The Instigator
figoitalia
Pro (for)
Winning
31 Points
The Contender
ComradeJon1
Con (against)
Losing
24 Points

Mormonism sucks, and is stupid

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/11/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 10,509 times Debate No: 2547
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (30)
Votes (17)

 

figoitalia

Pro

This started because i have a good friend who is Mormon. I have known him for about five months, and during this time i always ask him questions about his religion. Yet everything he says is either a contradiction, doesn't make sense, is incredibly unbelievable, or just plan stupid. I have no problem with religion, or people having faith, but come on. Has anyone actually taken a moment to study this? So i invite anyone who thinks they can, especially if you are Mormon yourself, tell me why this branch of Christianity isn't stupid.

so go ahead this is a 5 round debate make the first move and i will tell you why your points don't make sense, or are just stupid

no offense
ComradeJon1

Con

Mormanism is no more ridiculous than any religion, particularly christianity. It bases itself on strange traditions, true, but so do all religions. Your Statement is extremely offensive and ridiculous.
Debate Round No. 1
figoitalia

Pro

Well thanks for your input ComradeJon, but i really wasn't referring to their traditions. My points were going to be more along the lines of how the religion affects the individuals. For example,

there is a general rule that about 10% of money earned goes to the church

family members who are not Mormon are unable to go to a Mormon family members wedding.

How the great majority raise their families and children in areas heavily populated by other Mormons. ex: Idaho and Utah

how children are taught to believe and follow all of the doctrines since birth, with out being given a choice

these children generally don't understand why they behave certain ways are do certain things. My friend for example is almost 16 and still doesn't know why he cant drink coffee, but can drink coke

So i really wasn't trying to bash there religion, just make it more interesting, and less formal. and i never said other religions don't believe strange things, but normally those things don't affect people and children the way Mormon beliefs do.
ComradeJon1

Con

Ok, i understand. I just hear of many people who claim "its a clut" or "its not christianity at all" (refering to the LDS). I was merely angry about that, but im equally interested in an informed debate.

To responde to all of your examples of how mormonism is bad, we must realize a simple fact: all religions follow this. Find me a religion that doenst heavily promote the teaching of itself to the offspring of faithful. Find me a religion that doesnt have a set of rules that outsiders would find "silly". Judaism says that prok is dirty, even though we know for a fact that it is no dirtier than beef or chicken. It also believe that it is a sin to eat meat with dairy products. The epispocal church chooses the eating and drinking of the body and blood of christ (represented by wine and crackers) as a part of their religious practices. Find me a religion (specific) that doesnt concentrate in certain areas.

Finally, your logic is flawed, to be a part of a religion it affects you (and usually your children). Moromons are just as tied to their faith as any other orthodox interp of any religion. I am not a mormon, nor do i find their beliefs spirtually enriching for myself. But if youre going to call the religion "stupid" as you did in your topic statement, you must see every religion as such as well
Debate Round No. 2
figoitalia

Pro

figoitalia forfeited this round.
ComradeJon1

Con

well enough. go ahead. this is just to get me to 100 characters blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Debate Round No. 3
figoitalia

Pro

Ok good, sorry about that, and the miss understanding. so to the debate.

You respond to all my arguments by saying all religions follow these, so let me go to show why this is not true.

10% of money goes to the church.
This is not true for all religions, let alone most of them. Yes in some religions, such as christianity, there is a collection, but it isn't mandatory. Sometimes people do not even go to church to worship. Hinduists, for example often worship at home with out giving ten percent of their earning to the church.

Non Mormons can not attend Mormon weddings.
This is not true for all religions. Christians can marry non Christians, Islamics can marry Jews or Christians, and hinduists can have interfaith marriages

Raising kids in secluded environments.
again this isnt true

teaching beliefs since birth.
yes others do this, i wasn't trying to say that

children generally don't understand why they behave certain ways are do certain things
in most religions, the reason why is taught as well at an early age. But when a teenager cannot answer why he doesn't drink coffee, then it get worrying.

your next point that all religions have "silly" aspects is completely true, i am simply stating that these these aspects are alot more extreme with Mormons, and impact then in a mmuch greater way.

so basically its not the fact that other religions have these aspects, but that Mormons are much more extreme, and influential on the people.
ComradeJon1

Con

10% of money goes to the church.
-the 10% tariff is an oold bibilical thing. it was done for many years in the christian religion. also, LDS is not a very much followed church (at least comparatively). They need money. And if you dont want to pay, there are independent churches.

