The Instigator
Dubloon
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
RyuuKyuzo
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Mitt Romney's name is more swell Barack Obama's

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
RyuuKyuzo
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/25/2012 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,340 times Debate No: 25282
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (2)

 

Dubloon

Pro

This debate is about whether Mitt Romney has a cooler name than Barack Obama.

Swell is defined as: "Excellent; very good."

Name is defined as:"A word or set of words by which a person, animal, place, or thing is known, addressed, or referred to."

More is defined as: "A greater or additional amount or degree: "I poured myself more coffee"; "tell me more"."

Voters must vote on who has the most convincing and compelling arguments. First round can be either an argument or acceptance, I do not care. We are reffering to the full name, including middle names, and titles (Sr., Dr.) Political ideals are not covered in this debate, as all we are judging them by is the quality of their name.

This debate is about whether Mitt Romney has a cooler name that Barack Obama.

Swell
RyuuKyuzo

Con

I thank my opponent for this chance to debate. I really shouldn't be taking this because I'm heading out for my vacation in a few hours, but if my opponent if willing to respond as quickly as possible then we just might be able to finish this debate. I just couldn't resist such a topic.

I will be arguing that Barack Hussein Obama II has a more 'swell' name than Mitt "The Nitwit" Romney. ^^

To reiterate my opponent's sentiments, this debate has nothing to do with political ideals and so this should not turn into a partisan vote. I, personally, do not support Obama any more than I support Romney, I merely contend that Obama has a better name.

For Obama

1. Punny
Obama's name is highly versatile in that there's a lot of room for making puns. The Internet has taken note of this and page after page of Obama-related puns have been made. [1] [2] [3] (and this is just a small sample)

The pun-potential of Barack's name is so great that there's literally a profit to be made over it as seen by the emergence of Obama-pun key chains. [4]

Some of my personal favourites include:
  • I bought this case of beer, but now I have to drink it OBAMA self
  • I'll be Barack (terminator joke)
  • OBAMAnation
  • Brock Obama (Pokémon joke)

I'm sure many of you could think of many more, several of which may be variations of the ones I've provided. This goes to show just how swell Obama's name is.

2. II

Baracks name ends in "II". That is, his name is "Barack Hussein Obama the Second". That is classy. How many people other than royalty have a name that ends in "the second"? Off the top of your head, of course. We all know how to work Google.

Most of you will come up with a list of names in the ballpark of zero people long. That blank list includes Romney. Think about it.

Against Romney

1. Low Pun-Potential

Mitt Romney's name is virtually un-punable. Puns on Mitt's name are much more scarce than puns for Obama's because there's really only one unfunny joke to make about Romney's name -- Mitt is like 'mittens'. That's it. This is the sort of joke you would make to yourself, not laugh, and then forget you ever thought it because even you found it too lame to bother remembering.

Consider that icanhas.cheesburder.com, a site famous for making 'cutsie' puns of everything, has only managed to come up with 2 puns on Romney's name. The first is simply a picture of Romney with a baseball glove on (feel the anti-lulz yet?) and the other is "Hello Mitty", an unfunny Hello Kitty pun [5]. That's all they've come up with -- and they get paid to come up with this stuff. Not only that, but they have 1,500,000 people visit their site daily, every single one of which can upload whatever puns they can come up with as icanhas.cheesburder.com is highly ran on user submitted content. Consider the implications of this. This means that a website that was worth 2 million dollars back in 2007 [6], with the combined intellect of 1,500,000 daily viewers has only been able to come up with 2 Romney jokes.

This fact alone is enough to show that Obama's name is more swell than Romney's, but the final nail in the coffin is still yet to come.

2. Romney's First Name

That's right. "Mitt" isn't even Mitt Romney's first name. Romney's full name is Willard Mitt Romney [7]. Willard, a name so awful that he doesn't even use it. Consider the implications of this; even Mitt Romney doesn't even think his full name is swell, so why should you?

Conclusion

Obama's name has a greater pun-potential, to the point of being profitable, while Mitt Romney has little more than one single unfunny joke going for him. Also, there are no numbers in Mitt's name, so he losses on both hilarity and class. Furthermore, Mitt's first name is Willard. Now, maybe you like that name, but Mitt doesn't, and that says all that needs to be said on whose name is more swell. Mitt may or may not be a better politician, but one thing is for certain, his name is matter of factly not nearly as swell as Obama's.

I look forward to your response.

