The Instigator
C-Mach
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
clsmooth
Con (against)
Winning
48 Points

Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul Should Drop Out for America's Sake.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/3/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,115 times Debate No: 2395
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (18)

 

C-Mach

Pro

I admire Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul, but they have to drop out of the race for America's sake. They have to so that Mitt Romney can win Super Tuesday, and John McCain doesn't. That would be horrible if John McCain won!
clsmooth

Con

I do not agree that Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul should drop out. Why? How will they cause John McCain to win the election? If people prefer Mitt Romney to John McCain and/or they're THAT worried about a McCain victory, then they are free to vote for Romney whether or not Huckabee or Paul are on the ballot. No one is going to be forced to vote for Huckabee or Paul -- they will do so freely. Romney does not OWN the votes of people who don't vote for McCain. There are plenty of Huckabee/Paul supporters (such as myself) who do not see any significant difference between McCain and Romney, and/or who may actually prefer McCain to Romney. McCain is certainly more honest and has stuck to his guns -- he is deserving of at least SOME respect for that. Romney, on the other hand, is a pompous elitist who switches his positions to appeal to the electorate. He is trying to buy the election, and people aren't interested.

Why should conservatives vote for a liberal Massachusetts governor who has a health care plan to the left of Obama's? What is Romney's position on the IRS or the Federal Reserve? It's the same as Hillary Clinton's.

The Republican Party is as good as dead. Perhaps from its ruins it can re-emerge as a TRULY conservative party, wherein neither McCain nor Romney would ever possibly have a chance of winning its nomination.
Debate Round No. 1
C-Mach

Pro

Unfortunately, I am going to sound pretty ignorant in the following statement, but am not.

Unfortunately, clsmooth, Mike Huckabee is a Front-Runner that can't win (Same thing with Ron Paul, although not a Front-Runner), and if people vote for him, them DUM-DEE-DUM-DUM-DUUUUUUUUM!!! gets into office (You all know what THAT means! JOHN MCCAIN!!!)!!! If John McCain wins the primaries, then DUM-DEE DUM-DUM-ERRRRRRRRRR!!! gets into office (Mrs. I'll-Do-Anything-To-Get-Elected, HILARY CLINTON (EVEN WORSE!!!)!!!
clsmooth

Con

Mike Huckabee won the Iowa caucuses by a large margin. He is the only representative of the "Religious Right" in this race. The Religious Right does not like McCain because he's a liberal, they don't like Romney because he's a flip-flopper (and a Mormon), and they're not sold on Paul because he doesn't want to legislate morality or launch a new round of Holy Crusades. The Religious Right is a valuable constituency to the Republican Party and Huckabee represents them.

Ron Paul is the only libertarian-minded candidate in the race. His supporters are hardcore conservatives; 100% against government interference in the economy or in the domestic affairs of foreign nations. Mitt Romney has said of Ron Paul that "he deserves to be laughed at" -- why the heck would a Ron Paul supporter turn and vote for Mitt Romney? If anything, they would go for McCain, who, like Paul, sticks to his guns (as opposed to Romney's flip flopping). McCain is also against torture, which is the one issue where he and Ron Paul agree. Paul and Romney agree on NOTHING.

Huckabee is having fundraising problems. Huckabee is staying in the race to fight for what he believes in, and even though I don't agree with it, I admire him. I admire his perseverance and commitment to his principles. And I admire the decorum with which he presents himself (unlike the chuckle-head frontrunners). His supporters want him in the race. Who is to say that a massive Religious Right turnout won't win Huckabee some delegates on February 5?

Ron Paul is NOT having fundraising problems. His people WANT him to run. They could care less if Romney or McCain is the nominee -- they are both liberal statists in the eyes of Paul supporters, no different from Hillary or Obama. Ron Paul's campaign is about spreading the message of TRUE, CONSISTENT CONSERVATISM for a next generation. It would be a betrayal to drop out of the race after his supporters have given him $30 million plus to spread the message.
Debate Round No. 2
C-Mach

Pro

I like Ron Paul the most actually, but he can't win. He is a strict constructionist, and I like that. Mike Huckabee wants to abolish the IRS, and I like that.

A lot Libertarians and Independents that registered as Republicans to vote for Ron Paul would NOT vote for John McCain (He is a liberal, and wants bigger government. Mitt Romney wants smaller government), so they have two options:

They don't vote.

