The Instigator
JohnJohnSHTOOKAH
Pro (for)
Losing
5 Points
The Contender
ConservativePolitico
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

Mitt Romney is "out of touch" with the American public

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
ConservativePolitico
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/10/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,581 times Debate No: 22711
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (4)

 

JohnJohnSHTOOKAH

Pro

It is my contention that former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney is out of touch with the American public and as a result will become a "John Kerry candidate" in the 2012 general election.

By referencing John Kerry I'm referring to the presidential campaign back in 04' where he essentially could not make the case to voters he was a legitimate candidate who cared for their interests. (That includes the flip flopping he and Mitt both share)

That being said, I would like someone to perhaps prove me wrong.
ConservativePolitico

Con

I accept.

Out of touch - a person who is not attuned, sympathetic or knowledgeable of the lives of average people

Since no real points were made Round One I expect that it was for acceptance only.

Make your case.
Debate Round No. 1
JohnJohnSHTOOKAH

Pro

Will do.

I have three reasons as to why I am convinced that Mitt Romney is an "out of touch" candidate.

1.His wealth
While politicians are indeed wealthy, most do not have their personal net worth attached to their identity. With a net worth of roughly $200 Million dollars, boasting a nice Swiss bank account, Romney whether he likes it or not has been given "the rich guy image". His acquisition of this wealth was done so primarily with his work in a private equity firm (A sector in this country that doesn't have the greatest image currently). Having the identity of a obscenely wealthy person paying only 15% of their income in taxes doesn't exactly vote well for your chances of being deemed a "man of the people". Moreover it doesn't exactly help his cause to reach out to voters in order to validate his legitimacy with comments like the "$10,000 bet" blunder to Rick Perry. No matter how trivial Romney's comments on the campaign trail may be, if it feeds into his already "out of touch" narrative, journalists will have a field day over it. Which should tell you something about Romney's image.

2.Lack of political conviction
People love a die hard candidate, one they truly can relate to. (Just take a look a Ron Paul supporters..) Let's face it, consistency isn't really a word you would use to describe the former governor's. He even has a website dedicated to his contradictory statements of the past. (http://www.mittromneyflipflops.com...) I'm sorry make that two websites.. (http://mittromneysflipflops.com...) Romney has been on opposite sides of not just one or two issues but a boatload of them. Including topics such as the Auto Bailout, Abortion, Guns, Stem Cell Research, Minimum Wage, Social Security to Climate Change Legislation.. You get the point.

3.The very way he runs his campaign
If you've been fallowing the republican primaries you probably have been growing tired of hearing Gingrich and Santorum list their grievances with the Romney campaign. That of course would be that they were outspent and drowned out by a flood of 100% negative ads. Do you know why the Romney campaign went completely negative? It's because for months republican voters have been in search for the "anti-romney" candidate, somebody who not only could beat Obama, but lead the nation as a true conservative. So by spending millions in negative advertising, the Romney campaign successfully changed the dialogue from "Why are we settling with this guy" to "Ehh, we need to beat Obama." If all of his political success rides on the public angst for his opponent it says something about his own ability to win a tough election. The democrats thought that wasn't a big concern in 2004 when they were coasting off of the public's disapproval of Bush. The republicans may just be in for a surprise come November..

Sources:
http://www.boston.com...

http://www.lasvegassun.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
ConservativePolitico

Con

I will try and cut through the bulk of this "argument", which was mostly commentary and get down to combating your points.

1. His Wealth

"most do not have their personal net worth attached to their identity"

- I don't know what you mean by this. The only reason his net worth is "attached" to his "identity" is because the media made such a big deal about it. Every president's net worth was either known at one point or easily accessible to the public. Some things are just common knowledge such as: Bush owned the Texas Rangers, Reagan was a movie actor, the Kennedy estate was worth hundreds of millions. There have only been a small handful of presidents whose net worth has been less than a million. Barrack Obama's net worth is 5-10 million dollars, why isn't he considered out of touch?

