The Instigator
IsMyNameReallyImportant
Pro (for)
Tied
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The Contender
joeheartone
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Movie Debate

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/23/2015 Category: Movies
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 664 times Debate No: 76878
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

IsMyNameReallyImportant

Pro

The way it works is we both pick a movie in the first round, and over the course of the debate we argue why our movie is better than the opponent's.

-Debate structure must go like this:

ROUND 1: Acceptance/Name of your movie
ROUND 2: First Arguments/First Rebuttals
ROUND 3: Second Arguments/Second Rebuttals
ROUND 4: Third Rebuttals/Concluding Arguments

The movie i choose is: Fight Club
joeheartone

Con

Raiders of the Lost Ark
Debate Round No. 1
IsMyNameReallyImportant

Pro

I have to admit that this is going to be a hard debate to win but i am going to try.
Both of the movies are really good but i still think that Fight Club is a better one and in this debate i am going to try to show that to you.
When you go to watch Fight Club you should not expect anything out of it cause you are going to get pretty much everything out of it. If you are expecting a comedy movie, you are going to get it. If you are expecting an action movie, you are going to get it. If you are expecting a drama movie, you are going to get it. If you are expecting a movie that has characters you can relate to, you are going to get it. The list can go on and on but to keep it short i am just going to say that this movie is a little bit of pretty much everything and that is exactly what i like about this movie because it shows a realistic picture of life.
Life is not always sad and it is not always happy and that is exactly what this movie shows you. I think that this movie shows what life most of the time really is and it does it perfectly. This movie has one of the most relatable characters in movie history, i am talking about the narrator a.k.a the main character. His character perfectly shows what most of the normal lives are. He has a job that he hates, he doesn't like his life and he wants to change but doesn't know how and he has very little personality because he is like most of the other people but that is why he is so relatable, because most of the people are not special and do not have perfect lives and this movie shows that perfectly.
When the narrator meets Tyler Durden for the first time you already know that Tyler is a cool guy that is going to be the best character in this movie.Tyler is a cool character from the beginning of the movie and as the movie progresses Tyler becomes even cooler. Tyler is in the movie totally opposite of the narrator and because of that the narrator starts liking Tyler and that is what we also do and that shows how we are really similar to the narrator. We maybe don't have the exact life as the narrator but we are similar to him and that is why i think that the narrator is not only one of the most relatable characters but one of the best characters in movie history. There is one more important character and her name is Marla Singer. She is similar to Tyler and the narrator at the same time. She lives her life the same way as Tyler lives his, both of them don't care about it but she is also like the narrator because she is still a normal person, not as normal as the narrator but she is still pretty normal compared to Tyler. She is a really important character and Helena Bonham Carter was great in that role.
From this we saw that Fight Club has some of the best characters in movie history but we all know that characters are not the only important thing in movies so now i am going to talk about cinematography. I think that this movie was shoot
beautifully. If you watched the movie you should know that yourself. Here are some of the scenes i am talking about:
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
Those are 3 of many beautifully shoot scenes.
Than we have the script.
The script is one of the best if not the best i saw. This movie has so many memorable lines that its hard to count them all.
Here are some for example:
1. The things you own end up owning you.

2. Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy sh*t we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

3. It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.

4. You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your f**king khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.

5. You met me at a very strange time in my life.

Those are only 5 of them but if you watch the movie you will find many more great lines.
Now i am going to talk about the acting in this movie.
The acting in this movie is perfect. The character in a movie can't be likable if the actor doesn't make the character likable.
If you watch the movie you can clearly see how awesome the acting is in this movie. Brad Pitt even allowed Edward Norton to punch him and Brad Pitt also Edward Norton and Brad Pitt learned how to make soap.
The last thing i am going to talk about in this round is the music in the movie.
The music in this movie fits perfectly with the scenes in this movie. There isn't much more to talk about except that you can either like the music in the movie or you can dislike it but the music still fits perfectly with the scenes in the movie.

In this round i tried to show you why i think that Fight Club is the best movie ever and i hope you agree.
I tried to show that Fight Club is the best movie ever because if you agree with that statement you agree that Fight Club is a better movie than Raiders of the Lost Ark.
In the next round i am going to focus more on Raiders of the Lost Ark because i didn't focus on it at all this round because i wanted to show you how good Fight Club is without comparing it to any other movie.
joeheartone

Con

Fight Club has its warrants, but Raider of the Lost Ark is in a class of its own. I will show that through the rounds of this debate. For this round, I will make it simple. Raiders was ahead of its time and set the precedence for all action movies that followed. Raiders showed the viewer a continuous, never letting up level of excitement that kept the viewer on the edge of their seat through its entirety. Through later rounds I will make it ever so clear why Raiders surpasses Fight Club. For now, let me share some box office info:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com...

http://www.boxofficemojo.com...