1. http://www.smosh.com...
2. http://icanhas.cheezburger.com...
3. http://www.theatlanticwire.com...
4. http://www.zazzle.ca...
5. http://icanhas.cheezburger.com...
6. http://en.wikipedia.org...
7. http://en.wikipedia.org...

Debate Round No. 1
Dubloon

Pro

Anagrams
Anagrams are the practice of rearranging letters in a word to form new words. unfortunately, Doing that for Barack Obama is pretty much impossible [1]. All that you can really anagram is gibberish like "A Cab Bra Amok" and "Baa Cab Ark Om." With Mitt Romney, however, you get anagrams such as "Yo, Mr. Mitten," "Memory Tint" and "Not My Merit [2]." As you can see, Mitt Romney's anagrams are far superior to Barack Obama's.

An example I will use is from Harry Potter, and the name Tom Marvolo Riddle. Although the name is pretty good by itself, would it be half as swell if it didn't anagram to "I am Lord Voldemort?" [3] I think not. Also, Elvis (Presley)'s first name famously anagrams to "Lives," which sparked a conspiracy theory all on its own. The theory is more widely entertained than you think [4] [5] [6]. If anagrams are used as a tactic to make a name more swell in a worldwide bestseller, and able to start conspiracy theories, then why can't they make Mitt Romney's name swell (or at least more swell than Obama.)

Meanings
The meanings of Romney's names far exceed Obama's (which is nothing.) Willard, Mitt Romney's first name as you pointed out, means brave or resolute [7]. "Romney" means winding river. [8] Although the winding river part is not particularly compelling, since Barack Obama's name means nothing, I think this is a solid reason why Romney's name is more swell.

Puns: Rebuttal (Of both the case that Obama's name is extremely punnable, and that Mitt Romney's is not)

As one of your sources you cited Icanhaz.cheezburger.com, and pointed out that Mitt Romney only has two puns on it, but you never mentioned that Obama only had seven [9]. And, considering that the popular masses had known about Obama for quite a lot longer than they knew about Mitt Romney, I don't see much of a difference here.

As for the fact that Barack Obama's name is easily punnable, I don't see this to be a very compelling reason for a swell name because puns are widely considered to be the lowest tier of humor [10] [11]. Since they are so easy to make and sometimes make people utter a forced chuckle, puns are the ideal canidates for popsicle sticks. The popsicles themselves are pretty swell, but the stick? I tend to throw them away before I read a word.

II

I would like to add that I do have one man who came from the top of my head, and that is Jack White III (musician,) but I'm not going to pretend one name is going to help me rebut this argument. My point here is that the "II" indicates that there has been another Barack Obama before him. Why should we praise a name that has been reused like your cousin's hand-me-downs? Also, traditionally, you only start putting numbers in your name after a third generation, so that means that Obama was the fifth Barack! Would you think that a Pink Floyd DSOTM shirt is still swell after four of your cousins had used it? I think not!

Romney's first name
First of all, we are not debating whether Romney thinks his name is swell, we are debating if it is a fact. Also, I have provided a list of celebreties who go by their middle name [12]. And that only covers a couple. Here are some more:

Ryan Phillippe -- his real name is Matthew Ryan Phillippe
Ashton Kutcher -- his real name is Christopher Ashton Kutcher
Bruce Willis -- his real name is Walter Bruce Willis
Brad Pitt -- his real name is William Bradley Pitt.
Antonio Banderas -- real name is Jose Antonio Dominguez Bandera
Garth Brooks - his real name is Troyal Garth Brooks
Peter Coyote -- his real name is Robert Peter Cohon
John Denver -- his real name is Henry John Deutschendorf Jr.
Farrah Fawcett -- real name is Mary Farrah Lori Fawcett
Will Ferrell – real name is John William Ferrell
Kelsey Grammar – real name is Allen Kelsey Grammer
Faith Hill -- Audrey Faith Perry
Hugh Laurie – real name is James Hugh Calum Laurie
Andie Macdowell -- Rosalie Anderson MacDowell
Penny Marshal -- Carole Penny Maschiarelli

Just because Willard Romney goes by "Mitt," doesn't mean that its because he thinks its lame.

