The Instigator
TheCategorical
Pro (for)
Losing
35 Points
The Contender
pcmbrown
Con (against)
Winning
38 Points

Military conscription is unjust

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/12/2009 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,201 times Debate No: 8604
Debate Rounds (1)
Comments (3)
Votes (11)

 

TheCategorical

Pro

I need help with the natl's topic... If anyone can help me with my case not just by attacking it but by helping me build it up and other things. I also require someone who is very good at LD

Resolved: military conscription is unjust

Military Conscription: compulsory or involuntary service directed to aid during times of conflict predominantly in the military.

Compulsory: Mandatory and coercive or enforced order.

Justice: A moral duty.

V: Justice
VC: Maximization of possible freedoms
Since the resolution is based upon involuntary military service whether it be active or stationary it should be deemed important to note that the negation of this resolution invariably robs one out of options. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for military service but forcing individuals to risk life and limb to help their country is no longer justice. Under my criterion of maximization of possible freedoms compulsory military action is condemned not because military action is bad, but because it is compulsory.

Contention one: Compulsory Justice is no longer justice.
As I stated earlier I am all for military service, only if it is voluntary. The problem with a draft is that it robs us of an option to negate. Even if we save the country, the world, the universe, it is no longer justice. It is an action out of fear for retribution and as it can clearly be seen, fear does not constitute justice. Again, allowing the people to do whatever they want is not a constituent of justice either. This is why the affirmative position is based upon practicality. We must still enforce the law even if we know compulsory enforcement is wrong. The affirmative does not advocate a military draft but as fate may see it for practicality it is necessary HOWEVER IT IS NOT JUST.
a: Fear doesn't constitute justice
As the European philosopher Kant stated, Good Will is that which is intrinsically good. Therefore it must be derived from duty and a sense of justice than inclination and fear. So, to commit to be just one must want to do justice because it is the right thing to do not because one is forced to. A military draft is followed because of fear from retribution from the government. The government may fine you or put you in jail. Whatever the case military service is compulsory and thus enforced. Any citizen fearful of retribution will enact the draft. Operating out of fear is not justice. Justice is made up of good will a sense of duty but not fear.
pcmbrown

Con

Alright, as it's only one round, I won't post an opposing argument, and simply critique the case instead. If you find the criticism to be effective, vote Con.

"Justice: A moral duty." You need legitimate definitions. If you wish to use this one, provide a source. Otherwise, default to Aristotle's of "giving each his [or her] due". Moral duty and justice are not one and the same.

Criterion: First off, you never properly linked your V/VC, which is necessary for a legitimate case. Second, maximal freedoms can't achieve justice. Maximal freedom is only present in a state of nature. In a state of nature, you can't achieve justice. You need a VC which can be achieved without totally abandoning any sort of society.

Contentions:
"It is an action out of fear for retribution and as it can clearly be seen, fear does not constitute justice"
Fear isn't necessarily unjust...You must demonstrate that it is.
"Again, allowing the people to do whatever they want is not a constituent of justice either."
Maximal freedoms inherently mean allowing any behavior. You actually destroy any link between your V and VC with this statement.
"it is necessary HOWEVER IT IS NOT JUST."
If the draft is necessary, your opponent can demonstrate that it achieves justice for the civilian majority, and permits a legitimate system of justice to exist. DO NOT concede the necessity of military conscription.
"a: Fear doesn't constitute justice"
You're not supporting your criterion, and supporting a flawed definition of justice.

Find a legitimate definition if justice.
Find a practical VC.
Link the two.
Support your VC. Your value should be supported indirectly by the VC.
Find warrants. If you can't warrant your claims, the case is illegitimate.

If you want further criticisms, feel free to message me.
Debate Round No. 1
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by alto2osu 7 years ago
alto2osu
Meh- justice is fine if it's defined right. It isn't, here. Morality is a bogus anchor for justice because morality is so subjective, esp. when it comes to something like military conscription.

However, I would consider rethinking the value anyway, simply because there are better values to serve your purpose in the long run.
Posted by Sniperjake1994 7 years ago
Sniperjake1994
Several things first:
1. No specific warrants (quotes)
2. No impact
3. So what about justice as a value? What does that do? What's the impact? I suggest something more narrow. In Nat'l most cases are unpredictable. For example in the Vigilantism topic, someone had a case on domestic violence.
4. No source for definitions. Your opponent can easily win that crucial part because the resolution's wordings is very small.
5. What's the point of a subpoint a? You don't have a sub b. It makes you case looked stocked on random arguments rooting for numerous values rather than focusing on your AC value.
Suggestions: Go for something narrow and unexpected because the resolution is too broad. The case needs to be a bit longer. And don't place any restrictions on this website. It prevents other LD debaters from helping.
Posted by Sniperjake1994 7 years ago
Sniperjake1994
That could be me but I'm busy. Sorry.
11 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by atheistman 7 years ago
atheistman
TheCategoricalpcmbrownTied
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Vote Placed by tribefan011 7 years ago
tribefan011
TheCategoricalpcmbrownTied
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Vote Placed by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
TheCategoricalpcmbrownTied
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Vote Placed by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
TheCategoricalpcmbrownTied
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Vote Placed by happypanda 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by alto2osu 7 years ago
alto2osu
TheCategoricalpcmbrownTied
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Vote Placed by Larsness 7 years ago
Larsness
TheCategoricalpcmbrownTied
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Vote Placed by slobodow 7 years ago
slobodow
TheCategoricalpcmbrownTied
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Vote Placed by EmyG 7 years ago
EmyG
TheCategoricalpcmbrownTied
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Vote Placed by TheCategorical 7 years ago
TheCategorical
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