The Instigator
Valtin
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
YoungZealous
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Muhammad False or True Prophet of God

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
Valtin
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/19/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,134 times Debate No: 52909
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (12)
Votes (1)

 

Valtin

Pro

I made this debate with the request of YoungZealous, he will establish that Muhammad(pbuh) is a false Prophet and God willing I will refute his claim.

YoungZealous you may present your argument in the first round.

Good luck to both of us.

This is a pure theological debate, please limit your contentions to the topic.
YoungZealous

Con

I will not depend on the bible to prove Ahmad aka Prophet Muhammad a false prophet. I will let the Quran tells us and hadiths will say it for you. The bible will be the, I told you so book for this.

First I will say I was going to be a Muslim when I asked if The God of the bible is the God of the Qur'an. It got very clear when I found Muhammad was against the Son of God. 1 John 2:22 says t "..who denies the Son and the Father is Antichrist."

So I turned away and knew something was coming from satan to directly oppose Jesus as the Son. So I chose to debate Valtin on rather God had a Son in bible literal or not literally.

Now the last conclusion I came to when I chose not to be muslim was the way muhammad died and what the Bible says about these various prophets dying by poison foods and drinks(Jeremiah 23:15)

Before I expose muhammad by his own followers books let me say this. If you want to know about a false prophet or false Christ do research on a man named Jim Jones; a false prophet who died by poison.

We all know God as a God of his word right now watch if he holds to his word about false prophets.

Jeremiah 23:15
Holy Bible
Therefore this is what the Jehovah God the Almighty says concerning the prophets: "I will make them eat bitter food and drink poisoned water, because from the prophets of Jerusalem ungodliness has spread throughout the land."

Muhammad s Specific death in Islamic
hadiths

(My comments)
Quran tells what the angels or God would have done if muhammad was a false prophet.

Angels tell muslims you better watch this muhammad csuse we will take kill him for being false.

^Qur"an 69:44-46

Sahih International
And if Muhammad had made up about Us some [false] sayings,

Sahih International
We would have seized him by the right hand;

Sahih International
Then We would have cut from him the aorta.

Sahih International
And there is no one of you who could prevent [Us](Angels or God) from him.

If muhammad is false and adds to what God says he will die by by what ; poison and Aorta being cut.

Well muhammad said he did falsely speak about God here is the proof.
(The History of al-Tabari, Vol. 6, pages 108-111)
Muhammad could not distinguish between a revelation supposedly from God and one from Satan.

The Messenger of God was eager for the welfare of his people and wished to effect a reconciliation with them in whatever way he could... Then God revealed:... "Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?" when Satan cast on his tongue the two phrases "These are high-flying cranes; verily their intercession is to be desired." ...Then Gabriel came to the Messenger of God and said, "Muhammad, what have you done? You have recited to the people that which I did not bring to you from God, and you have said that which was not said to you." ... Then the Messenger of God said, "I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken." (The History of al-Tabari, Vol. 6, pages 108-111)

(My comment on this report on muhammad )

Now the muslim like the Pro; Valtin will all mistakenly say in Deutoronomy 18 speaks of Muhammad. Notice Muhammad just said he imputed things God hasn't said by his own confession.

Then also he says Allat manat al uzza . These are other gods not the one God whom he is giving credit to.

Now this will prove Muhammad as not the prophet God said would be like moses in deutoronomy 18:.

Deutoronomy18:3 You shall be blameless before the Lord your God. 14 For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers(Muhammad) and diviners; but as for you, the Lord your God has not appointed such for you.

A New Prophet Like Moses

15 "The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear, 16 according to all you desired of the Lord your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, "Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die."

17 "And the Lord said to me: "What they have spoken is good. 18 I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 19 And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which [I have not commanded him to speak], or [who speaks in the name of other gods](Muhammad brought up other gods and said Satan made him say it) ,..
.......that prophet [shall die]." 21 And if you say in your heart, "How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?"

Here comes the relief of God to do what he said.

Remember audience Jeremiah 23: 15 God makes false prophets eat poison.

This is an account of how muhammad died.

