The Instigator
imabench
Pro (for)
Tied
6 Points
The Contender
Mestari
Con (against)
Tied
6 Points

Most important FAKE Battles in history!

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Post Voting Period
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after 4 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/20/2012 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,764 times Debate No: 25201
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (31)
Votes (4)

 

imabench

Pro

You read the title correctly people, this debate will be arguing about the most important FAKE battles in history.

You see, in normal "Most important battles in history" debates, any idiot can google "most important battles in history", pick one, and then post that as their turn, Thats exactly what I did recently against Historygenius and I still got my a** kicked. But I got stuck in an elevator with wet paint for four hours and the fumes I inhaled helped me realize something. The first was that Justin Bieber could never be a dad because he isnt a dude, the second thing is that it takes a true idiot to go through all of Hollywood history and find the most legendary FAKE battles in history.

Heres how it works
1) 4 rounds
2) The fake battles you post must be taken from a Hollywood movie
3) You must show footage of the battle from the movie
4) The Movie battle cant be based off of any real or possibly real event in real life (So you cant pick the movie Troy)
5) YOU HAVE ONLY 24 HOURS TO POST (College starts for me on Wednesday which means Ill have to make this debate a quickie)
6) First round is acceptance only

GO :D
Mestari

Con

I feel rather confident in my knowledge of the legenday fake battles of history. Imabench stands no chance whatsoever in this debate. After all, what would he know, he's a bench. Benches don't do battle. Plus, my name is champion in some foreign language that I have forgotten. Do you know who are champions? That's right, people who do BATTLE. The only people who care about benches anyway are benchwarmers. I would say good luck but even that wouldn't be enough for Imabench. ^_^
Debate Round No. 1
imabench

Pro

Movie: Lord of the Rings, the Return of the King
Opposing sides: Orcs (Sauron) vs Humanity + other non violent beings (Gandolf)
Year: Middle Earth

The Battle:

It was the largest battle in the history of Middle Earth, with Sauron laying siege to the city of Minas Tirith with an army numbering in millions. Sauron wished to wipe out the last great stronghold of Humanity which would have led to an era of Orc rule with humanity and other mythical beings fell into extinction. The Battle was important in what was at stake but mostly remembered for the sheer size of the army that laid siege to the city. The Orcs sucessfully started laying waste to the city and would have succeeded but at the last minute reinforcements of the undead army from Rohirrim army dismantled the mighty Orc armies and saved the city, in the process freeing themselves from the curse that made them undead.

Had the Orcs won?

Had Sauron's army succeeded, the city would have fallen, humanity would havent lived on, and orcs would have ruled over the planet with Sauron as their God. Also worth mentioning is that had the Orcs won, Froto and his band of hobbits wouldnt have made it to the Volcano to destroy the ring, and that weird Gollum dude wouldnt have died in lava (which is the whole reason I went to see that movie)

Mestari

Con

Battle: The Battle for Western Osgiliath
Movie: Lord of the Rings, The Return of the King
Involved Parties: The Men of Gondor led by Faramir and a legion from Mordor lead by the Gothmog and supported by the Witch-King of Angmar and his subservient Ringwraiths.
Date: March 12, Third Age 3019




The Prelude

The twin fortresses of Osgiliath (East and West) were the most significant choke-point in all of Middle-earth. For evidence, I offer a map of Middle-earth. http://www.debate.org.... Tolkienites would immediately be able to indicate why this is true, but for those who are less familiar with the geographical structure of Middle-earth I took the pleasure of editing the map to clearly show its strategic significance. http://www.debate.org.... The key to the map is as follows: the blue line is the Anduin River, also known as the Great River. This separated the Western lands from the East. There were only 4 locations in which an army could pass without boats. Those locations are the three circled in white (North to South: Old Ford, Cair Andros, Pelargir) and the one circled in yellow (Osgiliath). It is important to note that aside from Old Ford, every passing was blocked by a fortress of Gondor. Old Ford was inaccessible by the forces of Mordor because it was deep within Mirkwood, home of King Thranduil's Silvan Elves. Circled in black are the only 5 vital locations in Sauron's control (North to South: Dol Guldur, Isengard, Morannon - The Black Gate, Minas Morgul - Fortress of the Ringwraiths, and Umbar). Umbar itself wasn't necessarily a stronghold but rather a haven for the Corsairs that were capable of raiding Gondor by sea. As you may have noticed, only Isengard and Umbar are in position to attack the Western Armies without crossing the Anduin River. However, prior to the Battle of Osgiliath the Ents of Fangorn destroyed Isengard and during the days surrounding Osgiliath, Aragorn and his Dunedain Rangers - with the aid of the Oathbreakers - destroyed Umbar. This left three fortresses in control of Mordor itself: Dol Guldur, Morannon, and Minas Morgul. Dol Guldur however was unable to serve its purpose as a forward base because during the Battle of Pelennor Fields (the proper name for the Siege of Minas Tirith), King Thranduil and Galadriel were laying Siege to the mighty fortress. This leaves two strategic locations for Mordor, Morannon and Minas Morgul. Note that these fortresses serve as the entrances to Mordor itself. Clearly enough, there were three locations that Mordor could choose to cross the Anduin River - Cair Andros to the North or Morannon was a heavily guarded city that had not had its defences ravished by centuries of wars. In order to arrive there they would have to pass through Ithilien where Faramir and his rangers were located slaughtering orcs as they went on their way to Minas Morgul to join the main army, Pelargir to the South which was not only a lengthy distance away effectively giving Gondor time to react to any assaults, but was also guarded by the Knights of Dol Almroth, the most feared heavy calvary in all of Gondor, or finally through Osgiliath, right out the gates of Minas Morgul.

Quite evidently Osgiliath was the most strategic location for Sauron to assault, as such he laid siege for several centuries during the Third Age. Boromir, a captain of Gondor, successfully defended Western and Eastern Osgiliath for much of the Third Age until being called away by Denethor the Steward of Gondor to attend Elrond's Council on the One Ring. In fact, Sauron first assaulted Osgiliath in Third Age 2475, over 540 years prior to the final battle of Osgiliath. Note that Third Age 2475 marked the end of the peace in Middle-earth and the first sighting of uruk-hai. In Boromir's final defense of Eastern Osgiliath Sauron led a full-scale assault and claimed Eastern Osgiliath as his own (June 20, T.A. 3018). This marked the official start of the War of the Ring as the first appearance of the Ringwraiths. In order to prevent Sauron from marching into Gondor, Boromir ordered the bridges connecting Eastern and Western Osgiliath to be destroyed - and with it Sauron's only viable passage into Gondor.

The Battle

The final battle of Osgiliath occurred March 12, T.A. 3019. Denethor ordered Faramir to reinforce the city rather than raid Ithilien due to the strategic significance of the Causeway Forts (Osgiliath was the name of the city itself and the forts were the defenses on either side of the bridges). Much to Faramir's dismay, the Orc General Gothmog had spent months preparing rafts and boats for his armies to cross the river with. The Men of the West were outnumbered 15,000 orcs to 1,500 men but still held their own. They had killed a third of the Orcs when the Ringwraiths arrived on their winged felbeasts, striking fear into the hearts of the Gondorian soldiers. With their arrival the tides of battle had turned and Western Osgiliath was promptly overrun. Faramir and the final few soldiers retreated to Minas Tirith. During the battle, however, Faramir was significantly wounded and therefore unable to serve as a captain of Gondor for the remainder of the war.

The Significance

With the fall of Osgiliath Sauron was able to reconstruct the bridges of old and lead his main army across the Anduin River. Remember that Isengard had fallen and Dol Guldur was being besieged, eliminating other land-based options. Umbar was also in the process of being destroyed preventing Southern Gondor from being raided by Sea. Now, one may ask why Mordor couldn't simply construct more boats and cross elsewhere. The answer is simple, Oliphaunts (Mumakil) could not be transported via boat due to their weight, and neither could trolls due to their aggressive nature. They would kill anything else on-board. Therefore a land-route was of utmost significance and the reconstructed bridges were the most vital location in the war for both Gondor and Mordor. With this victory Sauron was finally able to assault Gondor, as he had been trying to do for over 500 years. Before Imabench pulls any "Well, Minas Tirith was a huge battle broski" crap, note that for FIVE HUNDRED YEARS Sauron was unable to put up a significant presence in the war our large-scale assault due to not having access of a crossing of the Anduin River. No matter how you look at it, no crossing = no war. The Battle of Pelennor Fields would have NEVER HAPPENED had Mordor not won. One could also argue that the Battle of Pelennor Fields was vital to a Gondorian victory in the War due to the massive amounts of soldiers killed from Mordor. WRONG.

1) The army present at Pelennor Fields was only a minute fraction of Sauron's army. A much larger amount of soldiers was stationed to intercept Rohan but failed, and many more were in Minas Morgul waiting to move out. Sure, the Witch King of Angmar and Gothmog died in this battle, but so did Theoden, and Denethor killed himself, so the loss in Generals was equivalent - especially when considering that Eowyn and Faramir were injured to an extent that they could not rejoin the war. So as we can see, Sauron had more men that would have appeared at Morannon had Frodo not destroyed the ring first.

2) Had Gondor won Mordor would have had to of:
A) Try again and lose more orcs
or
B) Assault Cair Andros or Pelagrir full-scale and lose due to the superior defenses present in those cities compared to Minas Tirith. Yes, they were more properly defended. Little was it known that both fortresses sent their soldiers to defend Minas Tirith before the battle ended. The reason Minas Tirith was so poorly defended was because it relied on. . . wait for it. . . control of OSGILIATH for protection.

As you can see, the Battle of Osgiliath was the most important battle of not only the Third Age, but perhaps of all history in Middle-earth.
Debate Round No. 2
imabench

Pro

Movie: Avatar
Opposing sides: Humans (Colonel Miles Quaritch) vs the Navi (Jake Sully)
Year: 2154

The Battle:

Humankind and the native Navi of the planet Pandora have been unable to reconcile their differences and thus an all out battle has been declared following the destruction of the Navi home tree by the humans. To ensure victory the humans have launched an all out military and ground assault to destroy the tree of souls, the heart of all advanced life on Pandora. Jake and the Navi organize a massive aerial defense of the tree of souls while other tribes make up ground forces to halt the advance of the humans, and then the battle begins. The aerial war does not go as well as Jake hopes and the war on the ground is going much worse, and after a while it becomes apparent that jake and the Navi may lose the battle. Suddenly though the tree of souls coordinates nature itself to attack the humans in the air and on the ground, decimating their forces, including the huge airship carrying the bomb meant to destroy the tree of souls. The battle ends as a victory for the Navi, with the military being so weakened that the Navi carry out an organized forced removal of humans from their planet.

Had the humans won?

Had the humans succeeded in destroying the tree of souls, the entire Navi would have been killed due to the loss of the tree of soul's vital importance to the well being of the Navi. Several other species would have also instantly faced extinction, and humanity would be unopposed to recklessly mine Pandora for unobtanium with complete disregard to the environment, similar to how Earth was depleted of its resources.

Mestari

Con

Battle: The Battle over Yavin 4
Movie: Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope
Involved Parties: The Rebels vs the Empire
Date: A long time ago
Location: A galaxy far, far away


https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...

The Prelude

The Empire had a massive weapon called the Death Star. The Death Star fires lazor beams at planets. Planets go boom. Also, but this part isn't so important, the Empire was going to blow up Yavin 4 because they discovered that there was a rebel secret base there - but I'm pretty sure that had nothing to do with the battle happening. People just wanted to go pew pew.

The Battle

Rebel fighters manning X-Wings and Y-Wings engaged the TIE fighter's in Darth Vader's squadron while trying to destroy the Death Star. Lots of pew pew happened and rebels dropped like flies. Luke Skywalker, being the boss that he is, managed to get up close to the Death Star without dying to all of the pew pew lazors flying around and blew it up. He then got out alive, even though Darth Vader was trying to kill him. It is important to note that Vader could have killed Luke but R2D2 took the pew pew himself.

The Signifiance


There was a lot of pew pew. That makes the battle important by default. Along with that the planet wasn't blown up and the Rebels had their first significant victory over the Empire. This took a bit of swagger out of the Empire's step and gave the Rebels the time they needed to regroup and make a come back. Also, had the Rebel's lost then Luke would have probably of died and therefore there would be nobody capable of stopping the Empire, meaning free clone trooper suits for everyone!
Debate Round No. 3
imabench

Pro

Movie: Transformers 3, Dark side of the Moon
Opposing sides: Autobots (Optimus Prime) vs Deceptacons (Megatron)
Year: Technically the movie came out in 2011

The Battle:

Autobots and Deceptacons duke it out one last time, this time for control over the human race itself. The Deceptacons are transporting Cybertron itself into Earths orbit to then use humanity as slave labor to rebuild their army and planet, and all that stands between the Deceptacons and their goal are the Autobots and a task force of specially trained humans who have worked with the Autobots on past missions. The battle goes down in Chicago and results in Megatron going rouge and fighting Sentinel Prime long enough for Optimus Prime to intervene and kill them both, losing an arm in the process. Several other transformers are killed in the battle including Laserbeak, Soundwave, Barricade, Starscream, and Shockwave, while Cybertron itself is torn apart because of the failure of the beacon midway through the teleportation. This makes Earth the new home planet for all the Autobots and now the world knows of their existence.

Had the Deceptacons won?

Had the Deceptacons succeeded in transporting Cybertron to Earth and defeating the Autobots, all of humanity would be reduced to slave labor for the Deceptacons to rebuild their home planet Cybertron and to rebuild their army. On top of that, Optimus Prime and all other Autobots would be killed, basic human rights would be suspended, and nobody would be able to fight them.


Mestari

Con

Battle: The Battle Where the Black Man Dies
Movie: X-Men First Class
Involved Parties: The White Antagonist and the ONLY male Black Dude
Time: I didn't watch the movie, but probably towards the beginning like where every other black man dies

https://www.youtube.com...

The Prelude

A bunch of white people and a black dude were showing off their powers. All of the white people had bad-@ss powers, the black dude was able to become a fish. Real BA mo-fucka ya'll. Then the white antagonist talks about an oncoming war where the mutants will either be ENSLAVED or will rise against humanity. Obviously the enslaved part was a reference to the black dude.

The Battle

The white antagonists puts a fireball in the black dude's mouth and the black dude dies. That's it. That's the whole thing. The black dude doesn't even put up a fight. He just dies. Nothing else. The end. The brotha died.

The Significance

We're talking about the most important movie battles here, so what is more important than building a much more utopian mindset in society itself? The significance of this battle goes beyond the limitations of the movie. X-Men First class has helped cement a racist mindset in Hollywood. I mean, think about it. The black dude's name was Darwin. This is an obvious reference to Charles Darwin and the theory of natural selection. The white antagonist (who is designed to be a boss) even said "adapt to this" when killing Darwin, again referencing that theory. This goes to show that the movie makers see the black dude as unfit to live. Racist hollywood, stop reinforcing the idea that the black dude must die first. http://tvtropes.org... I mean, come on, it's a movie trope for crying out loud.

A vote for me is a vote against racism. Stop the black dude from dying first. Do the right thing DDO!
Debate Round No. 4
31 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ishallannoyyo 4 years ago
ishallannoyyo
The black dude jokes, LOL.
Posted by imabench 4 years ago
imabench
why what?
Posted by wrichcirw 4 years ago
wrichcirw
Dear God why...WHY?!?!?!?
Posted by Yep 4 years ago
Yep
I am an idiot, I apologize to both debaters >.< My round 1 scheme was just a hallucination of my crazy imagination, Sorry to both debaters. Technically it was 2-2 >.<
Posted by Mestari 4 years ago
Mestari
Oh, I didn't realize there was so little time remaining. In that case, thank you.
Posted by imabench 4 years ago
imabench
Mestari, its 1AM on the east coast and 6 hours left in the debate, hes not going to log back on in time to explain his reasoning, so we might as well undo the damage....
Posted by Mestari 4 years ago
Mestari
Ima, asking for a tie isn't necessary, although it is a generous gesture. You also disagreed with a vote in my favor, so it's no biggie. I'm just asking him about his logic.
Posted by Mestari 4 years ago
Mestari
@Yep*
Posted by Mestari 4 years ago
Mestari
There was no round one so by your count the final score is 2:2.
Posted by imabench 4 years ago
imabench
I would but Ive seen his other votes and trust me, this is as "detailed" as hes gonna get
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 4 years ago
16kadams
imabenchMestariTied
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Total points awarded:02 
Reasons for voting decision: Ima asked for a tie because he thinks Yeps vote is questionable
Vote Placed by Yep 4 years ago
Yep
imabenchMestariTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Round 1 Imabench, Round 2, Imabench, Round 3 Imabench, Round 4, Mestari. Sorry Mestari, Imabench's battles have won you over, (Although round 4 inmy opinion counts as 2 points) So the final score in my book- 3:2 Great battle guys!
Vote Placed by RyuuKyuzo 4 years ago
RyuuKyuzo
imabenchMestariTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: This was close, but i don't think the x-men battle was quite to the scale of the other battles listed here.
Vote Placed by ScottyDouglas 4 years ago
ScottyDouglas
imabenchMestariTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: I wont give some long speech. Con had better battles overall, round 2 Pro did. The real reasoning is Con discribed his in alot more detail. Also there was instances Pro had poor grammer.