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Modern Feminism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/15/2015 Category: Society
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 741 times Debate No: 82600
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Modern Feminism in the united states has no place. I have heard a lot about it being about equality, and that women are treated less than men in society, they act and make the situation appear as if they were an African American in the late 1800's. What i would like to point out is that there are people in other countries, such as Afghanistan, or china, where women legitimately are objectified and they are oppressed, here in the United States they have many rights, we also have had a women's suffrage movement where they were granted rights they did not previously have. In the current day they act as if we are still in that day and age, when women get raped it's because someone who has serious mental issues was allowed that opportunity, some are under the influence of illicit drugs and or they're potentially more uncontrollable counterpart, alcohol. Not many men rape or even have thoughts of rape, nor any desire to do so. A simply hello or a casual comment that is meant in a flirtatious or even a courteous way does not signify or blow a whistle (that's ironic) signalling rape. Thinking in that way is a very paranoid and self destructive way to think. "Rape culture" is not a real thing and thinking so is downright delusional and signifies a very mislead mind.


Feminism: "advocating social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men."
Rape Culture: "a complex set of beliefs that encourage male sexual aggression and supports violence against women. A rape culture condones physical and emotional terrorism against women as the norm." These definitions will be sufficient for both sides of the debate. I will not accept other definitions. Good luck.

Feminism may not always be relevant. It may not always have a place in society. There may come a day when feminism is a thing of the past. But that day is not today. That day is not tomorrow, or next week, or six months from now. Now, feminism is a necessary idea of empowerment, of strength and sisterhood. It is relevant in every country around the world including the so advanced and so equal United States. You see, feminism is not simply an idea that protects women who are treated as slaves by their husbands. Feminism is a belief that all people are created equal and deserve to be treated as such. I will agree that women in the United States are far better off than women in many Middle Eastern countries. But if for a single moment you believe women are treated equally, you, sir, are the problem.

The actual concept of feminism itself is often warped into the idea of female supremacy and "man-hating." Feminists are not seeking female domination. In America, we are only seeking equal rights. A 2015 study found, "The United States is no different, as women earn $0.77 to every $1 men earn for the same amount of work. Currently, women hold 99 of 535 seats (18.5 percent) in the 113th U.S. Congress; 20 of 100 seats (20 percent) in the Senate and 79 of 435 seats (18.2 percent) in the House of Representatives. The United States has never had a woman president. Also, women in the U.S. military account for only 14.5 percent of active-duty force." Women still lack equal representation in the halls of government in America. I would not call that equal.

You state above that "there are people in other countries, such as Afghanistan, or china, where women legitimately are objectified and they are oppressed, here in the United States they have many rights,". I agree there are women in other countries who are oppressed. Women in the United States (generally) do not face the same types of hardships as women in other countries. But different does not mean less than. In the United States, the beauty ideal for women is so disproportionate and unhealthy that we actually have "Anna Rexia" Halloween costumes. A study found that "one out of every 3.8 television commercials sent some sort of 'attractiveness message' to the people who were watching. These messages are directed to the American consumer more often than not to sell a product but at the same time they are telling the consumer what is essential to be beautiful in American society." There are constantly billboards and advertisements showing off the ideal image of "beauty." Women are always bombarded with images of this. Women are picked apart constantly and told we aren't good enough. Twelve year old girls are checked out by 50 year old men. Men will unabashedly stare at a woman's breasts in normal conversation. Girls are sent home from school for wearing yoga pants because "it's distracting to the boys." Do not tell me women are not objectified when I have battled anorexia because I was 115 pounds and was told I was too fat. Do not tell me women are not objectified when my ten year old sister has been cat called. Do not tell me women in America are not objectified when every single day I see billboards, pictures, and advertisements on how to "perfect" myself for a man. Do not tell me this does not exist.