Narrated Anas bin Malik:
A Jewess brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and he was asked, "Shall we kill her?" He said, "No." I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of Allah's Apostle. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 47, Number 786)

Muhammad dies by aorta being cut. The Islamic revelations say muhammad would die by the angels or God if he has lied of God . The Quran or hadiths says he is aorta, the bible says he will just die and also die by poison of food.

Let's look at the sight on the muslim side.

From Bukhari's Hadith 5.713: Ibn 'Abbas replied, "That indicated the death of Allah's Apostle which Allah informed him of." 'Umar said, "I do not understand of it except what you understand."
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my (aorta) is being cut from that poison."

I noticed how awesome the quran is when I saw how the angels said "none of you can prevent [US] from him" (Muhammad.)

This was said because the jihad it's killed so many for muhammds cause and the angels was saying if he is a false prophet we will take him out like a hit man for lying about God.

The way they said they would take him out wasn't by by a sword by his artery, the aorta.
My God says in the bible he will cause the false prophets to eat bitter food and drink poison.
Because feom Jerusalem liars and false prophets learn how to steal from the truth of the jews and Christians. My God caught this man and cut his artery and left him like Pharoah dead.

AISHA is Muhammad's wife and she even says he died like the angels said he would if false.

AISHA SAYS HE DID DIE COMPLAINING OF POISON AND AORTA BEING CUT

(Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 713)
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison.

Prophecy fullfilled.

Jesus the beloved begotten son of God tells of the prophets to come. LET ME TELLING YOU IT WAS THE GOOD PROPHETS.
This includes muhammd pbuh
For his terrible revelations from satan in the CAVE AND HIS JUST LIES against the Son of God he died with specific execution of the real God.

Matthew 24: 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

This could mean the Mahdi or muhammad as the "False prophet "
Revelation
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20 : 10
And the devil(false jibreel), who deceived them,(islamic jihadists muslims and muslimahs) ;was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast(antichrist Isa) and the false prophet(mahdi or muhammd ); had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Now I tried to submit this argument without random numbers being put in my rebuttal. Last argument I had with Valtin the numbers always added to my text when I post my argument . It makes the views wonder, what happened. Thank you very much for this argument one day yoy will see the truth and you will no longer be a slave but set free from this prophet hood of muhammad.

The last Rounds I debate don't even worry I have said it all here on the first round .
Debate Round No. 1
Valtin

Pro

I will refute Con claims God willing:


Rebuttal 1:

"First I will say I was going to be a Muslim when I asked if The God of the bible is the God of the Qur'an. It got very clear when I found Muhammad was against the Son of God. 1 John 2:22 says t "..who denies the Son and the Father is Antichrist."

First of all the Qur'an says that Allah, God did not beget a Son, therefore if you say Jesus is the Son of God in figure, as he is a righteous man, then it is ok.

17:111 "Say: "Praise be to Allah, who begets no son, and has no partner in (His) dominion: Nor (needs) He any to protect Him from humiliation: yea, magnify Him for His greatness and glory!"

Qur'an 69:44-47 "And if Muhammad had made up about Us some [false] sayings, We would have seized him by the right hand; Then We would have cut from him the aorta. And there is no one of you who could prevent [Us] from him."

Allah is clearly saying that if Muhammad pbuh makes up sayings, Allah will cut him from the aorta.

"Well muhammad said he did falsely speak about God here is the proof.
(The History of al-Tabari, Vol. 6, pages 108-111)
Muhammad could not distinguish between a revelation supposedly from God and one from Satan."

'then the Messenger of God said, "I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken." (The History of al-Tabari, Vol. 6, pages 108-111)'

So this is about the satantic verses and not about the Prophet of Islam deliberately fabricating lies! This is about satan forcing the Prophet to utter lies, and not the Prophet uttering lies by his own desires.

But wait even if this unreliable story is true, was not Jesus tempted by Satan for 40 days:
Matthew 4:1 "Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil."
Does that mean Jesus was false? obviously not.

Deuteronomy 18:

How is Deuteronomy related to this?


Jeremiah 23:15 :

Let us examine the claim of Con:

Jeremiah 23:15 “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets,
‘Behold, I am going to feed them wormwood And make them drink poisonous water For from the prophets of Jerusalem Pollution has gone forth into all the land.’”