Non Mormons can not attend Mormon weddings.
-not a fan of this rule. i have a number of mormon friends and i know i wont be able to attend. But so many religions have rules like this. its a strict religious kinda thing. In arab judaism, they establish communities of varying size and remain very secluded. look to the SY community in brooklyn, ny. its unfair to label mormonism as ridiculous under this circumstance when its such a universal occurence in orthodox religion.

Raising kids in secluded environments.
-many religions prefer to base themselves in secluded areas. there are plenty of mormons living abroad. its not the religion, but the social aspect (as seen in all religions) that keeps people secluded.

children generally don't understand why they behave certain ways are do certain things
in most religions, the reason why is taught as well at an early age. But when a teenager cannot answer why he doesn't drink coffee, then it get worrying.
-i can tell you why: mormons follow the strict code that any stimulant or supressent (unless under extreme circumstances) is abuse of the body god gave you. all caffine is prohbited. im suprised a life-long mormon doenst know that, but thats poor teaching, not the religion itself.

i must insist, imposing silly rituals is religion 101. not a fan of it, but its a fact of life. mormonism is only strict becase they are a people very well connected with their faith.
Debate Round No. 4
figoitalia

Pro

ok, so going over the points again

10% going to the church-you stated that it is a small church, therefore they need the money. Since when should you have to pay taxes to have faith? Mormons say their religion is about faith and believing, and doing the right thing, but why does it take 10% to get to the celestial plain? (the mormon heaven) is a person doesnt want to pay to the church, but still believes in the religion are they a worse person? no.

non mormons are not allowed to a mormon wedding- you stated that there are some other religions that do this, but just because other religions follow similar practices does not mean it makes sense. the point of this debate wasn't to show that mormons were different than other religions.

Raising kids in secluded environments- again you stated other religions do this. but it is undeniable that Mormons are notorious for this. My friend didn't even know there were other religions until he was eight years old. And even know he still believes some completely false ideas that he was taught in the church. such as masturbation will cause you to turn gay. and masturbation harms the body. and all gay people have aids. and looking at porn causes you to cheat on your wife or will turn you gay. its the seclusion and lack of other ideas that causes these ridiculous claims.

children generally don't understand why they behave certain ways are do certain things
in most religions, the reason why is taught as well at an early age. But when a teenager cannot answer why he doesn't drink coffee, then it get worrying- ok you gave me the reason, but by that reason wouldn't any form of drug such as vitamins, energy drinks, anything that we ingest other that food.

then you say silly rituals is religion 101, i never disputed this fact i simply stated that mormons have many stupid ones, that was the point of this debate. heres some more examples of the so called "education" they get, some of them are so ridiculous, that the are almost funny, until you realize they are serious

It is easy to find website after website that will tell you that masturbation is ok and that everyone does it. The truth is that not everyone does it (and most of the websites that tell you otherwise are trying to make money off ads related to sex). You see, there are some real dangers to participating in the act of masturbation. The mormon church teaches that masturbation, or other types of self-stimulation is wrong. Here's why: While masturbation can seem harmless, it elicits sexual feelings that are intended only for marriage. This habit-forming activity quickly leads to other activities such as viewing pornography and participating in homosexual activities.

to kiss in casual dating is asking for trouble. What do kisses mean when given out like pretzels and robbed of sacredness

"[When I was a boy, one of our brethren out in the ward] told us that we hadn't ought to be kissing girls until we were sure we were going to marry them. Then he used this little illustration. He said, "Which one of you boys would like to eat a sandwich where your boy friend had licked all the butter off?

hurch leaders teach that successful marriage is most likely to occur when the participants are "of the same racial background generally, and of somewhat the same economic and social and educational background."

When one considers marriage, it should be an unselfish thing, but there is not much selflessness when two people of different races plan marriage. They must be thinking selfishly of themselves. They certainly are not considering the problems that will beset each other and that will beset their children

its just these ridiculous beliefs they teach that makes this religion seem stupid, and completely unbelievable.
ComradeJon1

Con

Tariff

You dont pay 10% to be a mormon, you pay 10% to be a member of LDS. Every church in the US needs tariffs to exist. They just choose to pool the money so that churches world wide can exist. Its kind of like religious, unofficial government.

