The Instigator
socialpinko
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
wjmelements
Con (against)
Winning
14 Points

Mixed economies work better then fully socialist or fully capitalist economies.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
wjmelements
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/7/2011 Category: Economics
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 10,148 times Debate No: 15221
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (3)

 

socialpinko

Pro

I will argue the pro that mixed economies function better then fully socialist or fully capitalist economies.

Mixed economy: an economic system that combines private and state enterprises
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

socialist economy: an economic system based on state ownership of capital
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Capitalist economy: an economic system based on private ownership of capital
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
wjmelements

Con

I accept my opponent's definitions. As he is PRO and the instigator, he has the burden of proof, and so I will let him present his case first.
Debate Round No. 1
socialpinko

Pro

I will argue that while both capitalism and socialism have good qualities about them, neither system can fully work properly without parts of the other system put in place. capitalism's inherent purpose is to produce capital. This means that there are some situations in which the quest for profit trumps human needs. I have used the example of a healthcare monopoly before. A company finds a cure for cancer and copyrights it so it is the only one able to produce the cure. Since demand will always be high and the company can keep the supply low, the company can now profit from the needless suffering of others. Socialism's inherent purpose is to satisfy human needs. Most socialist economies employ a cetralized or de-centralized planned economy. This method is not as effective a method for the allocation of resources and distribution of goods as the free market system. The amount of information needed to plan the economy is simply too great.

I contend that putting the free market system along with government regulation and government ownership of certain industries will provide a more stable basis of economics. Regulation and government ownership of certain industries like police and education(which keeps them relatively stable as the market fluctuates,you don't have to shut down the police in a down economy) along with the free market to allocate resources works better than an unrestricted capitalist economy or a completely socialist economy.
wjmelements

Con

I will assert that full capitalism is superior to a mixed economy.

==Refutation==
My opponent's objection to capitalism is based on a copyright argument; however, copyrights are not capitalist. They limit private ownership of capital through a governmental threat of force, and are therefore an aspect of a mixed economy. Corporatist regulations prevent optimal resource allocation, as my opponent has pointed out in his second round in his healthcare example. The government giving monopolistic privileges such as the copyright is one of the failures of a mixed economy, that private greed combines with public force and screws the population.

My opponent also pretends that government ownership of the industries of security and education prevents their absence during depressions and recessions; however, there is constant demand for such industries. If these industries were funded directly, by their customers, rather than indirectly, by taxation, there would be constant funding. Instead, during the downs of the business cycle, the services of these industries suffer, because their source of revenue is cut. For example, diminishing sales tax revenue in Texas is forcing cuts to the socialist education system [1]. If the education system was instead funded directly by the continuous supply of newborn customers, the quality of education would not drop during recessions.

==Negation==
Capitalism is most compatible with human behavior; because humans act individually, the system that grants them the most individual freedom benefits them the most. When left free to pursue one's own happiness through self ownership and private property, the individual maximizes his happiness. Through a system of subjective value exchange, the individual that can find the way to satisfy the most urgent wants and needs of the most people will find himself the most reciprocally rewarded; therefore, capitalism encourages humanity to serve another, to maximize their subjective utility, and to become collectively more satisfied than they would have had they attempted to work as a single organ. Private property results in maximum societal welfare.

Any attempt to taint this private property results in inefficiency, because of the rules of human nature. No human takes responsibility for public property. An example would be the public street. Lacking individual ownership, no individual will pick up trash that accumulates there. All public property everywhere has resulted in the problems with capitalism: public air invites private air pollution, for companies can dump their waste costs onto society; public water invites private water pollution, for companies can dump their waste costs onto society; public seas invite overfishing, for companies have no incentive to conserve; public forests invite deforestation, for companies have no incentive to replant; public land invites overgrazing, for there exists no incentive to conserve. The list extends almost indefinitely. The failures attributed to capitalism are simply mismanagement of public property on the part of the state, free rider problems, and tragedies of the commons [2], all of which arise from public property in a capitalist system. Therefore, a mixed economy is inferior to a pure capitalist system.

The resolution is negated. Thank you.

==Sources==
[1] http://www.kxan.com...
[2] http://www.debate.org...
Debate Round No. 2
socialpinko

Pro

socialpinko forfeited this round.
wjmelements

Con

Unfortunately, my opponent forfeited his third round.

Reiteration:

Public property under capitalism leads to economic problems. Full capitalism maximizes societal welfare. Therefore, the resoution is negated.

Thank you.

Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by wjmelements 6 years ago
wjmelements
I'm undecided on IP. I kicked it out of free market capitalism for convenience.
Posted by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
So you admit that this would have come down to a semantics debate about whether or not IP could be considered property. Once again, the term absolutely can include IP though the complete bias by the ancaps here would have automatically awarded the point to wjm despite that fact which is BS. In a way it's good that socialpinko didn't bother responding, because I doubt he would have made the catch anyway. Still he should have relied on much stronger arguments which he didn't even bother to make.
Posted by J.Kenyon 6 years ago
J.Kenyon
Meh, even if a capitalist economy *could* include IP, Con can still negate Pro's offense by claiming it isn't necessarily entailed.
Posted by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
I might be interested in debating this as Pro, though the resolution would have to be refined (it's not very specific as to what "working better" is referring to). In that case would you be interested in a re-do, wjm? Or maybe I should just borrow this topic for the debate tournament. Hmm.

I'd also like to note that had socialpinko responded, he could have easily argued that copyrights can/do exist in a "purely" capitalistic economy. It comes down to a semantics argument where people against IP argue that the term property cannot apply to non-physical things, but that's just based on their subjective definition as the definition or term could easily be inclusive of IP. That's what this debate would have come down to I guess, though Pro didn't have any strong offensive arguments in his first round to uphold even if he had responded.

Also, wjmelements since when are you against copyrights? Raggy is pro copyright and I know the Texans were bandwagoning on the Raggy train for awhile. Let me guess - you are now an ancap or close to it?
Posted by socialpinko 6 years ago
socialpinko
alright
Posted by wjmelements 6 years ago
wjmelements
"The voting period will last indefinitely."

Change this to between 2 weeks and 1 year and I'll accept.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by mongeese 6 years ago
mongeese
socialpinkowjmelementsTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct: Forfeit. Arguments: Con's excellent points went unrefuted. Sources: Sources used in argument are superior to sources used in definition.
Vote Placed by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
socialpinkowjmelementsTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro's forfeits about sum it up.
Vote Placed by Zealous1 6 years ago
Zealous1
socialpinkowjmelementsTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit.