The Instigator
DATXDUDE
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Reformist
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Middle class or rich women who get abortions past their first trimester are selfish(see rules below)

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/28/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 415 times Debate No: 85666
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (15)
Votes (0)

 

DATXDUDE

Pro

Provided that semantics are common on this site, I will provide a list of rules to prevent anyone from twisting this debate to their advantage.

1. Violation of rules 2-7 and rules 8-10 will result in forfeiture.

2. The resolution is this:
"Middle class or rich women who get abortions past their first trimester are selfish". Pro nor Con may not change or attempt to change this resolution.

3. This is the definition of selfish that me and my opponent will use for this debate. (Of a person, action, or motive) "Lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one"s own personal profit or pleasure". Pro nor Con may not change or attempt to change this definition.

4. NO SEMANTICS ALLOWED. (With the exception of rule 11).

5. No k's.

6. It is implied that women who get abortions during their first trimester or use birth control to prevent pregnancy are not selfish. Ignoring this will result in immediate forfeiture.

7. Grammar errors occurring in round 1 will not count (provided I can read your spelling of ("I accept").

8. Contentions are optional. (This is because organizing debates takes time, and I'm busy.)

9. Colloquial language is allowed (to a point. Don't push it.)

10. This is a serious debate. No trolling is allowed, although some jokes are permitted.

11. IT IS ENTIRELY UP TO ME TO INTERPRET THESE RULES.

12. HAVE FUN XPDDDDDPPPPP:):):333333333
Reformist

Con

I hope you don't turn this debate in your favor (rule 11)

And I hope we can have a semantic free debate
Debate Round No. 1
DATXDUDE

Pro

To answer Con's question: I will do my best to be unbiased about rule breaking from both me and my opponent. However, I must have rule 11 to help make sure nobody tries to deconstruct my debate.

Now that that's out of the way, the reason I think rich or middle class women who get abortions past their first trimester are selfish is self explanatory. Anyone who lacks consideration for others and is concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure is selfish. This is certainly the case for women who get abortions past their first trimester, because by doing this they show a blatant disregard for the well being of the unborn baby they have in their womb. This is different from women who use birth control or get the abortion they may need in the first trimester.

The reason that poor women who get abortions past their first trimester are not selfish is because they may not have the resources to get one before the second or (hopefully not) the third trimester. This is not the case for rich or middle class women who almost always have the ability to get the procedure done by the end of the first trimester. Also, rich and middle class women have more access to birth control such as condoms and pills than poor women do.

Please understand that I recognize that abortion is necessary under certain circumstances, such as heath concerns. However, these are the VAST minority of abortions (only 12%).
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Note: BoP is shared. I forgot to put this in the rules, but this is pretty standard for most debates.
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Source for heath related abortions:
http://www.lifenews.com...
Reformist

Con

Okay thanks for the clarification

Now on to the meat of the issue

Many women have abortions for multiple reasons

1) FInacially unstable

Many women could be in higher education or are really working hard for a promotion. Having a baby would not only make them look bad but would almost force a woman to take care of it

Why?

Firstly motherly instincts when you have a child kicks in and you feel a overwhelming desire to keep the child whether you can support it or not

Secondly even if a woman could overcome those motherly instincts society could push her to not get it adopted

2) Relationship issues

Sometimes when women get pregnant men leave them. I know its a terrible thing but its also terrible to force women into being a single mom and raising their child.

3) Health issues for the mother

In many cases birth can kill the mother who is experiencing other illnesses

Here is an article of a woman who was middle class who died after being refused an abortion

http://www.bbc.com...

4) Health issues of the Fetus

Genetics of the parents can cause extreme birth defects that could kill or make the child suffer. It doesn't make sense to call them selfish when they are looking out for the babies interest.

Also I understand you said abortion is sometimes necessary but under YOUR arguments even the women in the situation 3 and 4 are selfish people

In all these situations the women is not the selfish one. Mistakes happen in life and nobody needs their life or career ruined because of one mistake.

Sources:

http://womensissues.about.com...

http://www.bbc.com...
Debate Round No. 2
DATXDUDE

Pro

Thank you for your response.

1. "Many women could be in higher education or are really working hard for a promotion. Having a baby would not only make them look bad but would almost force a woman to take care of it"

First of all, you should add periods at the end of your sentences. I'm not trying to be rude, but your response had many errors in punctuation. It is important to consider this especially since grammar is an important indicator of who wins debates on most websites including this one.

Second of all, this argument has nothing to do with abortions past the first trimester.

2. Yes, sometimes men break up with women when they find out they are pregnant. However, this also has nothing to do with abortion occurring after the first trimester. Most men don't leave their girlfriends when they find they are pregnant, and when they do they usually leave them by the first trimester anyways, because that's usually when the man finds out she's pregnant. However, even if this is not the case, if the woman doesn't tell her partner about her pregnancy as soon as possible, she is selfish. This is because she is showing a lack of interest in aborting the fetus before it achieves a higher level of consciousness. She is also being incredibly irresponsible.

3 and 4. Yes, but abortion doesn't usually occur because of heath related concerns. You might want to look more closely at my arguments before the next round. Also, BoP (Burden of Proof) is shared, so my resolution only has to apply in MOST cases.

Your concluding statement is flawed. Obviously everyone makes mistakes, but it important to rectify those mistakes as soon as possible(in this case, by the end of the first trimester).

Vote Pro.
Reformist

Con

Before i rebutt my opponents claims i would like to address something he said

First of all, you should add periods at the end of your sentences. I'm not trying to be rude, but your response had many errors in punctuation. It is important to consider this especially since grammar is an important indicator of who wins debates on most websites including this one

Actually grammar and puncuation is not a voting decider. The only scenario where grammar or puncuation is used as a voting factor is if the arguement is so illegible that the voter has a hard time following.

Just wanted to get that out of the way

1) Yes it does have something to do with abortion past the first trimester because many times women dont know they are carrying

http://allnurses.com...

Many times women just believe they are overweight. Once the fetus starts to develop then the signature bulge will start to show but by that time they could be in the second trimester

2) Again women dont always find out they are pregnant immediatley at the first trimester. You provide no sources that men dont usually leave their women because they find out they are pregnant.

http://www.apsense.com...

http://www.articlesbase.com...

But i do......

3) and 4) You still call them selfish because many of them are in the second and third trimester according to your own arguement. Also BoP is not shared unless you say it is. You made a statement and my only job is to refute your claims. Nothing in your R1 rules states that i need to somehow explain why it isnt selfish.

My conclusion is not flawed because- Exactly- people make mistakes (They dont realize they are pregnant until 2nd trimester)

Sources:

http://allnurses.com...

http://www.apsense.com...

http://www.articlesbase.com...
Debate Round No. 3
DATXDUDE

Pro

Actually grammar and puncuation is not a voting decider. The only scenario where grammar or puncuation is used as a voting factor is if the arguement is so illegible that the voter has a hard time following."

This is untrue. Also, for the record, I AM having a hard time following what you are saying. On top of this, you made three errors just in your last statement. You really need to proofread your arguments.

1. From what I can see, this is anecdotal evidence, not backed by any sort of statistical evidence whatsoever. And "allnurses.com"? I know I might lose the conduct point for this but LMAO! I literally couldn't think of a less credible source if I tried! Voters, please keep this in mind when you vote for the winner of this debate.

2. ARE YOU FVCKING KIDDING ME?! BOTH OF THESE SOURCES ARE SKETCHY AS HELL, AND THEY'RE BOTH FVCKING BLOG POSTS, WRITTEN BY PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO EVIDENCE OF ANY KIND TO BACK UP THEIR BULLSHlT OPINIONS!
By this point, I've definitely lost the conduct point. But seriously, kid, are you in fvcking elementary school? Did you think I wouldn't read your sources? Voters, please look at his sources and tell me if they are credible in any way, shape, or form.

Jesus, I might have gotten a virus from those sketchy sites...

3 and 4. 12% of abortions are health related, yes. BoP being shared is standard for most debates though, as I said before. Whatever. It doesn't even matter, because all 10 of my rules can be interpreted by me. I can make an argument that you broke all of them, and that's all I need to win this debate anyways. Not that I care, because I only care about having my opinions challenged, and you're not doing this, Con.