I will debunk this claim with 2 ways, the first one:

First the verse actually says that those Prophets will drink poisonous water not ' God makes false prophets eat poison.' please do not say false things on the Bible, moreover we see from the Hadith that Con provided:
Bukhari 3:47:786
"A Jewess brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet who ate from it."
Therefore it was not a drink, and this Prophecy is not about Muhammad pbuh.

Second way:
Let us look at the context Jeremiah 23:13-15 "13 “Moreover, among the prophets of Samaria I saw an offensive thing: They prophesied by Baal and led My people Israel astray. 14 “Also among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: The committing of adultery and walking in falsehood; And they strengthen the hands of evildoers, So that no one has turned back from his wickedness. All of them have become to Me like Sodom, And her inhabitants like Gomorrah."

The context is talking about the Prophets of Samaria, therefore Jeremiah 23 does not describe Muhammad pbuh in any way.


Aorta Issue:

(Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 713)
"Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."

Clearly it says that the Prophet pbuh felt that his aorta is being cut, he did not say it got cut, it felt as in it got cut.

The Prophet lived for four years after the poison!

Once the Holy Prophet (PBUH) was given food mixed with poison to eat. He who ate it first expired, but the Holy Prophet (PBUH) lived for four years even after taking that food. That food told the Holy Prophet (PBUH): There is poison in me.

The Prophet lived for four years after the poison!

Once the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam) was given food mixed with poison to eat. He who ate it first expired, but the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam) lived for four years even after taking that food. That food told the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam): There is poison in me.

The Prophet showed tremendous energy before his death, the poison had no effect on him. When the Prophet conquered Mecca, he was fasting!

AbuBakr ibn AbdurRahman reported on the authority of a Companion of the Prophet (pbuh): I saw the Prophet (pbuh) commanding the people while he was travelling on the occasion of the conquest of Mecca not to observe fast. He said: Be strong for your enemy. The Apostle of Allah (PBUH) fasted himself. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 13, Number 2358)

Also he had the power to destroy over 300 Idols:
'Most Meccans converted to Islam and Muhammad subsequently destroyed all the statues of Arabian gods in and around the Kaaba' [1]

Revelation 20:10 :
"10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Con loves to say that Isa, which is Jesus is going to hell, I have refuted the claims that Muhammad pbuh is a false Prophet, I await Con's response.


[1] F. E. Peters (2003), p.240
YoungZealous

Con

By the way Happy Easter Valtin
and the viewers. Mark 9 just came to mind when when i read icer your sayings Jesus says,

My favorite part in this debate from my opponent is when he says,"First of all the Qur'an says that Allah, God did not beget a Son, therefore if you say Jesus is the Son of God in figure, as he is a righteous man, then it is ok."

17:111 "Say: "Praise be to Allah, w

Jesus response to you
John 10: 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world(Christ )? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, (("I am God"s Son")))? 37Do not believe me(Muslim) unless I do the works of my Father. 38But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.

Mark 9:
13 You (muslim) nullify the word of God(Bible) by your tradition(Denial that Muhammad was false); that you have handed down(muslims classes). And you do many things like that
.(Hadiths filled with outrageous claims about the sun setting in murky water and prayer before you eat or the devil will eat with you ")

^thus you play with God and pass around lying traditions other than the truth.

Now in the first round I have proved Muhammad PBUH wasn't a prophet but Valtin hasn't proved to us that Muhammad Pbuh was the prophet of God.

Based on the way the quran condemns Muhammad from being the truth it is hard to prove him a prophet.

OK as I read your beginning of your rebuttal, I noticed you repeated all that I said as if repeating solved or answered anything.
Pro says to me,

So this is about the satantic verses and not about the Prophet of Islam deliberately fabricating lies! This is about satan forcing the Prophet to utter lies, and not the Prophet uttering lies by his own desires.

But wait even if this unreliable story is true, was not Jesus tempted by Satan for 40 days:
Matthew 4:1 "Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil."
Does that mean Jesus was false? obviously not.
I quoted Muhammad's aorta would be cut if he was a false prophet with a spell or without Satan's spell he would be cut by his aorta.