You argue that "In the current day they act as if we are still in that day and age, when women get raped it's because someone who has serious mental issues was allowed that opportunity, some are under the influence of illicit drugs and or they're potentially more uncontrollable counterpart, alcohol. Not many men rape or even have thoughts of rape, nor any desire to do so. A simply hello or a casual comment that is meant in a flirtatious or even a courteous way does not signify or blow a whistle (that's ironic) signalling rape." A study conducted by the Washington Coalition of Sexual Assault Programs found, "Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes." Another study conducted by the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network found that "1 in 3 sexual assaults, the perpetrator was intoxicated — 30% with alcohol, 4% with drugs." Most rapists are not, in fact, intoxicated or under the influence. Two-thirds of all rapes in the United States are conducted by completely sober men. A casual greeting or a whistle on the street may seem trivial to you, but to women, it is a warning sign. Generally, men who are interested in getting to know a woman to actually get to know her are not whistling at her on the street. They are not shouting crude comments to her as she passes. These actions are frightening, not flattering. I do not find it flattering when a random man on the street tells me he wants to "f*ck me." Feminism is the fight for decency and respect towards women. It is the fight against mindsets like yours that protect rapists and turn a blind eye. It is the fight to spread awareness for the oppression we feel, even if it is different from that of women in the Middle East. It is the fight to be treated with respect.

Your last argument states,"'Rape culture' is not a real thing". Rape culture is the acceptance and perpetuation of violence and sexualization towards women. It includes (but is not limited to) jokes, music, advertising, video games, laws, and even words that support violence and the subordination of women. I'll give an example. Though many do not know the root of the word, "hysterical" has a very dark and bloody past. It can be traced back to the late 4th-early 5th centuries. The root "hyster/o" refers to the uterus (hysterectomy is surgical removal of the uterus). Often, the word hysterical was used to describe women who were upset, blaming her emotions or "hysteria" on her uterus and her hormones. Women who supported the Declaration of Sentiments in the 19th century were called "hysterical" and forced to undergo a hysterectomy to rectify it. The continuation of this word perpetuates rape culture by saying, "She's just crazy because she has a uterus." It encourages violence and harm against women who stand up for themselves. This is the same with video games that allow rape. This is the same with laws that do not give women the same rights as men. This is the same with courts that protect rapists. Questions like "Well, what was she wearing?" perpetuate rape culture. We make excuses for rapists and ourselves instead of facing the problem and fixing it. We blame the victim so we don't have to blame ourselves for being a part of the problem. This is rape culture. Feminism is the belief this is wrong. It is the belief that we can change how we view and treat women.

Feminism is essential in our current society because women are still not yet equal. We still teach girls never to leave a drink alone with a guy because he might roofie you. We teach girls never to walk home alone in case you are attacked. We teach girls to hold your key between your fingers in case you need to protect yourself. We teach girls that our education is less important that our male counterparts. We teach girls to cover up so we don't get blamed for their own rape. We teach girls not to get raped, instead of teaching boys not to rape. Until women are treated equally on paper and in the minds of people, feminism will still be necessary in America.
Debate Round No. 1


If I'm the problem, then it sounds like truth is the problem. The reason they make .77 cents for every dollar a man makes, is because not as many women are in the work force as men, simply because they are full time mothers, which that in itself is a very tough job, as well as the ones who live off of men who work full time or more, and simply choose to sit around and live an easy life, or even the ones who collect welfare and child support and work the system like a blood sucking leech to make ends meets. You know, the ones that make me scared to get married for fear of losing half of what i own and in the process losing much of the money that i work for.

We've never had a woman president because they simply are not good enough as politicians to acquire the position, not the fact that they are a woman, it's the fact that they are not qualified for the job. Same thing for congress and senate, its because they don't meet the requirements necessary to win the job. It has nothing to do with their gender. Nobody hates on women or treats them in such a way that they wouldn't vote for them, it's that less women run, and the ones who do obviously do not cut it. That is not inequality, that is people voting for the superior candidate, the fact that women do get positions in senate and congress means they probably did beat some men because they are more qualified than the men who ran.

