The Instigator
Pricetag
Pro (for)
Winning
42 Points
The Contender
patriots16-0
Con (against)
Losing
13 Points

Moral relativism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/12/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,397 times Debate No: 1735
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (20)
Votes (17)

 

Pricetag

Pro

We had a debate yesterday and now I'm reading a debate that you're having with some other kid about the same topic and absolutely trash talking me. Put your money where your mouth is and let's go. Moral relativism is a common and completely logical philosophical position. I have a problem with you painting me as a Nazi supporter because I believe in moral relativism and killing jews is not what I'm about. Man up and debate me.
patriots16-0

Con

YOU SAID IN OUR LAST DEBATE
"I will say it, Hitler was not wrong in doing what he did. He was harmful, he was tyrannical, he was genocidal; however, he was not wrong because there is no such thing as right and wrong."

Is that the way Atheists think, I mean how people voted for you is mind boggiling to me. Maby you thaught that my poins were bad, BUT READ THAT "HITLER WAS NOT WRONG" i mean C'mon you have learned that in elementry through high school. If there is no such thing as write and wrong then i could do whatever i wanted i could RAPE, KILL, STEEL, SELL DRUGS. I mean the list goes on and on, if you say that there is no write and wrong then why do we need jails why does our goverment even need a judicerary section in the goverment. Do you see the chaos that would go on in the earth if if it were like what you just described. You no what would happen if the world had no write or wrong to it everyone would be murdering, stealing, raping all over the place. I mean how do YOU LIVE like that where your morals are "HITLER WASNT WRONG, AND THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS WRITE AND WRONG." If you said that there is no such thing as rite and wrong then i would be interested to know what your morals are what you live by. Also if there is no such thing as write and wrong why do you even support certain issuse on your public profile. You are the stupidist 19 year old i have ever talked to in my life and this is why. and i have to capitilize all of this because this is just to good.

You say that it is ok that Hittler killed 6000000 inoccent jews not just killed them but tortured them and had most of them die creul and unusuall deaths that is what you are saying that when you say "Hitler was not wrong in doing what he did." But this is when you get even more of a moron. YOU ARE AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY. It says that on your public profile dont deny it. you have CONTRIDICTED yourself in so badly it actually is funny lolololol you are a moron.

So this is what you are saying that its ok for Hitler to kill 6000000 innocent jews but its not ok for us to kill men that were mostly proven guilty in court. You no what price tag your not stupid, you not a moron, your crazy and you need held i recomend a sychologyst as soon as possible. lol
Debate Round No. 1
Pricetag

Pro

First of all I want to say to the observers that I usually don't result to such angry rhetoric but I take personal offense in being painted as a Nazi, as I was by my opponent in a different debate that he was engaged in. I will outline my personal views later because my opponent asked me about them.

To my opponent please, please stop generalizing. First of all, I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic. Second of all, atheism is an extremely broad term which has only one requirement; that requirement being that you don't have a belief in God, there is no other unifying characteristic for atheists but that belief.

Now that that's out of the way let's get to the argument:
You say that...

"If there is no such thing as write and wrong then i could do whatever i wanted i could RAPE, KILL, STEEL, SELL DRUGS."

You can do that now, there's nothing stopping you from doing it but the possible consequences. You go on to say...

"if you say that there is no write and wrong then why do we need jails why does our goverment even need a judicerary section in the goverment. Do you see the chaos that would go on in the earth if if it were like what you just described. You no what would happen if the world had no write or wrong to it everyone would be murdering, stealing, raping all over the place."

Not at all. What you miss is that people are innately cooperative because it serves themselves. I don't kill someone or steal from someone because that action could come back to me by retaliation. It is our ability to work together that has made us the most dominant species on the face of the planet. However, some do act out in those aforementioned items and you claim that since there is no right or wrong and since everyone is justified in their actions then why would there be a need for prisons or a penal system? The reason is that justification works retroactively. If everyone is justified for his or her own actions than I am justified in putting you in prison for killing someone. Just as you are for that murder.

As to "morals" you asked and I will tell. As I have stated I do not believe in "morals" because ethics and morality are subjective to the best interests of that particular person. I do have ideas though and those ideas say that I should be able to do whatever I want as long as it does not harm others. This idea is based off of my other ideas of individual liberty and compassion. I think that generosity and love and kindness work in the best interest of my self and my community and the world as a whole.

"You say that it is ok that Hittler killed 6000000 inoccent jews not just killed them but tortured them and had most of them die creul and unusuall deaths that is what you are saying that when you say "Hitler was not wrong in doing what he did." But this is when you get even more of a moron. YOU ARE AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY."

