015" will show a plethora of current Android and Apple IOS devices but windows phones are nowhere to be found. CNET doesn't have any windows phones considered the best of 2015 whereas the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 plus are both listed.

Techradar made a list of the 10 best smartphones in the US and none of those phones listed used the Windows OS. The Apple iPhone 6 and 6 plus made the list.

From 2012-2015 marketshare for Windows smartphones has fluctated between 2.0-3.2% whereas marketshare for Apple in the smartphone market has been between 15.2-22.9%. In comparison between Apple and Microsoft, Apple has larger demand from consumers. This is correlated with having a superior consumer product.


Apple scores higher with professional reviewers as well as consumers in the tablet market vs. windows OS tablets as well.


PCMAG rates Apple iPad Air 1st, Apple iPad Air 2 2nd, and the Asus Transformer book (using Windows OS) 3rd.

The Asus Transformer book has a 3.7/5 on Amazon with 274 customer reviews.

The Apple iPad Air has 4.6/5 stars on Amazon with 2,614 customer reviews. The Apple iPad Air 2 has 4.7/5 stars with 1,462 customer reviews.

It's the same story, year after year, since the tablet market has ever existed. Apple's ratings consistently outperform Microsoft both professionally and at the consumer level.

Apple OS vs Windows OS

In comparison to Windows OS, IOS is better because it has:

- More streamlined and intuitive UI

- IOS has a lack of viruses, spyware, and malware in comparison to Windows PC's

- iCloud syncs all of your devices and gives you an extra storage option.

- Microsoft uses their software with third-party brands making customer service issues more difficult. Apple doesn't.

- Apple makes upgrading to a different version of IOS easier than Windows make its users upgrading to a different version of their OS.

- Wndows can run on a Mac anyway using third party programs.

Brand Loyalty

Apple and Samsung are neck in neck in brand loyalty, Apple winning last year but lagging slightly behind Samsung this year. Microsoft's brand loyalty was so bad this year that it deserved a dishonorable mention.

"SurveyMonkey likes to define industry benchmarks to help companies and human beings judge where brands stand. Samsung scored a 35 for customer loyalty, while Apple managed a 28. Both scores were above the industry benchmark of 19.

Where Apple did better, however, was in customer service satisfaction. There, it scored a 41 percent positive rating, while Samsung managed only 25. Both companies may still have much to do. The industry benchmark for customer service satisfaction is 75 percent.


One brand that doesn't come out of it at all well is Microsoft. For customer loyalty it scored a staggeringly hellish -8. That's the sort of score you might expect from Comcast and Time Warner . . . Microsoft fared slightly better in customer service satisfaction. It managed a 19 percent score there."

Music players

Apple and Microsoft competed in the portable music player industry until 2011 when Microsoft's Zune brand was killed off by the iPod touch.

"[The Zune HD] ran apps—but since Microsoft had no overall mobile strategy, there were no apps. And it had a browser, but since Microsoft had no overall mobile strategy, it was a lame browser. It was an evolutionary dead end. And it had to die.

The iPod touch, on the other hand, is part of a coherent, well-connected ecosystem. It runs the same OS as the iPhone; later, the iPad joined the crowd. Apple's commitment to iOS has never been questioned. the iPod touch is a device in which people can have faith."

"The general opinion is that Microsoft did all right, but maybe not quite enough to counter Apple's dominant grip on the MP3 player market."

In conclusion, Apple basically dominates Microsoft at the consumer product level in every market that they participate in. Smartphones, laptops, tablets, music players... It's not even close. Year after year, product after product, Apple has shown to make superior consumer products according to professionals and consumers themselves.

Debate Round No. 2




Con bases his argument on residual value, this isn't an accurate way of measuring value for the consumer, because what consumer uses a computer for is its software and its specs. Macs tend to hold more value after they become obselete, because they are built with high quality materials compared to Windows P.C's.

I'll make a comparison of 2 laptops

The New 2015 Apple Macbook Air 13 inch

      • 1.6GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
      • Turbo Boost up to 2.7GHz
      • Intel HD Graphics 6000
      • 4GB memory
      • 128GB PCIe-based flash storage
      • 12 hour battery llife
      • 1440x900 screen resolution

Price: $1,119.00 (U.S)

Dell XPS 13 inch 2015

    • 5th Generation Intel® Dual Core™ i5-5200U Processor ( 2.20 GHz)
    • 8GB Dual Channel DDR3L-RS 1600Mhz (On Board
    • Intel (R) HD Graphics 5500
    • 128 GB PCIe-based flash storage

    • 12 hour battery life
    • 1920x1080 screen resolution

Price: 1,119.00 (U.S)


Both devices run a dual core Intel i5 processor. The difference however, is the actual processor itself. On Apple's website, it says their product runs a 1.6GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor. The XPS 13 however, has a higher clockspeed.