As for my rebuttal to your second argument: it doesn't exist. Those television advertisements are makeup companies and clothing company's trying to get their product out there for people to buy, it's a little word known as, "advertisement" and it is in no way attempting to objectify women, if that is how you choose to interpret it, than that is you and your self-confidence. Simple over thinking and low self esteem and more than likely, young age, are the biggest culprits at fault here to blame for your interpretation. As for a 12 year old wearing yoga pants, that is an issue with their parents, parents should not let their daughters walk around dressed like that if they are at all concerned about that, also, the only 50 year old men that i have heard about checking out under aged girls are perverts who deserve, if not already are, in prison. I'm sorry for you and your sisters troubles, but again, that has to do with your age and low self esteem, maybe it was your parents or the way you were raised, or even another issue i don't know about, but it most likely was you at fault for that.

"It is the fight to be treated with respect," you mean, disregarding the copious amounts of respect they already have, right? Please keep in mind that the definition of rape is, "unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part or foreign object, without the consent of the victim." So simple comments, or whistling or whatever, is not rape, and in a lot of cases, not signaling rape, granted the few exceptions to that when a pervert or mentally ill person or, like you and me both stated, intoxicated individuals is trying for that. Actual rape is committed by a criminal, typically in a bad place at a bad time, every man i know would stop a rape and send the guy committing it (if it was a guy) to hell. Men who whistle or say things like that are typically immature and typically don't know the right way to get to know a woman, the oppression you feel is most definitely not the oppression that you face, it is the oppression that you imagine. As for a casual greeting on the street, it really could be a member of the community saying hello, or someone who is fairly extroverted looking to make conversation to trying to interact with the environment and the people in it. Again, feminism is a fight against imaginary oppression.

"This is rape culture," again,, a culture that does not exist. Women do have more emotions than men, that is where biology trumps ideology. The fact that women have menstrual cycles and more hormones. I wouldn't quite call it crazy, it is science, science that is the contradiction of everything you just wrote about the word hysterical, notice how you said that it does not happen anymore (not hysterectomy's, women being called insane and being forced to have one) it doesn't happen anymore, because science has developed and we know that the belief is illogical. Notice how you said it used to happen in the 19th century, before we had something known as, "women's suffrage." Science has developed and we no know that is not true. Video games that rape? you mean the illicit ones that are banned? or the ones that don't exist? If there is a video game that depicts rape or sex or something, it most likely is for the story line and is a part of a characters personality, no one is advising or condoning rape, and no one is thinking about committing it or taking part in a rape. Courts that protect rapists? It takes a real vivid imagination for someone to think a man accused of rape has any chance at making it through the legal system without being in jail or prison, including men who get falsely accused of rap, then you truly have never seen a real life involving a man on trial for rape. What she was wearing, can be relevant, in some situations, rapists are the lowest form of life, in prison they get punished for what they did both legally and physically by other prisoners, what they get in prison is what they deserve.

I would like to prod something from another angle, men getting raped. It happens, men get raped by women, especially under aged guys getting raped by a woman, or by another man. Men do get raped too, and it does just as much damage to them mentally as it does women, rape is not gender specific. Like i pointed out in last paragraph, men who go to prison for rape, regardless of if they did it or not, get raped. They get the living daylights beaten out of them, they have to forever register as a sex offender, again, regardless of if they did it or not. The catholic priest touching little boy joke didn't come from no where, in fact there is some truth to that. It's not specific to priests either, it happens in a lot of places. When men get raped by women, they are told they are strange/gay and that they should have liked it. Whats that? That never happens? The recent case of molly Shattuck says other wise. In fact this proves my point, that women are favored when it comes to legal issues, because she is only spending 48 weekends in jail for this disgusting act. No, not weeks, weekends. If we were to flip this situation around, and a guy were to preform an illegal sex act on a girl like this, then he would be serving way more time in prison. Which brings me to the point that, women get easier sentences and men will always receive a harsher punishment for the same crime.