*my response to your comment
Yes this is satanic the things that Satan made a prophet do.
Who do you think inspires a false prophet ; Satan. You are the like the demonic movie The Exorcist. If Satan can make his voice to speak on your tongue this means you are led by that spirit of Satan .

so you agree that mohammed was Satanically possessed. Muhammad was not tempted he was entered and controlled. Jesus was tempted which means there is a choice. Faith and didn't enter enter Jesus it says the spirit enter it into Jesus at baptism which is the Holy Spirit of God. If you were asked to drink a beer and smoke weed with some friends and have sex would you be sinning if you were tempted by it or will you sin when you actually do it? The sin doesn't happen until you say yes or act in on that temptation that's when the sin happens. It would be different if your books said mohammed received power from God and then was tempted or somewhere along the line of that . What makes it worse is that they didn't say nothing like this. This came from your books and the Hadiths and not my book. what now I'm questioning if your books are credible. Because from these hadiths you justify many things in Islam but when it speaks against you you say no it is corrupt. Make up your mind please. he wasn't tempted he was used by Satan. Muhammad situation is an example: Jesus would have been if Jesus bowed to satan. So no Jesus didn't commit a sin. I rest my case on that part that mohammed was demon possessed which means that he cannot be a prophet of God no Prophet was demon possessed.

So now we know Satan can use Mohammed anytime during his life.
I will bring up the verse from the Quran about Jesus just to reiterate that Jesus was in this. In the Quran it says that Jesus and Adam was the only one who was not touched by Satan. So that should be enough to show who's the boss in the picture between Satan and Jesus.

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith, Hadith 4.506, narrated by Abu Huraira:

عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ قَالَ قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم R07;"R07; كُلُّ بَنِي آدَمَ يَطْعُنُ الشَّيْطَانُ فِي جَنْبَيْهِ بِإِصْبَعِهِ حِينَ يُولَدُ، غَيْرَ عِيسَى بْنِ مَرْيَمَ، ذَهَبَ يَطْعُنُ فَطَعَنَ فِي الْحِجَابِ R07;"R07;R07;.R07;

The Prophet said, "When any human being is born, Satan touches him at both sides of the body with his two fingers, except Jesus, the son of Mary, whom Satan tried to touch but failed, for he touched the placenta-cover instead."
I rest my case on that part.

Deutoronomy

"You asked how is Deutoronomy related to this?"

It is related because this is a Bible verse that Muslim faith mohammed was prophesied to come in. I use this book 2 review that Muhammad was not profit which Deuteronomy 18 spoke about that's why I used it. Keep in mind that we are trying to prove Mohammad as not a true prophet. That Deuteronomy Bible verse says if a profit speaks in another God's name then he is not from me. I brought that up because mohammed spoke in the name of Allat Manat and Al uzza. So that prophecy of Deuteronomy 18 will be debunked him from the bible.

The poison to false prophets in
Jeremiah

I will debunk disclaimer that it would only be cooked lamb that is poison by showing him there is various ways of poison.
Now if you read the book of Revelation the book speak of a poisonous star that will hit the earth and it is called wormwood.

Now Jeremiah 23 says I will cause the prophets to eat bitter food or translate it wormwood which is a form of poison.

Revelation 8:11 `58;
Parallel Verses
New International Version
the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.

So either way God made him eat poison or drink poison. Muhammad was set up with a table of poison and whatever it was with poison. God set it up as he said it would happen and it just so happened that in Jeremiah's book false prophets died by drink of poison but God is a living God.

The attempts you said that the Muhammad man didn't die immediately but like 4 years.

Well whenever a guy has cancer it is like a poisonous effect but you don't die immediately just as this poison.
I love the definition of poison cause this exposes the plan you have to justify how muhammad stayed alive so long.

Poison

a substance that, when introduced into or absorbed by a living organism, causes death or injury, esp. (one that kills by rapid action even in a small quantity.)

Note it says small quantity meaning it has effect on them long term.

Muhammad died by poison Valtin there isn't any way around it.

(Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 47, Number 786)
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
A Jewess brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and he was asked, "Shall we kill her?" He said, "No." I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of Allah's Apostle.

You said to me about my favorite book Revelation,

Revelation 20:10 :
"10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Con loves to say that Isa, which is Jesus is going to hell, I have refuted the

claims that Muhammad pbuh is a false Prophet, I await Con's response.

My collected thoughts on this last part was so off topic. I never said Jesus was going to hell your belief says that probably.

