The Instigator
Leonitus_Trujillo
Pro (for)
Losing
15 Points
The Contender
l2jperry
Con (against)
Winning
54 Points

Mike Hucakbee is the best Republican running for president.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/29/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,130 times Debate No: 1147
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (19)
Votes (23)

 

Leonitus_Trujillo

Pro

There is no better Republican Candidate out there right now.

Mike Huckabee is a true conservatist yet he knows when to compromise when the job needs to get done and he knows when to stand his ground, and his history as the Governor of Arkansas shows that. Thats not a negative thing but thats a positive thing. We don't know how the congressional elections will turn out, but if we get a stubborn president in office and a stubborn congress this country will go nowhere.

Mike Huckabee is not only the candidate to beat the Democrats he is also the candidate to unify an increasingly divided nation.

Mike Hucakbee has the most executive experience out of not only the Republican party, but also any other candidate running for president. So not only does he have more experience than any Republican candidate, but also has more experience than A democratic Candidate, which is something that pending he win the nomination will help him in his bid against the Democrats. Which goes back to the fact that he is the candidate to beat the democrat.

Mike Huckabee is pro-life , and has always demonstrated his record in being pro-life. Now to many this could iteslf be a negative, which is why I changed my original question that mike is the best candidate for president to mike is the best republican candidate fore president. Because if you a Republican, being pro-life is very important. And the other two of the other candidates have a bad track record of being pro-life. Mitt Romney was at one point pro-choice, and Guilliani was never fully pro-life, he things abortion is morally wrong but shouldn't be stopped.

I started another similar debate , but the person isn't answering .
l2jperry

Con

I am going to base my debate on this: Mike Huckabee is not the best Republican running for president, Ron Paul is.

I will start by responding to your opening, then I will list reasons why Huckabee is not the best candidate, and then list reasons why Ron Paul is.

Response to your opening statement:

1.) Mike Huckabee is a conservatist when it comes to social issues, however when it comes to fiscal issues and foriegn policy he is not so much a true conservative. (Points and sources will be made later.)

2.) As for his being able to compromise. I would like more information and sources please.

3.) Mike Huckabee does not have the best chance at defeating a democrat. This poll is from www.cbsnews.com. The poll shows...

U.S. TROOP LEVELS IN IRAQ SHOULD

Increase
11%
Keep the same number
17%
Decrease
26%
Remove all troops
40%

Although it is only one issue, it does question Huckabee's electability against a Democrat, seeing as how he is supportive of the Iraq War.

4.) Yes Huckabee garners the most experience as an executive leader because of his terms as a Governor, agreed. However, that is not a good reason to vote for someone. You vote for someone based on their policies.

5.) Mike Huckabee is in fact Pro-Life, and his record does back this 100 %. However, that will not win him any votes with social liberals. Again hurting his chances to win the white house against a Democrat. And about Huckabee's ability to compromise, do you think he'd be willing to "compromise" here? Although Ron Paul is Pro-Life too. He does not believe the decision should be made a federal level, and would leave it up to the states. By leaving it up the states, there is a better chance for change to be made.

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On to reasons why Huckabee is not the best choice for Republicans:

He is not a fiscal conservative by no means.

1.)He signed a sales tax hike in 1996 (Cato Policy Analysis No. 315, 09/03/98).

2.)Supported an internet sales tax in 2001 (Reuters, 02/23/04).

3.)Publicly opposed the repeal of a sales tax on groceries and medicine in 2002 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 09/11/02).

4.)Signed a gas tax in 1999 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 06/29/99)

5.)Signed cigarette tax hike in 2003 (Americans for Tax Reform 01/07/07)

6.)Signed a bed tax on private nursing home patients in 2001 (Associated Press 06/29/01).

7.)Proposed a sales take hike in 2002 (Arkansas News Bureau 12/05/02).

8.)Opposed a congressional measure to ban internet taxes in 2003 (Arkansas News Bureau 11/21/03).

9.)Allowed a 17% sales tax increase to become law in 2004 (The Gurdon Times 03/02/04).