Another thing i would like to discuss would be false rape accusations. They happen, a lot. I personally know a few different guys who got in trouble off of a simple accusation and were, in fact, held guilty until proven innocent. This is becoming a huge issue, it completely screws them over, for a long time. First, they go through their sentence in jail or prison, with people thinking they actually did it, so naturally, they get treated like someone who did it. Again, look up or watch a documentary or ask someone who has seen it, you will find all you need to know and more. Then, they have to get out of jail and everyone around them thinks that about them, plus they have to be registered. All because some girl got a little pissed off and wanted something awful to happen to him, or whatever their reason was. It ruins lives, and it is overlooked, a lot. Go ahead and tell me that there is a good reason for it to happen, because there is no logical reason for a man who did not commit rape to go to jail for rape.

I enjoyed your arguments, and hope to see another, good luck next round.


As you have presented absolutely no evidence to support any of your claims, I have no choice but to disregard them as fabricated. For the sake of the debate, however, I will provide my final argument and a rebuttal disproving the arguments you have concocted.

1: Women in Government/Capability-

The PEW Research Center conducted a study on why there are not more women in government positions, finding that "topping the list of reasons, about four-in-ten Americans point to a double standard for women seeking to climb to the highest levels of either politics or business, where they have to do more than their male counterparts to prove themselves." Women are considered as less intelligent as men, a theory based in a centuries old practice of preventing female education. Time Magazine has found that, contradicting that theory, more women enter the workforce with four years of college or more than men. Men are generally paid more and awarded more prestigious jobs than women as a commanding man is viewed as a confident while a commanding woman is considered a bitch. Naomi Wolff, a feminist activist, found that "Young women, especially, suffer from discrimination in the workplace when they are seen as “too” aesthetically appealing. Many workplaces channel conventionally attractive young women into out-front support, or subordinate, jobs, in which their appearance – as they bring coffee to high-status men in meetings – can add value to the corporate “brand,” though no value is being added to their own careers." A woman's competency is not taken into evaluation nearly as much as her looks, creating a double standard between men and women. This double standard exists in government as well as regular companies. Let me remind you that when Hillary announced her presidential campaign, everyone was up in arms questioning her ability to adequately run with a single grandchild on the way. The very same people were ready and willing to vote for Romney in 2012, despite his litter of grandchildren. The double standard is clearly visible between these two candidates, and exists all throughout government.

2: American Female Objectification

Objectification is not an illusion women have created. These advertisements are an objectification, sexualizing women's bodies to sell their product, yes, but to draw the eyes of men. Have you ever noticed how many clothing advertisements exhibit photos of half-naked, or completely naked women? Have you ever noticed how many ads feature women's bodies cutting out the head so the focus is the breasts or the butt? That right there is an example of how women's bodies are used to the appeal of society. I will agree that periodically there are ads containing the same material using a male model, but this ad is much less frequent and often ignored next to it's female counterpart or competitor. Your argument that "As for a 12 year old wearing yoga pants, that is an issue with their parents, parents should not let their daughters walk around dressed like that if they are at all concerned about that," plays into the sexualization of women starting at a very young age. Here you are agreeing that 12 year old girls in yoga pants is too sexy and too revealing, and thus is wrong. You are perpetuating the problem by sexualizing a 12 year old girl. That right there is objectification. The problems my family and friends have had are the result of this same mindset. You proved my point that objectification exists when you said her parents should never have let her out of the house. Using your logic of "but it most likely was you at fault" if the very same 12 year old girl in yoga pants was assaulted by the 50 year old man, would he get off Scot-free? She brought it onto herself by wearing yoga pants right? Your entire argument is worthless as you have proved my point of the existence of objectification.

3: Respect-

Contrary to (apparently) popular belief women do not receive "copious" amounts of respect. This argument ties into my previous argument in the existence of objectification and sexualization, as people do not often give adequate respect to things they see as objects. Until women are not objectified and are afforded the same opportunities in the workplace, we will not have equal respect.