They say numbers speak volumes.... $175,191,923 more in gross box office sales on $45 million less in budget.

Raiders of the Lost Ark was a model for all action movies to follow and will forever reign as a classic.
Debate Round No. 2
IsMyNameReallyImportant

Pro

In this round i am going to compare Fight Club with Raiders of the Lost Ark but first i am going to talk about the arguments that my opponent (a.k.a the other debater) said.
My opponent said this " They say numbers speak volumes.... $175,191,923 more in gross box office sales on $45 million less in budget. "
I myself personally do not agree with this and i think nobody should because it is not always true. Yes i admit that it can sometimes be true but most of the time it is not. If we look in politics we can see that there were some politicians that were really good in there jobs and that tried to make this world better but the truth is that most of them are really bad in there jobs and do not try hard enough to make this world better, so by that logic Bush would be an awesome president because most of the people voted for him on 2000 and 2004 election but as it turns out he is actually one of the worst presidents.
This argument that i just used shows that numbers speak volumes is not a good argument to use. We can also look in today's popular music and most of as can see that popular music is not as nearly as good as popular music was good before. Also if we look at the trend that was started in 2013 and got attention in 2014 and that is the ALS ice bucket challenge. Most of the people were dumping water over their heads and not even donating so by the logic numbers speak volumes it would mean that it is better to dump cold water on your head than giving money to charity and we all know or at least i hope we know that giving money to charity is better than dumping cold water on your head.
So to get to the point i am only going to say that the numbers speak volumes is a not a good argument and i just showed you why and i hope you agree with me.
Now i am going to compare Fight Club to Raiders of the Lost Ark and show you why i think that Fight Club is better.
1. Characters
Fight Club in my opinion has much better characters. In Raiders of the Lost Ark Indiana Jones is the main character and in Fight Club the main character is the narrator. I have to admit that Indian Jones is much cooler the the narrator but the narrator is not a character that is supposed to be cool, he is a character that is supposed to realistic and relatable while Indiana Jones is a character that does not need to be relatable he is made to be cool. I think that the narrator is a much better character because we can see ourselves in him while we can't relate with Indiana Jones because we already know that he is going to be a hero and we know that he is going to be cool while we can see much more emotion in the narrator because he has much more emotions like anger, happiness, fear, love etc. while in Indiana Jones we can still see some of those emotions but we do not feel them the same because Indiana Jones is unrealistic and for that reason we cannot feel relatable with him and for that reason we cannot feel the emotions that he is having the same way we feel emotions of the narrator. Narrator is also much better and more relatable because he is not always a perfect good guy. The narrator hates his job, hates his boss and hates his life which we cannot see in Indiana Jones. Indiana Jones loves what he does and wants to do it but that is not very realistic because in today's society not many people are happy with their jobs and with their lives and that is why the narrator is a much better character than Indian Jones. The narrator is as i said not a perfect good guy and that is because he is not always good. As i said he hates himself, hates his job, and hates his boss and for that reason he is automatically not perfect but also he is not always good like in the scene where he beats angel face psychotically while angel face did nothing wrong to him.
Here is the link to the scene that i am talking about https://www.youtube.com... this is not the original scene from Fight Club because that song was not in the movie but it is the best video i could find so i apologize.
So as we saw the narrator is not always a perfect person and that is much more realistic because we are also not always perfect while Indiana Jones is also not always perfect the narrator is still much more realistic and that is why i think that the narrator is one of the best if not the best character in movies and in my opinion the narrator is a much better character than Indiana Jones.
In Fight Club we have Tyler Durden as the cool character so that is why i am going to compare him to Indiana Jones because they are both similar. I compared the narrator and Indiana Jones because they are the main characters but i am now going to compare Tyler Durden to Indiana Jones because they are really similar to each other. Tyler and Indiana Jones have a lot of similarities. Both of them are extremely cool, both of them have good looks and both of them live their life the way they want to but i still think that Tyler Durden is a better character because he is way more realistic than Indiana Jones. Tyler is way more realistic because unlike Indiana Jones he lives realistically. Indiana Jones has an awesome life and an awesome job that he likes while Tyler has an extremely bad life but he still makes the most of his life and that is what makes Tyler so cool. Tyler lives his life the way he wants to live it and does not care about what other people think about his lifestyle because he lives a happy life and that is what is important about him while Indiana Jones already has an awesome life and an awesome job so it it is much easier for him to make the most of his life and that is why Tyler is a much more realistic character because most of the people in real world do not get the opportunity to be like Indiana Jones but everybody can be like Tyler because Tyler is just a guy that does not care about his life and likes to live his life that way and everybody can do that. I hope i showed you that Tyler Durden is a better character than Indiana Jones.
Now i am going to talk about girl characters. In Fight Club we have Marla Singer and in Raiders of the Lost Ark we have Marion Ravenwood. I personally think that Marla is a better character and i am going to show you why. It is because she is way funnier and way more realistic. Marla is way more realistic because she lives a life that everybody can have. Marla is like Tyler but a little bit more realistic because she is a little bit more normal. While Tyler dose not show any signs of fear and does not show any signs of caring about his life, Marla does show that. For example when she near the end of the movie is weirded out by the narrator and his behavior she is not only weirded out she is also a little bit scared and also mad at the narrator while Tyler does not show any of the emotions that i just said. I still think that Tyler is a better character but Marla is a more realistic one. Marion from Raiders of the Lost Ark is not as realistic as Marla because of her life. She is like Indiana Jones, she lives a life of adventure and we all know that a life of adventure is not really realistic in the today's society. Not only is Marla a more realistic character, she is also a funnier one. I can still remember the line from Fight Club that Marla said after having sex with with Tyler: 'I haven't been f*cked like that since grade school'.
That is for me one of the funniest lines i have ever heard from a movie. I hope that you agree with me that Fight Club has better characters. Now i am going to talk about cinematography.
2. Cinematography
I already showed you in the round 2 that Fight Club has beautiful scenes like:
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
but in the Raiders of the Lost Ark scenes are not as nowhere as beautiful as in Fight Club.
3. The Script
In round 2 of my debate i showed you some of the memorable quotes from Fight Club but in Raiders of the Lost Ark i rarely see any memorable quotes. The only quote i remember from Raiders of the Lost Ark is ' Why Did It Have to Be Snakes? '
I think that the script for Fight Club is way more better than the script for Raiders of the Lost Ark.
4.Acting
In both movies Acting is great but with no doubt Fight Club has better acting. If you read what i wrote in round 2 for the acting in Fight Club you know that Fight Club has way better acting than Raiders of the Lost Ark and if you did not read what i wrote in the round 2 than go and read it because you will see there that Fight Club has better acting.
5.Music
Music in both movies is extremely good and you can not decide what movie has better music because it comes down to personal opinion. I personally think that Fight Club has better music.
I hope you agree with me in this debate and i am now going to end my round.
joeheartone