I said the false prophet which jesus isn't a prophet he is the Son of the most high it's impossible for hell to endure him.

The dead would all rise if he stayed in hell. Jesus did go to death and take many out.
And if you believe on the Son of God he will take you out of death by the power of God's hand if not then you'll be there with the false prophets. To be on subject this is Mohammed or the Mahdi. The beast is the Antichrist Issa his religion is Islam.
Realize it says the Revelation "the devil who deceived them was casted into the pit." Who is the ones from the deceived? The ones from the deceived are the ones who follow the deceived one and that was Muhammad as you said he was possessed.
Also your books say he was too so it is obvious to you with clear signs that mohammed was the false prophet deceived by Satan he spoke with Satan wanted and that was that there is no begotten Son of God. As all the prophets have already confessed that there is a son of God.

Muhammad not a true prophet based on the execution of his life and the poison and his aorta being cut.

Jesus is the only way to God muhammad got in his way and he paid the price.
Psalms 2

12Kiss his son, or he will be angry
and your way will lead to your destruction,
for his wrath can flare up in a moment.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

Now jesus tells the truth and is the only way to God and doesn't lie now I'm a follower of a man who hasn't been touched by satan . I'm telling you that jesus says he is false prophet and you can trust in the son of God and be assured you will go to heaven.

John 10
25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father"s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than allc ; no one can snatch them out of my Father"s hand. 30I and the Father are one."

Jesus is God's Son no angel or man can move that from God. Muhammad may peace be upon him is resting like he wanted to.

Muhammad wanted to unify his people that was his only wish not to be something he wasn't.
When he died he found it a relief.

He knew the angel was evil but willing to give him anything .

He only wanted the best for his people. This wasn't to be a religion to spread for all to follow but the angel wouldn't have it this way.So the angel made Muhammad Pbuh spread the angels lie abroad with many painful revelations.

God gave the Arabian world a break from evil but they loved evil so til this day muslim countries are left with gangs thinking muhammad really wanted to continue this islamic conquest when all he wanted was unity in Arabia.

Muhammad wanted to commit suicide csuse of the angel.

In "Muhammad at Mecca", by W. M. Watt, [6], pages 40, 41, there are also references that detail Muhammad's suicidal thoughts. Watt quotes from az-Zuhri's material.

"He (Muhammad) said, I had been meditating throwing myself from a mountain crag, but while I was so meditating, he appeared to me and said, "O Muhammad, I am Gabriel, and thou are the Messenger of God."....
Az-Zuhri said: "There was a gap for a time in the revelation to the Messenger of God and he was very sorrowful. He started going early to the tops of the mountains to throw himself down from them. But whenever he reached the summit of a mountain, Gabriel would appear to him and say, "Thou are the Prophet of God."
Debate Round No. 2
Valtin

Pro

"By the way Happy Easter Valtin"

I do not celebrate Easter, I do not celebrate Pagan holidays.

Thanks for you response Con, now to my rebuttal:

Rebuttal 2:

"Jesus response to you
John 10: 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world(Christ )? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, (("I am God"s Son")))? 37Do not believe me(Muslim) unless I do the works of my Father. 38But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."

I do not like the Con puts those words in the text, I will paste the verse so viewers can understand better:
John 10:36-38 "36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”"

That is Jesus response to the Jews who claimed he blasphemed, let us see the context:
John 10:31-34 " 30 I and the Father are one.” 31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods?"

Jesus is quoting Psalms, I still do not know how is Jesus responding to me.

"Mark 9:
13 You (muslim) nullify the word of God(Bible) by your tradition(Denial that Muhammad was false); that you have handed down(muslims classes). And you do many things like that
.(Hadiths filled with outrageous claims about the sun setting in murky water and prayer before you eat or the devil will eat with you ")"

Mark 9 does not mention that, see http://www.biblegateway.com...

Verse 13 says the following: "13 But I say to you that Elijah has indeed come, and they did to him whatever they wished, just as it is written of him."

First lets answer the following claim:
'Hadiths filled with outrageous claims about the sun setting in murky water and prayer before you eat or the devil will eat with you '

Sun setting in a murky water is obviously a metaphor and obviously it is used in the QURAN NOT HADITH.

