The Instigator
9spaceking
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
thett3
Con (against)
Winning
48 Points

Mikal is the best debater ever OTHER than imabench

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 14 votes the winner is...
thett3
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/2/2014 Category: People
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,725 times Debate No: 51498
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (74)
Votes (14)

 

9spaceking

Pro

I argue http://www.debate.org...
is the best debater ever because of his insanely low lose rate and the number of debates he has won. (0ver 160! Oh my god! And losing merely one debate, and even THAT debate has only 5 point difference...)
I do not argue about imabench...the sheer number of debates he has is just...wow.
So make your argument about some other debater other than imabench! (how is that guy a troll, anyways? He's just this insanely good deabter.)
thett3

Con

I can disprove the resolution in two ways: By showing that there are debaters better than or equal to Mikal, hence rendering him not the best, or by showing that Mikal is better than Imabench. I intend to show both.


I. There are debaters better than or equal to Mikal on DDO.

Mikal in a PM with me openly acknowledged that Bluesteel and Raisor are as good, if not better than he is:




Mikal's own testimony on his abilities is going to be preferred over my opponents idolatry as he knows better than anyone of his own abilities.

II. There are debaters better than or equal to Mikal in the real world

Face it, while DDO has it's fair share of intellect, even if Mikal was the best debater here he still wouldn't likely be the best debater in the entire world. The resolution says Mikal is the best debater *ever* other than Imabench. I have a good deal of respect for Mikal and we are friends but I think it's safe to assume that better debaters have lived such as Socrates, Plato, Lincoln, William Lane Craig, Margaret Thatcher, and many many others.

III. Mikal is better than imabench

The entire logic behind my opponents arguments is that since he has a high ratio, Mikal must be the best. This implies that the only weighing mechanism to determine if someone is a good debater is wins. Mikal hs won against imabench[1]. Thus, the resolution is negated by my opponents own implied framework.

1. http://www.debate.org...
Debate Round No. 1
9spaceking

Pro


Ok, so...
  1. Mikal's acknowledgement -- he could be humble, for all we know! I could claim or "openly acknowledge" I'm a better debater than you, and that's obviously false! (because I know I stink)
  2. real world -- you have no proof that these guys are better than Mikal
  3. "other than imabench" -- I only typed this in the debate title so that nobody voted based on his popularity. Some debates, it's like a tie, and people vote for imabench because of his popularity. If you argued imabench was better it would be easy--seriously, he's a troll so he wins troll-debates, and even in non-troll debates, he uses really good sources and topics that are very hard to beat.
  4. "By showing other debaters...equal" -- If Mikal's equal with other debaters, they could be TIED as the best debater ever. Hey, it doesn't have to be a clear winniner!
thett3

Con

I. There are debaters better than or equal to Mikal on DDO

My opponents only response is: "maybe Mikal is being modest". This is a bad response for a few reasons: First, Pro *does not contend* that these debaters are worse than Mikal. It's one thing to disregard Mikal's testimony when we have reason to believe otherwise, but saying "hey, maybe he's wrong" is extremely uncompelling. Secondly, there are good reasons to believe that Mikal's assessment is valid. Both bluesteel and Raisor did real life debate and I know bluesteel at least has coached debate for many years. I encourage anyone who doubts the strength of these two to go read some of their debates, and you'll see why Mikal's self assessment is valid. Thirdly, Pro does not dispute that Mikal's word is the best way to weigh judge this as *no one* is going to know their own abilities more than the person themselves, not least a worshipper.

II. Real world

Pro claims I have no "proof" that these people are better debaters than Mikal, but let's get real. Socrates basically invented debate with the Socratic Method. William Lane Craig was described as so good that he "put the fear of God" into atheists. The Lincoln-Douglas debates over slavery were so good that a debate style has literally been named after them. In 2011, it was estimated that there have been around 107 billion people to ever live[1], so to assume that Mikal is the best debater ever when it's unclear if he's even the best on this website is just ridiculous. Active members of this site throughout it's history likely don't number outside the four digits, it's complete extrapolation to affirm the resolution and say that Mikal is better than all 107 billion other people to exist just because of this website.