All points and sources from www.taxhikemike.org. There are plenty more, but I think this is sufficient to at least make a point that he is not as conservative fiscally as he claims to be. Perhaps you could show me some tax cuts?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll now go on to talk about his foriegn policy.

He supports the War in Iraq. Everything aside, and I mean everything. I would like to know how he plans on paying for the war. The way I see it, regardless of anything, if we can't pay for the war we shouldn't be there. As Fred likes to say, "We are bankrupting the future generations of this country." Could it be that maybe we need to get rid of fiat money and cut spending? (Federal Reserve System, something only Ron Paul talks about)

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There are more, but this is enough to get us started. My point is virtually this: Mike Huckabee is not a fiscal conservative, the only thing seperating him from a democrat is his support of the war (which the majority of Americans want out) and his being socially conservative. For that reason, I think it's fair to assume that Huckabee would most likely lose to a democrat.

I'll wait for your response, and then possibly bring more arguements to the table on things suchs as immigration, and his proposed fair tax, etc. But in short his immigration has flip flopped greatly. And his fair tax would tax us just as much as the IRS!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
On to why Ron Paul is the best choice:

1.) He is a top-tier candidate and has raised WAY more money than Mike Huckabee, money coming from individuals. Money isn't everything, but money does talk, and that does say that nationally Paul has more support than Huckabee.

2.)Dr. Paul is anti-war, and voted against it from the start. We can't pay for the war, there is no objective, and we should just come home. The defence of America is better spent not going bankrupt.

3.)He opposed and opposses the Patriot Act.

4.)On immigration he is strong, and would take away the incentives that immigrants have to come over here illegally. Unlike Mike's plan that thinks building a fence will do any good. I say it's a waste of tax payers money.

5.)Pro-Second Amendment (As well as Huckabee, i'll give him that) Which does not make him better suited than Huckabee, but nevertheless equal.

6.)End the welfare state and government reliance.

7.)Ron Paul has NEVER voted for a tax increase. We can cut taxes by reducing the size of the federal governmentand fixing our foriegn policy, which is why Ron Paul opposeses many of the departments that Republicans used to oppose, like the Dept. of Education. Mike Huckabee supports it, and the No Child Left Behind Act.

I could go on, but i'm tired. I believe it's bed time. Besides, this is enough to get us started.

I would like to say though, that I do respect your opinion and would like see this debate stick to the debate. If i'm misinformed I would love to know. My main purpose is to gain some knowledge. So please if i'm wrong, deliver!

Thanks,

R.J.
Debate Round No. 1
Leonitus_Trujillo

Pro

Leonitus_Trujillo forfeited this round.
l2jperry

Con

I'll skip this round and wait for your response................................
...............................................................................
Wow, first you need 100 characters, and then you need to be more "grammatically" correct. lol.
Debate Round No. 2
Leonitus_Trujillo

Pro

To say that Mike Huckabee is a Democrat because he supports the war and his a social conservative , however he is a fiscal Liberal is just wrong. First of all logically that would make him mostly Republican. And second of all he isn't a fiscal liberal at all.
Those allegations come from the opposition as you yourself have proven by quoting them. Mike Huckabee's tenure of Arkansas show's exactly that he is a conservative on all fronts , which is a luxury that Ron Paul does not give his voters. Which is were experience comes to play, not just so we know your competent but to check your past record, so we can say how good have you done with the responsibility that you have given.

Ok so your first source is the CATO policy analysis. of his 1996 tax "hike"
Here's what the CATO report specifically says.
"Upon taking office in July 1996, Huckabee immediately backed a 1/8-cent sales tax hike to fund the Games and Fishing Commission and the Department of Parks and Tourism. The voters enacted that hike as a constitutional amendment in November 1996."
Now here's what the history books say.
80% of the voters in Arkansas s put it into their state constitution through a constitutional amendment, the governor didn't even get elected with that majority .