"They ask thee concerning Zul-Qarnain. Say, I will rehearse to you something of his story. Verily we established his power on earth, and we gave him the ways and the means to all ends. One (such) way he followed. Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: near it he found a people." (Holy Qur'an 18:83-86)


"Al-Qaffal said: It is not meant by reaching the rising or setting of the sun that he reached its body and touched it because it runs in the sky around the earth without touching it and it is too great to enter any spring on earth. It is so much larger than earth. But it is meant that he reached the end of populated land east and west, so he found it - according to his vision - setting in a spring of a murky water like we watch it in smooth land as if it enters inside the land. That is why He said, "he found it rising on a people for whom we had provided no covering protection against the sun." (Holy Qur'ân 18:90) and did not mean that it touches or adheres to them; but they are the first to rise on.



Al-Qutabiy said: Probably this spring is a part of the sea and the sun sets behind, with or at it, so the proposition takes the place of an adjective and Allah knows best."

(Al-Qurtubi, Al-Game' le Ahkam-el-Qur'an, Volume 16, page 47. Published by Dar-ul-Hadith, Cairo, Egypt. ISBN 977-5227-44-5)

I think this will suffices, about the 'devil eating with you' it is figurative, as figures are used in the Bible:
"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars." (Revelation 12:1)

Now please are you going to tell me that the woman was clothed with the Sun? obviously a metaphor.


Satanic verses:

I have never agreed that Muhammad pbuh was possesed as I said from before that the story is not reliable:

Let us see what Al-Tabari said, because he is the one who wrote the story:
"Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us."

(Abu Ja`far Muhammad bin Jarir al-Tabari, Tarikh al-Tabari: Tarikh al-Umam wal-Muluk, 1997, Volume I, Dar al-Kutub al-'Ilmiyyah, Beirut (Lebanon), p. 13)

Allah further in the Qur'an answers: "Never did We send an apostle or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but God will CANCEL anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and God will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for God is full of Knowledge and Wisdom: That He may make the suggestions thrown in by Satan, but a trial for those in whose hearts is a disease and who are hardened of heart: verily the wrong-doers are in a schism far (from the Truth): And that those on whom knowledge has been bestowed may learn that the (Quran) is the Truth from thy Lord, and that they may believe therein, and their hearts may be made humbly (open) to it: for verily God is the Guide of those who believe, to the Straight Way. Those who reject Faith will not cease to be in doubt concerning (Revelation) until the Hour (of Judgment) comes suddenly upon them, or there comes to them the Penalty of a Day of Disaster. "


(The Noble Quran, 22:52-55)


Deuteronomy 18:

"I brought that up because mohammed spoke in the name of Allat Manat and Al uzza. So that prophecy of Deuteronomy 18 will be debunked him from the bible."

But you have not proven that Muhammad pbuh spoke in the name of Allat manat and al uzza, you have quoted the verses and said the following:

"(Muhammad brought up other gods and said Satan made him say it) ,.."

But you have not proven that!
Therefore your claim is dismissed until you bring proof.

Jeremiah 23:

"Now Jeremiah 23 says I will cause the prophets to eat bitter food or translate it wormwood which is a form of poison."

Wrong, Jeremiah 23:15 says " “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets, ‘Behold, I am going to feed them wormwood And make them drink poisonous water For from the prophets of Jerusalem Pollution has gone forth into all the land.’”

And then further claims that wormwood is a form of poison, but the dictionary of the Holy Bible disagrees:

"the star called Wormwood seems to denote a mighty prince, or power of the air, the instrument, in its fall." [1]

Therefore wormwood is not a kind of poison, his argument falls.

Again Ignores my second debunk on the context and does not answer it, and deliberately ignores it.

And Prophet Muhammad pbuh Hadith in Bukhari 3:47:786 does not say he died again Con is false when he said:
"Muhammad died by poison Valtin there isn't any way around it."

Do not force false things down my throat.

"My collected thoughts on this last part was so off topic. I never said Jesus was going to hell your belief says that probably."

My belief does not say that, that is what you have said.

" said the false prophet which jesus isn't a prophet he is the Son of the most high it's impossible for hell to endure him."

Jesus is a Prophet, he said it himself, do not lie on Jesus:
Matthew 21:11 "And the crowds were saying, "This is the prophet Jesus, from Nazareth in Galilee."