They vote for Romney.

Actually, Mitt Romney actually has quite a large evangelical following. So, what's not to lose?
clsmooth

Con

What you're saying is untrue: Mitt Romney is in fact far more liberal than John McCain.

According to the National Taxpayers Union, McCain would increase government spending by $6.9 billion annually. Romney, on the other hand, would expand government spending by $19.5 billion a year -- almost three times as much! Source: http://www.ntu.org...

Furthermore, Romney was recently pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage, and disingenuously switched his positions. McCain has always been pro-life. And one area where Ron Paul libertarians actually AGREE with McCain is on the issue of torture, whereas they agree with Romney 0% of the time.

But this is irrelevant. Most Ron Paul supporters would not vote for either McCain or Romney under any circumstances. Many would prefer a Democrat, even, and others see no real difference between Romney, McCain, Obama, and Clinton.

Huckabee's supporters may prefer McCain to Romney. McCain has been consistently pro-life and he's not a Mormon.

Your argument is lame. If people want to stop John McCain at all costs, then they can vote for Romney whether or not Paul and/or Huckabee drop out.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by C-Mach 9 years ago
C-Mach
"RON PAUL FOR AMERICA!!

Ron Paul is the greatest presidential candidate. The only reason he isn't doing as well is because the mainstream media is censoring him. The country is run by people who are benefiting from your losses in tax money. They don't want the country to change because they are doing well. They make sure that Ron Paul hardly ever gets his name mentioned on any of the TV stations' news coverage and political followings.

The country is doomed..."

A-ROD, I completely agree with your statement.
Posted by C-Mach 9 years ago
C-Mach
"If all the people who thought like [C-Mach] actually voted for Ron Paul, then who's to say he wouldn't be #1?"

Everybody in the United States would have voted for him if they just read the Constitution. Unfortunately, most people:

1._ Have not heard of anything more than the 1st, 2nd, and
5th Amendments to the Constitution.

2._ Do not understand the 1st and 5th Amendments
completely.

3._ Have not read one of the most important sections of the
Constitution, Article IV, Section IV, which states that
we are a republic, not a democracy, and that we should
defend ourselves from invasion.

4._ Completely ignore the 10th Amendment, etc.

There.
Posted by blond_guy 9 years ago
blond_guy
Ron Paul never had a chance especially not in the Republican Party. He just has to keep talking to America and getting his voice heard so that in 2012 (if he runs again) people won't be like "who's Ron Paul?". If I were him, I'd take those 5 million he has left and put them into advertising. Just letting everyone know who he is.
Posted by Shorack 9 years ago
Shorack
C-mach.
To me, your main point is:
people should vote tactically.

Voting with the following outcomes in mind is one way to do it.
But some people put up with an other principle: the person who's idea appeal me the most get my support.

Both are valid ways to go to that ballot box.
Posted by C-Mach 9 years ago
C-Mach
I frankly like Ron Paul the most of any of them because he is a strict constructionist. I would vote for him in a hot second if he had a chance of winning.
Posted by A-ROD 9 years ago
A-ROD
RON PAUL FOR AMERICA!!

Ron Paul is the greatest presidential candidate. The only reason he isn't doing as well is because the mainstream media is censoring him. The country is run by people who are benefiting from your losses in tax money. They don't want the country to change because they are doing well. They make sure that Ron Paul hardly ever gets his name mentioned on any of the TV stations' news coverage and political followings.

The country is doomed and all elections are rigged.
Posted by clsmooth 9 years ago
clsmooth
Sure. There are many "Religious Right" who9 support Romney. When I worked for Ron Paul, our most dedicated volunteers were home-schooled conservative Christians.
Posted by mikelwallace 9 years ago
mikelwallace
just for clarification, not ALL of the "religeous right" are narrow minded bigots and discriminating against Romney because he is Mormon, just the ones that make the rest of the group look bad.
Posted by clsmooth 9 years ago
clsmooth
If all the people who thought like C-Match actually voted for Ron Paul, then who's to say he wouldn't be #1?
Posted by TheSloth 9 years ago
TheSloth
Who the hell are you to tell me who I'm voting for when I cast my vote for Ron Paul?

Its not my fault Romney version 3.0 hasn't had the success of previous models.
18 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by blond_guy 9 years ago
blond_guy
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