Your second source is Reuters on his support of an internet sales tax in 2001. Indeed the American for Tax reform noted that too in their 1/07/07 issue. They said
"Indeed, Governor Huckabee joined 43 other state governors in sending a "strong and unified message to Congress: deal fairly with Main Street retailers, consumers, and local governments"
Here's that message: "Governor Huckabee supported the federalist position of allowing the states-not Washington, D.C.-to decide whether sales taxes were collected from goods sold within an individual state. Why should the federal government be allowed to say that Amazon.com must be given a 7% tax break over a local Arkansas book store owner?" That doesn't sound like liberal to me. Its Republican small government, pro business pro competition stance.

Your third source is the Arkansas Democrat Gazette. Interesting how you use a Democratic article in its criticism of a Republican. But none the less It talks about his publicly stance against the repeal of a sales tax on grocery and medicine.
But the tax would make him an unconstitutional governor in the state of Arkansas. Because the state of Arkansas requires that the budget always be balanced- which means: no deficit spending. The repeal of that tax according to the Arkansas State Chamber of Commerce would see a loss of 160 million dollars to the state budget. Where would Huckabee get it from? who knows probably from cutting programs like Medicaid I think people on both sides can appreciate how he stands up for the people of Arkansas even when at first glance doing so will bring in criticism from other Republicans- because Democrats will always criticize him which is why its funny you pulled it from a Democrat Gazette.

Your fourth Source is the Arkansas Democrat Gazette…again, let me remind the voters of this debate that the topic is the best REPUBLICAN for president. Anyways the issue is on a 1999 gas tax.
Alright well let me ask you, some questions, that Huckabee asked the Club for Growth.

Do you believe that state tax monies should be used for infrastructure, such as roads, bridges, and highways?

Do the you believe that state tax monies should be used for education?

When, if ever, do you consider a tax ‘hike' to be legitimate

Do you believe in balanced budgets?

Ok so your Firth source is the American For Tax reform on the 2003 cigarette tax increase. We'll that was a doing of the Legislature and Huckabee decided to compromise and allow them to come up with the solution to another deficit projection. Here's were I'm talking about compromise. The Legislature again threatened to repeal the 1990 tax cut or find a way to get the money. Huckabee responded by letting the Legislature cool down and allowing them to find a reasonable solution. That way he could push his ARKids First plan which provided medical services for kids. Noted everywhere for being the best in the nation. Without dealing with the legislature like that he wouldn't have been able to improve or do what he wanted. And because the tax cut was reasonable pretty un-painful he allowed signed it.

Your Firth source is from the Associated Press on his signature of the Private nursing home taxe's.
See now there the problem was that low income patients weren't able to find bed's for nursing home's. The way the government helps them out is through Medicaid. But Medicaid was dry. So he allowed something that taxed private nursing homes that generated revenue so that Medicaid could pay for those that didn't have money to afford a stay in a bed in a nursing home. Per every one person that the tax applied to three elderly gents were able to get a bed.

Ok so your next (sixth) source is the Arkansas News Bureau on his proposed 2002sales tax.
Now keeping in line with Republican principals people need to get an education. If people get an education they can advance themselves by getting top tier jobs. More people with top tier jobs such as computer engineers, technical developers, and Businessman- the better for the Economy. Because top tier jobs specialize the country meaning top tier capital flowing around. Again hit with that Constitutional balanced budget issue, the Democrat Legislature worked with him to the 7/8th of a cent tax.

And your last one is my personal favorite. Its from the Gurdon Times on the 2004 17% tax increase.
Key word there buddy "allowed to… become law." Does anybody else notice something wrong with that? He didn't propose it or sign it, he allowed it to become law.
Here's what the Cato Institute says about it
"I n response to a COURT ORDER to increase spending on education, Huckabee proposed another sales tax increase, and the LEGISLATURE sent to him a smaller sales tax increase with a COPORATE FRANCHISE TAX to make up the difference. Huckabee let it become law without his signature"
Huckabee is in a position to compromise again, and he does it and this time they offer him a corporate tax. How is else is a Republican suppose to respond? Oh that's right he's suppose to veto it. He's suppose to be like Everyone's idle who with the exception of one vetoed every single bill that congress has passed since it turned Democratic. And wow! look how great we're doing the country is taking long strides.