"Also your books say he was too so it is obvious to you with clear signs that mohammed was the false prophet deceived by Satan he spoke with Satan wanted and that was that there is no begotten Son of God. As all the prophets have already confessed that there is a son of God."

Baseless assertion with no evidence.

And then rants about how Jesus is cool and stuff,etc, again he ignores most of my arguments and pretty much says alot of false things.

I see nothing wrong when Muhammad pbuh was scared of an angel, Con is very agitated throughout the debate.

"God gave the Arabian world a break from evil but they loved evil so til this day muslim countries are left with gangs thinking muhammad really wanted to continue this islamic conquest when all he wanted was unity in Arabia."

Again baseless claims, Con really has hatred against Muslims.

Con has many assertions without evidence such us:

"He knew the angel was evil but willing to give him anything ."

And throughout the debate he did not stick to the subject

And shows ignorance on his part, as he said the Metaphor was used in the Qur'an not Hadith.

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org...
YoungZealous

Con

The kaaba in Saudi Arabia is a stone in which they all prostrate before from pagans with pillars in it look a t a picture of it as you observe what God said not to do.
Here is the pic of Mecca a pagan ritual done every day.

http://looklex.com...

Leviticus 26 : 1
"'You shall make for yourselves no idols, neither shall you raise up an engraved image or a pillar, neither shall you place any figured stone in your land, to bow down to it: for I am Yahweh your God.

The pagans of Arabia call the Heads(Christians and jews) Monotheistic children pagans?
First what god did Muhammad serve before he claimed one god?

He served the idol allah; the same as allat manat and al uzza.
The history says these were daughters of allah.
Judge not less you be judged.
Your prayer you do every day 5 times was stolen from the pagans who occupied mecca first. They used to circle the kaaba stone naked and now you pray towards the kaaba stone now it's ok?

Muhammd many times switched his opinion. On what to worship or what to do as a new religion .. One time he said Satan used him to say allat manat al uzza.

Hadith admits the hajj is pagan practices. Only reason they followed this is cause Muhammd was unsure and wanted the stone for his religion.

- Sahih Bukhari 6:60:23

U93; "Narrated 'Asim bin Sulaiman: I asked Anas bin Malik about Safa and Marwa. Anas replied, "We used to consider (i.e. going around) them a custom of the Pre-islamic period of Ignorance, so when Islam came, we gave up going around them. Then Allah revealed" "Verily, Safa and Marwa (i.e. two mountains at Mecca) are among the Symbols of Allah. So it is not harmful of those who perform the Hajj of the House (of Allah) or perform the Umra to ambulate (Tawaf) between them." (2.158)"

Since you think you are none pagan I will show your everyday pagan ritual of praying towards a stone in a pagan unity to allah.

In fact Muhammad's dad served the Pre-islamic idol allah. His name gave it away. Abdullah -A slave of allah.

Just because Muhammad was choked one day and chose monotheism doesn't make him a none pagan. Satan is monotheistic too.

But to make this clear that Muslim prayers are against the laws of Moses and Abraham look at this law and see if being towards the Kaaba is pagan worship.
Leviticus 26 : 1
World English Bible
"'You shall make for yourselves no idols, neither shall you raise up an engraved image or a pillar, neither shall you place any figured stone in your land, to bow down to it: for I am Yahweh your God.

Since you serve the god.......; we don't even know what the god you serve. I guess you can say this don't include you. If you claim to be following the God of Abraham then yes this includes you muslim.

I talked to Muslims about this they will say I don't bow to a stone . How is it that a Hindu can bow before an idol and you pagans from Islam say they are pagans for bowing towards their gods?
Then you daily devout your knees to mecca and in that place is a black meteorite aka stone?
Jesus said you hypocrites put laws on others and you don't obey them neither or lift a hand to help the other.

So Easter is the day Jesus rose from the grave.
The soul reason I said happy Easter is because we will all raise on the coming of Jesus banquet of return set by his Father. All will raise some to judgment and some to everlasting life. Jesus said if you have not the son you have no life in you. Christians will raise up from the grave with Jesus walking with him the rest will sleep.
I wouldn't consider Jesus a pagan holiday. Almost Every day a has a pagan event from the past just about. That doesn't mean that person is following Pagan rituals.
What satan means for bad God means for good. So Christmas , we flip the traditions to do what we ought. To make make a ritual that of bowing towards an image towards a place of pagans every time we pray is provoking God.

