The Instigator
Fictional_Truths1
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
imabench
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

Minecraft is more realistic than normal life

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
imabench
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/23/2013 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,934 times Debate No: 35008
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (20)
Votes (3)

 

Fictional_Truths1

Pro

First round is for acceptance only. Pro will say that minecraft is more realistic than normal life (life outside of a game), Con will say it is not.
Debate Round No. 1
Fictional_Truths1

Pro

First of all, let me clarify that I am onlyh referring to single player and LAN survival mode. Let's begin :)
And when I say realistic, I mean in attitude, accepted beliefs, and day to day practices.

1. Gathering resources
In minecraft, gathering and using resources is a step-by-step, methodical process. You cannot skip any steps. You must first gather the correct raw materials (wood and more wood), craft them by yourself in a structual way, and then use that tool (pickaxe, shovel, etc...) to mine better resources, and continue the process. When a tool runs out, there's no insurance company. You have to build another one. This is what being realistic is all about. The currency in minecraft is rare, you need hard-to-get tools just to mine it after you find it, and even then, you need to find a village. The currency's value is assured because of how rare and hard to obtain it is. In normal life, you can get any resource you want if you can print something 3/100ths of the value of the thing you're going to get! It's faith based, and an illusion.

2. The world is accepted as ever expanding
In normal life, we assume we know everything about the Earth. We've always assumed that. We assumed that we are the center of the universe. Even now, most of us believe that some omnipotent sky wizard made the entire universe just for us. How is that realistic? The best known theory besides omnipotent sky wizard is Big Bang. The universe magically appeared out of nowhere! In Minecraft, their is a clear, concise theory: It just is. We don't know everything, and can't know everything. That's pretty realistic to me.

3. Evolution holds up
In normal life, even though humans have had no need for broad intelligence for a while now because of easier life, and things have been focused on strength more, we still maintain our intelligence. In Minecraft, evolution actually works. Steve (the man you play as) is evolved as intelligent, strong (he can break wood apart with his bare hands!), and resourceful because of all the monsters, and it stays that way only because of the monsters. In Minecraft, mankind staying intelligent actually makes sense. Intelligence serves a purpose, instead of lingering on for no evolutionary reason.
imabench

Con

Minecraft cannot be more realistic than normal life...... Because the only game more realistic then normal life is MARIO KART

Things that happen in Mario Kart that are more realistic then Minecraft:

1) Mario Kart teaches you that life is unfair

Anyone who has ever been hit by multiple blue shells in one race knows what Im talking about



2) In Mario Kart you have friends and enemies

In Minecraft you fly solo for your whole life and almost never see anybody else, not very realistic.



3) There is no God in Mario Kart

This relates back to argument number 1 but is also its own argument since in minecraft you sort of are a God whereas in Mario Kart there simply is no God.... Of those two which seems to be more plausible in reality?



4) Some people are just naturally sh*tty drivers

Asians, Old people, Girls, all of them are awful at driving much like some of the characters in Mario Kart... Minecraft doesnt have that



5) There are tons of different cars you can drive

They have tons of cars and different models in Mario Kart which is remarkable similar to how is it in reality, but the same cannot be said for minecraft.



6) Abilities/Powers

As the game progresses, people in Mario Kart find out they have abilities or 'powers' that are unique and they can use to better themselves or to make their opponents look bad, causing the driver to rise through the rankings and make great achievements in life.... In minecraft it doesnt quite work the same way.

================================================================

Those are my opening arguments, I would like to point out that the pro worded the resolution wrong though, the Resolution should be: 'Minecraft is more realistic then Mario Kart', I only noticed it after I had accepted the debate, so my bad

Back to you Pro ;D
Debate Round No. 2
Fictional_Truths1

Pro

'1"Mario Kart teaches you that life is unfair"
Anyone who has been sneaked up on by a creeper in Minecraft knows that this applies their to, only in minecraft, you loose all of your items and die, so a creeper is like an extreme version of blue shells. Creepers also can blow up on you at any time, as opposed to blue shells which only blow up when you're in first place, the one with the advantage. Since imabench is a liberal, I don't see how he can reasonably argue that taking away the advantage from someone in superior standing is unfair. Also, what imabench fails to recognize is that while Mario Kart teaches that life is unfair, it is unfair in the wrong classes favor. In real life, the people in the front get all of the nicest items because rich people can buy the nicest items,like guns, bullets, and nukes, while the ones in the back, the poor, pretty much stay where they are. This is not true in Mario Kart. In Mario Kart, the people in the front somehow cannot get the good items, while the people in the back can. This is simply not how the real world works.