I never said it is "ok" in fact I said it is "despicable" what Hitler did, but that does not mean that it is wrong because there is no right or wrong. Right and wrong are objective terms and unlike others I am not so arrogant as to think that I know what everyone on the earth should do in any case, whether that means murder or charity. My personal idea is that the death penalty shouldn't be used for several reasons, among them being the lack of cost efficiency, the lack of the death penalty to deter murder, and the sometimes inaccuracy of the process resulting in the death of an innocent person. I personally see that as a bad thing; however, I don't assume that I know all. As Socrates would say "I know nothing". So, I do not expect everyone to accept my ideas as I cannot prove that they are the best or absolute fact. My opinion is that my ideas are the best and I will try to persuade people to agree with me, but I do not proclaim that my ideas are absolute, because no ideas are.

Finally please, don't call me a moron and an idiot until you learn to use correct grammar and spelling. I mean the spell check button is right there, it's not that hard to use.
patriots16-0

Con

1"As to "morals" you asked and I will tell. As I have stated I do not believe in "morals" because ethics and morality are subjective to the best interests of that particular person."

2 "I never said it is "ok" in fact I said it is "despicable" what Hitler did, but that does not mean that it is wrong because there is no right or wrong."

These 2 sentances that you have stated are toatal contridictions because in one you state that "I do not believe in morals." but then you state in your next sentance that you say that Hitler is "despicable" well that sounds like you have morals to me because because if there is a world with no right and wrong then why do you belive that Hitler was despicable oh, and what else did you say in our last debate that was being held, oh yes you said he was trynnacial, and he was genocidal. Well how do those play into yor life if you have no morals. Because clearly you have said that in the above sentance #1.

despicable—Synonyms vile, mean, detestable
Vile: wretchedly bad

I hope you agree with the fallowing defanitions because they are directly from the dictionary. Obviously if you have said that Hitler is dispicable which means vile and vile means BAD. Then you do belive that Hitler is wrong because you said he was despicable. You have just contridicted yourself. Or maby you still dont belive that Hitler is wrong in killing 6 million jews but you have still admited it none the less. I hope anybody who is judging this compition realizes what my opponent has just said and I hope you realze that he has contridicted himself.

YOU SAY
"My personal idea is that the death penalty shouldn't be used for several reasons, among them being the lack of cost efficiency, the lack of the death penalty to deter murder, and the sometimes inaccuracy of the process resulting in the death of an innocent person. I personally see that as a bad thing; however, I don't assume that I know all."

1 So basically what you are saying is that you think the death penalty should be illigal because if someone were to die when they were innocent that would be BAD. Well, first of all you have contridicted yourself again by saying that "I PERSONALLY see that as a BAD thing. Because you say earlier that you have no morals well SEEING somthing as BAD. Is automatically saying that it has morals because BAD is a moral in its self.
2 Now here is another way you CONTRIDICTED your self you say that Hitler was not wrong in killing 6000000 jews.
Hitler did not just kill them he tortured them. Now on your Public Profile you say that I am against the Death penalty. So this is what you are saying, that It was not wrong for Hitler to kill 600000 innocent Jews but it is wrong for us to kill people that have raped, killed, malested and on and on.
3 How can you even say the death penalty is wrong if you say you have no morals and if you have no morals then everything is ok for you to do because morals are of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes.

PLEASE ANSWERE THE FALLOWING QUESTION IN YOUR NEXT ARGUMENT: Did you or did you not contridict yourself in the fallowing 2 statements.

1"As to "morals" you asked and I will tell. As I have stated I do not believe in "morals" because ethics and morality are subjective to the best interests of that particular person."

2 "I never said it is "ok" in fact I said it is "despicable" what Hitler did, but that does not mean that it is wrong because there is no right or wrong."

Because first you say you have no morals and then you say that Hitler was "despicable" for what he did. Well if you have no morals and there is no such sa right and wrong to you then what does then how are you even calling Hitler despicable.
Debate Round No. 2
Pricetag

Pro

In your last post you asked me the question:

"Did you or did you not contridict yourself in the fallowing 2 statements.

1'As to 'morals' you asked and I will tell. As I have stated I do not believe in 'morals' because ethics and morality are subjective to the best interests of that particular person.'

2 'I never said it is 'ok' in fact I said it is 'despicable' what Hitler did, but that does not mean that it is wrong because there is no right or wrong.'"

Your entire post centered around this and therefore I will answer your question and ignore the rest of it, because it all had to do with this question.

