The Instigator
1Historygenius
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points
The Contender
1dustpelt
Con (against)
Losing
7 Points

Most Important Battles Challenge (1)

Do you like this debate?NoYes+7
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
1Historygenius
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/21/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,856 times Debate No: 24624
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (22)
Votes (4)

 

1Historygenius

Pro

Subject
In this debate, both debaters will present a battle each round. I challenge YOU to this debate!

Rules
There are no attacks or rebbutals, basically you just present battle, explain why you think it is most important, and then continue to the next round. Whoever has the most important battles will be decided by the voters.

No semantics.
1dustpelt

Con

I thank Pro for instigating this interesting challenge. I will assume that Round 1 is for acceptance.
Debate Round No. 1
1Historygenius

Pro

The Battle of Waterloo

This battle was one of the most important in world history. Napoleon Bonaparte retured to power causing the other European powers to declare war on him. Napoleon took a large force into Belgium where an Anglo-Dutch army and a Prussian army was about to meet. Napoleon did his best to divide the two allied armies and eventually moved to Waterloo to engage the entire Anglo-Dutch force. After several frontal attacks, Napoleon could not break the British and Dutch troops and the Prussians were arriving on the battlefield. The defeat of Napoleon at Waterloo changed Europe and the world forever, Napoleon had accomplished so much while he was in power. For more, watch these videos:

http://www.youtube.com...
http://www.youtube.com...
1dustpelt

Con

I thank my opponent for posting.

The Battle of Vienna

This Battle was also one of the most important in world history. The Ottoman Empire's goal was to expand Islam into Europe and claim all of Europe for Allah. 150,000 to 300,000 troops under Kara Mustafa Pasha fought a mixed force of some 80,000 troops under the Polish King John Sobrieski near Vienna one September in 1683 and lost. The battle marked the end of Islamic expansion into Europe and resulted in their commander, Mustafa Pasha, being executed by the Turks for his mishandling of the battles for Vienna. Had Pasha attacked when he first arrived at the city earlier that July, Vienna probably would have fallen. By waiting until September, however, he gave time for the Polish Army and their allies to arrive to break the siege.

What if The Ottoman Empire had won?

Europe probably would have become Islamic.
All of Europe would probably have been taken over by the Ottoman Empire.

For more information, visit
;
http://en.wikipedia.org...;
http://www.wien-vienna.com...



Debate Round No. 2
1Historygenius

Pro

Siege of Constantinople

By 717, the Arabian armies of the were on the march to Bizantine Empire's capital, Constantinople. The Arabian fleet blockaded Constantinople and an army was sent to siege the city. The Byzantines were protected by the massive Theodosian Walls surrounding the city. The Byzantine navy then arrived and conquered the Arabian fleet. The Arabian army was destroyed by famine and disease. By 718, more Arab fleets tried to attack, but were defeated by the Byzantines and another Arabian army was ambushed and defeated.

If the Arabs had Won?

Constantionpole was a cork that stopped the flow of Islam, had the city fallen, the Arab armies would have marched strongly through the Balkans and then into Italy. They would have been unstoppable and would have been able to take both Europe and Asia. For more watch these videos and links:

http://en.wikipedia.org...(717%E2%80%93718


1dustpelt

Con

The Battle of Poltava
The Battle of Poltava was the turning point in the Great Northern War which ended much of Swedish influence in Europe. Czar Peter’s victory in the Great Northern War would bring Russia closer to Europe not just geographically but culturally. It marked the irreversible rise of one state’s power and influence at the fall of another’s.


This PowerPoint accurately describes the events in the battle: http://www.theartofbattle.com...

If the Swedish had won?
From the end of the Great Northern War onwards, Sweden was regulated to a regional power, whereas previously it had been counted among the great powers of Europe. Russia would, as a result of the war, dominate the Baltic and Poland. If the Swedish had won however, Sweden would have continued to be one of the dominating powers of Europe, and several regions near present day Ukraine would be Swedish, and Russia would have little influence on European culture.