Con

My opponent wants to make illegitimate my statistics that support my argument that the movie "Raiders of the Lost Ark" is a better movie than "Fight Club. " And I will agree that there are certainly examples that reasonably reject the notion that numbers never lie. But, his examples are awkward and non-proving while mine are solid and factually proving. First, I looked at "budget" or cost of movie and then I looked at "gross box office sales." If my opponent wishes to compare the President George W. Bush then you can't just look at votes gained. You have to look at the whole picture and though he gained the majority of votes, his failure came with the duration and conclusion of his eight years in office with two wars, housing market crash, bank and corporation bailouts, and the great recession... and if you did a balance sheet on this... the number would be a grossly and incredibly negative number which would indeed match his label as a terrible president. Now, Bush had one sequel... Raiders had three and maybe a forth to come! You don't keep making sequels if the movie is not successful. Now, another comparison came from my opponent which tried to discount success in numbers with the ALS ice bucket challenges. My opponent must not be doing his homework because here are the facts as disclosed by ALS.org:
"... the ALS Association announced that donations related to the ALS Ice Bucket Challenge " the social media-powered video challenge, where participants pour a bucket of ice water on their heads and dare others to donate " have topped $100 million in the past month. That"s a 3,500% increase from the $2.8 million that the ALS Association raised during the same time period last year. More than three million people have donated, the association says."-- Information from the ALS site.

3,500 % INCREASE!! The ice bucket challenge was a huge success and raised awareness and donations!

My opponent exhaust great effort in his case describing his arguments in characters, cinematography, script, acting and music. At great length, he gives you reasons and examples and most of it opinionated and some of it substantiated. I will not proceed with a surplus of words in this round. My next round, I will unleash the arsanal of "Raiders of the Lost Ark" arguments and address these points. For now I wish to keep things in perspective.

First, "Raiders" and "Fight Club" are totally different type of movies and one must keep that in mind in this debate. "Fight Club" is more neo-noir and "Raiders" is action adventure based on the serials of the 30's and 40's. Both movies are different from this respect.

Second, "Raiders" and "Fight Club" were first screened in different decades. "Raiders" was premiered in 1981 and "Fight Club" in 1999. Cinematography and technical capabilities and advances are quite different between the two films based on the later being from a more modern time and age in film.

Third, the characters are developed and scripted according to the movie genre and what the movie is about. "Raiders" is an action adventure and almost a comic book point of view so the characters reflect this in their characterization and script. "Fight Club" being neo-noir moves to accomplish something different and the script, cinematography, characterization, etc. reflect this. It's hard to compare one to the other if you only look at the perspective of one as the grading system.

"Raiders of the Lost Ark" grabs you by the seat and never lets you go. The action is exciting, the script and dialogue are fun and engaging, the storyline takes you on a great adventure, and by it's conclusion you are left in awe (especially the first time you watch it... I remember that moment well.) For 1981, it was ahead of its time. In 2015, it is a iconic classic of all time.

Here is a clip or two for some highlights of this fun, action packed adventure:

https://youtu.be...

https://youtu.be...

https://youtu.be...

In the next round, I will make more detailed points in listed areas of characters, script, etc. to fully make valid my claim that "Raiders of the Lost Ark" is and will always be a better movie than "Fight Club."
Debate Round No. 3
IsMyNameReallyImportant

Pro

My opponent said that there are certainly examples that reasonably reject the notion that numbers never lie which means that my argument from round 3 in which i said that it is not always true that numbers speak volumes is correct.
My opponent said that my examples are awkward and non-proving and i do not agree with him. I said that by the argument that numbers speak volumes it would mean that George Bush was an awesome president because he got most of the votes on elections of 2000 and 2004 which is neither an awkward or a non-proving example. The other example that i said is that by the argument that numbers speak volumes it would mean that it is better to pour cold water on your head than to donate to charity because more people poured water on their head than donated. I agree that the ALS Association earned a lot of money but i know that there was more people that did the challenge and did not donate then the people who did the challenge and donated. Later my opponent said that my arguments in which i was talking why Fight Club is better than Raiders of the Lost Ark are only opinion based. In my arguments i said why i think that Fight Club is better then Raiders and i explained it on a very good way. I do think that some of my arguments are opinion based but after all this hole debate is opinion based because some people can like one movie more than the other and in this debate we try to show why are opinion is better than the opponents opinion. Now i am going to give one last argument and end my round.
Raiders are rated 8.6 on IMDB while Fight Club is rated 8.9 which shows that people like Fight Club more than they like Raiders.
http://www.imdb.com...
http://www.imdb.com...
joeheartone

Con

For this final round and conclusion of this debate I would like to start with a quote from the movie "Raiders of the Lost Ark."

Marion: You"re not the man I knew ten years ago.
Indiana: It"s not the years, honey, it"s the mileage.

And it's the mileage of "Raiders" that helps it stand alone as a successful, classic, movie of all ages. Just like Indy, the movie has aged well and continues to be revered and watched over and over again.

Let's look at who our select movies appeal to. "Fight Club" may have good characterization, and a deep plotted script but its violent and provocative nature narrows it's audience. While "Raiders" includes romance and fighting in its script, it is tamer and more favorable to a larger more diverse audience. This is why "Fight Club" will never surpass "Raiders" in total popularity, appreciation, and noteworthiness. Simply put, more people have enjoyed "Raiders of the Lost Ark." And yes, there are cases where numbers aren't exactly truthful. But, there are cases where they simply support claims of fame. The numbers are solid and true when it comes to "Raiders." By the way, those that dumped ice buckets on their heads and didn't donate, still offered their free services of advertising this cause. The viral effect was the true point of that event. So if a few didn't donate money, they donated their actions that helped to popularize an important cause.

"Fight Club" would do much better pitting against another flick of its nature. It certainly is a film of its time... but not of all time. For that, there are movies at a different level, enduring, timeless and fully engaging and that elite level, that elite class belongs to movies such as "Raiders of the Lost Ark."

Now some quick notes:

Characterization: Indiana Jones is truly a memorable, adventurous and fun character with his coolness, cleverness, and sometimes slightly weaknesses (snakes). Marion is that very beautiful but tough skinned woman with lots of grit. Together their dialogues are fun and entertaining and keep us bonded to their adventures.

Script: Starting with the opening scenes to each scene after, we are fluidly moved from action to action and kept spell bound.

Cinematography: For it's time, the cinematography was ahead of its time, well planned and well orchestrated. Consider the fight with the German Mechanic and the airplane scene.

Music Score: The soundtracks for "Raiders" is composed and conducted by John Williams, one of the best soundtrack composers of all time. The lyrical lines of the melodies are fantastic and memorable and put you in the right mood for the scene playing.

Now, my argument that "Raiders of the Lost Ark" is a better movie than "Fight Club" is solid and sensible. "Raiders of the Lost Ark" not only beats "Fight Club" but it stands tall as one of the funnest, most entertaining movie of all time.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
...because these two movies are TIED in their match-ups: http://www.flickchart.com...
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
lol Fight Club vs Raiders...this is gonna be VERY tough battle; if both debaters are good.
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