4: Rape/Rape Culture-

I believe you may have never actually considered the concept of feminism. A feminist is a person who believes in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes. Often, feminists are associated solely with women's rights as that is the main concern. Women are treated far less equally than men, but that does not mean men deserve nothing. We understand male rape exists. Contrary to what you may believe, or what you have heard, but feminists do not exclude or condone male rape. We do not excuse it, or believe it does not exist. Female rape is committed far more often. Using a statistic from the Washington Coalition of Sexual Assault Programs, its known that, "Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes." Male rape, though not less important, occurs much less often according to a statistic from the National Crime Victimization Survey, "
In asking 40,000 households about rape and sexual violence, the survey uncovered that 38 percent of incidents were against men." Feminism does not discount these crimes against men. Often, feminist organizations try to help these male victims. This practice is just less prevalent and not as well known as male rape is no where near as common as female rape. According to the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network, "1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime" as well as the fact that "15% of sexual assault and rape victims are under age 12." These statistics show how prevalent rape is in our culture. Though you may not know it, you more than likely know multiple women who have been raped or assaulted. These rapists, though it does happen, are not always "committed by a criminal, typically in a bad place at a bad time". In fact, about 4/5 rapes are committed by someone the victim knows and about 47% are committed by a friend. This victim blaming, which you have just done,

Concerning street harassment, "98% of
women surveyed in 2008 reported that they had experienced cat-calling and harassment.” though 2008 was several years ago, this number has not changed much, if at all. this harassment has been shown to cause depression as it weakens self worth and self actualization, a basic human need according to Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. Cat calling can induce stress, which over a period of time can lead to hypertension, weight gain or loss, nausea, chronic pain, and depression. Predatory stress can cause inflammation of the brain in several different locations. Cat calling can actually lead to physical sickness from fear and stress.

5: Hysterical:

I do admit that forced hysterectomies do not occur much in the United States in this century. this does not mean they never happened. This does not mean it is okay because it doesn't happen anymore. The history of the word and its continued use is what perpetuated the idea of violence towards women. Even if the procedure is no longer practiced, the idea is still around.

6: Conclusion-

As none of your “facts” have any substance and no backup whatsoever, I have no option to but assume they are fabricated. Please do not throw empty assumptions at your opponent if you have absolutely no fact to base it in.

I would like to reiterate the fact that feminism is not an evil, “man-hating” belief. We are a group of people, both men and women, invested in the complete equality of all people. We are not a violent group. We simply believe in equality.

7: Sources-

Debate Round No. 2


I will admit i forgot to post evidence about molly shattucks case, which i will put the link for at the end of this argument. You did manage to ignore several valid points in my last post, that came from basic logic and reasoning, but i will say you didn't post a whole lot supporting your claims, specifically the origin of the word hysterical, , actually your only sources that supported your argument were statistics, one of which would not load on my computer, i also could not find anything in your argument about drugs or alcohol playing a roll in any rapes. All the hypocrisy aside i will provide an argument for its own sake. Before i begin i would like to point out that if feminists do support equality and equal rights, why are they called feminists? The word itself leans towards an ideology of women being superior, if they were about equality they would be called equalists, or something with no bias towards women or men. This is not the case.

1-women in government-

Recent polling has found that 76 percent of voters agreed that it does not matter whether the candidate is a woman or a man, and 19 percent said that it would actually make them vote for the woman.Voters actually perceive them as hardworking and less corruptible. 26 percent of women candidates ran for the job. again, proving my point that less women run for the position of president or a place in congress, and that their interest has actually dropped in the last ten years in pursuing one. Men's interest appears to have stayed the same.( The reason again, people not voting for Clinton simply don't find her qualified and hypocritical. Women who are qualified will always beat a man who is not qualified or less qualified, it depends on the woman herself, how skilled she is and how hard she works, and what the employer needs and if she fits the professional criteria for the position. the question is not man or woman, the question is who is qualified and works harder. This is proven by looking into the past, and how women are more common in hire up positions and politics than they once were, and how far they have come, since women's suffrage.

