The Instigator
WannabeMusketeer
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
big_chief90
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

Mitt Romney vs. John McCain: Romney is a better choice for the Republican nomination.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/6/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,347 times Debate No: 2454
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (12)
Votes (6)

 

WannabeMusketeer

Pro

Former Massachusetts Governor, Mitt Romney, is the best choice for the Republican Presidential nomination. He has the experience as a business man and in the realm of business as a whole to lead America out of it's economic low. He can bring America's economy to it's golden ages. He is also an overall good conservative on all the issues that are important to the hardcore conservative base of the party. He also has the leadership skills, seeing that he has already lead a state in the eecutive branch. John McCain is barely a Republican, let alone a conservative. He doesn't connect with the conservative base, and more times than not compromises the party's position to side with the democrats. His views are very liberal on many issues, and doesn't have the leadership qualities we need in the next four, and possibly eight years. Lastly, he;s hardly the face of the Republican Party we'd like to have in this crucial election.
big_chief90

Con

big_chief90 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 1
WannabeMusketeer

Pro

Well, since my opponent hasn't responded with an argument of his own, I'd like to take this time to address recent events in the Romney campaign. As we all know he's dropped out of the race. He made his announce and the PAC convention, citing the fact that it isn't about him. He ran because he loves America and feels instead of fighting with McCain, it'd be better for America if he let McCain unify the party in order to defeat Hillary or Obama in November. Although I'm a huge Romney supporter, I do not plan to cast a vote for McCain, he is not what the Republican party represents. I will protest him to the convention floor in St. Paul and if need be until inauguration day. DO NOT VOTE MCCAIN!
big_chief90

Con

Ok, I apologize for not posting a statement in the first argument. School has been crazy this week. Let's start off by taking a look at Romney as a person. He is a Mormon, a group in which many people believe is a cult. Now, I do not like attacking one's personal life; however, with the false attacks on Obama, I believe people will make this into a huge issue with Romney as well. Again, I do not hold it against Romney that he is Mormon. I'm just saying that some voters will look down on this.

Let's look at abortion. Romney claims that he is against Abortion, however, as Governor of Mass., he failed to overturn the law that would make it illegal. He voted for the abortion law, even though he claims that he does not support it. Hmmm. Seems like we have a little liberal voting in Mr. Romney.

Many Americans do not believe that our Government should put bans on some of our guns; however, even though Republicans are generally non ban kind of people; Romney believes that some bans should be put on guns that are available. I personally agree with this, but he would lose some votes on this issue. Also, this "life long hunter" turns out not so much of a life long hunter. Strike 1 for some voters.

Same Sex marriage- After he left Mass. Same sex marriage was officially recognized. This man claims that he supports a traditional marriage; however, In 1994, he opposed the federal marriage amendment and promised to help establish "full equality for America's gays and lesbians." In 2002, he provided legal recognition to same-sex couples in Massachusetts, even though he was not required to do so under a state Supreme Judicial Court ruling, as he has suggested. As governor, he even threatened to fire officials who would not issue same-sex marriage licenses and perform civil ceremonies. Yet, now, in 2007, he miraculously supports the federal marriage amendment.

Also, just look at how the states were falling during the primaries. Most voters wanted McCain or Huckabee. In his own state of Massachusetts he got only 4 more delegates that McCain.

I have only chosen to go over a few of the issues. I will post more as the debate goes along.

We have to look at the big picture here. McCain has an excellent shot at being our next President. I am a Democrat, and it hurts me to say that he has a great shot. McCain is not the most conservative guy out there; however, he is a hell of a lot more conservative that Mitt. McCain has the experience to run the country. He is a former POW and this touches many people. He has the ability to steal away votes from the Democrats and sway votes from the independents with is stance on certain issues. There are many voters out there that do not want to vote for a woman or a black man, and it bothers me to say that; but it's true. There are also a lot of voters out there that won't vote for a Mormon as well. So, we have to face the facts. A McCain/Huckabee ticket is the best choice to get another Republican in the White House. With those two teaming up, they will reach many voters on the voting spectrum and have the ability to make a strong campaign.

I look forward to debating further Romney issues with you, and I look forward to reading your response.
Debate Round No. 2
WannabeMusketeer

Pro

First of all Romney's religion, the Church of Latter Day Saints, usn't seen as a cult as it used to be. Obama's religion, united church of Christ, hasn't been a major issue what-so-ever. In fact 80% of those who voted for Romney classify themselves as conservatives. So obviously there is no predjudice against Romney's religion and has not affected his support.