More Information
The Battle Expained: ;
Powerpoint: http://www.theartofbattle.com...;

The Battle of Poltava in New Russian Movie
I would highly recommend all readers to watch this, very worth watching.

Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 3:

Each part is only a few minutes long.



Debate Round No. 3
1Historygenius

Pro

Siege of Yorktown

This siege was the final decisive battle in the American Revolution. British general Charles Cornwallis and 9,000 British and Hessian troops were stationed at the port of Yorktown, Virginia awaiting supplies from Britain. However, a French fleet under Admiral De Grasse attacked the British fleet, forcing them to retreat and causing a blockade on Yorktown. American general George Washington arrived with 11,100 men to siege Yorktown. A french force of 8,800 troops arrived as well. From September 28 to October 19, 1781, Cornwallis tried to hold out, but eventually surrendered.

If the British broke the Siege?

The American Revolution would have had to continue and the possibility that the United States would be founded would still be unsure.

For more watch this documentary:



1dustpelt

Con

The Battle of Stalingrad

The Battle of Stalingrad is considered by many historians as the turning point of World War II. The Battle for Stalingrad was fought during the winter of 1942 to 1943. The German commander of the Sixth Army, General Paulus, advanced on the city of Stalingrad. The Battle turned into one of the most bloody in WWII.

Why is this Battle Important?
The failure of the German Army was a disaster. A complete army group was lost at Stalingrad and 91,000 Germans were taken prisoner. The Germans now do not have enough men to cope with the Russian advance. The Germans were forced to retreat on the Eastern Front from February 1943 on. In his fury, Hitler ordered a day’s national mourning in Germany, not for the men lost at the battle, but for the shame Paulus had brought on Germany.

If the Germans had won?
The Germans would have likely won the battles on the Eastern front, would have been more likely to win WWII, and the future of the world would be in question.

Sources
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...;
http://www.history.com...
Debate Round No. 4
1Historygenius

Pro

Battle of Salamis

September 480 BCE, the Greek City States battled against the Persian Empire in one of the most important sea battles in history. As the Persian navy moved up the Straits of Salamis, the Greek navy attacked. The Persians were stuck in cramped conditions between their ships and became disorganized leading to a decisive Greek victory.

Had the Perisans Won

Many historians agree that if the Persians won it would have hampered Ancient Greek development and thus Western Civilization.

Here are some links and videos:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

1dustpelt

Con

The Battle of Fort Duquesne

The Seven Years' War was a global military war between 1756 and 1763, involving most of the great powers of the time and affecting Europe, North America, Central America, the West African coast, India, and the Phillipines. This war helped Great Britain rise to power over France. One of the major turning points in the war in North America was the Battle of Fort Duquesne.

The Battle
This Battle is considered to be a French victory because of the French fending of the initial British attack. Although the French had fended off the initial British attack, they understood that their remaining force of 600 cound not fend off the main British force. The French then retreated. The British and Americans later rebuilt the Fort and called it Fort Pitt after the British Prime Minister William Pitt.

Why was Fort Duquesne so important?

Fort Duquesne was the major French fort and supply hold in North America. After the British had captured the Fort, the French had lost it's major supply provider and turned the tide of the war in favor of the British.

If Fort Duquesne was not captured?

The French would continue to have it as a stronghold and have won the war. If the French had won the war,

- The US would not exist because the French would have ruled North America.
- The French, not the British, would become the most powerful nation of the time.
- Instead of English, more nations would be speaking French.
http://en.wikipedia.org...;
http://en.wikipedia.org...;


Debate Round No. 5
22 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by imabench 4 years ago
imabench
http://www.debate.org...

I was his second pick :D
Posted by WMdebate 4 years ago
WMdebate
Cool debate! Stalingrad was definitely the most important on the list, to me at least. It would have led to Soviet collapse in the south and God knows what after that.
Posted by 1Historygenius 4 years ago
1Historygenius
1dustpelt wanted sieges, I used that against him.
Posted by Ron-Paul 4 years ago
Ron-Paul
My RFD:

Round 2: Waterloo was more important than Vienna for one reason; backup. At Waterloo, if Napoleon had defeated the English, there would have been no one to stop him. Vienna, on the other hand, was not as important because the Ottomans would still have to face the French, English, Dutch, Spanish, Portugese, and Italians. The Ottomans would be forced back.