Verdict: Because the XPS 13 has a higher clockspeed, the XPS 13 beats the Macbook Air in this aspect.


Apple again dissapoints. It only provides 4gb of ram for the 13 inch MacBook Air, whereas, the XPS 13 has double the RAM with 8gb. A downside with both machines is that the RAM is soldered(meaning it can't be removed and replaced). But 8gb is already very adequate for most users anyways.

Verdict: XPS 13 gives 8gb of ram, whereas the MacBook Air 13 inch gives only 4gb. XPS wins again.


Apple used the Intel HD 6000 graphics. While the XPS 13 uses the Intel HD 5300 graphics. Technically speaking, Apple does use the better graphics, but there is a very small perfomance difference between the 2.

Verdict: Because it has a slightly more powerful graphics chip, the MacBook Air 13 inch wins.


Both devices use a 128gb SSD.

Verdict: Draw

Battery Life

Both devices can run for 12 hours.

Verdict: Draw

Screen Resolution

The MacBook Air 13 inch uses a mediocre 1440x900 resolution. The reason why they refuse to increase it, is because it would impact the battery life. The XPS 13 uses a Full HD 1980x1080 resolution. This is impressive, because it still maintains the 12 hour battery life.

Verdict: XPS 13's screen is far superior.

Operating System

This one is certainly depends on the preference of the user, but In my opinion, Windows OS is far superior.

Windows OS
-More Programs
-shared source(meaning others can manipulate the code to create software)
-Ease of Troubleshooting

-far less programs
-closed source(very restricted)
-If you break it, you have to go to Apple to fix it.
- Is unsupported in 1-2 years


As you can see, the XPS 13 has far greater specs that the MacBook Air 13 inch. So to a consumer, which would be more of value? You get better specs, more ram, and a better screen.


Consumer Reviews

Reviews from amazon, largely depend on where you come from. If I compare the Dell Xps 13 from my location, it received 5 stars on Amazon, while the Macbook Air received 4.5 stars. Keep in mind however, not everybody buys laptops from Amazon, so making this comparison isn't fair in the first place.

You can see for yourself, that results varied from what my opponent provided.

Best Laptop Brand

Con makes a mistake here. Microsoft isn't a company that sells a laptop brand, rather one that sells software to run on PC manafactured laptops. So, if a company isn't rated the highest laptop brand, it doesn't mean Microsoft is at fault, because they are not the ones in charge. Also, it doesn't explain why the market share for P.C's are still in over 90%/

Smart Phones

No arguments here really, but Apple is certainly ahead of Microsoft in the moble market, but that is because Microsoft only seriously started competing after the release of Windows 8, and Apple entered the mobile market in 2007. Microsoft phone is a growing platform, and Con hasn't really argued why the iphone is better, but rather it sells more.


Con compares the tablet market by comparing the Asus tablet, but a more accurate tablet would be the Microsoft Surface. Here is why I think the Surface is better.


A reason why many people avoided the Surface Pro 3, was because it was too expensive. The Surface 3 fixes that problem. With a 64 GB SSD, You get a hybrid of a tablet and a PC with an intel Atom processor for $449. For the same price, you get a 16 GB ipad Air.


The Surface RT was a failure, due to the fact that the RT OS just wasn't adequate enough with its limited choice of programs. Now with the Surface 3, you have a fullblown version of Windows, which means you have a ton of programs to download and run on your device. This way, you can be more productive on your Surface. With the iPad, most apps aren't geared towards productivity, and its more of an entertainment device. The Surface 3 can serve as both.


Unlike the iPad, the Surface 3 comes with a intergrated keyboard. This increases your productivity, and bridges the gap between a tablet and a laptop. The iPad comes with bluetooth keyboards, but most aren't as functional as the Surface's keyboard.

Brand Loyalty

Brand loyalty isn't a valid argument, because it doesn't explain why Apple makes superior products. This is precisely why Apple continues to get sales with their iPhones. It isn't nessrarlily price friendly or powerful, it has an Apple logo.

Music players

This isn't a fair comparision, because Microsoft no longer sell this product. Obiviously, with no market competition, there isn't any doubt that Apple would sell more.