2. "In Mario Kart you have friends and enemies"
In Minecraft you can go on a LAN server with friends, and you have enemies like monsters. Also, the principle of enemies sometimes becoming friends happens in minecraft, because skeletons will kill hostile spiders before coming after you, much like the Taliban beat the Soviets before coming after America.

3. "There is no God in Mario Kart."

I specifically said that the resolution only applies to survival mode. It is true that you are god-like in Creative mode, however this has already been ruled out, and imabench cannot claim to have missed that part of the resolution since he has already admitted that the only misunderstanding was with the "normal life" part of the resolution, because of which, with anyone else, I would've asked for a seven point victory, but because he's everyone's favorite troll, I took it in stride :)

4. "Some people are just naturally sh*tty drivers"
While this is true in Mario Kart, in Mario Kart sh*tty drivers don't get in wrecks that total their car, they don't get fines even when speeding through pedestrian zones such as coconut mall, toads factory, and delfino plaza. Also, when in rainbow road, even though it is in outer space, gravity still magically exists.

5. "There are tons of different cars you can drive"
Not really. For each character, their are 20 cars maximum if you look at the games with every cart on the roster. This is unrealistic because they have no methods of obtaining those cars, and no way to refuel them or maintain them, while in Minecraft, there are health bars, hunger bars, and armor bars which have to be maintained in good condition to survive.

6. "Abilities/Powers
This is a false-analogy fallacy. In Mario Kart their are multiple different species, each with their own culture and traditions, while in Minecraft their is only one species, and it is an undeveloped place, so of course everyone wouldn't discover their talents., they are too busy surviving in a realistic world.
=====================================================================================

Now that I'm done with rebutting imabenches points, I'm going to make some arguments of my own since imabench oh so graciously switched the topic.

1. Obtaining vehicles
In Mario Kart, everyone magically has vehicles that happen to be perfectly related to their personality and backstory. In Minecraft, you have to find the necessary supplies and power to make an automated vehicle.

2. Invisible walls (including the fourth)
In Mario Kart their are invisible walls and constraints within a track. Then you go to a gaming abstraction called a level select and character select. How is that realistic? The answer is it's not.
3. Relationships
In Mario Kart, all of these Arch-Rivals ( Basically, every good guy verses every bad guy) get together for a friendly game. There is no sabatoge by Bowser, no kidnappings, no nothing. You would expect that at the very least a fight would break out. This is an unrealistic portrayal, considering the backstory these characters have. In Minecraft, these problems are avoided, and their are no plot holes because their is no plot, just like in real life, there is no destiny, there is no destined meaning, just like in real life, the meaning is what you choose to give to it.
4. Texture packs
While some may say that changing how the world looks is unrealistic, I beg to differ. Humans can only percieve three primary colors (red, blue, and green), while many other species such as butterflies and mantis shrimps can see colors that we cannot even fathom or make a name for. A mantis shrimp sees 16 primary colors. Minecraft never claims that Steve is a human, so it leaves it up to interpretation. Who are we to dicate what he sees? Having players dictate what they think the world looks like through Steve's eyes is a lot more realistic than gaming developers setting it in stone when they cannot actually get inside of the mind of the player. It adds realism to the game by showing how reality is subjective, just like real life, everytihng is different depending on perspective.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I have negated imabenches arguments and put forth some of my own. Your turn ;D
imabench

Con

1) Life isnt fair

"In real life, the people in the front get all of the nicest items because rich people can buy the nicest items,like guns, bullets, and nukes, while the ones in the back, the poor, pretty much stay where they are. This is not true in Mario Kart. In Mario Kart, the people in the front somehow cannot get the good items, while the people in the back can. This is simply not how the real world works."

Giving benefits to the poor while leaving the rich out on their own is literally how the Democratic Party in the US tries to run the country. Giving the poor a means to climb out of poverty by taking some luck/wealth away from the rich is kinda the basis for socialism. In minecraft there is no entity that limits how much money you can make and what you can spend it on by taking some of it and using it to help those who are poorer and other things.

Minecraft is essentially an anarchist state while Mario Kart is a borderline nanny-state, which makes Mario Kart slightly more realistic then Minecraft.



2) In Mario Kart you have friends and enemies


"In Minecraft you can go on a LAN server with friends, and you have enemies like monsters"

Minecraft though can be played online with friends or completely solo whereas Mario Kart pits you against friends and foes all the time. You cant simply choose to have the world revolve around you like in Minecraft.



