The Instigator
I_am_Spartacus
Pro (for)
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0 Points
The Contender
TheCritic89
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

More than half of all rape accusations are likely false

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/8/2016 Category: People
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 726 times Debate No: 86241
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (19)
Votes (0)

 

I_am_Spartacus

Pro

Round 1. Acceptance
Round 2-4. Arguments and rebuttals.
Round 5. Closing argument with no rebuttals.

I believe that there is now mounting evidence which suggest that false reporting of rape is indeed very high. The lack of thorough studies and societal will to explore the real extent of false rape reports notwithstanding, there are already many in-depth studies by independent judges and prosecutors which conclusively show that reported rapes to the police are fraught with false claims, very much more so than reports of other crimes. There are many police testimonies from experts working with sex-crimes willing to vouch for the appalling number of such cases. The studies and compelling police testimonies I'll provide will count for the "empirical" arguments in this debate.

I will also go through some cultural, legal, sociological and demographic arguments. As a caveat, these arguments should not be viewed as hard proof evidence from which you can extrapolate any figure, which is more of what the empirical data is for. They do however provide an explanation - much of which are simply discounted by academia - that could help explain and put the empirical data in perspective. Thus, the empirical data will be used to prove the proposition while the non-empirical arguments are used to verify the validity of the empirical data. For example, if police records say women make false rape charges because of let's say attention, then the "non-empirical" will show that there are good evidence suggesting that there are behavioural tendencies displayed among certain segments of the female population of attention-seeking or borderline behaviour. There is no casual relationship between attention-seeking behaviour and "half of all allegations are false" and hence this is no supporting argument. Rather in this hypothetical example this piece of "evidence" is an attempt to prove that there is some truth to the documented records in this case. I just want to make that very clear so as to not cause any further misunderstandings over the course of this debate.

I expect my opponent not to use any shaming tactics or ad-hominem attacks in which case I will urge voters to take this into consideration when casting your vote. If this debate will end up offending your sensibilities and if you can't deal with it in a rational manner, then don't accept this debate.

I'm looking forward to a rational debate of this complex and controversial subject and I wish my opponent good luck.
TheCritic89

Con

To set the tone, I absolutely intend to simply debate this and nothing more. I have no personal stake in the outcome of this debate regardless of my opinion on it.

To start, I want to clarify my view on this debate. I intend to debate and counter "more than half of all rape accusations are likely false." I expect to be able to make an argument that it is not "likely" that more than half of all rape accusations are false. I expect that if I'm able to prove that it is not reasonable to say that it is "likely" that more than half are false, then the voters will vote to the Con side as if it is not likely that more than half are false, then the Pro side will not have succeeded in their argument.

I will use empirical data when appropriate, and I will counter anecdotal sources. I will question the credibility of sources I believe to be less than academic or reputable from an unbiased standpoint. I understand it will be difficult in such a hot topic to identify any source as totally unbiased. I will assume a source is credible unless I have good reason to believe otherwise.

I look forward to the debate.
Debate Round No. 1
I_am_Spartacus

Pro

Thanks for acceptance.

Now to start off with, rape is a crime that is very hard to prove in that you'll have to prove that consent was not given. Rape is obviously a very inflammatory subject that evokes feelings of deep sympathy with victims of real rape that is. However, the issue of false rape allegations certainly do not receive the same media attention nor the same disciplinary measures taken to quell this new "false rape culture", as it were.

From an institutional level and from academia there is a blatantly biased view towards the "protection" of women. We have seen time and again bogus statistics with patently flawed methodologies being used to arrive at figures swaying far from reality, such as the "1 in 5 women will be raped in college campuses", that have been thoroughly debunked again and again, nevertheless being used by the highest legislative branch of the government as a source of reference when making new legislation(1). It reeks of a problem that runs deep on an institutional level eloquently put by Pennsylvania State Law Professor Philip Jenkins who described the pervasive perception that women don't lie about rape among feminists and feminist "jurisprudence" as an "unchallengeable orthodoxy" (1993, p.19). Law Professor Susan Estric described efforts aimed at reforming rape laws as "an attack on the premise that women who bring complaints are suspect". In Canada, for instance, a man must demonstrate that willing consent was given, thus unless such a demonstration can be presented, a jury can secure a conviction on the bases of an accuser's testimony alone. The burden of proof is thus reversed hence upending centuries old anglosaxan law in order take an ideological stance and side with women (2).

