The Instigator
ian.holsapple1
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
Juris_Naturalis
Con (against)
Winning
20 Points

Mormonism is not christian

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
Juris_Naturalis
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/24/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 718 times Debate No: 34138
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (4)
Votes (6)

 

ian.holsapple1

Pro

In this debate I will be arguing against The church of latter day saints claim to be a Christian church.
Juris_Naturalis

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
ian.holsapple1

Pro

I would like to thank my opponent. My hope is that by this debate we will learn from each other.
In the Mormon religion it is believed that god was once a man and was granted god hood by a different god and that god before and so on and so forth in an infinite succession of god hood. This is wrong. It is a sin to aspire to be like god. He is the all knowing, all powerful ONE god. Jesus is god and from his birth by the Virgin Mary has always been a god. But the beauty of god is that Jesus was also a human. Mormon believes that Jesus was a man who attained god hood. Jesus was actually always a god who took flesh and became man too. Also Mormonism believes that Jesus went to the new world ( the America's ) and preached to the native Americans and that they had horses and huge cities way advanced for the time. But horses weren't brought to the new world until the 1400's way after the religion of Mormonism states that they had them. Also there is no archeological evidence whatsoever of the supposed cities that the Mormons believe we're there. And the biggest problem with Jesus going to the new world is that in the bible he ascends into heaven until the second and final coming which didn't happen in the new world because that signifies the end but it never ended. Mormonism believes in an infinite amount of gods and places more importance on a heretical man (Joseph smith) than Jesus the savior of mankind. Solely on the fact that they believe in the infinite cycle of gods bestowing god hood onto mortals and so on shows that they are In Fact polytheistic while Christianity is SOLEY AND STRICTLY MONOTHEISTIC
Juris_Naturalis

Con

First off, I would like to say that this debate is whether or not mormons are christians, not doctrinal differences.One denomination of Christianity cannot set the standards for the rest to follow. Merriam-webster.com states that a christian is, 1:one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. So, if you ask any mormon if they believe in christ, they'll say yes, thereby fulfilling the defintion of christian. We don't believe in multiple gods. I would like to know where Pro pulled that from. We don't put any man in front of Christ as far as teaching goes. You could argue that Joseph Smith was a heretic, but then the same definition would apply to Paul, because you can't prove that Paul actually saw an angel except by what you have in the bible. I could go longer into doctrinal debate, but I don't have to. And since pro didn't cite any sources to back up his claims, they can't be proved to be true. I could write another page saying how wrong he is, but then it would just be my word versus his.
Debate Round No. 2
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by medv4380 3 years ago
medv4380
@Juris_Naturalis you really should read your your little Doctrine and Covenants book. People aren't pulling this information out of thin air. They're twisting it to their own view, but it's not invalid information. AnonyFeline is a conspiracy nut though. There isn't any "secret" stuff the melchizedek priests have that the average Mormon, or anyone outside the church, could get a hold of.

Heck non-mormons were allowed into the remodeled temple here locally up until it was re-sanctified. Some people here "Only Priests are allowed here" and they want to go all crazy with conspiracy quackery. Maybe in the old days of Smith that may have been obstinately, but in the modern world not really.

However, you're not as up to date on your own beliefs. I get the feeling that you'd be shocked the LDS Church banned blacks from the Priesthood up until the 70's (under IRS threat), and where involved in a fairly big massacre in the 1850's (Mountain Meadows). That stuffs all outlined in the church history books if you bother to read it. Though, with it's own twist to make them look as good as they can. Which is a disturbing, but interesting, hat trick.
Posted by Juris_Naturalis 3 years ago
Juris_Naturalis
Once again, I'd like to know where you pulled out this stuff about Kolob and Elohim
Posted by AnonyFeline 3 years ago
AnonyFeline
Everyone gets taught a partial truth (or a partial lie) before being illuminated to the entire truth. This occurs in science as well as religion. As an example, Newtonian (algebraic based) physics is initially taught in late secondary school and quite limited in scope and accuracy. After those concepts are acknowledged students move to Einstein Relativistic (calculus based) physics in late secondary and early college, and eventually to quantum physics and cosmology at the university level. Each level peels off the shroud that the previous level place in order to simplify the concepts and calculations of that level. So the deeper you delve into the field, the more questions arise that cannot be answered with the previous layer. Greater knowledge is required (in the form of math calculation and concepts) in order to answer previously unsolvable questions are then use achieve even greater knowledge.