III. Imabench

Pro argues that maybe imabench and Mikal are tied as the best debater. Unfortunately for Pro, that would still negate the resolution which says that Imabench is better than Mikal. Pro thinks the only way to judge a debater is by wins. Since Mikal has defeated Imabench and has a much higher win ratio, by Pro's own framework he's better.

The resolution is negated.

1. http://www.prb.org...
Debate Round No. 2
9spaceking

Pro

Well, this debate is certainly pointless and stupid, now that your point has been given across.
I concede.
thett3

Con

My opponent concedes, vote Con.
Debate Round No. 3
9spaceking

Pro

I do not wish to lose too badly. So, let's tie on conduct.
In the mean time see this hilarious debate: http://www.debate.org...;
thett3

Con

Extend all arguments, vote Con
Debate Round No. 4
74 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by BblackkBbirdd 2 years ago
BblackkBbirdd
Mikal is the best debater because if you type 'debate.org, and type in 'm', his name comes up
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
at the time thett3 accepted this debate, I didn't realize what kind of monster I was facing. :P
Posted by Fanath 3 years ago
Fanath
Apparently...
Posted by Mikal 3 years ago
Mikal
You throw my name in something you get views, apparently i am controversial.
Posted by Romanii 3 years ago
Romanii
Haha I remember Mikal saying something about his first major interaction on this site being a flame war with Sargon .
Posted by donald.keller 3 years ago
donald.keller
I didn't read the debate, but I'm 120% sure it was the Imabench part but screwed him up.
Posted by DarcKlaus 3 years ago
DarcKlaus
Mikal vs. Sargon

http://www.debate.org...
Posted by DarcKlaus 3 years ago
DarcKlaus
Sargon is the best ddo debater.
Posted by thett3 3 years ago
thett3
It got so many views because it somehow made it to the main page. I know, I don't get it either.
Posted by ScrinTech 3 years ago
ScrinTech
I seriously have no idea how this got so many views, Guessing it was because of Thett...
14 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by PipJeanTodd 3 years ago
PipJeanTodd
9spacekingthett3Tied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Con defeated Pro in all aspects. Pro's arguments were flimsy and Con's were thought out nicely. Con thoroughly proved Pro wrong.
Vote Placed by CheeseFries 3 years ago
CheeseFries
9spacekingthett3Tied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro concedes
Vote Placed by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
9spacekingthett3Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Concession... However I would like to point out that "Socrates, Plato, Lincoln, William Lane Craig, Margaret Thatcher, and many many others" all have a 0 Elo ranking, and when dug up for comment gave rather stiff replies.
Vote Placed by Wylted 3 years ago
Wylted
9spacekingthett3Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro concedes
Vote Placed by Defro 3 years ago
Defro
9spacekingthett3Tied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Arguments obviously go to Con due to Pro's conceasion. I normally don't judge spelling and grammar unless a spelling or grammar mistake catches my eye and bothers or distracts me from the debate. At the very end of round 1, Con spelled the word "has" without an "a". It really bothered me and I kept rereading the sentence over and over, hissing like a snake, amusing myself and being distracted from the debate.
Vote Placed by lannan13 3 years ago
lannan13
9spacekingthett3Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Concession
Vote Placed by Mikal 3 years ago
Mikal
9spacekingthett3Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: concession
Vote Placed by bluesteel 3 years ago
bluesteel
9spacekingthett3Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con successfully proves that I am better than mikal and that mikal is better than imabench. The resolution is therefore negated.
Vote Placed by johnlubba 3 years ago
johnlubba
9spacekingthett3Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro admitted that to continue arguing his point was stupid especially on the strength of Con's argument. Concession.
Vote Placed by Josh_b 3 years ago
Josh_b
9spacekingthett3Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: I'm giving a conduct point to Pro, but thett won the debate due to concession. Further RFD in comments.