Well I ran out of room, but that's ok, because Huckabee's record speaks for itself. Pushed through the legislature the first broad based tax cut in state history, he lead efforts to establish a Property Taxpayers' Bill of Rights" the list goes on and on including an $80 million dollar tax cut in 1997.

Because this post is my last one I had to cut out one of the refutations to make room for a point I wanted to make.
The first point I'd like to make is that 26+17+11=54 and that 26+17=43. And lastly that 43>40. This is my refutation to your statistics regarding the Iraqi war. Huckabee supports the Iraqi war and supports a progressive plan for withdraw. So that grabs him two categories mentioned in that report. both of them together beat the 40 % who oppose it. And if you had to make a choice between a person who wants to pull out completely and a person who has a progressive plan to leave when we're read, being a person who wants an increase in troop –who would you vote for? That grabs Huckabee that 11 %. Ron Paul wouldn't get anybody in those categories and be banking on that 40 %, except , I will go on a wild card here and say , that 40% group is mostly going to vote Democrat.
l2jperry

Con

First off, I never EVER said that Mike Huckabee was a democrat. All I said was that he was a good social conservative, but fiscally he isn't. That does not translate to Democrat at all. Although, he does act like one quite a bit.

Secondly, Ron Paul has a very long record as well serving 10 terms in the House. His record, however, is very consistent. When looking back at Huckabee's record you see nothing but inconsistencies.

For example, Huckabee called No Child Left Behind "the greatest education reform effort by the federal government in my lifetime." (Washington Times 03/01/05)Now, he denounces it and says...

"While there is value in the No Child Left Behind law's effort to set high standards, states must be allowed to develop their own benchmarks." - http://www.mikehuckabee.com...

1. Your argument for the CATO policy and history books is invalid because you don't give ANY sources.

2. As for the second argument on the internet tax, i'll buy that. Sounds fairly reasonable.

3. There is nothing wrong with using a Democrat paper as a source. I agree that their shouldn't be an ubalanced budget but A real fiscal conservative would have cut government spending in order to lower the taxes.

4. Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using a Democrat paper as a source. And it is not very conservative to support any tax increases! As for your questions, States get money from the federal government for roads and highways. That's why all states made the drinking age 21, because the federal government was going to take the money away, and yes I believe state's should use taxes for schools. But again, a real conservative would have found places to cut the spending, not create more taxes for increased spending. THAT IS NOT WHAT BEING CONSERVATIVE IS ABOUT!

5. Again, Again, and Again taxes do not help. Any time the government get's invloved things get messed up. What he should do was fight for what a true conservative position would have been, that would have been cut taxes, cut spending, give the people their money back, and let them give it to charity as they see fit. The people don't need government to tell them where their money is needed for welfare!

6. It's horrible to have to keep saying the same thing, but it still apples. The people should be allowed to keep their tax dollars and then in effect donate to give the nursing home the beds they needed. Not through stealing. Huckabee should have cut spending, as well as the federal government, and then Medicaid wouldn't have gone dry. The welfare state DOES NOT work, this is why the U.S. can't afford another fiscal liberal.

7. You've pointed it out yourself, he's a liberal conservative, he believes in taxing the people out of their homes, so that people can get an education. Brilliant. What is the point of getting an education if you can't even afford to live? Still, the main point is, CUT SPENDING, don't increase taxes. That's the alternative choice, and its the conservative choice.

8. You completely skipped this.

Opposed a congressional measure to ban internet taxes in 2003 (Arkansas News Bureau 11/21/03).

No thanks Mr. Huckabee, I want someone in office who will keep the internet tax free!

9. YES VETO IT DAMNIT! We don't need to compromise, we need the leaders to do what they say they are going to do, and let the process carry itself out.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank-you for the comment below, I was getting to that...

10. Huck's a member of the CFR, I don't really need to expand on that.

11. He flip-flops on immigration.

I support the $3 billion the Senate has voted for border security. This money will train and deploy 23,000 more agents, add four drone planes, build 700 miles of fence and 300 miles of vehicle barriers, and put up 105 radar and camera towers. This money will turn "catch and release" into "catch and detain" of those entering illegally, and crack down on those who overstay their visas. - Taken directly from his website.