3) No God in Mario Kart


"I specifically said that the resolution only applies to survival mode."

Round 1 was acceptance only. The argument is still valid since you pulled the classic douchebaggy move of waiting to add absurd terms and limits into round 2 after the debate was already accepted and begun which is a tactic that voters will not uphold since it is considered terrible conduct.

You cant get rid of the creative mode in minecraft just because it blows a huge hole in your arguments... It makes up roughly half of the entire game and it is still a valid argument for how unrealistic minecraft is to real life since you can go into God mode which you cant do in real life.

:)



4) Some people are naturally sh*tty drivers

"While this is true in Mario Kart, in Mario Kart sh*tty drivers don't get in wrecks that total their car, they don't get fines even when speeding through pedestrian zones such as coconut mall, toads factory, and delfino plaza"

In minecraft you dont get arrested for killing people either or defacing others property, but the point stands that there are naturally sh*tty drivers in Mario Kart and in real life whereas in minecraft you dont....



5) Number of cars to choose from

"For each character, their are 20 cars maximum if you look at the games with every cart on the roster.....in Minecraft, there are health bars, hunger bars, and armor bars which have to be maintained in good condition to survive."

First off you dont even have cars in minecraft if you dont download the mod for it which is beyond realistic..... Secondly the cars are powered by coal and charcoal which is even more hilariously unrealistic...... And lastly, what in the hell does hunger have to do with cars????



6) Abilities and powers

" In Mario Kart their are multiple different species, each with their own culture and traditions, while in Minecraft their is only one species"

Thats way off topic but another point that only favors Mario Kart.... There are many different kinds of people with different backgrounds, different cultures, and different lifestyles....

As for the actual argument which pro didnt even address, in the game people get actual things called powers that they can use to accel in life, which is something Minecraft doesnt have since everyone is exactly the same.



7) Obtaining vehicles

"In Mario Kart, everyone magically has vehicles that happen to be perfectly related to their personality and backstory."

1 They 'magically' have their own cars because they OWN THEM. 2) In Mario Kart you have general karts that are available to people based entirely on their size, they are not perfectly tailored to their personality and backstory.

" In Minecraft, you have to find the necessary supplies and power to make an automated vehicle."

And when was the last time anyone ever built their own car entirely from scratch exactly???



8) Invisible walls

"In Mario Kart their are invisible walls and constraints within a track."

In minecraft you can carry lava in a bucket and not have it melt through the bucket.... There are plenty of unrealistic quirks in Minecraft as well as Mario Kart so in those terms, its about even.

"Then you go to a gaming abstraction called a level select and character select"

In real life there are things called 'video games' where people choose their characters and levels all the time....

See, I can be annoying about meaningless details too :)



9) Relationships

"You would expect that at the very least a fight would break out."

People get hit off of the road and blown up all the time, how does that NOT count as fighting?

"In Minecraft, these problems are avoided, and their are no plot holes because their is no plot, just like in real life, there is no destiny"

Oh please... Life does have a plot, and it goes something like this:

Youre born, you go to school, you have homework and tests, you get a job, you pay taxes, you get into a relationship every once in a while, you find one you like and you get married with a 50% chance of it not working out, you work a couple of other jobs in life, yatta yatta yatta, then you die.

Life kinda does have a plot, people only get to choose the details as they go along.



10) Texture packs

"While some may say that changing how the world looks is unrealistic"

Just about everybody can agree that it is....

"Minecraft never claims that Steve is a human, so it leaves it up to interpretation."

He looks pretty human to me....
http://www.blogcdn.com...
http://media-mcw.cursecdn.com...

"It adds realism to the game by showing how reality is subjective, just like real life, everytihng is different depending on perspective."

There are things that can be perceived differently yes, but changing the natural color of large parts of the world on a whim is pretty impossible to do and not that realistic whereas in Mario Kart you have close to zero control of how the world looks, which is very similar to real life.

===============================================================

Minecraft and Mario Kart certainly have some unrealistic characteristics to them, but here apart from those listed above, there are several other things that makes Mario Kart mroe realistic then Minecraft

1) In Mario Kart people dont have square heads....
2) In Mario Kart not everyone is the same size, shape, etc
3) In Mario Kart you have Italians, blondes, brunettes, babies, donkeys, magic mushrooms, banana peels, etc

Dammit im out of characters
Debate Round No. 3
Fictional_Truths1

Pro

I'm asking Con to not post anything in the last round, since Pro didn't make an argument based on the edited resolution in round two, and Con did.