2-women's objectification
Why would they be trying to sell women's clothes to men? Ads on tv with completely nude women are not allowed to air, so no, i can't say i have noticed that. There are plenty of ads that are so called, "objectifying" men, and make us look like muscular skinny, cold hearted sob's. This again, is simply advertising, it is how companies sell their product, and how they make money, is on how they advertise. Food commercials use the same tactic, portraying their product so people can see it and so they want to buy it, but they are not using certain angles or set ups so that it will be more appealing, they advertise it how it is and nothing more. People may interpret it a certain way, as with clothes or makeup, that it will make them look a certain way or that they need to, but that is their interpretation. Not what was actually said. About the young girl wearing yoga pants, any objectifying found in that example is of their own finding. Wearing something that is revealing is going to catch the eye of a pervert, or pedophile, simply because those people are out their lurking is why they should consider not wearing them. That is not objectification, that is mental illness and criminal thinking and interest. Women objectify themselves and shift the blame onto men. By looking in a mirror and saying, :i am not pretty enough." and using make up and revealing clothing is self objectification. Yes, you indeed are responsible for this concept, it is a product of low self esteem, common in young ages and that my friend is why men objectifying women is an imaginary concept. A lot of men, including myself, recognize that women have feelings and ideas and are just as valid of a person as any man is. The difference is between a man, and an @sshole. The latter being someone who thinks solely of himself and treats men and women equally negative.
You somehow managed to ignore everything about false rape accusations which infer that women do have more general respect. Or the fact that they have doors opened for them when entering or leaving a building, or that they have cheaper insurance, or that if a man where to hit a woman, he would have all hell dropped on his head legally and physically by anybody watching and able to intervene. where as a woman hitting a man would be looked over, in fact men face harsher punishments compared to women who committed the same crime. i will post a link from at the end of this for you to explore the subject of how men are treated worse than women.
4-rape/rape culture

Now i will begin by asking where the threat of immediate rape is, from cat calling, if most rapes start from a friend or someone previously known? Not gonna belabor anything here, just simply stating a contradiction. What exactly is your point here? All I see are statistics stating more women get raped then men do. While i think it might be fair to say this is true in some cases, it isn't in every case. In prison, A lot of men get raped, in fact it would make a compareable statistic to how many women are raped outside of prison, I can't find an exact number for how many women are raped yearly, but according to the daily mail, " In 2008 it was estimated that 21600 inmates were sexually assaulted while serving time, according to DOJ figures. That is comparable to the 90,479 rape cases outside of prison."
I don't think a resolution for this is teaching boys not to rape, most know this, and know what they are doing when they rape is wrong. it is the fact that some are mentally ill and have criminal mindset. Women might consider learning self defense tactics and carry self defense items, as well as avoiding and DE-escalating situations, and know that these sick individuals are lurking. Nobody jokes about raping women, it is not talked up by men, it is not condoned by anyone, it seriously is those with issues that have not been addressed.
You provided no source for this, again, so I should ignore it, with your logic. I will pick it apart for the sake of it though. I have never thought that is a logical thing to do, and now-a-days would be laughed at and scoffed by any right-minded or educated individual. Considering you said yourself, "many do not know they origin of the word," I would definitely say the idea is not around anymore.
6-false rape accusations.
False rape accusations happen a lot, and is as common as rape itself. reports that, "A review of 556 rape accusations filed against Air Force personnel found that 27% of women later recanted. Then 25 criteria were developed based on the profile of those women, and then submitted to three independent reviewers to review the remaining cases. If all three reviewers deemed the allegation was false, it was categorized as false. As a result, 60% of all allegations were found to be false.1 Of those women who later recanted, many didn't admit the allegation was false until just before taking a polygraph test. Others admitted it was false only after having failed a polygraph test" proof is right there. Makes me scared sometimes, and floors me that someone could be so sociopathic and psychotic to accuse someone of something so horrible.
6-You as well barely provided sources other than a few statistics for rape, you may also consider not throwing empty assumptions at your opponent as you have advised me to do.