Weddings

I know thats not the purpose, im just saying that all religions follow thier own belief structure so its unfair to call them stupid because of it.

Seclusion:

your friends community did that to him, not his religion. moromon asks for a moral lifestyle, but morals are interpretable by community.

Misunderstanding of the religion:

Yes, all stimulants and barbituates are banned unless they cause you are in danger if you dont take them. I didnt say i agreed with it, just informing you so you can inform your friend.

Your examples:

Im not saying that these outdated ideas are sensable, only that they ar religion 101. In any form of christianity, somebody saying "masturbation is natural" is a sinner. And as far as the racism, same thing! If you want me to agree that Mormonism is stupid, i will only under the circumstance that you call all religion stupid. The reason is say so is because ridiculous backwards tihnking is religion 101 and is seen no more or less than in mormanism.
Debate Round No. 5
30 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by websterhamster 3 years ago
websterhamster
Saying that the majority of Mormons live in Utah or Idaho is incorrect. Most Mormons don't even live in the United States.
Posted by HellKat 9 years ago
HellKat
"the people are ignorant"

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Just kidding, but I don't think it's fair to say that.
Posted by jordyz 9 years ago
jordyz
I am mormon and ill clear some things up for you. One we cant drink coffee because it has 3 times as much caffeine as soda. Tithing is an option (10 percent of money)it does not have to be paid. We are not a cult. It is true that at a time we practiced having more than one wife, but it was outlawed in the 1890s and is now an excomunicable offense. There are not many differences between us and christians except for a few things. Like we believe that God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are three separate "people" or beings. Christians believe they are all one "person".
Posted by sully 9 years ago
sully
here is an example of why i never debate on this wesite, the people are ignorant. "mormonism sucks and is stupid"? grow up, what a weak point and weak argument. But of course he wins the debate, this is because there are a lot of close minded morons on this website, they dont care about the content, they just dont understand mormons and choose to vote for their fellow idiot. there was another argumentabout the mormons that was the same, someone trying to say it is a cult and he had terrible arguments but he won. You are all idiots!!!
Posted by jinzy 9 years ago
jinzy
I have several friends who are LDS. First many churches require or strongly encourage tithing. LDS are no different. Second, the restricted marriages are only those done in the temple and even if you are LDS doesn't mean you will get an invitation. You must have permission of your bishop to attend. Next, there are LDS everywhere. Heck there's a church around the corner from me. Most people are taught from the cradle a belief system. LDS are no different. I don't know about your friend but LDS do have restrictions on caffeine which includes Coke and chocolate. They view caffeine as a drug and therefore limit it's use since there isn't a medical reason to use it. Too bad the really interesting things about the LDS, you didn't even comment on.
Posted by mikelwallace 9 years ago
mikelwallace
As I read aceofelves comments, I can't help but see the problem with mainstream Christianity. Judgemental, closeminded, intolerant, bigots who pretend to "love" everyone as they boldly proclaim who is going to hell. This is the case with most born-agains I have met. They tend to turn people off toward Christianity and hurt the work of bringing people to the Savior. It is a shame. This individual is clearly uneducated on the subject. Im not going to call his Church a cult or state that he is going to hell like he did, Im not God, Im not the judge. He should really educate himself and not just follow the masses and accept what the "largest" protestant sects say as his eternal truth.

And to toria 2metal- same thing, please educate yourself before shooting off on this website. You will really save some faith if you could sound smarter. Mormons can not and do not have more than one wife. That was ignorant.
Posted by jhark 9 years ago
jhark
Yes, it's true.

The Bible teaches that when Adam and Eve were driven from the Garden of Eden, God provided them with clothing. These garments symbolized God's promise not to leave them and to ultimately redeem them. Mormons who have been to the temple wear clothing that represent the same thing.

Is it weird? Yeah, probably a little. But Mormons are certainly not the only religion that include clothing as a part of worship and when you understand the symbolism involved it doesn't seem so "out there." At least to me...
Posted by ComradeJon1 9 years ago
ComradeJon1
Is there any truth behind the "special underwear" thing and if so, why do you do it?
Posted by jhark 9 years ago
jhark
Hi, I've been in Mormons 23 years. I'm pretty much an expert by now so if you have questions I can answer.
Posted by dudclub 9 years ago
dudclub
Intolerance sucks, and is stupid.
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Vote Placed by apologia101 6 years ago
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