The Instigator
Leonitus_Trujillo
Pro (for)
Winning
19 Points
The Contender
TheLibertarian
Con (against)
Losing
18 Points

Mike Huckabee is the best Republican candidate.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/27/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,328 times Debate No: 1051
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (13)
Votes (13)

 

Leonitus_Trujillo

Pro

Hello ladies and gentlemen. I would like to bring fourth a truth. I have done extensive research into this candidate, and have concluded that he is the best Republican candidate. I have seen other similar debates on the site, but I don't think they've done a good job.

So I would leave a very vague opening argument that allows for my opponent to have a leg up, and I'll debate from there.
TheLibertarian

Con

TheLibertarian forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 1
Leonitus_Trujillo

Pro

skip.

This people make you write 100 characters.....stilll not there yet. 25 to go, mabye If i spell twenty five. There that does it.!
TheLibertarian

Con

TheLibertarian forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Leonitus_Trujillo

Pro

Wow well my opponent didn't bother to argue this debate, but no points either way were made, and crap I just realized there are four rounds.

Well whats left is to make one point.

Mike Huckabee is the most viable candidate coming out with a victory in the Republican Iowa Caucus. And if I end up being wrong on that I invite you to use it against me, but I know I am right.
TheLibertarian

Con

First off, I would just like to apologize profusely for not arguing earlier, as I was in Tampa, and did not have access to the Internet. If you wish to start a new debate with the same topic so we can have a serious debate about it, I would be more than happy to participate.

Now, onto my points:

First off I would like to mention Mike Huckabee's domestic policies that he would like to enact. One of the most notable policies of his is a new FairTax, a system which would eliminate income tax, raise sales tax, and incorporate a 23% import tariff. All three of these actions would be detrimental to America's economy, as a sole retail tax is one of the most regressive tax systems known to man, and would only strengthen the gap between rich and poor. In addition, the massive tariff he wishes to enact would greatly harm our foreign policy, and would only cause America to become that much more isolationist in this current global market.

In addition, one only needs to look at Huckabee's sketchy past as governor of Arkansas to see how he would only be an atrocious president. One key example of this was the massive amount of rapists and murderers he pardoned as governor. A great deal of these pardoned criminals went on to commit more crimes, and there has been a great deal of controversy when dealing with these issues.

My last point deals with his massive desire to in essence go against everything the First Amendment stands for, and have America be a Christian nation. By putting up the Ten Commandments in all courthouses and in essence lying about our founding fathers, Huckabee is turning our nation into a theocracy, and one that has no freedom fo religion and only oppression and totalitarianism

So, no, I do not believe Huckabee would be the "best" republican candidate at all.
Debate Round No. 3
Leonitus_Trujillo

Pro

Well thank you for your effort I do note that you are a libertarian and you guys are rather forceful to say the least on your views.

Huckabee has executed 16 criminals more than any other governor in his state has had to and 16 times more than anyone else running for president has had to. If your implying that he's soft on crime he is definitively not. Percentage wise Huckabee turned down the majority of over 80% of the people who applied for clemency's - not pardons. You have to understand that he did not give out pardons only clemency's which is just lighting the sentence, he in no way allowed a criminal to escape justice all together. A clemency is a petition to the governor to have your sentence reduced, and in Arkansas law every person ever convicted of a crime that is serving or will serve it may apply. Yeah thats a lot so much that he had to make a board to just review them all, and the ones that made it to him from the board, he looked at every page scrupulously and made a fair decision.
Based upon what was fair for the people, now what was best for his political career. Compare that with governor Romney who's state makes it incredibly difficult to file a clemmency and when an Iraqi war veteran was able to quality he turned him down. He was applying for clemency for a misdemeanors he commuted when he was 13 that was preventing him from joining the police force. The man shot another kid with a bb gun and the pellet didn't even break the flesh. He goes off later to serve in Iraq as a sergeant, comes home wants to join the police force can't applies for clemency to get this ridiculous thing overturned and he is turned down. You got to ask , did Romney act out of what was best for his constituents - or what was best for his political career?

Thats what we are getting with Huckabee a person who is looking out for us. We got to send a candidate to the general election who can beat a Democrat. These Democrats are alls saying they ill fight for the little man, John Edwards more so with his very angry anti-corporation message. But if we send 250 million dollar Romney, or Fred Thomas Bush the Third, we are not going to win this election.

Huckabee was the first Republican governor in Arkansas history 1 of 4 Republicans ever to win state wide office. He has a history of up hill battle against the Democrats- and Winning. He is someone the party needs for this election coming up. Bush has put us in a bad pposition, we're at the bottom of the hill and Huckabee has been there before.
TheLibertarian

Con

First I will argue my opponent's claims, than deal with the question at hand.