1 The word itself
"The advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men." This is the definition of feminism. It says that feminism supports women's rights for the equality of the sexes. Simply because it uses the root "fem-" or "femi-" does not mean feminists automatically disavow others who are discriminated against. Simply because you are an American does not mean you automatically disavow, say, the French. Just because one believes in and supports a certain group of people does not mean one automatically loses all feeling and respect towards another.

2 Objectification
I have never said ads have aired completely nude women. Look up a Victoria's Secret commercial. Those women are almost completely nude. Much of the store's advertising does go towards men in an effort to sell bras as gifts, etc. Yes, these ads are catered towards men. Many other clothing lines and companies use a similar tactic.
As for the situation with a young girl in yoga pants, those clothes are not revealing. A twelve year old girl (or one of a similar age) should not be considered sexy by anyone. Though you may believe it's a mental illness, it's not (well, pedophilia is). It is sexualization. This act is taught to boys at a young age by people like you who don't see it as a problem because often "nothing" comes of it. Often, the girl is not raped, so it's taught to be okay. Women are taught to believe we're not good enough, not skinny enough, and not beautiful enough by men like you who believe it's okay to criticize every aspect of a woman's body. Don't try to tell me you have never walked by a woman and said something like "I would hit that," or "Look at her a*s." Do not try to tell me you have never shouted a crude comment at a woman. Do not tell me you have not criticized a women for aspects of her body that you do not see as aesthetically pleasing. Women aren't responsible for the rude, disrespectful comments men make about her as though she is there for their satisfaction. Our "low self-esteem" is given to us by people like you who insist it's in our heads. Let me tell you, sir, it's not. It's degrading to hear from a young age that your body is something to be ashamed of, that you aren't good enough. It is degrading to be treated as something that is simply there for male satisfaction. That is what lowers self esteem. Your treatment followed by your persisting argument that it never happened, or doesn't exist.

3 Respect
This idea ties in with objectification. I don't ignore false rape accusations. There is only so much space in these argument slots, after all. I will concede that women do fake rape. Women do sometimes lie about it. And that's not right. It casts doubt on the women who aren't lying and insights questioning into a time that's devastating. I would like to address the fact that YOU are the very reason why feminism exists. You state that "women do have more general respect. Or the fact that they have doors opened for them when entering or leaving a building,". Your argument is insinuating that because a man may open a door for a woman then she automatically receives more respect? How about all the times women will hold the door or an elevator for you? How about all the times a woman will let you cut in front of her at the supermarket because you have fewer items? Just because you hold the door for a person does not mean they are automatically treated with respect. Being shouted at on the street isn't a sign of respect. Getting paid 70 cents to every dollar a man makes is not respect. Being told "Get back in the kitchen and make me a sandwich" is not respect. I do not know where you got the idea that women are treated with more respect but I can promise you that is false.
You also state that "they have cheaper insurance,". The reason for this is a simple one. I believe the insurance to which you are referring is car insurance. A study conducted by Quality Planning (a research firm that works to provide information for insurance companies) found, "Men are 3.4 times more likely than women to get a ticket for reckless driving and 3.1 times as likely to be cited for drunk driving." The study says, "Women are on average less aggressive and more law-abiding drivers -- attributes that lead to fewer accidents." These auto companies are not giving women lower insurance rates because they feel a higher level of respect towards them. Women get lower auto insurance rates because women are safer drivers, contrary to the popular stereotype.

4 Rape/Rape Culture
I would ask you to revisit my previous argument for rape and rape culture as it seems you may have glided past a few statistics. Cat-calling is not always a threat of immediate rape. Often it is done on the streets by men who think so little of women they believe it is alright to say whatever comes to mind. Cat-calling promotes rape culture because often cat-calls are in the form of crude comments that have some basis in sex. These comments are without consent and are unwarranted. They promote the idea that women are here to satisfy men. it encourages the idea that women are subordinate to men and the idea that it is completely fine to say whatever one wants to a woman.
You state, "All I see are statistics stating more women get raped then men do. While I think it might be fair to say this is true in some cases, it isn't in every case." I agree with you. it is true that in many cases, women are raped more often, but it isn't every case. I agree because the cases of rape not involving a woman involve a man. There are only two options. I am simply stating that female rape is far more common than male. I am not disregarding male rape as unimportant.
One of the resolutions to this is to teach boys not to rape. If boys grow up learning that this behaviour is unacceptable, they will be much less likely to perform these acts of oppression towards women. Simply teaching self defense tactics is not enough. Telling women to avoid these situations is not an option as the only way to avoid these situations is to never leave the house, never go on the Internet, and never have contact with the outside world. The solution to this is to teach society that it is not right. This is the reason behind feminism. It is to educate people on the inequality women suffer and try to rectify it.