Presidential Net Worth List: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

"Having the identity of a obscenely wealthy person paying only 15% of their income in taxes doesn't exactly vote well for your chances of being deemed a "man of the people"

-
In case you didn't know, most of Romney's worth is tied up in investments. Whenever an investment makes money in the United States you pay a rate of 15% on that money. Therefore, Romney when paying "only 15%", is merely a man paying his taxes. No average man part of the ambiguous group "the people" pays more money on their taxes than they owe. Just because Romney pays taxes doesn't make him out of touch. If anything it sounds like you have a problem with the capital gains rate which is a different debate.

2. Lack of Political Conviction

First off any website titled mittromneyflipflops can hardly be considered a legitimate unbiased source of information.

Secondly, no one is perfect, everyone slips up and contradicts themselves. Mitt Romney is not a young man, he's had decades to say things and then say things later that might possibly contradict something he said previously. This isn't a crime and heaven forbid he should change his mind.

Anyways, this doesn't make him out of touch for a main reason: 40% of Americans now identify as independent. [1] Independent voters do not stick to one set of dogmatic beliefs like liberals and conservatives do which would actually make him more agreeable in the eyes of independents which now outweigh liberals (31%) and conservatives (27%) [1] by a significant margin. So while the occasional mind change or bad comment might not be good for someone looking for a cradle to grave ideologue, the willingness to change opinion and be open to new ideas as situations evolve would actually put him in good graces with independents.

3. Campaign

Again, I don't see how this alienates the people. Smear campaigns have been run since the start of American history. Andrew Jackson's opponent ran ads calling his wife a whore. In fact, John McCain refused to run a negative ad campaign against Obama and he lost while Obama ran a heavy negative ad campaign against McCain and won. History shows that negative ads do not alienate people and they are just a familiar feature in the political landscape.

A. Businessman

Romney ran a successful business for many years so he understands the economy. Since he was in business (unlike Obama) he knows how workers work and feel and what they expect. He can sympathize with the plight of the average worker. He knows what a bad economy means to businesses and to average people. He knows how employers feel and how investment companies are operating right now. This would actually put him very in touch with the main issue on the American people's minds right now which is the economy.

[1] http://www.gallup.com...
Debate Round No. 2
JohnJohnSHTOOKAH

Pro

Quick rebuttal

Maybe you chose to not really read my opening statement of the debate, but it was my contention that Mitt Romney is and will be a "John Kerry candidate". In relation to his vast amounts of wealth, terrible sound bites gone wrong, and lack of political conviction. Like you've said, something's are indeed considered to be common knowledge and for Mitt Romney its that he's a tremendous flip flopper and has more money to shake a stick at. As for the point I made about his taxes.. While yes he merely was fallowing the rules set in place, I'm telling you I doesn't vote well for his political image one bit. Independent voters who look at that will say he made how much and paid WHAT? Again, feeding the idea that Mitt Romney is out of touch.

Clearly a website titled "mittromneyflipflops.com" wasn't exactly appealing for you to look at being that he's the very guy your currently defending. Had you actually looked at BOTH of those sites you would've discovered neither of them feature 3rd party commentary or analysis. So your valiant effort to shut down biasness might just be a tad misguiding considering they after all just romneys past statements..
ConservativePolitico

Con

"While yes he merely was fallowing the rules set in place" [sic]

A man following the tax rules is hardly something that makes him out of touch with the American people. You admit yourself he was just paying the taxes he owed. There is nothign wrong with that.

Independent voters will look at him and say he made WHAT? And paid...? Oh the amount he owed, good for him.

Your Sites

Not only do your sites provided show clear and present bias "romneyflipflops" but merely shows unsourced quotes by Romney which could or could not be present or out of context.

Businessman

You completely dropped this argument.

So far I have seen no convincing arguments showing how Romney is out of touch with the American people.

