The Instigator
Voice_O_Reason
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
TheOrator
Con (against)
Winning
46 Points

Mormonism is a joke

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 8 votes the winner is...
TheOrator
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/5/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,433 times Debate No: 24104
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (8)

 

Voice_O_Reason

Pro

First 2 rounds- 1=acceptance and 2=positions
TheOrator

Con

I'll be Con arguing on the position that Mormonism is not a joke. As definitions haven't been provided I'll go ahead and define Moron, just in case this becomes an issue later:
Mormon: 1. the doctrines and polity of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, founded in the U.S. in 1830 by Joseph Smith, especially its adoption of the Book of Mormon as an adjunct to the Bible.
2. adherence to these doctrines or membership in the Mormon Church
That definition brought to you by www.thefreedictionary.com

On to you for opening arguments, Pro, fire away. Also, in your opening statement, could you clarify wehter we're able to argue each other's positions round 2 or will that wait untill round 3?
Debate Round No. 1
Voice_O_Reason

Pro

Are you mormon? Because your spelling could use some work...
TheOrator

Con

Tactful, I see. No, I'm atheistic. Anywho, on to you, sir, and I hope that gets me the conduct point :)
Debate Round No. 2
Voice_O_Reason

Pro

Are the Father, Son and Holy Ghost One God or Many Gods?

BOOK OF MORMON = One God

PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH = Three Gods

"And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen." — 2 Nephi 31:21

"I will preach on the plurality of Gods… I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods." —Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370

Has God Always Existed, Unchangeable from all Eternity?

BOOK OF MORMON: YES
PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH: NO
"For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity."—Moroni 8:18

"...the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity..."—Mosiah 3:5

"We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea,...he was once a man like us..."—Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-346
Does God Dwell in the Heart of the Righteous?

BOOK OF MORMON: YES
DOCTRINE & COVENANTS: NO
"…because the Lord hath said he dwelleth not in unholy temples, but in the hearts of the righteous doth he dwell…."—Alma 34:36
"…the idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man's heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false." —Doctrine and Covenants 130:3
Is God the Father a Personage of "Spirit" or an Exalted "Man"?

LECTURES OF FAITH and BOOK OF MORMON = "SPIRIT"
DOCTRINE & COVENANTS and JOSEPH SMITH, JR. = "MAN"
"...The Father being a personage of spirit, glory and power: possessing all perfection and fulness…"— Doctrine and Covenants, 1935 edition, Lectures Fifth of Faith, Section V, p. 52-53 (Note: In 1921, The Lectures of Faith section was removed from Doctrine and Covenants)

"Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God...that thou art a spirit, and that thou wilt be a spirit forever."—Alma 31:15, Book of Mormon **

"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's...." —Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens... I say, if you were to see him to-day, you would see him like a man in form--like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man." —Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345

Are There Two or Three Personages Governing the Universe?

LECTURES OF FAITH = TWO
JOSEPH SMITH, JR = THREE
"We shall, in this lecture speak of the Godhead: we mean the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things….They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit... The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, is a personage of tabernacle…And he being the only begotten of the Father...received a fulness of the glory of the Father—possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit." —Doctrine and Covenants, 1935 edition, Lectures Fifth of Faith, Section V, p. 52-53 (Note: In 1921, This Lectures of Faith section was removed from Doctrine and Covenants)
"I will preach on the plurality of Gods...I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods." —Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370

Should We Pray to Jesus Christ?

BOOK OF MORMON: YES
LDS CHURCH: NO
"...Jesus came and stood in the midst...he spake unto the multitude, and commanded them that they should kneel down again upon the earth, and also that his disciples should kneel down upon the earth. And it came to pass that when they had all knelt down upon the earth, he commanded his disciples that they should pray. And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God."—3 Nephi 19:15-18

"Elder Bruce R. McConkie clearly explained what our relationship with each member of the Godhead should be, pointing out that some misguided members of the Church may ‘begin to pray directly to Christ because of some special friendship they feel has been developed' with him. This is wrong, said Elder McConkie. We should pray directly to the Father..."—The Ensign, June 1998, p. 59
Should We Worship Jesus Christ?

BOOK OF MORMON: YES
LDS CHURCH: NO
"And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ... wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out."—2 Nephi 25:29

"...I beheld the Son of God going forth among the children of men; and I saw many fall down at his feet and worship him."—1 Nephi 11:24

"Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him."—3 Nephi 11:17

"We Worship the Father... In an official interpretation of Moses 1:6, the First Presidency (Joseph F. Smith, Anthon H. Lund, And Charles W. Penrose) said: ‘But the sole object of worship, God the eternal Father, stands supreme and alone...' Who is the sole object of worship?... President George Q. Cannon taught: ‘...We know also that our Father in Heaven should be the object of our worship... He will not have any divided worship. We are commanded to worship Him, and Him only.' (Gospel Truth, 1:135)" —Come Unto Christ —Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1986, p. 46-47
TheOrator

Con

Ah, we finally have an argument, Well, let's get right to it.

My Arguments will be based around the following
1: The Burden of proof lies upon the Pro
The Pro is making a claim in this statement and trying to assert it is true. Because he is taking the affirmative in the round, the Burden of Proof in the round is upon him to prove Mormonism is a joke[2]. If my opponent cannot prove that Mormonism is a joke, or if I can prove that it is not a joke, then the Burden of Proof is not upheld and I win the case.