1. "Life is unfair"

My argument still stands that Minecraft also teaches you that life is unfair. Also, imabench fails to recognize that most Democrats are in fact rich, so even if they ran the country (which they don't, check the house of representatives), that would only strengthen my point more. What we actually have is a split government, where the only thing everyone has in common is that they are rich people supported by rich corporations and lobbyists. Also, just because the rich in the real world want to give minuscule handouts to keep people complacent doesn't mean that they lose all of their advantages, or that the poor replace their position at the top in a few days with a magic miracle item. In Mario Kart, the person in last place can catch up to the person in first in a few seconds. This is enormously unrealistic. Furthermore, there is no entity in Mario Kart which limits the amount of money made either.

Mario Kart has no state at all, it simply has magic miracle items that allow the people in last to get to the top even without government interference. This is enormously unrealistic.

2." In Mario Kart you have friends and enemies"
You cannot choose to have the world revolve around you in Minecraft at all! Considering that it is an infinite world which you can only see a finite amount of, the notion that the world revolves around you in minecraft is absurd! Also, in Mario Kart, there are no true "friends and enemies". It is just team battles. They are games. Nothing more. In Minecraft, your life is in danger from your enemies while your friends help you survive. In Mario Kart, everything is just a game. This is not realistic at all.

3."No God in Mario Kart"
imabench hypocritically tries to condemn me for stating a new condition in round two even though he changed the entire resolution in round two after accepting in round one. If imabench denies me the right to change something in round two, then this debate must end in a tie because he changed the entire resolution in round two, so we both violated the rules. If imabench accepts his behavior as perfectly fine, then he must also allow my minor edit. Also, when imabench changed the entire resolution he did not in any way complain about the survival mode edit, so we must assume that he was fine with it. With that in mind, the omnipotent factor is nullified because creative mode is not considered in the debate.

4. Some people people are naturally sh*tty drivers.
This also defeats imabenches first argument/rebuttal "life is unfair" because he concedes that their are no fines or penalties for hurting people in Mario Kart. Because of this, Mario Kart cannot be existing inside of a borderline nanny-state, or their would be regulation about street racing in pedestrian areas. However, since Mario Kart has been proved to be an Anarchist state, it would make sense to have no driving regulations, just like in Minecraft it would make sense to have no penalties for killing everyone.

Also, the structure of government compared to real life is irrelevant, because when imabench changed the resolution, he changed it to "Minecraft is more realistic then Mario Kart", not 'Minecraft is closer to normal life than Mario Kart.' Therefore, Pro must prove that Minecraft makes more logical sense, and has better cause and effect relationship than Mario Kart, instead of proving that Minecraft is more similar to real life. As such, their is no reasoning behind Mario Kart having naturally shitty drivers, and having naturally sh*tty drivers does not support pro or con, and has nothing to do with the debate.

5. Number of cars to choose from
Mods are not unrealistic, since minecraft is an indie game which allows for such mods to take place. In other word Minecraft is built for mods, as said by the founder and owner of minecraft. (http://notch.tumblr.com...). Because Minecraft was designed with mods in mind, being able to download them does not violate any causal relationship, or plot lines, or anything else, and since this debate is not about similarity to real life (see above), mods are completely within the boundaries of being realistic.

Coal and charcoal powering cars is not unrealistic. There is energy stored in those items just like there is in oil and gas. Trains have run on coal for a long time (https://en.wikipedia.org...), so I do not see how cars running on the same principle is unrealistic. While this debate still is not about similarity to real life, it still is about the game making sense, and since the game borrows that substance from real life, we must take what we know about that substance from real life.

6. Abilities and powers
First off, it being off topic only strengthens my point that Con had made a false-analogy fallacy in pointing out all of the different powers. Also, it is not many different kinds of people. It is a group of many different sentient species. Minecraft not having a variety of powers when there is only one unidentified species you can play as doesn't make any logical flaws or plot holes, so I don't see what the problem is.

7. Obtaining vehicles
Where is this proof of ownership? How do we know they haven't stolen it? Particularly the evil ones? How do we know the Karts weren't rented to them by their respective kingdoms? The answer is that we don't know because it is unexplained. It is a plot hole. As for the general carts, that doesn't address my argument at all. It simply states that they have an alternative to the cars that they magically have.

As for the "building from scratch argument", the point I was trying to make it that you know how the car got there. It didn't magically appear. Even a cutscene would serve the same purpose.