1.
http://wordsmith.org...
2. http://wordsmith.org...;
3. http://en.wikipedia.org...
4. http://www.probatelawyerblog.com...
5. http://www.youtube.com...
6. http://www.theelvisisalivemuseum.com...;
7. http://www.meaning-of-names.com...;
8. http://www.meaning-of-names.com...;
9. http://icanhas.cheezburger.com...;
10. http://puzzles.about.com...;
11. See Samuel Johnson and his quotes
12. http://www.quora.com...;(look at third list)
RyuuKyuzo

Con

Counter Arguments

1. Anagrams

Pro contends that Romney's name is more swell because you can form sensical anagrams from it, while Obama's name comes up with gibberish. To this I accuse my opponent of cherry-picking. That is, he is only pointing out Romney's sensical anagrams and Barack's nonsensical ones. Most of Mitt's anagrams actually result in sentences along the lines of "Ye Mitt Morn" and "Em Nit Om Try" [1]. I highly recommend checking out this source to the voters to see that this is, in fact, the case.

On to Obama, it is true that typing in Barack Obama doesn't provide any better than Romney's results, but this can be changed by using "President Obama" instead of just "Barack Obama". Keep in mind that I am allowed to use titles as outlined by Pro in round 1. When you take Obama's title into consideration, you get such anagrams as:
  • Penis, dreamboat?
  • More debt as pain.
  • I am a debt person.
  • Modest ape-brain.
  • Most pea-brained.

More here [2]. The best anagram Pro could come up with was "Yo, Mr. Mitten". It is my contention that the anagrams I have provided are much more hilarious than "Yo, Mr. Mitten", and so Obama wins on anagrams.

To remain fair I have to take into account anagrams with Romney's title as well -- and this is the result of punching in "Governor Romney" into the anagram creator Pro provided [3]. As you can see, none of them even approach the level of lulz seen in Obama's anagrams.

In case my opponent has a problem with using the full title of "president" to come up with anagrams, I've taken the liberty of finding anagrams that only use the words "Barack Hussein Obama":

  • OK, ambush as nice Arab.
  • Bush, I can break Osama.
  • Obama bin Shark-Sauce.

More here [4].

2. Meanings

Pro asserts that Obama's name has no meaning and is therefore inferior. This is an outright lie, or at least lazy fact-checking. Barack's name means "blessed handsome one" [5]. So now it's a question of the "blessed handsome one" versus the "brave... winding river". Since this is mostly a subjective topic the question is left up to the voters -- which would you rather be? Blessed and handsome, or a 'brave' river?

Defence

1. Puns

Pro claims that the difference between the amount of puns for Obama (7) is not significantly higher than the amount for Romney (2) on ICHCB. While Pro may not find a 350% larger pun base to be significant, I also provided two additional sources along with the cheeseburger network source (which my opponent recognizes), so this argument is moot as more puns for Obama are available, but not for Mitt. Furthermore, ICHCB doesn't have all there Obama puns in that list. Many are scattered across the site (for example, Baraka Obama [9]). Pro is welcome to try to find more Romney Puns on ICHCB if he likes, but it won't help.

In addition, here are some more Obama puns. [6] [7]

Next, my opponent contends that puns are the lowest form of humor. I contend that unfunny anagrams are lower than funny puns, but that's for the voters to decide.

2. II

Pro argues that there's nothing special about being named after an older family member and claims it is akin to "your cousin's hand-me-downs". I guess Pro isn't aware that Mitt Romney is named after his Father's cousin [8].
Now we have a case where Pro's criticism applies to both candidates, but only one of them actually gets a number in their name (Obama). Point to Obama.

3. Willard

There is no objective standard for whose name is more swell. Given this, it is my contention is that if even Mitt doesn't think his name is swell, there's good reason to conclude that it is not.

Pro next provides a list of people who go by their middle names. This is a non-sequitur. Just because these people also don't care for there first names doesn't mean Romney's first name is any better. There's no logic in that.

Final Point, Mitt asked to go by Mitt instead of his first name when he went into kindergarten [8]. It's vividly clear that Mitt doesn't care for his first name, nor has he ever.

Conclusion

The strongest of Pro's arguments rest on cherry picking and ignoring my provided sources. The rest is either easily defeated or unrelated altogether. Obama clearly has the better and more fun name. I'm out of characters.




1. http://wordsmith.org...

2. http://www.anagramgenius.com...
3. http://wordsmith.org...
4. http://www.anagramgenius.com....
5. http://islam.about.com...
6. http://www.zazzle.ca...
7. http://www.survivalistboards.com...
8. http://en.wikipedia.org...
9. http://cheezburger.com...;

Debate Round No. 2
Dubloon

Pro

Anagrams

Con starts his argument by stating that Mitt Romney's anagrams on the website I provided are just as incomprehensible Obama's anagrams. I will admit that many don't mean anything, the small amount of comprehensible anagrams on this site outnumber the ones of Obama [1].

