The Instigator
Pro (for)
2 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
7 Points

Movies are better than books

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/19/2012 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 29,198 times Debate No: 21247
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)




The first round of this debate will be for the presentation of our cases. Rounds two, three, and four will be for rebuttals. The fifth round will be why you are winning. All types of arguments are fine.
I believe that movies are better than books. The first reason I believe this is so is because movies are more visually appealing. Many people do not like books because there are too many words. More people would go to see a movie instead of reading the book. Also, some books are just harder to read for younger audiences, but if they see the movie they may be able to understand it better. An example of this is Harry Potter. The Harry Potter books are very long and sometimes hard to understand; the movies, on the other hand, are much easier to understand and a lot of fun to watch.
Movies are also more appealing for the ears. There is a lot of music and speaking in a movie. Many people enjoy the sounds of another person's voice.
Movies also create more job opportunities. There are many different aspects with creating a movie. There is a producer, a writer, a director, actors, makeup artists, etc. At this point in time, the world needs jobs. With more jobs, the world's economy becomes better. With books, there are only a small amount of jobs per book.
Also in movies, there are a lot of special effects. Special effects can help the mind see something better than they imagined in the first place. For example, there could be a car crash in a book, and you could just see one car crashing into another one, but, in a movie you could see one car crash into another and blow up. This just looks and sounds more exciting. Special effects help the imagination grow.
Going to the movies creates many social opportunities. People go on dates and friends have a lot of fun at the movies. Also you can watch movies at home and talk to your friends all you want about the movie, during said movie. Going to the movies gives people something to do while hanging out. In most cases it can spark a great conversation about the movie, which can lead to many other great conversations. When reading a book, many people can't talk to others because they will become distracted. There is not much of a social opportunity while reading a book.
Also, in many cases it costs a lot less to go to the movies or rent or buy a movie than it does to buy a book. A book can cost up to 640 dollars. Movie tickets can cost up to 20 dollars. Also today, since technology is becoming such a huge deal, people can watch movies online for about 8 dollars a month.
This is why I believe that movies are much better than movies. I wish you luck, and I hope you enjoy the debate.


Books are better than movie for countless reason.
Here are a few of my main points to start of with.

More detail in books:

My first argument on why books are better is that books have a lot more explanation on the story. When you get background information on the characters and understand why they act the way they do it helps you understand them. While reading you also know what the characters are thinking and how they are mentally dealing with the obstacles they are faced within the story. Getting more background information can help you understand the story better and make more sense of it. Whereas in a movie it's limited to a short time period where a lot of important information can't be elaborated on or gets left out altogether. By the end of the movie you have more questions than answers.

Making movies based off books can be a bad choice for filmmakers:

When a movie is based off of a book the movie can upset a lot of people because the movies always have to leave something's out. When people are big fans of a certain book and that book get picked up for a movie deal that can make certain people unhappy. The problem with reading the book before you watch the movie adaption of it is when have you grasped all this detailed information from the novel and once you watch the movie you have all these questions unanswered like for example, why wasn't this part in the movie? Why did they change this scene? Or why didn't they add my favorite part? Of course a movie can't add everything a book has because of the short time a movie plays for but when you see it on the big screen and it's different than how you imagined it, it can be annoying. And sometimes when a book is made into a movie you have to read the book first in order to understand the movie version and obtained the concept of the story line.

The concept of retaining more material while reading:

Another reason why books are better is because I feel that you learned a lot more from books than movies. While you read a book you are constantly learning new vocabulary terms. When you read a sentence and there's a word in it that you don't know and what it means you can usually pick up the meaning based on how the sentence is. You also pick up new ways on how to write better while you read a book. For example you will learn new ways on how to structure a sentence better, proper punctuation, and learn new writing styles. The styles of writing you can learn while reading books can be expository, persuasive, and narrative styles.