8. Invisible walls

What Con fails to mention is that the buckets are made of iron, which has a higher melting point than the average temperature of lava, much less a vaporizing point . (http://www.universetoday.com...), (https://www.google.com...) . Again, even though the debate is not about similarity to real life, it is about making sense, and since lava and iron are both substances found in the real world, we must take the data from those substances and apply them to minecraft.

I'll concede the gaming abstraction point because there is no real way to argue it either way, and it doesn't support either Pro or Con.

9. Relationships

"People get hit off of the road and blown up all of the time"
Again, friendly competition. No evil guys bringing outside items into the track.

"Life does have a plot"
If you can define that as a plot, then I could say Minecraft has a plot as well.

You spawn, find some wood, make a crafting table, make a wooden pickaxe, find some stone, make a stone pickaxe, find coal/firewood, make a shelter, make a furnace, survive on food, mine, mine, mine, mine, find a cave, find some iron, make iron tools/armor, make a bow, mine deeper, find diamond, make diamond tools, mine some obsidian, build a nether portal, go to the nether, make more potions and enchantments, kill a sh*tload of endermen, use the ender eyes to find the
End portal, go to the End, kill the EnderDragon. That's the ultimate goal, everything you decide to build and how you go about mining are just details.

10. Texture Packs

"He looks pretty human to me."
Con fails to mention skins. There are enormous amounts of skins that can change how you look from a human to a humanoid figure with alien eyes. (http://www.minecraftskins.com...). Since you can change the eyes so much, why not change what they see? Again, not about simarity to real life, just about making sense.








imabench

Con

Ah f*ck it, this debate sucks anyways

If you're going to send me a troll debate challenge then treat it like a damn troll debate, I don't like burning brain cells arguing seriously over something stupid, that's what high school is for.
Debate Round No. 4
20 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Fictional_Truths1 4 years ago
Fictional_Truths1
*with the exact same arguments would LOSE
Posted by Fictional_Truths1 4 years ago
Fictional_Truths1
Anyway its fine I predicted I would lose this debate no matter what happened simply because imabenches reputation for winning debates that anyone else with the exact same arguments precedes him. If I debate you again, benchman, I will be sure to just troll the living sh*t out of it.
Posted by Fictional_Truths1 4 years ago
Fictional_Truths1
sorry we both posted at the same time. Anyway, all of your arguments were serious, other than you changing the topic. I was fine with changing the topic though, and took it in stride. And you are the one that changed it from "closer to normal life" to "more realistic than". I exploited that for semantical purposes, which is a trollish thing to do. Didn't you notice most of my rebuttals were based on that semantics change? Also, I never asked for conduct points. I was simply pointing out that if you want to complain about me ignoring creative mode, and stating that in round two, then you must also complain about you accepting the debate and changing the entire resolution.
Posted by Fictional_Truths1 4 years ago
Fictional_Truths1
Plus you're seriously going to complain about semantics with me when he change the whole debate?
Posted by imabench 4 years ago
imabench
You can't use troll semantics while at the same time trying to redefine the resolution every round, try to use shady tactics to get conduct points, and actually use serious arguments in a 'troll' debate... That's literally the exact opposite of trolling
Posted by Fictional_Truths1 4 years ago
Fictional_Truths1
It's a troll debate bro. That's why I used troll semantics. Did you even read it?
Posted by wrichcirw 4 years ago
wrichcirw
Given:

A = "game life"
B = "real life"
A =/= B

The resolution argues that A = B, and that B =/= B.

Arguments CON.
Posted by jdog2016 4 years ago
jdog2016
I made a special private forum for the trolls of DDO.
http://www.debate.org...
Posted by TrotskyistRebel 4 years ago
TrotskyistRebel
4711, this is a troll debate. By trying to use logic on troll debaters like imabench is merely feeding the trolls. So don't take his arguments seriously, just read them and chuckle to yourself. I personally think this debate is really cool, and imabench is always a hilarious troll.
Posted by 4711 4 years ago
4711
Agree with awood
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by jarret 4 years ago
jarret
Fictional_Truths1imabenchTied
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Total points awarded:14 
Reasons for voting decision: con is soo right
Vote Placed by utahjoker 4 years ago
utahjoker
Fictional_Truths1imabenchTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: The topic of the debate was changed during the debate but con have up in the last round
Vote Placed by wrichcirw 4 years ago
wrichcirw
Fictional_Truths1imabenchTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: A priori false resolution.