Another thing to add: for every single anagram he provided, con used a different website for the source of the anagrams. This website is different because instead of being automatically generated, it consists of user-submitted content. This is decieving not only because he compared the anagrams against each other, but because he could of typed in "Governor Romney" on the website he used and it still would of worked. Also, the "Governor Romney" search con made on my word generator were pretty funny, if you ask me. This is another form of deception, assuming that the voters won't read your sources.

Here is the best of the computer-generated search on "Governor Romney:" [2]
-"Nerve Orgy Moron"
-"O, Mr. Ogre, nor envy"

Here is the best of the user-submitted search on Governor Mitt Romney (There was no posts without "Mitt")[3]
-"Rig mormon vote entry?"
-"Mormon reign? Try veto!"

Here is the best of the user-submitted search on "Mitt Romney:"[4]
-"My! I'm rotten!"
-"Mr. Tit money"

Here is the best of the user-submitted search on "Willard Mitt Romney:"[5]
-"May drill to win term"
-"My, rotter, a windmill!"
-"Minor, little, wry, mad"
-"Rally to win midterm"
-"Or my little raw mind

Although con likes to tell me I'm cherry picking, he seems to be cutting down the bush. (Is that a saying? I think it should be a saying. Do cherries even come from bushes?) Anyway, I believe that the voters will agree, that Mitt Romney has better anagrams that aren't just for lulz, but actually make sense until its clever. I think Romney wins this one.

Meanings

I will agree that it was lazy, on my part, to not search more than one source. But failes to notice that Romney means "one who came from winding river" and not just "winding river." [6] So if Mitt Romney is Brave and came from a winding river, and Obama was blessed and handsome, what do you think is the most swell? Who would be best character in a fantasy book? Scifi? Romance? Fan fiction? I will let the voters decide.

Puns

I now submit that Barack Obama has more pun potential than Romney does

However, Con states that anagrams are a lower form of humor than puns are. I contend that anagrams never were and never will be considered a form of humor. This debate is based on the swellness (which I defined as "Excellent; Very good") and not funniness. Although being funny definitly is a factor, it is no reason to just dismiss an argument outright.

I will also state that I found the anagrams to be much funnier than the puns you provided.

II


Con failes to notice that "Mitt" was a nickname of Romney's cousin [7] and not his real name (which was Milton.) That is like, instead of your cousins hand-me-downs, you get a completely new article of clothing from the same brand your cousin bought from.

Conclusion

Con accuses me of cherry picking, while he is doing something more deceptive. A lot of time he dismisses arguments based on half-baked logic. In most if not every category, the name Mitt Romney is most certainly more swell.


1. http://wordsmith.org...
2. http://wordsmith.org...;
3. http://www.anagramgenius.com...;
4. http://www.anagramgenius.com...;
5. http://www.anagramgenius.com...;
6. http://surnames.meaning-of-names.com...;
7. http://en.wikipedia.org...;

RyuuKyuzo

Con

Counter Arguments

1. Anagrams

Pro opens by criticising my use of other websites to find examples of anagrams. This is illegitimate criticism. There's no rule limiting me to the sources Pro provides and I'm more than allowed to use the entirety of the Internet provided to find Obama anagrams, or even make up my own if I see fit.

Pro criticises my methods because I didn't search the site I used for Romney anagrams. This too is illegitimate. I am in no way obligated to find Pro's arguments for him. That's an absurd complaint. I used Pro's own source and argued against that with my own. That's exactly what I'm supposed to do. Had I done otherwise, Pro would complain that I am straw-manning or something along those lines. This is a weak trap and I'm not falling for it.

I in no way made a gamble of assuming the voters don't check the sources. To the contrary I made it a point to tell them to see for themselves. Pro is grasping at straws to divert attention from his original deceit on to my imaginary deceit.

Now that that's dealt with, on to the argument.

I picked two anagrams on the site Pro provided at random to give the voters a proper sample of what's available on that site for Romney. Pro managed to find two anagrams with funny sounding words, but that's all they are -- funny words. "Nerve Orgy Moron" and "O, Mr. Ogre, nor envy" are still nonsensical. This argument is defeated.

Pro then goes on to list user submitted anagrams, most of which are nonsensical anyway and of the sensical ones, only "Mr. Tit money" is any good. Compare the lone Mr. Tit money to the super team of the Penis Dreamboat, Obama bin Shark-sauce, the Modest Ape-Brain etc. and it's clear who wins on anagrams. It's not even a contest.