Why waste tax payers money? TAKE AWAY THE INCENTIVES TO COME OVER HERE!

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Are you ready for the big one? EVERYONE PLEASE PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THIS ONE.

My opponent has stated that Huckabee favors a withdrawal from Iraq over time...

this is taken directly from the Huckster's campaign page...

Setting a timetable for withdrawal is a mistake. This country has never declared war until "a week from Wednesday," we have always declared war until victory.

AND

I am focused on winning. Withdrawal would have serious strategic consequences for us and horrific humanitarian consequences for the Iraqis.

Could you please re-evaluate those numbers?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Go Ron Go!

Paul Honored as "Taxpayers' Friend" for Tenth Consecutive Year

February 21, 2007, http://www.house.gov...

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Congratulations on your victory in Iowa nevertheless. However, for the sake of the country I hope the success is short lived.

(Oh and by the way, you didn't run out of space...because I still have 2,500 characters left, and you had a lot left as well)

-R.J.-
Debate Round No. 3
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by mjvoss 9 years ago
mjvoss
I didn't think you argued badly at all. There are a few Ron Paul supporters on this site as well as anti-Hucksters.
Posted by johncwms27 9 years ago
johncwms27
my mistake, I misread the argument...
Posted by l2jperry 9 years ago
l2jperry
I do support the withdrawal. Very much so, and I also am very supportive of Dr. Paul's humble foreign policy. I don't know where you misconstrued that. I am def. against the war.
Posted by johncwms27 9 years ago
johncwms27
R.J., Im surprised that you support Ron Paul and also think that withdrawal is the wrong option. Ron Paul is more supportive of withdrawal than any Republican, and even more so than some of the Democratic candidates!
Posted by Leonitus_Trujillo 9 years ago
Leonitus_Trujillo
what a horrible defeat 4-14? I didn't argue that bad.
Posted by sagarous 9 years ago
sagarous
Ron Paul is the best candidate...just that he couldn't get enough votes. >so sad<
Posted by Leonitus_Trujillo 9 years ago
Leonitus_Trujillo
I said that he supports troop withdrawl over time, I never set he supports a time table for withdrawl I stand by him saying we have never going to war until a week from Tuesday. He's basically saying he doesn't plan to have our troops there forever, we should start bringing them home little by little as we can, and if something big happens that we need to send them back, we will. The governor trust military commanders to make those decisions unlike President Bush. Bad enough he got us into Iraq, but he didn't even lisson to his generals that said we needed 400,000 troops, and we went in with 120,000 . We caused a huge lack of security and a civil war ensued. Whether you like the war or not you got to lesson to your generals, if your going to war at all that is.

Secondly the governor passed the most tax cut in Arkansas history, and want to see a coincidence he is 1 of 4 Republicans to ever hold state wide office probably the only one as Governor. So you can see the Difference between his Democratic predecessors and himself, if you can see the Difference he's obviously sticking to conservative principals.

This country is too much in an economic hole to vote in another super Republican who doesn't know what the price of milk is. Huckabee does, and his supporters know that, and if he has to go up against a Democrat they are going to be touting a pro-tax pro -socialized health care message, and people are going to like that because its give them some hope for their frustrated situation. Huckabee is a Republican he's against socialized health care, he wants to cut taxes, he wants to shoot the Federal budget in the face, but out of the Republicans his is the only message with some hope that reaches down to the day to day worried citizen. Besides besides clinton; Edwards and Obama have a strong campaign for the little guy, and thats why the one in Iowa, which one of our candidates says that? Not Paul, not Romney, If McCain does he doesn't emphasize it, -It's Huckabee.
Posted by zakkuchan 9 years ago
zakkuchan
Pro's last round was 7,730 characters, out of 8,000. So yeah, he basically did run out of room. :P
Posted by Keithinator 9 years ago
Keithinator
Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee suck but Huckabee sucks worse
Posted by zarul 9 years ago
zarul
Indeeed, Huckabee is the best Republican, he will ensure that they lose.
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