When running for Governor, Romney stated that Massachusetts was a pro-choice state and wouldn't seek to change that. He simply wasn't going to go into a place where people supported abortion and change it. This is America...we are a democracy. He wasn't going to be a dictator. Since 2002 he's classified himself as a "pro-life Governor" and has said that abortion "cheapens the value of human life." Also failing to oppose or veto a law doesn't mean he voted for it...I thinki we must recap on our study of the branches...executive doesn't vote on laws...legislative does.

McCain on the other hand straight out said, "I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade, which would then force X number of women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations."

McCain has recieved a C- in voting from the NRA and an F from the Gun Owners Assocation. Romney is actually a member of the NRA and has said "I support the right of individuals to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the U.S. Constitution" He supports a ban on some assault weapons...but fully supports the right to bear all other arms.

Governor Romney has always been against Same-sex Marriage. He supports that homosexuals do deserve not to be discriminated against and do deserve rights. He has even testified in Congress in support of traditional marriages. When the Massacusetts Supreme Court ruled in favr of Same Sex marriages, Romney was very vocal about his opposition, even attempting to block the decision. He reluctantly supported a marriage amendent that would ban same sex marriage, but allow civil unions. He opposes both and tried to push to ban both. However, he had to choose which hed raher want unions or marriages. He picked the lesser of two evils: unions. That last fact is a lie. He's been supporting the Federal Amendment since 2004!

Romney actually won over 50 percent of the vote in Massachusetts and won by over 10%. He lost caucus states due to political games by the McCain and Huckabee campaigns.Romney still had a lot more delegates than Huckabee, so to say more people wanted Huckabee is another lie.

From what I see you're not much of a Conservative. Seeing as you're a Democrat and are nting McCain's credentials and bashing Romney actually calling him less conservative than JOHN MCCAIN!!! That's chapter 1 of How To Talk To a Liberal...NEVER TRUST YOUR ENEMIES! Sir...i'll leave it to a conservative to tell me their opinion on whether or not Mitt Romney is a conservative,not a liberal! If Stalin or Clinton ran as a Republican, that doesn't mean they're a Republican. I know Republicans and John McCain is certainly no Republican! He actially had the nerve to go into the house that Reagan bulit and say that Reagan would support him. Reagan is our party's model and Ronald Reagan was a Great Conservative and McCain is no great conservative...he's no conservative at all.
big_chief90

Con

First off, I was not referring to Obama's religion as the church of Christ. I was referring the criticism that he has got for the misconception that he is Muslim, which is totally false. Also, I feel that this debate is worthless, especially since this "Glorious Conservative" has already dropped out. Doesn't look like he is the best choice now right?

Also, Romney is a member of the NRA, I never said he wasn't; however, he joined just a short time before announcing his candidacy for President.

On the issue of Abortion. Romney claims to be pro life; however in a statement he said when he ran against Edward Kennedy, He stated that, " 'I believe that abortion should be safe and legal in this country. I have since the time that my mom took that position when she ran in 1970 as a US Senate candidate. I believe that since Roe v. Wade has been the law for 20 years we should sustain and support it.' " While I personally agree with this statement, I don't believe that this is a statement of a "Conservative" candidate.

Romney on Education- In March of 2002, Romney supported abolishing the Federal Department of Education. Although, I do believe that our education system has problems, is it really the best decision to simply shut down the dept. of education? However, in May 2007 he flip flopped, once again, to support the No Child Left Behind Act. This act is a dismal failure, in my mind. The idea behind it is a very good idea; however, it is a failing program. It is leaving every child behind waiting for everyone to catch up. It also punishes the schools that are not performing. I am an education major, and I have had an opportunity to talk to many teachers in all areas of studies, and many of these teachers thought the act was a joke. He does have some good ideas on education, however, he has flip flopped a little bit too much for me on some of the education issues.

I will be honest with you, I am Democrat, but if it was Romney against Hillary, I would vote for Romney. He does have some good ideas, but so does Obama, McCain, Paul etc. Romney is not your best choice for the Republican nomination. Many people believe that he is a RINO, and he has actually been accused of that before by being named the 8th most RINO in the Republican party. Romney is a smooth talker, but thats it. He is a flip flopper, and I don't see how you can deny that. When he ran against Kennedy he was pro choice, but now he's pro life. Seems like a flip flop to me. Romney does not convey a good image for the Republican party. Just look at the decline in registered Republicans in his own state of Mass. after he left office...it went down by approx 30,000, while Democrats went up by 31,000. His approval was dismal when he left. He has dropped out, so this debate is useless. McCain is the best choice for the Republican party. He has the ability to work with both political parties. At least McCain has stood strong on his stance on many issues, and has not flip flopped.
Debate Round No. 3
WannabeMusketeer

Pro

It's just as much as a misconception about Obama's religion as it is abot the content and beliefs of Romney's. Yes he was the best candidate.He is still the best candidate. He dropped out for the good of the party.