First, my opponent said how I accussed Huckabee of being "soft on crime" and that he did not take any part in pardons. First off, he did pursue a great deal of pardons, in fact twice as many as all three of his predecessors combined (http://www.foxnews.com...). I am pretty sure that one who would do this may in fact not be the most stringent crime fighter. You also claimed that, unlike Romney, Huckabee is for his constituency. However, one of the most notable pardons that Huckabee issued involved a rapist who was sent to jail, than after being pardoned, killed an innocent woman. Now, I may not be a politician, but I am pretty sure that in essence allowing one of your innocent constituents to be killed may in fact not be the best way to gain support for your voting base.

In addition, he says how no other Republican can even come close to beating a Democratic candidate. However, I am going to argue that John McCain can in fact do just that. As shown recently by his massive success in New Hampshire, McCain can garner swing voters, and those who may be Republicans, but do not know which candidate to support. In addition, he has been shown a great deal of times in Congress and in the 2000 election to be able to work with Democrats to find a solution, and find a way for America to succeed. In addition, while Huckabee's rampant religious rants may swing some evangelicals, there are far more Republicans who wish to deal more with substance, and they find this in the straight-talking McCain.

Now to actually deal with question and end this debate: "Mike Huckabee is the best Republican candidate." In other words, the nomination of Huckabee would be best for America. I disagree with this statement and say that there are in fact two better candidates on the right, McCain, as I have stated earlier, and predictably (by my tag, by my beliefs, by the guy it actually says I support in my profile etc.) Ron Paul.

I feel that the main things that are wrong in America today are the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the economy, Illegal Immigration, and most importantly, our MASSIVE draconian and obscene exchange of liberty for security.

With Ron Paul, we get a non-interventionist foreign policy, which will not only help opur foreign economy, but help us prevent future wars, such as one with Iran, and end those we are already taking part in.

With Ron Paul, we get a man who will bring us back to the time when our economy was at it's peak, our GDP was through the roof, and we were the capitalistic center of the world.

With Ron Paul, and his 100% voting record with FAIR (Federation for American Immigration Reform), we get a man who will help end, through a border fence and tighter restrictions, illegal immigration once and for all.

And finally and most importantly, with Ron Paul, we will end the barbaric Patriot Act and all other violations of our liberty, finally making our nation the one our fore fathers wanted it to be, and help bring America back into the international limelight, and as the massive success it once was. Thank you

P.S. I'd also like it if you didn't offend me on my political belief, and if you want to have a debate concerning libertarianism, and why it is a far better option than true conservatism, I would be happy to oblige. Thanks
Debate Round No. 4
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by haab2178 9 years ago
haab2178
also doing his tax thing would require amending the Constitution and its not practical. also he is too religious, i mean he is a minister. his faith might get in the way of running the country
Posted by cody30228 9 years ago
cody30228
Wait, did I read correctly?
"FairTax, a system which would eliminate income tax, raise sales tax, and incorporate a 23% import tariff. All three of these actions would be detrimental to America's economy"
Really?
One, the elimination of a sales tax would be a compromise between the two parties from taxing the rich more or taxing the rich less. This is the most viable solution
Raise Sales Tax
this fixes the problem of illegal immigrants not paying sales tax. This also makes drug dealers pay taxes.
Tariff
Not sure how this would work. And neither do you. Why? Because throughout history, a tariff like this had different reasons before. Such as help factories.
Posted by alexthemoderate 9 years ago
alexthemoderate
Well, sorry to you, but although I'm not that old either (just turned 20) I know that traditional Republicans (like Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, and others, were about SMALL GOVERNMENT and not about dictating if a homosexual could be married or not, they were environmentalists, they were social progressives, they were limited government.

Pro-life is a large governmental incursion into people's lives. No one denies that. Huckabee is the biggest pro-lifer on the campaign trail.

You want to talk traditional politics? Know the traditions.

A traditional Republican would be someone like Rudy Giuliani, someone who socially believes that government should stay out of people's lives (and bedrooms) and that the market can solve a lot of problems on its own.

Huckabee has shown that he doesn't really trust the market and that he thinks that the Bible is true--word for word--and therefore, we need to inject it into the Constitution, thus overturning 200 years of religious freedom.

Hmmm...

I looked over some of the other things that you said, and while I was able to piece together what you said despite many typing confusions...

Reagan didn't have a ton of foreign policy experience, I will give you that. However, he was Governor of California, a major industrial state that deals with major security issues, racial riots and disputes, and trade issues.

Arkansas is not California. Not in population, not in size, not in resources, not in diversity, not in almost everything(No offense to people from Arkansas).

I think you need to realize that Republicans as well as Democrats are not what they used to be before the Civil Rights Movement.

Huckabee, would be, AT BEST, a carbon copy of George W. Bush before 9/11 (big government conservatism, supported by the religious right).

