The Instigator
Chob
Pro (for)
Winning
31 Points
The Contender
das_kapitel
Con (against)
Losing
12 Points

Most homophobes are gay themselves.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/28/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 5,933 times Debate No: 1112
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (15)

 

Chob

Pro

In a study conducted by Professor Adams of the University of Georgia, it has been concluded that a majority of "homophobes" have secret homosexual feelings themselves. Therefore, these homosexual homophobes feel as if they have to act more macho (with the use of anti-gay attitudes) in order to put up a disguise of their own homosexuality.

To be specific, the study found that approximately four out of every five men who described themselves as being "homophobic" were aroused by watching homo-erotic videos, as they were wearing a "penile circumference measuring device" (also known as a plethysmograph).

Adams's research was published in the U.S. Journal of Abnormal Psychology in 1996, and is backed by the APA (American Psychological Association).

Personally, I find this whole situation to be quite a pity. It is a shame that people are forced to repress their natural feelings, all in the name of some book like the Bible, or in the name of "family values." When, in fact, more families have been destroyed in the name of "family values" than anything homosexuals could possibly do. We can even see this ultra-macho attitude in our military with "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" still in place. It is a shame what lies people get away with in order to justify their bigotry.
das_kapitel

Con

Hello chob, I first want to say,(not that I am in any position to make any judgements or criticisms on the tpic) that your topic of debate was very well chosen, it's very origional and it's not just he same old topics.

Well now to get to the subject at hand.

So what I am getting from your arguement is that, most people who are homophobes are secreatly gay themselves and feel the need to hide it with a macho-man act.

"...these homosexual homophobes feel as if they have to act more macho (with the use of anti-gay attitudes) in order to put up a disguise of their own homosexuality."

I am on the tennis team at my school, and as we all know, tennis has a reputation (stereotypical usually) of being a "gayish" sport because of the uniform that was worn, and the attitude of the sport and some of the players. I can tell you that there are people on tennis teams that are gay, and I am sure that tennis has a higher gay percentage than most other sports because of the sport's reputation.

However, according to you arguemet here, the tennis team should have an extremely low percentage because it is not considered a very strenuous or let's say "manly" sport. If people who are afriad of revealing their homosexuality were to try to put on a "manly" facade, they would be more likely to join a football or basketball team rather that tennis.

Except this doesn't happen because, football and basketball have a higher tendency to have a very low gay percentage.

The situation is the opposite of what you stated.

The reality is this:

Although some homophobic people may in fact be homosexual themselves, most of them are not.

Also chob, can you tell me what kind of person you would call a homophobe.
The very-most basic definition of a homophobe would be someone that is afraid of homosexuals and aviods them at all cost.

I know that I am not homosexual, I am against gay marriage, and I really do not think that homosexuality as a whole is morally right, but I also know that I am not a hompphobe because I spend the end of every day with my friends (some of who are gay) at the tennis courts, and I am completely comfortable around them. I'm not saying that they are bad people of course, I just believe differently than they do, they're still my friends.

(I don't base these beliefs on "family values" because I think that it has been used as a cop-out lately for "I don't know why I believe this way" I base it on the words of my Lord Jesus Christ, and I stand firm on His word).

I believe this way because God says that this is the way that it should be in the Bible, and I believe that 1,000%.
Debate Round No. 1
Chob

Pro

When you expressed that your tennis team has a higher gay percentage than the football or baseball team because it is "girlier," you said that what I said is reverse. On the contrary, those who are open about their natural feelings are more likely to express themselves, sometimes be it through different "un-manly" (I do not think one thing is any less manly than another, personally) things, since they have much less fear of being seen as being homosexual.

This is actually exactly what my opening argument backs. Just because there is a baseball team, this does not mean that there are no gay players. There are just no open players. The estimated percent of the population that is homosexual is about 10%. To say that there are no gay players on the baseball team is simply uninformed. However, this is not the case for everyone, but most people on such a team very often feel as if they have to meet some "manly" standard, which leads to a lot of rampant homophobia and therefore some denying of their natural feelings.

My definition of a homophobe is broader, to include those against equal gay rights, since there is still a lot of social imperialism involved. You have to believe that you are "better" than gays in order to say that you are against them getting married, which I really cannot see how it is of any concern to you. You say you are not of "family values," however, you say you follow Christ's model, (he didn't actually ever say anything about homosexuality, just his arrogant followers), which is really what "values" people say that they base their judgments off of.
das_kapitel

Con

Well, Christ never directly said anything about rape or domestic violence, so does that mean that these things are acceptable?

'[a] 7 'So a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife,[b] 8 and the two will become one body.'[c] So there are not two, but one. 9 God has joined the two together, so no one should separate them."

-Mark 10:6-9

Jesus did say this though. He said "a man will leave his parents and join his wife... God has joined them together, so no one should seperate them."

Also, where do you suppose that His followers learned that homosexuality is wrong?

Even if Jesus did not directly state that homosexuality is wrong, it does say it throughout the Bible and since the Bible is the word of God, then God has said that homosexuality is wrong.