Reading expands your imagination:

One of the best parts of reading a book is using your imagination to create and customize the story to your liking. Every human has imagination, it's inevitable because we are constantly seeing thing, day dreaming, creating images, picturing how things work throughout the day. When we were younger our teacher would tell us to put a picture in your head to elaborate what we were reading. So it could help you see what was happening in the story and better understand what we were reading. When you read a book the writer details the scene so can picture it in your head easily. When the writer is describing a character for example their hair color, face structure, height and you have the ability to create an image of what the character looks like to you. There's no right or wrong on how you interpret or how you perceive the look of a character or setting of a scene in a book. While you are reading you are exercising and working your brain in a healthy way. Where in movies, there is no need for imagination because everything is leaded out and shown to you. Watching a movie doesn't work your brain at all and requires basically no imagination.
Debate Round No. 1


You say that there are more details in books. That is true, but sometimes the details do become boring. With boring detail, it makes people stop reading books. Movies get to the pint very quickly and do not dread on tiny details. Movies also can show the details in a couple seconds, while a book may take a page or two to describe what is going on. For example, in the movie Twilight, It took about a page to describe that Edward sparkled in the sunlight. In the movie, however, it took about two minutes to show that he sparkled. Also in many books, there are more questions than answers. For example, in the book Thirteen Reasons Why by Jay Asher, he leaves a cliff hanger with the main guy character and a girl he has known for many years.

I do agree that in some, and only some, cases that people do become upset with the movie version because it does not portray the book in the way that a person wanted. The writer of the movie cannot please everyone; someone is always going to be a critic. Writing a movie that came from a book is a great honor to the book writer. It shows that people believe their writing is good enough for people to view. If the writers did not want their books to be turned into movies, they can say no because it is their book. By popular opinion, the movie Jaws was a lot better of a movie than a book. There are also many other movies that were better than their books on

Books do expand the imagination, but so do movies. Movies also make you think. As you said before, sometimes movies leave out certain things that a person has to picture by themselves. Movies just help people view the characters in certain situations better. With movies, people can view things in a different way than they did in the book. Once a person views that scene in a movie, they could try to reenact the scene, which can expand the imagination.

Also, movies can also make you feel more emotions than books. For example, I know in my experience, I was reading The Notebook, and it was hard to understand what a flashback was and what wasn't. But, in the movie, I was able to understand it better. I was also showing so many emotions during the movie, but I did not show any during the book. Also, when someone is in a movie theater, there are many people around that feel the same emotion with that one person. The person can seek comfort in others who are feeling the same way as them, or even someone who is not. Also, a person can get another person's perspective on the movie to get a better understanding of the movie.

My last point is that, movies only take about two hours to watch, while books take at least one day to finish. With the little amount of time it takes to watch a movie, there are still so many more things a person can do in a day. When reading a book, there are many reasons to stop reading. For example, people take breaks to eat, sleep (if the books takes longer than a day to read), and do some chores (in some cases). With a movie, a person can just sit down, watch the movie, and then get back to what they were doing, or what they are going to be doing for the rest of the day.


Saving money with books:
In this economy it is actually cheaper to read a book than it is to go to movies theaters or rent a movie. Reading a book doesn't have to cost anything at all because you can rent it from the library, no one says you have to buy a book in order to read it. Using the library can be a great way to still be able to read all the books you want and not have it cost you a dime. When you stated that "Also, in many cases it costs a lot less to go to the movies or rent or buy a movie than it does to buy a book" That is not the case in this economy, in an article online it states that 61% of American don't go to the movies anymore and blame the high costs of tickets. Even if you just wanted to rent a movie it still cost money, renting a book doesn't.

The career opportunities with books:
There is countless job opportunity for people who are interested in the literal field. You stated that "Movies also create more job opportunities" isn't exactly the case because when writing a book it's just not a writer and a publisher who get the book out for the general public. Getting a book ready for stores takes a lot of work from multiple jobs. For example there are writers, publishers, editors, agents, printers, distributers, copy editor, production editor, typesetters, marketing expert and voice actors for audio books. Without any of those jobs a book wouldn't be able to make it to stores.