The Republicans need to drop the big-government Conservatism of George W. Bush and get back to the limited reach scheme that made them what they are today.
Posted by Leonitus_Trujillo 9 years ago
Leonitus_Trujillo
Sorry buddy Huckabee is down and out traditional Republican.He's not trying to fight the left he's trying to fight for America and thats something that Reagen stood for. He can't be exactly like Reagen because the issues we're facing our different. But I'm not old enough to remember and I don't know if you are , but you can look it up -Reagen's biggest criticism that everyone liked to dog on him for is his lack of Foreign policy experience.
Posted by alexthemoderate 9 years ago
alexthemoderate
And the part where I said 'the partisianship of Huckabee' was a typo. I meant to say "the partisianship of the parties themselves." Whoops. I misrepresented my own views there. Yikes.
Posted by alexthemoderate 9 years ago
alexthemoderate
Please don't misrepresent my viewpoints.

And don't misrepresent your own either.

Huckabee's tax cuts were on those that were close to the poverty line. He is a fiscal moderate, perhaps liberal. He's no Reagan, and that's the guy that is the prototypical Republican nowadays. He's the spirit that they want to rediscover. He's the guy the others are compared to. Huckabee is no Reagan.

By the way, you can check--I'm not a hardcore Republican either. I'm a moderate (thus the name) and simply an observer of the partisianship of Huckabee.

Personally, I don't find Huckabee to be the worst of the Republican choices, despite his committment to overturning Roe v. Wade, which I disagree with on a policy level.

PAY ATTENTION TO THIS: I don't disagree with some of the points you are making about his record on immigration, healthcare, and experience (10 years as an Executive is something I talked about--that's a good thing!).

I'm just trying to make corrections about what I said. I don't think he is a radical Republican on anything ECONOMIC, however, when it comes to SOCIAL issues, his pro-life standpoint makes him someone that I'm uneligible (due to personal conviction) to vote for as a candidate. Other than his overreaches of church and state, I think he would be a great candidate if you threw in some foreign policy acumen. But he does see a path for church IN state, and he has extremely limited foreign policy experience, among the least.
Posted by alexthemoderate 9 years ago
alexthemoderate
I literally went to Great Lengths to point out that I didn't think Huckabee isn't a radical Republican. Wow.
Posted by Leonitus_Trujillo 9 years ago
Leonitus_Trujillo
alex let me point out that you are incorrect. Huckabee isn't a radical republican and thats a plus becuase if Fred Thompson for example one the nomination everyone will vote against him for fear of another Bush Repeat.

Hucakbee is a small Business conservative. He supported that internet tax be regulated on the state level not the federal level, thus making internet stores compete with local stores. So Amazon.com doesn't have an advantage over the local Borders. Competition and small government is a Republican staple and thats something that Huckabee clearly supports.

He supporterd the first broad based tax cut in Arkansas History and you know what he's not a hypocrat and if that distinguish him from many Republicans than so be it, He may not do excellent in the Primaries but if he win's he will appeal with most Americans. See Huckabee is pro-life but he wants to help that life from the time it's born until it is an adult, and then after it becomes an adult still give it opportunities. To him you shouldn't be pro-life unless you provide a means for that child to have health care for free until he's 18 , or a suitable environment -unless you support that he says you should be pro-choice and that would put a lot of Republicans in that category.

Huckabee has great foreign policy experience. He worked hard to improve Mexico-US relations - expediting the opening of a Mexican embassy in Arkansas, and created one of the most comprehensive state-foreign polices in the US which Time Magazine acknowledged in their article naming him one of the top Governors in the country.

And the very fact that we can look at his record to criticize/applaud is the reason why 10 years of executive experience is important and a definite plus in a Presidential Candidate. I would put his experience over that of a one term senator *cough* Barack Obama.
Posted by alexthemoderate 9 years ago
alexthemoderate
First of all, this is a completely subjective argument, and therefore not really a 'yes-no' question.

But at any rate...

Mike Huckabee has never worked for the National government. He has held a position as an executive in government (10 years as Governor of Arkansas). He was known for bipartisian values (negotiating ARKids health care program, raising taxes for social programs--NOT Republican ideals) and for getting things done. I still couldn't support him because he is a social conservative who desires to legislate morality (an ethical dilemma if you ask me!), however, I would like to say that he is not as conservative as some of his opponents on a lot of issues.

Huckabee, according to his record, is not a small government Republican. Furthermore, he has no foreign policy or homeland secuirty experience of a major area, something that the Republicans value (voters that rank national security as their #1 concern tend to vote Republican).

Bottom Line: Huckabee is not a classic Republican, nor is he going to appease both the free-traders and the social conservatives that are bound together by their usual Republican ties.

My assessment: If Huckabee gets the nomination, the free-traders and economic conservatives may be pressed into not voting for him, while social conservatives would have their guy. He is more conservative economically than almost all of the Democrats, however, a lot of Republicans are sick of the social conservatives taking over their party (social con's represent about 40% of the Republican party base).
Posted by lowandwet 9 years ago
lowandwet
No no no...I would say the Republican Party is an irrational party if it does not believe the process of evolution occurs. Huckabee does not believe this process occurs; thus, he is irrational and ignorant of over a hundred years of scientific theory.
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