2: Mormonism is not a joke
Joke: Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line.[1]

2 A.) The book of Mormon is not funny
I will start by showing quotes from the Book of Mormon:

""For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost, as well in these times as in times of old as in times to come; wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round" - 1 Nephi 10:19" [3]

"And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.

And he shall go forth, suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind; and this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will take upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people.

And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.' -Alma the Younger (Alme 7:10-12)" [3]

"And the husbands and fathers of those women and children they have slain; and they feed the women upon the aflesh of their husbands, and the children upon the flesh of their fathers; and no water, save a little, do they give unto them.
10 And after they had done this thing, they did murder them in a most acruel manner, torturing their bodies even unto death; and after they have done this, they devour their flesh like unto wild beasts, because of the hardness of their hearts; and they do it for a token of bravery." [3]

As we can see, nothing in these quotes are humorous. It doesn't even have one inkling of humor anywhere in the texts. So, we can assume it isn't a joke, as it isn't made to make us laugh. However, according to the definition, we need to look to why it was made in order to see if it's a joke.
2 B.) Mormonism was not intended to be a joke.

"Joseph Smith wanted to know which church was the true church of Jesus Christ. There were several christian churches in the area where he lived....each contradicted the other in one way or another. Joseph ( a boy of 14 yrs) went into the woods to pray and asked the Lord which church he should join. In response God the Father and his son Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph and through Joseph Smith was the true church of Jesus Christ restored to the earth." [4]
Clearly, Joseph Smith created Mormonism because he believed nobody else was telling the true story of Jesus, and so he was inspired for religious reasons, not humorous reasons.

And so, because Mormonism has been proven not to be a joke, Mormonism fails. On to you, Pro

Works Cited:
1.) http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
2.) http://www.nizkor.org...
3.) http://www.goodreads.com...
4.) http://wiki.answers.com...
Debate Round No. 3
Voice_O_Reason

Pro

Obviously you don't have a very good sense of humor.
TheOrator

Con

Sense of humor? Sir, I'm offended! I'm trying to argue a genuine topic about a religious stance and you're accusing me of joking around? That's just rude. Since my opponent didn't negate anything, my arguments stand, and I'll move on to my opponent's arguments :)

MY OPPONENT'S CASE:
My opponent is trying to show contradictions in the Mormon faith between the text and the words of their prophet, it does not prove Mormonism to be a joke. Sure, irony is a funny circumstance, but it is often done unwillingly, and is just a consequence of an action rather than an actual joke. Because my opponent cannot prove Mormonism is a joke, vote Con!
Debate Round No. 4
TheOrator

Con

My opponent dropped all arguments made against him, and so not only has his entire case fallen, but it has been proven Mormonism is not a joke. Therefor, I win the arguments debate. Since I actually provided sources and he did not, I should also get the sources vote. Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Voice_O_Reason 5 years ago
Voice_O_Reason
LOL your right, that website is hilarious!
Posted by tyler90az 5 years ago
tyler90az
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true! If you question that, then read The Book of Mormon cover to cover and then pray about it.

Ezra Taft Beson had this to say, "How are we to use the book? We must first read it and gain a testimony for ourselves. Men may deceive each other, but God does not deceive men. Therefore, the Book of Mormon sets forth the best test for determining its truthfulness—namely, read it and then ask God if it is true."

No amount of anger or hate will stop this stone from rolling forward!

The Prophet Joseph Smith Jr. had this to say, "The Standard of Truth has been erected. No unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing. Persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame. But the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and dependent till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, until the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the Great Jehovah will say, ‘The work is done.'"
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by Ixaax 5 years ago
Ixaax
Voice_O_ReasonTheOratorTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Voice_O_Reason... anyone else see the irony here? Dropped all arguments because...
Vote Placed by Maikuru 5 years ago
Maikuru
Voice_O_ReasonTheOratorTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: With 4 forfeited rounds by Pro, a full ballot goes to Con.
Vote Placed by KADET_4N6 5 years ago
KADET_4N6
Voice_O_ReasonTheOratorTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: An explanation is not required, it was an extremely one-sided debate.
Vote Placed by waterskier 5 years ago
waterskier
Voice_O_ReasonTheOratorTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: That must suck doing a serious debate then the person you were debating against doesn't even take it seriously
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 5 years ago
RoyLatham
Voice_O_ReasonTheOratorTied
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Total points awarded:24 
Reasons for voting decision: A joke is "something not to be taken seriously." Pro should have set up the meaning of the resolution and stayed with it. Con wins because his arguments were unanswered. Pro loses conduct for early failure to debate the resolution.
Vote Placed by AlwaysMoreThanYou 5 years ago
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Voice_O_ReasonTheOratorTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Arguments to Con because he proved Mormonism is not a joke. Conduct to Con because Pro was rude. Sources to Con because his sources were better. S/G to Con because although they were pretty much tied, Pro was so rude I don't think the conduct point was enough of a penalty.
Vote Placed by socialpinko 5 years ago
socialpinko
Voice_O_ReasonTheOratorTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct for insults and general violation of proper debate etiquette. On arguments, all of Con's arguments revolved around contradictions within the Mormon faith. However, even if these were shown to be true, it would not uphold the resolution. The resolution is that Mormonism is a joke, not that it is false or contradictory. Therefore all of Pro's arguments are moot. Con's rebuttal argument that Mormonism isn't funny and that Smith likely didn't start it for comedic purposes went un-refuted.
Vote Placed by tyler90az 5 years ago
tyler90az
Voice_O_ReasonTheOratorTied
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Total points awarded:14 
Reasons for voting decision: Obvious is obvious!