Another clear-cut example of how institutions have overwhelmingly taken the side of women, much to the detriment of the rights of the accused, in campuses was the decision by the Education Department"s Office for Civil Rights (OCR) decision in 2011 to introduce title IX as legislation on campuses to regulate all acts of sexual violence which include sexual harassment, sexual battery, sexual assault and coercion. This piece of legislation has removed cross-examination by the accused and it orders the campuses to adjudicate these cases even if the accuser chooses not to have a medical exam or notify the police. If colleges do not comply they lose their federal funding and are referred to the U.S. Department of Justice for litigation(3).

The problem has even spread to the workplace where men have now started to assess and read the landscape in order to avoid being on the receiving end of a false indictment of sexual harassment which could leave them fired and have their careers in shambles. Men have decided to respond in kind by not befriending women, not helping women out - not even opening doors for women. Many go so far as to avoid being one-on-one with women in the same room or closing the office door, all in an attempt to cover themselves by having third-party witnesses "present". Ironically at the end of the day it ends up actually biting women in the rear end by not allowing them to advance in the workplace, getting the help they need, developing contacts, etc (4).

This bizarre outlining of today's America might seem to be taken from some outlandish 1984, dystopian type novel. It's real and happening because of the culturally pervasive notion that lies about these sexual matters are rare.

Yet what do institutions and feminist-oriented academia really care to know about false rape accusations? Why isn't there any research into the connection between rape and rape fantasies that over 90% of women have had and that even one-third to two-thirds indulge in occasionally (5)? It ultimately begs the question of whether women engineer or steer encounters in that direction so as to simulate raped or entice the feeling of being raped. In the current hook-up culture in which women are encouraged to explore their sexuality, guys can be led on to things that women give a black check to and later regret. In fact, there are evolutionary reasons as to why many women regret casual sexual encounters. (13)

Police not only identifies sexual regrets but mental illness and sociopathy as potential causes for women making false claims. 85% of people suffering from borderline personality disorder, BPD, are women and BPD affects 5.9 percent of the US adult population at some point in their life. Doing the math using official figures from 2014, that would mean that about 12.3 million of US women suffer from BPD: (7)(8). BPD is characterized by an inability to properly regulate mood, thoughts and self-image which can result in reckless and impulsive behaviours.

That's just only counting BPD. There are many more psychiatric disorders among women of which the connections to making false claims, either of harassment or forcible rape, has not even been attempted by feminist academia or by institutions to adequately investigate. Then what credence can we lend the institutions aimed at combating it happening to women when the occurrence of false rape are not seriously looked into? I say none. Coupled with rape fantasies, I call these "the factors unaccounted for".

When the US Air Force's Office of Special Investigations headed by Dr. Charles McDowell investigated rape cases of Airforce personnel on Air force bases throughout the world and found that 27% were false by admission from the accuser, usually after they were asked to take a polygraph test. Subsequently he developed a 35 criteria listing traits common among those had confessed to making up false claims, used to distinguish false accusations from genuine cases. Three independent judges later reviewed the remaining cases using the criterion. Only when they unanimously agreed did they determine a false claim. At the end of the day, the false rape allegation rate was 65%, 556 cases (2)

Another study looked at 109 cases of forcible rape that in one small Midwestern city of 70,000 denizens between 1978 and 1987. This particular city was selected because the police department wasn't overly burdened with police cases and thus had the means to effectively go thoroughly through these cases in-depth. They constructed a unique and objective protocol to review the cases brought forth. Among one of the procedural precautions was to not use police discretion to clear a complaint even in they were to conclude that the accusation was suspect or unfounded. Every accusation had to be studied in-depth and always included a lie detector test to the accuser as well as the accused. Cases were only declared false if and when the accuser spilled the beans and conceded that no rape had occurred. 41% of the accusers admitted to it being false. (9).

During a follow-up study a similar analysis was used to conduct investigations of all the cases of forcible rapes over a three-year period at two large Midwestern universities. Polygraph tests were not of the procedure, yet 50% of the complaints were found to be false. 53% of those cases were cited as the accuser needing an alibi(9).