Audiobooks are a good option for people who would rather listen, then read.
You stated that "Many people enjoy the sound of another person's voice", people can have that same experience buying or renting an audiobook. On iTunes they have countless audiobook available and the library is also a good place to rent them if you don't want to spend any money and you have a recorder to listen to them on. On iTunes you can download the audiobook straight to your IPhone or iPod and listen to it anywhere you go and where ever you go making it easier to listen to an audiobook.

Social opportunities:
There are many Social opportunity that deal with books and not just movies when go to the movies theaters with friends. With books there're books clubs and meeting where you can talk about the book in depth with people and have people maybe shed light on things you might have missed. There is also the book signings that is a good way to meet new people and the authors of the books you enjoy. There is also book shopping you can do with friend or going to the library with a friend.

You said that details can become boring and make someone stop reading a book. Without the details how are you suppose to understand what is going on in the book if there isn't any detail to support what is happening in the book? The details in the book don't make someone stop reading it's the whole general concept of a book that can be boring to someone, not just some boring details here and there. Sometimes it's the details in the book the grab the reader's attention and puts them on the edge of their seat and wanting more.

When you watch a scene in a movie you don't "reenact the scene" like you said that expands the imagination. The scene is already all played out and shown right in front of you so you don't have to reenact anything or use your imagination for anything either if everything is already visually shown to you.

Books a can be emotional:
I believe books can be more emotional because you're reading the scene through the characters point of view and you're in their head. You're experiencing the scene first hand with the character instead of just watching it on the television. When the scene is very emotional you can feel it through the character and get a better feel of emotion because you're in the characters head, seeing what they're seeing, and have a better feel of the whole atmosphere of the scene.

Books are to be read in sections:
Books are made to be read in parts and not all at once. That's why there are chapters because it makes it easier for the reader to come back to where they left off. I'm not saying that some people don't enjoy reading a whole book at once because many people do. Most people also read at night before they go to sleep so they don't have any need to take any breaks like going to the bathroom, eating or walking the dog because all that is already taken care of. It's common for people to take brakes during movies because there just sitting in front of the television for 2 hours straight eating and drinking, which can make them have to take a bathroom break or even get more food.
Debate Round No. 2


Saving money with movies:
You say that people can borrow books for free in libraries, but you can also do the same thing with movies. In most libraries, there is a section for movies that people can borrow. Also, your fact about sixty-one percent of people do not go to the movies because of the high costs is invalid. That point does not prove that books are less expensive. This is just stating that people go to the movies less often, which is not what this debate is about.

The career opportunities:

Yes, I do agree that there are many jobs in the writing career. But I do not believe that there are more jobs in writing a book than there are in producing a movie. In a movie, there are at least twenty actors, a writer, a producer, many camera men, assistants, editors, set designers, prop masters, hairdressers, make-up artists, stuntmen, costume designers, and many, many more. All of these people are needed to make any movie.

Audiobooks are not always the most enjoyable:

Most audiobooks only have one voice actor. Listening to one person's voice for a whole book can become very boring. When watching a movie, a person is able to listen to multiple people's voices in many different situations. Also, in movies it is not just about the sounds, it is about the sights as well. Many people enjoy being able to view the movie because it could be easier to understand.

Social Opportunities:

A person can watch a movie with friends almost anywhere. If someone wants to set up a movie night with friends, they can talk as loudly as they want during the movie. Also if people do not feel bad for talking during the movie, they can do that as well. With a book club, a person, in most cases, has to read the book by themselves. If a person gets uninterested in a book, and joins a book club, he or she will hate the discussion of the book because the book is not enjoyable.

When you go to a library with a friend, you find a book and read it. There is not much talking between you and your friend. The same goes for when buying a book. Most of the time a person reads the back cover for the description of the book, shows the book to his or her friend, and asks for their opinion, end of conversation. With movies in theaters, there are previews before a movie that a person can watch with a friend, and the two of them can decide if they want to see it.

Scene Reenactment:

Sometimes, after children watch a movie, they try to recreate what they watch because they believe it is a fun thing to do. For example, some children might love The Lion King, so they pretend to be the characters from the movie. By reenacting the movie, it expands the imagination.

Also, there is something called Larping. Larping means Live Action Roleplaying. In Larping, people act out as characters from movies or videogames. Larping also expands the imagination. People pretend to be someone they are not for a period of time, which many people enjoy to do.

Movies are short:

I do agree that books are meant to be read in parts. But that is just my point; that it could take a long time to finish one book. With movies, a person just needs to take about a couple hours out of their day to watch one movie. With books, people can take an hour out of their day, but will most likely not be able to finish the current book they are reading. Most people become very interested in a movie, and when they are very interested, they do not take any breaks and they just watch the movie. Once a person finishes a movie, they use the bathroom and get food. That is why after a movie is over in a movie theater; there is a long line outside a bathroom. People find interest, and cannot take their eyes away from the screen.


Saving money
You said only most libraries people can borrow movies which mean that not every library has a movie section. Even when a library does have a movie section it is often small and they are very limited with the selection of movies they have. A problem with renting a movie from the library is that there is $1 a day late fee charges. Every day you are late to return your movie from the library you are charged 1 dollar and that can add up pretty fast. With books everyday you're late you only get charged 10 cents, which is a lot cheaper and won't add up to a large late bill.

Listening to one person's voice can be boring is just your own opinion and doesn't back up your argument in the slightest. Many people enjoy listening to audiobooks if it's one person or three people's voices on it. The voice actors that do audiobooks are trained to talk in the right emotion to the scene they are reading and be very enthusiastic throughout the book, thus making it not boring to listen to. If audiobooks are boring to listen to then why does iTunes have such a wide variety to pick from? If not many people where buying audiobook they would stop making them.
Social opportunities

You said that if someone were to set up a movie night with friends they can talk as loudly as they want during the movie, but if you ask me that can be just very annoying and I don't think I'm just speaking for myself here. Who wants to watch a movie with a bunch of people talking in your ear the whole time? No one, because then they won't be able to pay attention to the movie, so why watch it in the first place?

Book Clubs
When people get together at book clubs they can read books together and not always by themself like you indicated. They can all take turns reading chapters of the book and talk about it right after the reader finishes. That way no one is talking during the reading and they all can pay attention and have something to talk about after the reading. Also if someone hates the book that the book club is reading they can easily skip a few meeting till that book is done and they move on to another, no problem there.

Book Stores and Libraries
Going to the library you said there's not much talking between friends because they are only asking for options and that's the end of the conversations, why does it have to be like that? I'm sure a few friends can have more than one conversation other than about opinions of a book at a book store or library. They can talk about the books they have read, the ones they plan to read, the books that sound most interesting and so forth. Also in certain book store there are cafes in them making it a nice place to have a drink and talk with friends.

Gong to the movies with friends there is less talking I believe because when the movie is playing you have to be respectful to the people around you and not talk throughout the entire movie. Once the previews come on and the lights go down that's when the talking is over till the movie finishes.

Books are more educational
I believe books are better when it comes to education. Reading a book aloud or to yourself you are learning new words and how to pronounce words. You are also learning proper punctuation, sentence structure, and vocabulary. Reading fast is also very good skill you also pick up when you read a lot, which can let you finish a book a lot faster. That's why schools choose books and not movies for learning. Sure teachers play movies every once in a while as an educational treat but books are used almost every day in literature class so kids can gain many of the skills I just listed.
Debate Round No. 3


Even though libraries do have a huge section for books, they do not have every book that you want. If the library does not have the movie, a person could ask a librarian to get the movie as soon as possible. Then, the person would be able to get the movie a couple days later and be able to watch as many times as they want for the allotted time period.


I was researching online to see why people buy audiobooks. One thing I came across was that some people search for boring audiobooks to fall asleep to. This shows that there are boring audiobooks. I never said that all audiobooks were boring. I said that some can be boring. For example one person believed that the Forsyte Saga. There are many more opinions on boring audiobooks on this website:

Movie nights:

Some people have questions during movies and can ask questions quickly before the scene ends so they do not forget later on in the movie. Also when people are sitting at home and talking about a scene in a movie, someone can pause the movie until the other people finish their sentences. Some people just need things explained to them and it is just easier to be explained right after it happens. All in all many people just like going to the movies and watching movies with others. You do not see many people watching a movie by themselves in a movie theater.

Book Club:

You state that people can read in a group. Some people read faster than others if they are reading silently. And if they are reading silently and a person makes a noise to give a part away it could make another person lose their train of thought and even their spot in the book. Also, someone could be curious and ask what their reaction was referring to and the person with the reaction can ruin an experience for another person.

Talking in Libraries:

It is also very rude to talk in a library; especially if other people around the people talking are trying to read. The library is supposed to be a quiet place for people to concentrate on their books or whatever assignment they are doing. I am not the only one who believes this is true, many people do agree with this fact.

To the movies:

As long as people whisper to others during a movie, it is not that big of a deal to talk during the movie. I know when I am in a movie and I ask my friend or family a question very quietly, it is fine. Normally the movie is a lot louder than the person whispering their question or statement.

Movies are educational:

Many movies teach people moral lessons and teach people what is right and what is wrong. Also there are many people who believe that historical lessons can be taught from different historical movies. Also, I know of many people who do not read the textbook for class because they are boring to them. Many people do pay attention to the movies that are shown in class because they are just more enjoyable. Teachers can see that sometimes movies can help people understand what the he or she is trying to say. In my English class for example, my teacher had us read Hamlet by Shakespeare. After we finished reading the book, he had us watch the movie. A lot of people in my class were able to understand Hamlet a lot better after my teacher had us watch the movie.


Availability at Libraries

You said that the library doesn't have every book, but you go on to state that if a movie isn't at the library you can ask a librarian to order it from another library; you can do the same thing with a book if your library doesn't have it. Nevertheless libraries are usually very good at having popular books that most people will be interested in reading.
Even though you can order movies from other libraries new releases are harder to get at libraries because the libraries don't buy them right away. With books when a new release is out libraries are pretty good with having them on the shelf pretty fast. Usually when you first walk into a library in the front they have a display of newly released books.


When your home watching a movie with people you stated that they can stop it every time someone has a question or wants to say something, which can also be very annoying. Pausing a movie over and over again makes the whole watching experience of the movie unpleasant. But pausing while reading a book is not a problem and you don't have to worry about upsetting other people while you're taking breaks.

Book Clubs

When I said earlier that people can read at a book club meeting I was implying that they would read out loud together. It doesn't make sense to read silently when you're with a group of people and you're all reading the same book. Reading out loud is better so everyone can be at the someplace in the book throughout the reading. Therefore after each person is done reading if anyone has any questions they can all discuss it together as a group.

Talking in Libraries

Yes talking in libraries isn't always okay because people may be studying or reading but there are sections in libraries where people can go to talk and sit with friends if they like. But I did mention in the previous round that people can also go to books store to hang out with friends and talk as loudly as they want.


You stated that movies teach people what is right and wrong and moral lesson but so do books, but books do it in a more in depth way because books have more room to expand on things. The movies that are shown in class rooms are either documentaries or movies that are based off books that they have read already in class. The documentary's that teachers show are usually boring and not exciting to watch at all. When you stated that your teacher had you read Hamlet than showed you the movie people where able to understand it better when they watched the movie that is because they read the book first and where able to understand the concept of the movie because they had background information already from reading the book.

Books are Inspiring

Books are an inspiration to everybody and to even the movie industry. Yes you'll probably say that movies can be inspiring too but movies get made based off books, books aren't written based off movies. Books come first and many books inspire directors and film makers so much that they want to show the world how they interpreted the book through their films. Books can also inspire people by motivating people to become better individuals.
Debate Round No. 4


Movies at Libraries:

Although some libraries may not have the newest movies, they still do, in fact, have a pretty wide range of movies. Also many people enjoy classic movies that have been out on DVD for a while. Also, it is not always true that movies do not have the newest movies. For example, the movie in my town has many new releases. Also, that library advertises when the movies are in the library.

Talking during movies:

I never stated that movies should be paused every time someone has a question. There are some questions that only need a one word answer. Also, if it is really a huge problem for people to answer questions during the movie, they can politely ask the other person to be quiet. Then at the end of the movie, the person can ask all the questions they want. All I am saying is that movies can be paused in someone's home for any amount of time and it is very easy to get back into the movie after someone presses play again.