5 Hysterical
The treatment itself may not still be used today in first world countries, but the idea that women are crazy simply because of we are women has not disappeared. The evidence of that is plain throughout your argument.

6 False rape accusations
Many women do not report rape out of fear of their attacker as well as fear of shame, disgust, blame, and laughter inflicted upon them. I do not condone false rape accusations. Feminism does not support this. It floors me how someone could be so sociopathic and psychotic to accuse someone of something so horrible as forcing them to have sex against their will and treating them like second class citizens.

7 Conclusion
Your argument has been based on assumptions and biased, invalid sites. You provided essentially no sources and the ones you did contained many false statistics and "facts".
You are the exact reason why we need feminism. It's not entirely your fault you think this way, it's just the way our society is right now, it's the way you were raised. But feminism is the belief this is wrong and unfair. Women are still sexualized and treated as objects, as things there simply for the amusement of men. This behavior is prevalent in America today. Feminism is the fight against female inequality. We do not condone inequality of others. We simply want equality for all people. (browse this one)
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by theargumentativedude 2 years ago
I disagree, but I agree we should leave it how it is, we'll be here all night lol. You too
Posted by queenmary 2 years ago
Personal experience and emotions can hinder an argument, but in this case, they simply enforce several of my points. The Huffington Post article was far less biased than both of your two sources. I supported my argument with all the evidence I could. There are portions that could not be supported by an article as they were scenarios but those fit in with everything else I did provide evidence for.

The debate is over at this point. I am not interested in hashing out details with you right now. Have a good night.
Posted by theargumentativedude 2 years ago
But when logic comes into play emotions hinder it, and huffington post is by far the most biased site I have ever laid eyes upon, I definitely completely forgot to post them the first time but did show that I had them and provided them in the last post, on the other hand your argument had pieces in it that were not supported by anything you posted, all I was saying, it is quite hypocritical which kills an entire argument, but agreed, thank you for debating and good luck In other discussions! :)
Posted by queenmary 2 years ago
I disagree with you again here. Emotions show passion about a topic. My emotions do not hinder my argument, but enhance it as I have actually experienced everything that I referenced. I was not wrong in calling out your attitude as it is the perfect example to support my argument. I did not address your comment about my "hypocrisy" because I had posted my sources. You, on the other hand, did not post sources in your arguments until I called you out about it, and when you did, they were biased, often opinion based articles. I won't hold any hard feelings. I'm not the grudge-holding kind of person. I do hope that you try to keep an open mind towards feminism and realize we aren't a horrible, man-hating group. I look forward to debating you on other subjects in the future. Thank you, and good luck on future debates:)
Posted by theargumentativedude 2 years ago
Your last post was quite emotional and not very professional, you made quite a few assumptions (false I may add) and definitely took it to heart a bit. Emotions have no place in a logical debate, if you would have looked at my last comment you will definitely see the rest of my sources, you still did not address the fact that you yourself did not source everything and called me out on that, feminist hypocrisy at its finest. I still did enjoy the debate and hope you don't hold any hard feelings and would enjoy debating some of these topics individually, as we did not have much space for each argument. Much respect, and thank you
Posted by theargumentativedude 2 years ago
I greatly enjoyed this argument, and invite you to discuss some of these issues solely so that we may be able to discuss more in depth of each of them. I thank you for taking the time to discuss these topics. I Could not fit all my sources in my argument so here are the last of them.
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