According to a 1996 department of Justice report ""in about 25% of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI, the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing". The DNA exclusion rate remained constant over several years. Also, 20% were found to be questionable if DNA was added. National Institute of Justice's survey of private laboratories also demonstrated consistent with FBI numbers a DNA exclusion rate of 26%. (2)

I also argue that it appears to to have become more socially acceptable by women to make fails allegations of a sexual nature, rape included. (to the point where men have read this trend and responded accordingly). Here are thirteen random examples of varyingly different reasons of false rape claims (10). Three girls made a joint statement against a homeless man because they feared they would be punished for being late to school(11). 13(!) women made a joint rape accusation against a boy because they perceived him to be a "player"(12). Reading these cases shows how women go to extreme lengths to incriminate men, fabricate evidence, self-inflict wounds, etc. Despite years of imbuing the the seriousness of rape in the public consciousness, it does not seem to have gone through to these women.

In summary of this round, looking at the studies (more studies and police and prosecutor testimonies will be presented in next round), already present problem with "sexual harassment industry" due to cultural push to "believe women's stories", the unaccounted factors and it becoming more socially acceptable for women to file false claims, it already points to the likelihood of over half of all rape allegations being false. And yeah, there's more where that came from in the next round.

1.http://www.thedailybeast.com...
2. http://www.ipt-forensics.com...
3. https://www.whitehouse.gov...
4. http://www.telegraph.co.uk...
5. https://www.psychologytoday.com...
6.http://news.utexas.edu...
7.http://datacenter.kidscount.org...
8.http://www.medicalnewstoday.com...
9..http://sf-criminaldefense.com...
10.http://thoughtcatalog.com...
11.http://www.freerepublic.com...
12.https://www.youtube.com...
13. http://news.utexas.edu...
TheCritic89

Con

TheCritic89 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
I_am_Spartacus

Pro

I_am_Spartacus forfeited this round.
TheCritic89

Con

TheCritic89 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
I_am_Spartacus

Pro

I_am_Spartacus forfeited this round.
TheCritic89

Con

TheCritic89 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
I_am_Spartacus

Pro

I_am_Spartacus forfeited this round.
TheCritic89

Con

TheCritic89 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by crepuscularkid 1 year ago
crepuscularkid
I'm gay so "\_(|84;)_/"
Posted by I_am_Spartacus 1 year ago
I_am_Spartacus
Sounds all well and good then. Now we can bury the hatchet and get on with the debate without any hard feelings between us. If I may have said something in response to the cat guy or said anything, whether in fact true, that is misogynistic or could be construed as such, that has no relevance to the debate nor to the voting of said debate. The place where it goes down is in the debate section and not in here. So with that said I wish my opponent good luck.
Posted by TheCritic89 1 year ago
TheCritic89
Okay, look. I hope you get my point here. I actually came here to debate this, not for the purpose of white knighting your debate, but to simply have a deeper conversation that will hopefully broaden the perspective of people who read the debate. I didn't sign up to say you're a misogynist or anything like that. False accusations are a problem. Real accusations are a problem. I don't see debate as necessarily a win-at-All costs event. I'm not saying I agree or disagree on a personal level. I am saying that I felt capable of at least playing the con side. If you had taken the con side, I would have taken the pro. I think you thought I came here to say you hate women and that I think all men are bad. Trust me. I didn't. I came here to provide a valid, capable opponent for you to have an engaging debate.
Posted by I_am_Spartacus 1 year ago
I_am_Spartacus
Well you've got an interesting background, I'll give you that. I don't doubt your experience in dealing with such cases given how big of a problem false reporting is in the military. Personally I haven't had any dealings with the legal system or any false allegation myself so I certainly cannot speak from experience. Aside from one acquaintances who I believe have been badly and unjustly treated by the legal system in this regard, I have no personal anecdotes to share so that won't be my focus for this debate at all.

As for you being up in arms challenging my objectivity on the basis of something I've written on the comments section, mind you my comportment in debates is not that of my unformal persona on forums and comments section. You don't have to worry about it since I'm pretty "k" when it comes to debating.

If you want to have a peek at my last debate and gauge my use of "reason and logical discourse" then go ahead and have a look. I'll have some extra time on my hands to maybe rephrase and present some new arguments in this debate but there are some points that I'm going to reuse that you can read up on. http://www.debate.org...