No, I did not contradict myself in any way. I may have not adequately stated earlier what I meant but I assure you my statements were not contradictions. The point you seem to be missing is between objective and subjective. Right and wrong are in their nature objective terms. They aim at making everyone agree with some idea or cause. They can be used for good or for evil, but are very dangerous terms. For example: Jews and Muslims are wrong for denying the divinity of Jesus. That idea has lead to the deaths of millions of people. Another example: It is wrong to question the (insert authority here). That idea prevalent throughout society has led to oppression, slavery, genocide, et cetera. However I will say I believe that Hitler was despicable in what he did, that I believe that the death penalty is a poor system. I use these terms because I want to express my personal feelings and thus not seem so arrogant as to know what is truly right or wrong. Who knows, perhaps at some point in the future a genetic disease will surface amongst the jews and the only way to save humanity is to kill them. My point is this, we can't judge people as right or wrong because we do not have the knowledge or the agreement amongst our people to do so. Right and wrong are dangerous terms and have been used and continue to be used by many to move towards an armageddon (Ahdmanijad in Iran being amongst them). So, I urge caution in using those terms and emphasize use of terms that show you're personal feelings but do not force others to feel the need to conform around them.
patriots16-0

Con

Your debate on moral relativism is all very contradictory you say that "No, I did not contradict myself in any way. I may have not adequately stated earlier what I meant but I assure you my statements were not contradictions." Well actually Pricetag you did contradict yourself and your debates to prove that you did not were not very convincing to me. And I will explain again how you contradicted yourself to the audeance so that that they can judge fairly.

You say that Hitler was "despicable" (hey what do you know I spelled it right) but how does the word despicable hold any weight in society if there is no right or wrong. As you all of you know, if you read my previous argument, despicable is a synonym for the word evil and if your evil you are doing something wrong. I hope we all agree on that. So since Hitler was despicable (evil) as you said. How could you say that in a world that you believe in where there is no right or wrong? Thats right you cant say that without it ultimently being a CONTRADICTION!! That is one of the many ways you have contradicted your self. When actually there are so many other ways you have contradicted yourself because your whole debate is a contradiction do to the fact that you use right and wrong all the time like when you agree or disagree with politics. For example on your profile you say you want Obama for president, why what is WRONG with the presidential candidates on the republican side if you were really true to your word and in what you believed in then you would atleast be independent and even they have politocal morals so actually according to you, you would not even vote for anyone.

It was fun getting my point across to you and debating with you I enjoyed the conversation and your debates really opened me up to a better knowledge of what is going on in America so thank you Pricetag and God Bless
Debate Round No. 3
20 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by AntiPatriot 9 years ago
AntiPatriot
Well, yes. I do mean mostly Americans. But I am also referring to societies that are similar to America.

"Patriots debate reflect many theistic beliefs."
I suppose that is more correct than what I said. But also the way a lot of people in America, who aren't really religious at all, think.
Posted by attrition 9 years ago
attrition
AntiPatriot, when you say westerners..you must mean Americans. Because if you are European you a "westerner" too. I take exception to that clearly bigoted comment, especially seeing that Pricetag is from Atlanta, Georgia. Patriots debate reflect many theistic beliefs.
Posted by AntiPatriot 9 years ago
AntiPatriot
I think patriots16-0's comments only go to show the way that westerners think. The fact that he can't around that "there is no right and wrong" is based in an upbringing in a Western society. Even when Pricetag explicitly stated that what Hitler did was despicable and tyrannical, patriots16-0 somehow equated those adjectives with "OK". I think Pricetag wins hands down. Other than patriots16-0's tactics of defamtion and name-calling, Pricetag's arguments were most logical and well-founded.
Posted by solo 9 years ago
solo
Good job, Pricetag. I think you pulled it off.
Posted by Rob1Billion 9 years ago
Rob1Billion
patriots16-0: I think at this point, you should really start considering changing your name to "patriots0-16" because I don't think you are winning over many hearts and minds with your arguments...
Posted by Pricetag 9 years ago
Pricetag
Thank you ctlaster and I already did.
Posted by ctlaster 9 years ago
ctlaster
I seem to keep running into patriots across this site...

Patriots, I hate to keep seeing this happen, but regardless of your faith (and I applaud you for standing by it so strongly), you need to open your mind to the thoughts and ideas that are presented to you. you don't have to back down from your beliefs, but educate yourself in the thoughts and facts that others present you with. I promise you it will make your argument much stronger.

and for pricetag, congrats on an excellent debate. please feel free to vote in my debate!!
Posted by mindjob 9 years ago
mindjob
Patriots, how can you claim that someone else is the stupidest person you have ever come across when you've obviously failed every basic grammar and spelling class you've ever taken? It still boggles me how you keep saying that rape, murder and all sorts of evil things would happen if there were no right or wrong. Last time I checked, those things happen all the time, so I think that might prove pricetag's argument.
Posted by Pricetag 9 years ago
Pricetag
sethgecko13 I stand and I applaud. I tried to explain that, but no luck.
Posted by artC 9 years ago
artC
patriots, I believe pricetag is agnostc NOT atheist. Oh yeah and, you're a dummy.
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