2. Meanings

Pro then criticises me for referring to Romney as a "winding river" instead of "one who comes from winding river". This is more illegitimate criticism. When Pro originally brought it up he said Romney meant "winding river" and I quote:

"Romney" means winding river.

Is Pro admitting to lying previously, or is he lying now? Well it seems he's lying now as the source HE provided in round two turned up the following meaning for the name "Romney":

"In English, the name Romney means- winding river." [1]

Clearly, Romney means river. There is no denying this and I highly recommend the voters check the link out to verify that Pro has indeed lied about what his source says to support his argument.

This lie, on top of the lie that Obama's name means nothing (which may have been just laziness, but now I have my doubts) brings the reliability of Pro's entire argument into question, but I don't have enough characters to investigate further so all I can do is invite the voters to look into the sourcing themselves.

3. Puns

Pro concedes this point, so there's little else to say, however he blatantly straw-mans me by saying I argued anagrams are a lower form of humor than puns. This is completely wrong as anyone who cares to scroll up can see. I said unfunny anagrams are lower than funny puns. Another lie, or more laziness?

Pro then contends that this debate isn't over the humor potential of their names. Funny how he had no problem arguing for the humor potential of Romney's name up until now, but once he concedes the point he becomes so dismissive of humor as a factor, at least to the extent that it should be the only factor -- which I never argued to be the case making this yet another straw-man. Once again, this is a desperation tactic used to water down the impact of his loss.

4. II

Barack's name is derived from "Baraka" [2] just as Mitt is from Milton, so the criticism still applies. What's the point to this argument exactly?

Dropped Arguments

1. Willard

Pro completely dropped my counter argument outlined in point 3 of round 2 (Willard) addressing Mitt's disapproval of his own name and my accusation of Pro's argument being a non-sequitur. Given this it must be concluded that Pro concedes that Mitt disproves of his own name and that he was, in fact, arguing a non-sequitur.

Conclusion

Well, this is a pretty clear decision. Pro's best arguments here amounted to illegitimate criticism used to divert attention from his flimsy and hollow arguments, straw-men arguments, dropping arguments he can't deal with and outright lies when nothing else was available. All that leaves is Pro's concession of Obama's superior pun potential, which given that it is a concession makes the decision on the matter a foregone conclusion. There's many more such things I could bring to light and debunk, but my the small character limit of this debate keeps me from doing so. No matter, what I've provided is already more than enough.

When all this is taken into consideration, every point of contention argued here; be it pun/anagram potential, class, meaning, or even their own views on their names, Obama's name is more swell.

A vote for Con is a vote for the Penis Dreamboat!

Thank you.






1. http://www.meaning-of-names.com...
2. http://goo.gl...
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by RyuuKyuzo 5 years ago
RyuuKyuzo
Dubloon, most of your sources from round 3 are broken. If you want to correct them in the comments here (if you can), I won't object.
Posted by RyuuKyuzo 5 years ago
RyuuKyuzo
No big deal, Willard was the least of your problems. ;)

Anyway, great job all around. This is 100x better than your arguments in our last debate. You've got some potential. Who knows, maybe next time you'll even best me. ;)
Posted by Dubloon 5 years ago
Dubloon
Crap...forgot to refute Willard...
Posted by RyuuKyuzo 5 years ago
RyuuKyuzo
Haha! Fighting to the last breath, I like that!
Posted by Dubloon 5 years ago
Dubloon
I just finished :D
Posted by RyuuKyuzo 5 years ago
RyuuKyuzo
You could always concede and save us the time =D

Unless you're almost done writing now, either way I have a few spare hours guaranteed internet left. ^^
Posted by Dubloon 5 years ago
Dubloon
Gosh it'll be hard to top that D:
Posted by RyuuKyuzo 5 years ago
RyuuKyuzo
I think I screwed up citation 9 of round 2. Here's the non-broken link [ http://cheezburger.com... ]
Posted by RyuuKyuzo 5 years ago
RyuuKyuzo
Deutschendorf sounds like a character from a Harry Potter knock-off ^^
Posted by bossyburrito 5 years ago
bossyburrito
"John Denver -- his real name is Henry John Deutschendorf Jr."
THIS RUINED MY LIFEEEEEEE
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by FREEDO 5 years ago
FREEDO
DubloonRyuuKyuzoTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con pawned Pro. More facts. More reasoned arguments. More humor.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
DubloonRyuuKyuzoTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Willard is way cool