I never said that you claiked he wasn't, but you claimed that he wasn't conservative on gun control. I wouldn't exactly call a member of the NRA not conservative on gun control. It's like calling a member of planned parenthood, not liberal on abortion.

He's never backed down from these claims. He's admitted that he's changed his view on abortion. However, he's always had a personal objection to it but if you would have quoted him fully. He stated that he didnt think it was right to force your opinion on others, and this statement was made following his family members decision to have an abortion. If you're claiming he's flip flopped; at least he flipped and stayed there. Unlike McCain.

He supported the idea, how he wants to fund and carry it out wasn't said. It's not to be left for your assumption. It doesn't punish poorly performing schools, it rewards schools who achieve. He changed his opinion way before 2007. You keep mking this claim. Just because 2007 is when you first heard of him, doesn't mean it's when he changed hi mind. What teachers were they? Union teachers who dont want to be held accountable for their performance in the classroom? I bet dollars to donuts.

McCain has flip flopped and its not that he can work with both sides, its that he's too willing to compromise conservative values. You need to understand that Romney was a conservative in the most liberal state in America. To be able to do so well in a liberal state is incredible. He wasn't disliked what-so-ever. He won his state in the primaies easily, McCain had more trouble to win Arizona than Romney did in Massachusetts. Rmney was the best candidate, McCain hasn't earned any respect from conservatives, in fact he was booed at the latest conservative convention. I would also like to know where he was ranked 8th, wherewas McCain ranked? because the base of the party is strongly behind Roney, he's no RINO, hes a true patriot and conservative. It's a loss for the nation to lose the opportunity at a great President. The best conservative and Republican candidates best represent what Reagan represented and that's NOT McCain!
big_chief90

Con

big_chief90 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
He did try to fight it , as did the Republicans here , but this state is democratic and he wanted us to vote on it , but it was never allowed. Romney was very vocal about not wanting gay marriage legalized here in MA.
Posted by big_chief90 9 years ago
big_chief90
he may be against gay marriage, but he did not fight too hard to overturn it. Why did he oppose the 94 marriage amendment if he was against same sex marriage? Why in 2002 did he officially provide legal recognition of same sex marriages? This man may be against same sex marriage, but he has not tried too hard to overturn anything. He is as much of a flip flopper as John Kerry was and is.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
Con , Romney did not want to legalize gay marriage in the state of MA. He tried very hard to overturn that.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
To let Hilary or Obama win is ridiculous. A true Republican will vote for McCain .. He may not be the most conservative Republican , but to let one of the Democrats in office to spite him is only losing us a war , giving us a failure of a National Health care System , allowing abortion, legalizing gay marriage and if Obama wins sending our troops to Africa. To let one of them in instead of McCain is ridiculous.
Posted by Richard89 9 years ago
Richard89
Ron Paul is the worst candidate the Republicans could choose. However, if you want to fold to terrorists, sever alliances, implode the government, legalize all drugs, and limit the economy with the gold standard then by all means Ron Paul is the candidate for you. And yes it is unfortunate that Romney dropped out. He was our last hope in this election.
Posted by Black.Nite17 9 years ago
Black.Nite17
Too bad romney dropped out today!
Posted by JustCallMeTarzan 9 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
McCain is the most logical choice for the Republican party. He does not represent the best Republican ideals, but consider matchups in the presidental race:

Clinton - Romney: Clinton will win
Clinton - McCain: McCain will win
Obama - Romney: Obama will win
Obama - McCain: Doesn't really matter because they're both centrist.

So it's much more logical for the Republican party to keep Hillary Clinton OUT of the White House than for them to attempt to get Romney elected while the Democrat party controls congress.
Posted by Black.Nite17 9 years ago
Black.Nite17
Wow you guys are dumb...Ron Paul is the best candidate for the republicans
Posted by ericjpomeroy 9 years ago
ericjpomeroy
I don't think anyone can debate this! Romney is the only smart choice left for the Republicans.
Posted by impactyourworld89 9 years ago
impactyourworld89
Couldn't agree more with you. McCain's not even a true Republican. He's a RINO (Republican In Name Only)
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by kenicks 9 years ago
kenicks
WannabeMusketeerbig_chief90Tied
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Vote Placed by sluggerjal 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by harrydickgraber 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by chrrinma 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by big_chief90 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by paul_tigger 9 years ago
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WannabeMusketeerbig_chief90Tied
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