Conclusion: Waterloo is more important than Vienna; pro takes a point.

Round 3: Poltava and Constantinople are on roughly the same level for one reason; consequences. If Constantinople had been captured by the Islamists, Europe would be Muslim. This would have drastic consequences on the history of the world of course. Poltava, if won by the Swedes, would have defeated the Russians, stopped their ascent, and potentially, would have prevented WWI and thus WWII, and the rise of the USSR. But, wouldn't Russia come back?

Conclusion: In the end, they are both roughly on same level of importance, so it is a tie. If I had to choose though, because of unaccounted Russia, pro wins here also.

Round 4: This is easy. Stalingrad is obviously more important. Why? Because Yorktown could have been taken later with more reinforcements; they weren't coming for the British anytime soon. Stalingrad would have collapsed the eastern front for the USSR, and WWIIs Allies success would certainly be in severe doubt, at best.

Conclusion: Stalingrad is more important than Yorktown; con takes his first point.

Round 5: This is also easy. Salamis is more important than Fort Duquesne because if the Persians had won Salamis, western civilization would be drastically different. Again, as with Yorktown, Duquesne could have been won at a different time.

Conclusion: Salamis is more important than Fort Duquesne; pro takes a point.

Final Tally: Pro: 2; Con: 1; Tie: 1, or Pro: 3; Con: 1.

Either way, pro wins.

Sources to con because he put forth more sources and a lot of effort.

This was a great debate!
Posted by 1Historygenius 4 years ago
1Historygenius
Didn't the Greeks lose that battle?
Posted by egglestn 4 years ago
egglestn
IMHO The most important battle was Culloden 1746, It marked the end of the Jacobites and as such the start of The UK's rise as a military power. It also led to the exodus of many Scots to the United States, and some 30 years later, they and their sons formed the basis of the Continental Army. If the Scots were not disenfranchised after Culloden, they would not have gone west, and that sense of grievance would not have festered and exploded. The number of Union Loyalists would probably have been higher and the American Revolution would have been put down and now be a footnote in history.
Posted by Achilles_13 4 years ago
Achilles_13
I would say the battle of Thermopylae (Hotgates) 480 BC, If the persian weren't stopped by the Greeks, we wouldn't have a western civilization.
Posted by 1Historygenius 4 years ago
1Historygenius
lol, I did not know that!
Posted by 1dustpelt 4 years ago
1dustpelt
The British got revenge on de Grasse in the Battle of the Saintes :)
Posted by 1Historygenius 4 years ago
1Historygenius
Its OK now, we are allowed to have sieges in this one.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Ron-Paul 4 years ago
Ron-Paul
1Historygenius1dustpeltTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:32 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments.
Vote Placed by ConservativePolitico 4 years ago
ConservativePolitico
1Historygenius1dustpeltTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: It was pretty even, however I felt that Poltava and Dunquesne were weak choices by Con that were overshadowed by Pro's heartier choices of battle such as Salamis and Waterloo. Edge to Pro.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 4 years ago
16kadams
1Historygenius1dustpeltTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: R2: Pro. R3: Con. R4: Con. Stalingrad was likely more important then Yorktown, as the French support would have still been able to win later as British support for the war was diminishing. In other words, we still would have won. R5: tied. On one hand, you risk the western world. On the other, you risk the US and all of Europe. Con wins. 3/4, pro 2/4 (tie made weird numbers)
Vote Placed by TUF 4 years ago
TUF
1Historygenius1dustpeltTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:32 
Reasons for voting decision: This is a really hard one to vote. 1Duspelt found some incredibly important battles, such as vienna and stalingrad. But I think the one that gives historygenius the vote is R4 siege of Yorktown, as it was the tide turner during the war. Also being an american myself, I can realte to the importance of this battle. Sources to Con for good effort!