"You have to believe that you are "better" than gays in order to say that you are against them getting married"

This is not true. If a thief steals something, and I think that stealing is wrong, doesn't mean that I think that I am better than that thief. It only means that I do not agree with what they do.

The arguement is that homophobes are secreatly homosexual themselves.

I do not believe that it is right for gays to marry, so does that mean that I am homosexual? Well, i'm not so whats wrong with your theory? If you are correct, then why am I not gay? Does your theory apply to me, if so then why have I managed to escape homosexuality?
Debate Round No. 2
Chob

Pro

I do not quite see how quoting the Bible helps your argument. I am perfectly aware of what the Bible says. This does make it the entire truth, set in stone. My argument was also that most homophobes are gay themselves, which does not include everyone, so you are one exception. Unless of course you happen to be closeted, therefore you would deny it. I'm not calling you gay, I'm pointing out that you cannot really use yourself as an example when you perhaps are the example that I am trying to prove, if that makes sense to you.

"If a thief steals something, and I think that stealing is wrong, doesn't mean that I think that I am better than that thief. It only means that I do not agree with what they do."

I found it to be rather ignoble of you to acquit the issues of homosexuality to stealing. Homosexuals do not harm anyone, such as a thief does. The point of my argument that you used the above quote to rebuttal to is entirely true. White people had to believe that they were better than black people ("Christian" groups such as the KKK claimed that black people were immoral and undeveloped as a people, which is a very similar argument that the Christians of today use against gays and lesbians).

Being black is not behavior, homosexuality is behavior, I know. Homosexuality is feared and scorned by close to half of the American population. Obviously, half of the population is not homosexual. However, because boys are taught to be "manly men" from a young age, they recoil and act viciously, quite frequently, out of fear for what they realize themselves to be. They display a great amount of hatred towards those who are open about their own homosexuality, as an attempt to "prove" their own masculinity. I feel very sorry for those who feel hatred for being who they are, but even more sorrow for the people who so openly, so readily hate in order to deny themselves who they are, just because it was written in some many thousands of years old book.
das_kapitel

Con

das_kapitel forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ericjpomeroy 8 years ago
ericjpomeroy
This debate is stupid. How can you prove what people are thinking? Maybe they just don't like gays. Maybe they don't like people who bang sheep also, is that cause they secretly want to bang sheep?
Posted by ctlaster 8 years ago
ctlaster
it seems like the instigator has won this argument.
Posted by ctlaster 8 years ago
ctlaster
I completely agree with this argument. people use hatred and promote it all across this country. I, being a homosexual, feel the hatred on a daily basis. We are put out to be underdeveloped people and we do not deserve rights given to heterosexual couples.
Posted by Wierdkp326 8 years ago
Wierdkp326
My point was not that I didn't agree, It was that the argument was inconsistent. Don't be confused by that difference. It's not that the points wouldn't have been good for OTHER arguments, some were not relevant to THIS one.
Posted by mindjob 8 years ago
mindjob
Homophobes like Ted Haggard and Larry Craig are only the most recent examples of people who devote their lives to bashing gays, while secretly harboring gay tendencies themselves. The main idea behind making such a generalization is that the drive necessary to become one of these people is usually developed from their own self-hatred for being what they so despise. And actually, chobs made some really good points. Just because you didn't agree with them doesn't mean they didn't put up a good argument.
Posted by Wierdkp326 8 years ago
Wierdkp326
Chobs argument kind of intermixed several unrelated points to end with the conclusion that most homophobes are gay themselves. It wasn't consistent, and the rounds did not stay on topic with the beginning argument.
Posted by Nikki57 8 years ago
Nikki57
if they are homophobes how do you figure their gay?
Posted by mindjob 8 years ago
mindjob
Das kapital, you missed the entire point of the debate in your last round. The point is that the majority of homophobes are gay themselves. You are obviously not homophobic, even though you are mostly against gay rights. You saying that you would have to be gay if chob is right has nothing to do with the point of the debate.

But homosexuality is as much nature as it is behavior, just as heterosexuality. Homosexuality is as much who you fall in love with as it is who you have sex with. Who you fall in love with is nothing you can control, just like you can't control if you're born black or white.

In the entire bible, old and new testament, homosexuality is only mentioned about 30 times, yet conservatives make such a huge deal out of it. However, poverty and all its evils is mentioned around 3000 times in the bible, so I would love to know why evangelicals and other right-wingers think Jesus cared more about homosexuality than poverty. They obviously think this since denying gay rights is much more of a past-time to them then helping to solve poverty, and since their economic policies do more to create poverty then diminish it.
Posted by Sludge 8 years ago
Sludge
Hah. I'd love to see how this turns out.
Posted by Chob 8 years ago
Chob
Yes. I believe I am. And if you're going to insult me, try spelling whatever you are trying to say right.
15 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by U.n 9 months ago
U.n
Chobdas_kapitelTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture.
Vote Placed by brittwaller 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by das_kapitel 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Nikki57 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Corryngf 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Wierdkp326 8 years ago
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