The same is true for all of religion. When focusing on Mormonism/LDS, the initial priesthoods (Melchisedech and Aaronic) are taught a certain level of information about their religion, without being privy to the complete truth. In reality, the LDS Church is similar to a polytheistic religion than that of a monotheistic religion. If one were to thoroughly research it, one would find that Mormons believe that the first creation was a planet called Kolob and that humans on earth are the spirit children (descendants) of the Mormon god, Elohim, who came from Kolob. One would also discover that LDS followers believe that if they live a good life they will eventually become a god of their own planet and be a father to their own spirit children on this "other" planet, after earth. According to Christianity, there is only one God, Jesus is his body incarnate, and the messiah that saved the world from it's fall from grace due to original sin. Mormons do not teach the same thing and therefore are not Christian, despite their label as being "The Church of Jesus Christ".
Posted by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
This argument should have either started in the first round, or had at least three rounds.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by HeartOfGod 3 years ago
HeartOfGod
ian.holsapple1Juris_NaturalisTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: I agree 100% with philoshristos. Con had a good argument that Mormonism believes in the teaching of Jesus, but Jesus did teach monotheism. This would have been devastating to cons case, but pro did not take advantage. No sources were used so nobody gets the point there. Con had better grammar.
Vote Placed by philochristos 3 years ago
philochristos
ian.holsapple1Juris_NaturalisTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro could've won this debate if he had cited sources for what Mormons believe. Con said a Christian is "one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ," so all Pro had to do was show that Jesus taught monotheism, whereas the LDS Church teaches polytheism. Since the burden of proof was on Pro, and Pro didn't carry his burden of proof (due to lack of sources), Con wins.
Vote Placed by adontimasu 3 years ago
adontimasu
ian.holsapple1Juris_NaturalisTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: As Pro did not provide a definition for what a Christian is, it was Con's responsibility to provide one; since he did, his definition is the one that should be used, especially since no other round existed to contest it. Con fulfilled his BoP through this definition and Pro failed to fulfil his BoP due to lacking an adequate definition to prove his point, added on top of Con's refutations.
Vote Placed by medv4380 3 years ago
medv4380
ian.holsapple1Juris_NaturalisTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct and grammar goes to Con because of Pros abuse of caps. Sources goes to con because he cited Websters to establish the definition of Christian. Pro should have established a clear definition of Christian at the start if he wanted to prove his case clearly. Argument goes to Con as well since Pros argument reads as a distracted rant, and consisted of red herrings. To answer cons question about where Pro believes LDS are polytheist read D&C 76:58; 132:19-20. The claim is easily countered, but that's what he's referring to. Also, pro should have cited that in his argument if he wanted any points at all. This needed far more rounds, and better structure. And if anyone accuses me of "bias" I'm an Ex-Mormon so I hardly have any loyalty or love for ether argument.
Vote Placed by wiploc 3 years ago
wiploc
ian.holsapple1Juris_NaturalisTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Debate should have had more rounds. Con countered Pro's relevant arguments, and pointed out that the others were off topic. Con didn't have to, because Pro had the burden of proof, but Con introduced a dictionary definition to be more persuasive against the resolution than anything Pro said in favor.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
ian.holsapple1Juris_NaturalisTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Semantically con is right, however pro advanced the idea that mainstream Christianity believes in a different Jesus Christ than Mormons do; as one went to America (where there were horses and great cities...), and one stayed in the part of the world the entire bible is set in. For con to be right, would say that Muslims are also Christian, since they believe in a guy named Jesus Christ who slaughters Jews.