Also, Con says that he can't compare gaming, because Apple doesn't having any product for the gaming industry. This is false. Apple sold a Apple Pippin, a gaming console. Since, both of us have obselte products, I'd would propose that none of us would bring up the Zune or the Pippin in the coming rounds.



Thanks for the debate Pro, its been fun.

Rebuttals for round 1 arguments:

Pro points out that OS X is closed source operating system while Windows is open. The benefit of having an open source system makes access to free downloads and shareware easier. The downside is that it also makes Windows more prone to viruses, spyware, Malware, bugs, and other hiccups in comparison to OS X. Consumers want choices but they also want a reliable and stable OS. Mac OS delivers.

It's true that OS X can only be ran on Apple products, but Windows can be ran on a Mac. So you get the best of both worlds if you decide to go with the Mac. You lose out on being able to run OS X if you have a windows computer.

Budget PCs aren't a point of comparison since Apple doesn't make budget PC's. We can only compare products between Microsoft and Apple if they're both participating in a certain market in order to decide which is better between the two. This makes Xbox and Gaming PC's irrelevant since Apple doesn't make consoles or gaming PC's so it isn't a fair point of comparison.

Pro likens a Mac to a computer only capable of typing a word doc on then gives a list of cheaper Windows computers that are capable of doing that. Macs are a great multimedia device with a high res retina screen for pictures, video editing, movies, music, etc., so it's not true that Macs are only good for working on word docs.


There's a famous saying that the "value" of something is whatever someone else is willing to pay for it. If Macs retain more residual value, people are willing to pay more for Macs on the secondhand market. This makes owning a Mac more valuable. Pro agrees that Macs tend to hold more value because they're built with high quality materials compared to a Windows PC.

Comparison between 2015 Apple Macbook and Dell XPS 2015

Pro says "Microsoft isn't a company that sells a laptop brand, rather one that sells software to run on PC manufactured laptops. So, if a company isn't rated the highest laptop brand, it doesn't mean Microsoft is at fault, because they are not the ones in charge."

Following this logic, "Dell" isn't representative of Microsofts quality as a company. So either he must concede this point or admit that other brands that run Windows software is represntative of Microsoft's product. Either way, Microsoft loses out being on the top brand to Apple from 2011-2015 or the Dell XPS 13 showcase is a moot point.

The clock speed is slightly slower on the Macbook but the graphics are slightly better. A slower clockspeed also theoretically means greater longevity for the life of the computer. Most of the comparisons made between the two were draws or subjective benefits for either side. Macs also come with industry leading customer service, a solid keyboard and track pad, style, reliability, greater residual value, and other factors that aren't on paper.

Consumer Reviews

Amazon is just a large internet marketplace where a large sample size of user reviews are given for products. There's no reason to think it's an unfair source to gather information about consumer reviews.

Pro chooses a 2015 XPS 13 model on Amazon that had 5/5 stars, but with only 7 customer reviews. In order to get an accurate picture of what consumers think about a product you need an adeqate sample size. I can flip a coin and get heads twice a row but it doesn't mean that heads is a 100% result.

My first google search came up with the 2015 XPS 13 model on Amazon that has 3.9/5 stars with 78 customer reviews.

This is a much more accurate picture due to the larger sample size.

Here is the Macbook Pro (2015) with 4.6/5 stars on amazon with 89 customer reviews.

Pro drops my other examples of Macbooks having higher consumer ratings vs. critically acclaimed Windows OS notebooks for years 2011, 2012, and 2013.

Best Laptop Brand

If Microsoft isn't represented by windows running on other brands, no other brands can be representative of Microsoft, including the Dell XPS 13. The fact that Apple won best brand 2011-2015 (by more than one source) is testament to their high quality consumer products.

Smart Phones

I gave an argument showing that top reviewer websites don't even include Microsoft OS smartphones in their top 10 "best smartphones" categories (like CNET and Techradar) but iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 plus are included. It's true that Windows phones are relatively new in the smartphone market, but they haven't been able to penetrate it or gain ground on the immensely popular and highly sought after iPhones.


The Asus Tablet that I used for comparison ran Windows OS. I can compare using the Microsoft surface too though.

The Microsoft Surface 3 was in 8th place on pcmags top 10 best tablets of 2015. The Apple iPad air was 1st.

The Microsoft surface 3 has 4.0/5 stars with 93 customer review on Amazon.

The Apple iPad air has 4.6/5 stars with 2,619 customer reviews on Amazon.

The surface 3 may have improved on ealier versions of the surface, but both professional reviewers and consumers clearly prefer the Apple iPad Air. It's more popular and is rated more highly with the consumers.

