The Instigator
Jason57
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
dtien400
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Modern feminism (in America) is relevant.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/26/2016 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 350 times Debate No: 90218
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

Jason57

Con

This is a very open debate. Not many formalities - as I am new to debating. However, I wish to debate against an actual feminist.

I'll give you a few definitions:

Feminism:
the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.
(Google search definition)

Relevant:
closely connected or appropriate to the matter at hand.
(Google seach definition)

My stance, simply put, is this:

Feminism is irrelevant in modern America because women are as equal if not more equal than men in todays world. The feminist cause to elevate women to an equal status is now obselete.

That is my simlpe stance. In the first round, you, whoever my opponent may be, may refute it, may state your own opening stance, or may simply just accept the challenge.

Good luck
dtien400

Pro

Hello, my name is dtien, a second-wave feminist, and I accept this challenge.

OPENING STANCE: Feminism is relevant in modern America because while men and women are equal overall, there are some regards to which women have advantages over men and men have advantages over women. Therefore, men and women are equally unequal. Due to these situations where fair treatment of the genders has not yet been achieved, both men and women's rights groups are necessary to work towards equality. Feminism is a movement dedicated to women's rights and therefore relevant. Furthermore, even if women's rights have been fully achieved, feminism would still be relevant because feminists still exist and take action that affects other people, thereby making themselves relevant.

Good luck to my opponent! I hope that those viewing enjoy this debate and I cannot wait for the next round.
Debate Round No. 1
Jason57

Con

First off, I would like to acknowledge that you are not a radical feminist, which is what I was expecting. This is not a bad thing. In all honesty, I don't strictly disagree with moderate feminist ideology, but I still have some things I would like to point out. And when I say moderate, I do mean the less radical participants of second-wave feminism.

So, like the definition stated, feminism is the fight for equality among men and women. However, you claimed that "men and women are equal overall" so this diminishes the need for feminism in our modern world does it not? It can easily be understood, or misunderstood, depending on your opinion, that the ongoing feminist society is not at all concerned with equal rights anymore, that they are concerned with being catered to, to be favored in modern politics. This is already the case for some things like child custody and rape. Yes, yes I know, mostly men rape and most women are better caretakers than their partner in conception, but still. This is the gateway. It's the cigar that lead to rampant cigarette addiction.

So, what I am trying to get at is this: what's the point of it if it's truly meant to obtain equal rights for women. It becomes obsolete. And if it is shifting towards community service or what not, what the point of feminism do this? For females to gain brownie points? If community service is now truly a goal, organization such as the Peace Core and others are already in place to accomplish these tasks. So whats the point? To my understanding, feminism is a complex subject and to prevent confusion and misunderstanding about its actual goal (while its main, implied goal is accomplished), that is so commonly ushers in, it should just dissipate.

The less confusion, the greater our society.
dtien400

Pro

dtien400 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Jason57

Con

Jason57 forfeited this round.
dtien400

Pro

Hello everyone. I thank my opponent for his/her input!

The Rebuttals:

(I will quote Pro's argument first, and then rebut it)

1) Pro: "However, you claimed that "men and women are equal overall" so this diminishes the need for feminism in our modern world does it not? It can easily be understood, or misunderstood, depending on your opinion, that the ongoing feminist society is not at all concerned with equal rights anymore, that they are concerned with being catered to, to be favored in modern politics. This is already the case for some things like child custody and rape."

I agree that the need for feminism has been diminished in modern society, but a diminished need is still a need nonetheless. I stated that there are situations where "fair treatment of the genders has not yet been achieved," a point that proves feminism is needed and relevant but Pro has yet to rebut (my proof of this statement is below under The Assertion). As to modern feminism being interested in only being "catered to," where are Pro's citations and proof? Even if modern feminism is about favoring women over men, that doesn't mean feminism can never revert to its roots and start helping only women who are truly in need again.

2) Pro: "What's the point of it (feminism) if it's truly meant to obtain equal rights for women. It becomes obsolete."

Pro asks what the point of feminism is and then states the "point" in his/her definition. The point of feminism is to obtain equal rights for women. In order for feminism to become obsolete, Pro would have to prove that women are equal to men in every single regard. This proof has not yet been delivered.

3) "And if it (feminism) is shifting towards community service or what not, what the point of feminism to do this? For females to gain brownie points? If community service is now truly a goal, organization such as the Peace Core and others are already in place to accomplish these tasks. So what's the point?"

Feminism has always been about community service. Women are a community, and feminism has been taking actions to serve this community by providing them with equal rights and opportunities. The fact that other organizations that help women exist doesn't negate the need for feminism. Yes, the Peace Core exists, but has it eradicated every women-specific inequity in the U.S.? No. More people working to help women means more women being helped. Feminism is very much a community and it provides opportunities to learn about inequality and to work towards the end of that inequality. Feminism has been an outlet for bettering lives throughout its whole existence. "So what's the point?" The point is to better lives. Feminism has the potential to better lives, therefore it is relevant.

4) "To my understanding, feminism is a complex subject and to prevent confusion and misunderstanding about its actual goal (while its main, implied goal is accomplished), that is so commonly ushers in, it should just dissipate. The lesser confusion, the greater our society."

Where is Pro's proof that feminism is confusing to people? Where is Pro's proof that the main goal of feminism has already been accomplished?

The Ignored:

As I said in my opening stance, "even if women's rights have been fully achieved, feminism would still be relevant because feminists still exist and take action that affects other people, thereby making themselves relevant." Pro completely ignored this point.

Pro argues that feminism should be irrelevant. This debate isn't about what should be irrelevant, but what is irrelevant. How is feminism irrelevant? If feminism was truly "obsolete," then we would not be having this debate. For the "feminist cause" to be "obsolete," Pro would have to prove feminism is no longer needed. Where is that proof? Where is the proof that "women are as equal if not more equal than men?"

The Judgement:

Pro's argument entirely contains claims without proof.
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." (Christopher Hitchens).

The Assertion:

In my opening stance, I stated that "there are some regards to which women have advantages over men and men have advantages over women."

By proving this true, I will prove that there is gender inequality towards men and women, therefore proving feminism is relevant, as feminism is a means to fight gender inequality.

And my assertion is that the WAGE GAP, while often misreported and lacking necessary variables (such as occupation, hours worked, etc), is real.

My citations below provides findings from a Glassdoor study.

1. Female computer programmers, chefs, and dentists with "the same job title, at similar companies, in the same state, with similar levels of education and experience" as men in their occupation make 72 cents to their male counterpart's dollars.
2. The wage gap goes both ways. In my citation you can read that there are occupations where women earn more than men with "the same job title, at similar companies, in the same state, with similar levels of education and experience," one example being as a social worker.

The wage gap is gender inequality. Feminism fights gender inequality. Feminism is relevant.

http://money.cnn.com...

Thanks to those viewing and thanks to my opponent!
Debate Round No. 3
Jason57

Con

Jason57 forfeited this round.
dtien400

Pro

dtien400 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Jason57

Con

Jason57 forfeited this round.
dtien400

Pro

dtien400 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by iceman12338 7 months ago
iceman12338
damn, this looks like it could be good
Posted by MagicAintReal 7 months ago
MagicAintReal
What does "more equal" mean?
Posted by Vict0rian 7 months ago
Vict0rian
Okay never mind no ones gonna say anything.
Posted by Vict0rian 7 months ago
Vict0rian
OoooOoOOOOO~ This is gonna get entertaining
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