You had the Burden of Proof and didnot fulfil this.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by JohnJohnSHTOOKAH 4 years ago
JohnJohnSHTOOKAH
Well well well....
Posted by JohnJohnSHTOOKAH 5 years ago
JohnJohnSHTOOKAH
I screwed up.....
Posted by JohnJohnSHTOOKAH 5 years ago
JohnJohnSHTOOKAH
Quick rebuttal

Maybe you chose to not really read my opening statement of the debate, but it was my contention that Mitt Romney is and will be a "John Kerry candidate". In relation to his vast amounts of wealth, terrible sound bites gone wrong, and lack of political conviction. Like you've said, something's are indeed considered to be common knowledge and for Mitt Romney its that he's a tremendous flip flopper and has more money to shake a stick at. As for the point I made about his taxes.. While yes he merely was fallowing the rules set in place, I'm telling you I doesn't vote well for his political image one bit. Independent voters who look at that will say he made how much and paid WHAT? Again, feeding the idea that Mitt Romney is out of touch.

Clearly a website titled "mittromneyflipflops.com" wasn't exactly appealing for you to look at being that he's the very guy your currently defending. Had you actually looked at BOTH of those sites you would've discovered neither of them feature 3rd party commentary or analysis. So your valiant effort to shut down biasness might just be a tad misguided considering they after all just Romney's past statements..

Now I was under the impression that Mitt Romney's record of flip flopping was pretty much INDEFENSABLE. But if you wish to mask that as as a sense of "open mindedness" Romney posses and by that he doesn't buy into partisian politics I would have to disagree with you. Particularly in this upcoming when he has already proclaimed to be (and has been) "severely conservative". A claim like that opens his record to a special kind critisicism. While you may argue that perhaps his critics may be taking some of his statements out of context, (I personally don't know how considering it's on film) here's a couple of well documented flops.
On abortion
http://www.politifact.com...
On immigration, guns and cl
Posted by JohnJohnSHTOOKAH 5 years ago
JohnJohnSHTOOKAH
This will be a pretty tight, time frame here. Gunna be on a couple o flights mm I shall do my best to finish up meh
Posted by JohnJohnSHTOOKAH 5 years ago
JohnJohnSHTOOKAH
Good documentary on the 04 election. http://www.imdb.com...
I digged it idunno check it out
Posted by ConservativePolitico 5 years ago
ConservativePolitico
And Obama isn't?
Posted by airmax1227 5 years ago
airmax1227
Incumbent presidents naturally always have an upper hand.. John Kerry did make a good number of mistakes though.. He got "Swift boated", and he nominated John Edwards, perhaps the worst VP nominee of all time in retrospect.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by 1Historygenius 5 years ago
1Historygenius
JohnJohnSHTOOKAHConservativePoliticoTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: The resolution contradicts because Romney is an American citizen and is thus not "out of touch" with the American public. So Romney cannot be out of touch with himself and that is why I believe this was actually a poor debate. Getting on to the reasons on why I voted is because Con was able to refute Pro and not have his own arguments refuted and Pro used obviously biased sources.
Vote Placed by THEBOMB 5 years ago
THEBOMB
JohnJohnSHTOOKAHConservativePoliticoTied
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Total points awarded:25 
Reasons for voting decision: Con successfully refuted Pros arguments and established his own unrefuted claim. Pro used a website biased against Romney to make an argument...against Romney. EDIT: the two points to begin countering LKs VB. Con never brought anything you said up...
Vote Placed by Lordknukle 5 years ago
Lordknukle
JohnJohnSHTOOKAHConservativePoliticoTied
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Reasons for voting decision: The resolution stated that Mitt is "out of touch" with the American public. The "American public" are the public citizens that comprise America. Mitt Romney is an American citizen, and hence part of the American public. Mitt cannot be out of touch with himself, ergo a contradiction form. A contradiction states that one (or multiple) premise(s) is false, in this case the entire resolution. Resolution contradicts=Con win.
Vote Placed by Contra 5 years ago
Contra
JohnJohnSHTOOKAHConservativePoliticoTied
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Total points awarded:32 
Reasons for voting decision: Poor arguments on both sides, though PRO pointed out the Romney is far from the middle class and hardly relatable, while CON basically said he was a businessman which helped him understand the plight of workers. No...