Brand Loyalty

Brand loyalty is a valid argument because it's a surveyed measure of customer service satisfaction and customer loyalty with the company. Apple is far above Microsoft in both customer service satisfaction and customer loyalty.

Apple scored a 28 on customer loyalty and 41% positive customer service satisfaction.

Microsoft scored a -8 on customer loyalty and a 19% positive customer service satisfaction

Music Players

Music players are a fair comparison because they both made products competing against each other. The Zune vs. the iPod touch.

Apple did have the Apple Pippin back in 1995 but during that time Microsoft wasn't in the console gaming market. There were no competitive products made between Apple and Microsoft in order to make a comparison.

Why Apple is a better company than Microsoft (based on consumer products)

(1) Apple computers retain significantly higher value than the best Windows PCs.

(2) Consumer reviews (2011-2015) on Apple computers are consistently higher on average vs. computers running windows OS.

(3) The Apple laptop brand has taken first place the last 5 years in a row.

(4) Professional review websites consider Apple iPhones to be the among the best while windows OS smartphones don't make the cut.

(5) Professional review websites and consumers ratings are higher on Apple tablets vs. tablets made by Microsoft or that run their OS.

(6) OS X is more streamlined and intuitive, lacks the viruses, spyware, and malware in comparison to Windows PC's, has iCloud storage options, is a first-party software, makes upgrades easy from previous OS X versions, and has the ability to run Windows on Mac but not vice versa.

(7) Brand loyalty and customer service satisfaction for Apple is immensely higher than it is for Microsoft.

(8) The Apple iPod Touch killed Microsoft's Zune and continues to be the dominant consumer portable music player.

Overall, Apple is the better company because the data shows that consumers and professional reviews prefer Apple products on a consistent basis versus Microsoft.

Thanks for the debate!

Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Gareth_BM 1 year ago
On a moral point of view I would like to point out apples factory conditions are terrible which drove so many of their workers to throw them selves off the roof of the factory they had to put up netting to save face.
Posted by tajshar2k 1 year ago
The surface isn't only a tablet, it also functions like a P.C.
Posted by Benshapiro 1 year ago
Thanks for the vote midnight, although, I strongly disagree about your decision on the tablet argument. It should be an on balance comparison, not decided on specs of the newest product. Specs aren't an objective means of comparison anyway since OS, reliability, support, reception, etc., are arguably more important. Consumers and professional reviewers have rated Apple tablets much higher than microsofts - including the newest surface 3 - across the board over the years. Consumers and reviews for consumers should be a more objective means of comparison than specs on paper.
Posted by Midnight1131 1 year ago
RFD for arguments.
Software - Very slight edge to Pro, both sides gave benefits and drawbacks for each OS, however while Con's argument rested on stability, Pro showed how Windows OS's had a longer support lifetime, and since it was open source, it gave consumers more options, thus appealing to a wider audience.
Value - Pro, Con didn't refute anything in the final round concerning the fact that you can buy a windows pc for the same price as a mac, but with better specs, ignoring the argument about the screen, only addressing that slower clockspeed also has it's benefits, but did not prove that slower clockspeed is better than a faster one.
Gaming - Pro, as Apple failed with the Apple Pippin, while Microsoft succeeded with the Xbox
Music - Con, as Microsoft failed with the MS Zune, while Apple succeeded with the iPod.
Best Laptop Brand - Con, sources were provided that shows that Apple ranked higher as a laptop brand, whereas MS placed very low on the list.
Smartphones - Con, con showed how Apple has a much stronger grip on the smartphone market, whereas Microsoft still hasn't gained any significant ground.
Tablets - Pro, Pro showed how the Surface 3 has higher storage compared with an ipad air of the same price. He also showed how the surface 3 has a better keyboard also, and is geared towards productivity, while still providing decent entertainment and funcionality with it's full windows 8.1 OS. Con ignored all these arguments about specs, and simply compared the 2 with consumer reviews, and these did not vary greatly, as both had decent reviews [ipad coming out on top.] Since specs are a better and more accurate comparison, this point goes to Pro.
Posted by tajshar2k 1 year ago
Thank you for this debate.
Posted by stargate 1 year ago
Microsoft is the better company.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Midnight1131 1 year ago
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD IN COMMENTS - Very good and evenly matched debate. However I give arguments to Pro, and I broke it down into the main points of the debate, while judging, which are listed in the comments. In the end, it came down to 4 points going to Pro, and 3 points going to Con.