Book Clubs:

Most book clubs are not set up where people sit around in a circle and read together. Many book clubs are set up where people go home, read the section for the next meeting and then go to the meeting and discuss what was read. The only book clubs that I know where people sit around and read together are children's book clubs. Also, with book clubs, people have to accommodate for everyone's reading level. Some people read faster or slower than others so people may have trouble keeping up with the amount of pages per meeting. But, when watching movies as a group, people can view the movie at the same pace because they are all in the same room and it is playing same rate for everyone.


Not all documentaries are boring, many can be interesting. Different people believe that different things are interesting. It just depends on the person. Also, when I read Hamlet alone, I had no idea what Shakespeare was talking about, and so did many other classmates. The teacher had to explain many scenes in the book. And even after he explained some of the scenes I and others had trouble understanding Shakespeare's Hamlet. But after the class watched and discussed the movie version of Hamlet, all of us were able to understand the play.

Movies are inspiring:

Movies inspire people to do many things. For example, after many people watched The Bucket List, they were so inspired, that they created their own bucket list. There are some movies that were made before the books. For example, the Star Wars movies were shown prior to when the books were written. Also, there are many movies that were not based off of books. On this website,, there are many movies named that were not based off of any books. Movies also inspire people to do good things for others.

In conclusion, movies are better because many people are drawn to watching movies. In most movies there is a lot of clarity in what is being portrayed. Also movies are very enjoyable. Honestly, I do not know anyone who does not like being able to view movies.


Movies at library's

If library's have such a wide range of movies like you stated, then why are there so many movie rental companies out there that are doing so well? For example there is Red box, Netflix, blockbusters and Hollywood Video. Yes, libraries have movies and it's a great place to rent a few olds ones, but in this generation people want a wide range to pick from. In reality people are willing to pay for their rentals from Netflix and Hollywood videos because of the selections they get to pick from therefore, they end up spending money. With books no matter what when you rent a book at a library it doesn't cost anything. Economically, renting books are better for your wallet.

You say that movies can be paused in someone's home for any amount of time and can be easy to get back into, but how does that make movies better? I feel like that is an irrelevant sentence and doesn't prove to me that movies are better because you can pause them. Even though Books can be paused too and set aside for a while doesn't make them any better, it's just something that we can do with them.

Book Club

Okay so not every book club reads aloud and has people read at home so when there is the next meeting they all can talk about the book together. Sure, some people read slow and some read fast but I don't think half of the book will be assigned to be read in a short period of time. If that much is assigned then the slow reads just need to find a book club that is at their same reading level and paste. You then stated that when watching movies in groups everyone views the movies at the same rate, but isn't that just obvious fact and how movies are made to be? I'm not sure how that supports your argument.


I never said all documentaries are boring, I said they usually are boring that does not imply every documentary. I'm stating my own opinion on the matter and you can take it how you like. Sure people can find them interesting, that's great.


I am well aware that not every movie is based off of a book that is a quite obvious fact that I didn't think I needed to elaborate on. When I said movies are made from books, I was implying that books get turned into movies way more than movies getting turned into book. Sure there is some books based off movies, but just how often does that happen?

Therefore, I believe books are better because they give so much more information and detail, which help the reader, understand what is being implied in the text. Books also expressed what the character says, thinks, feels, and acts in situations you won't understand in movies because you are in the characters head. Books are also better because they are cheaper and don't cost anything to read and you aren't limited to a certain amount you can rent at one time unlike with movie rentals. The more you read the more you'll improve with your reading, grammar, punctuation and increase your reading speed. All these things that you can learn from books will be more helpful to you throughout your life than a few moral lessons you pick up from a movie.
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by DevonNetzley 6 years ago
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Books are better than movies, i agree tenfold.
Vote Placed by LlamaMan 6 years ago
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:23 
Reasons for voting decision: Nice debate, both sides had good valid arguments. I thought that con's arguments were more convincing but Pro was the only one with sources.