Look at it this way: If there are no heath concerns, than are the women who kill their own DEVELOPED fetuses selfish?

If a woman doesn't realize she is pregnant until the second trimester, than she should woman up and have the baby like a non egotistical sociopath killer of a mother. This will not ruin her career, and it CERTAINLY won't ruin her life.

I'll give you ONE MORE CHANCE to effectively challenge my arguments, and then I'm done.
Reformist

Con

It does not matter if you are having a hard time following my arguement, which i doubt because i didnt put the period at the end of a sentence, its the voters choice.

1. Whether it is anecdotal or not its a source. You have given NO source. Biased source trumps no source. If the voters voted on sources they would either vote for me or tie because you have given nothing to back up your claims except for R2

And guess what that source was. Lifenews.com. Life news conservative website that wants to overturn abortion and give women no choice at all. How is that biased at all? Joking aside my sources give accounts of women whose boyfriends left them which indicates that men DO leave women while they are pregnant.

2. Yes you did lose the conduct point. I wanted you to read the sources..... so that you would understand that their are women out there that have had their boyfriends leave them.

3) and 4) Nothing in any of your 11 rules states that i need to show BoP. BoP is yours unless you state other wise in your rules. You are making the claim and my job is to refute it. Unless of course you state otherwise in your r1 rules

I have no broken any of your 11 rules so you cannot say that ive somehow broken them.

And in response to the question. No. I dont think its selfish. Some might but your generalizing an entire population of women whose problems you dont know

Throughout this debate you have provided no sources to effictivley claim that having an abortion in the 2nd or 3rd trimester is selfish. The non-sourced claims have been rebutted by me. Not on that but you have been insulting and childish in R4

Vote Con
Debate Round No. 4
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Linkstart 1 year ago
Linkstart
Definitely voting for Con. You did 10x better then Pro.
Posted by Reformist 1 year ago
Reformist
Thanks!
Posted by DATXDUDE 1 year ago
DATXDUDE
Oh. Happy birthday then!
Posted by Reformist 1 year ago
Reformist
Lol my birthday was yesterday so now I'm 16
Posted by Reformist 1 year ago
Reformist
No problem man

I get a bit heated up sometimes too

If you want we can do a generalized debate like: Should abortion be legal or not?
Posted by DATXDUDE 1 year ago
DATXDUDE
You're right. I may have reacted too harshly. In fact, I almost certainly did. However, I need my viewpoints to be challenged to improve as a debater. I don't feel as if you did this. I am sorry that I overreacted, though.
Posted by Reformist 1 year ago
Reformist
What? Your interpretation is completely off base because I never did anything to break rule 3?

Don't be mad. That will just eat you up on the inside

Just let this go.
Posted by DATXDUDE 1 year ago
DATXDUDE
The supreme court interprets laws. Things they interpret can be incorrect. For example, their separate but equal ruling was incorrect, but it was still an interpretation.

If you don't get where I'm going with this, then I have nothing left to say to you.

You aren't smart enough to be 15. I can tell from your comments. Cut the act.

I didn't even take the time to read the rest of your comment. There's no way that you don't get spat on by anyone who sees what a pathetic waste of space you are. I'm not giving you one more second of my time. Goodbye.
Posted by Reformist 1 year ago
Reformist
No because rule 11 says you get to interpret the rules. But you cant possibly interpret the rules into your favor when I didn't even break it or attempt to break it

I again am not 12. I am 15

I don't have downs

I really don't understand why you are mad? Your agenda was to make the debate in your favor. But your opinion doesn't win you the debate........ your actual argument does. You used a bias source that is known for spewing conservative proganda and then you want to blame my sites? Lol
Posted by DATXDUDE 1 year ago
DATXDUDE
I'm a little bit frustrated that I wanted to have an interesting discussion and instead got a useless argument with a 12 year old that has downs syndrome.

I used a source, and it had more merit than both of yours put together.

Please tell me that English isn't your native language...

Note: Your third "sentence" doesn't matter. My rules exist how I want them to because of rule 11.

Now piss off, you pathetic stain on society.
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