As for the r/k theory, that we can discuss on another ocassion. The thing that fascinates me about it is the tremendous predictability and explanatory power it provides in explaining some interesting facets of our everyday life, much the same way as the Newton's three laws weren't fully understood because the cause of gravity wasn't fully understood. You needed Einstein's theory of relativity to account for the bent space time we call gravity. As it pertains to casuality, I'm not really concerned about it anymore given that the correlation is so strong. There are some very interesting dicussions of how it fits into genetic explanations, biocemistry and brain-structure explanations, but the mere fact that the theory works so well is reason enough give the theory it's fair
Posted by TheCritic89 1 year ago
TheCritic89
Additionally, your source from anonymous conservative only cites two other only mildly resembling sources to support its inaccurate viewpoint on the behavior of animals. It's pretty simple. Human personality and behavior is, at most, weakly manipulated by genetics. Further, there is much less evidence that natural selection plays a role, if any, in determining psychology based on availability of resources. So, on those grounds. I reject the use of anonymousconservative as a reliable source based on their demonstrated inability to put properly use scholarly sources.

Though, cats generally can't determine the difference between reliable primary sources and unreliable secondary sources, either. I support the point that you may have more in common with the house cat than you previously considered.
Posted by TheCritic89 1 year ago
TheCritic89
"I expect my opponent not to use any shaming tactics or ad-hominem attacks in which case I will urge voters to take this into consideration when casting your vote."

Enough said. Based on the tone you immediately took in the comments section compared with how you began this debate, I imagine you have significantly less experience with this topic than I do. I didn't come here to defend all women from the evil orator "I_am_Spartacus." I came here to engage in a debate.

So, spartacus, I didn't realize you weren't here to have an intellectual debate. The simple contradiction of your opening to your comment leads to a dissonance here in "reason and logical discourse." Through my time as an infantry officer in the United States Army (I suppose that's as young and uninspiring as it gets), I have had to support and defend a number of soldiers from unfounded sexual assault and sexual harassment claims. If you can claim to have been through much the same experience, then you would likely know the harm that comes from the extremist points of both sides of this debate. You're already on one of them.

Furthermore, your attempt to enlist help from the r/k selection theory from evolutionary biology does little to help your point. Though, I suppose if we were reaching, we could say that your numerous ad hominem attacks with little substance fall more inline with the r-selection in the evolution of this comment section. You have a high quantity of attacks at the ready; unfortunately, all of them failed. Maybe you should have attempted more attacks on my credibility of the k-variety.
Posted by I_am_Spartacus 1 year ago
I_am_Spartacus
Well there"s no point debating wiht a female sympathizer like yourself. I can present all kinds of data and facts that conflict with your preordained view of the world but that is ultimately pointless. It's obvious for any rational person that you did not come here to expand your mind or exchange rational points of view, rather you came here to spew your emotional bile on everyone who does not pass your feminist muster. The likes of people like you are at the end of the day not guided by reason and logical discourse but by whatever subconscious programming that is underneath that's ultimately the shaping block of your political views.

Maybe you are an unattractive and uninspiring young man (which I suspect uou are) and therefore CANNOT afford to disagree with women lest that would make you fall out of their good graces. Maybe bada*ses like myself and others who are free-minded and non-conformists who have the balls to defy conventions and being at odds with the rest of all soceity scare the sh*t out of your little ego because you are a meek little nice guy who conforms. Maybe you should read up on r/k selection theory and figure out whether you are a k or and r- type personality. Spoiler, r-type personality have pictures of cats as their profile pictures. http://www.anonymousconservative.com...
Posted by crepuscularkid 1 year ago
crepuscularkid
Honestly that was the greatest comment I've ever read jesus christ. I mean, rape allegations is a pretty common thing for the red-pill overdosing MRA to cover, but I've yet to see someone bash battered women.

I hope those divorce proceedings go well for you.
Posted by I_am_Spartacus 1 year ago
I_am_Spartacus
crepuscularkid, if you feel so equally passionate about standing up for women, then go and help out in any of your local battered women's shelters (in which 67% of the time women you'll help will actually have been the initiators of domestic abuse and will have committed severe violence towards their partner). You just don't have a clue man and you've bought into feminist lies spewed by these borderline/narcissistic feminist women (10% of American women have borderline disorder) who should be on their meds or in a straight jacket rather than filling your head with the wrong ideas. Maybe you'll stop believing women are the greatest angelic beings on the planet when you'll be in a family divorce court having to bend over and plead "yes, your honour" while you're getting but*-raped by the judge who hands down the verdict that says you have to give up the house, lose your kids and be forced to spend maybe 30-40% of your after tax income to your ex-wife, then maybe then you'll realise what the f*ck I'm talking about. Now your so oblivious that perhaps the only way for you to get your head straight is to experience it yourself.
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