So Pro has just been brought to the light of what moses said to you about bowing to a stone in the land as sacred.

Let us quote it again and see if you fail
The test.

Now I'm about to tear into you for trying to be a hard anus.
The first rebuttal you brought up was pointless. It was about me putting parenthesis in the scriptures.
I apologize for putting that in it because I forgot you never read the bible so that verse i gave was very new to you . This explains why you had to look it up with ignoring my parenthesis. The Muslim ignores jesus so much even if Jesus said word for word and physically appeared Islam was wrong they still would stay in it .

Jesus said his words is going to judge you in the day of Christ.
So it will help to apply this to your self when I quote scripture.

Leviticus 26 : 1
World English Bible
"'You shall make for yourselves no idols, neither shall you raise up an (engraved image) (or a pillar), (neither shall you place any figured stone in your land), (to (bow )down to it): for I am Yahweh your God.
^ : )
See if he fails by bowing to mecca today with his pagan ritual.

Jesus says John 15: (22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.)

So I have pruned his sayings about Easter being a pagan holiday.

I Think it was the second argument you quoted half of what I sent you then you asked how did it apply to you?
Let's read the verse you sent.

34 Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, "I said, you are gods"?"

Pro:
Jesus is quoting Psalms, I still do not know how is Jesus responding to me.

My response as the Con of the false prophet debate is that you didn't quote the whole thing which is very bad to do in understanding scripture. Then Con says what does psalms have to do with me as if I said look at Psalms.

You left out the part he says , "Because I claim to be the Son of God? "
Here is the whole verse so the muslims and non muslims can see the Pro acts as if I didn't address something specifically by ignoring the passage actually meant for him.

John 10: 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, "I am God"s Son"?

Jesus was claiming to be the son of God in Which Jesus would have been committing shirk to the muslim.
Just to help you out with a verse that Jesus said he was the Son of God. That's why i gave you that verse.

Now addressing the rebuttal of you providing a link of the bible verse of Jesus saying you nullify the words of God.

Now since you don't know the Word of God I will warn you beforehand. The things that I put in parentheses are either my comments or it is to highlight what to focus on.

Next point is about the fact Pro tells us the sun sets in muddy water is a metaphor.

This sun setting in a muddy water is persistent in the sayings of muhammad which in our case would make anyone think he believes that is how it sets.

There is a hadith by Abu Dharr which has Muhammad making similar claims concerning the sunset:

Now I really do understand the passages you say it is figurative because it could be a time he reached the place the sun was setting. On the other hand this passage isn't about reaching a place during a time it's about the sun in the sky.

So this passage will show if muhammad changes his answer on how the sun sets.

" al-Zamakhshari, The Kahshaf (3rd Edition, Vol. 2, p. 743, 1987) [1]

"Abu Dharr (one of Muhammad"s close companions) was with Muhammad during the sunset. Muhammad asked him: "Do you know, O Abu Dharr where this sun sets?" He answered; "God and His apostle know better." Muhammad said: "It sets in a spring of slimy water""

Sunan Abu Dawud 3991"Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water.

Now I would have said it doesn't go into a place of muddy water but it circles the earth with no setting in mud .

So this prophet had no idea of the sun's operation. There was a verse in Revelation you referred to about the dragon and woman. Well Revelation is a book of the most metaphors known to be. The quran is not composed of metaphors as much. So I take it literal that muhammad said the sun sets in muddy water.
You Cant Be A prophet saying the sun sets in a water.

I love using the dictionary to show if the shoe fits the liar. To show you Muhammad was Satanically possessed. Look at this: Demonic possession is held by many belief systems to be the spirit possession of an individual by a malevolent preternatural being, commonly known as a demon. Descriptions of demonic possessions often include erased memories or personalities, convulsions, "fits" and fainting as if one were dying.[1] Other descriptions include access to hidden knowledge (gnosis) and foreign languages (xenoglossia), drastic changes in vocal intonation and facial structure, the sudden appearance of injuries

Satanic verses:

I have never agreed that Muhammad pbuh was possesed as I said from before that the story is not reliable:

Yes you did

Here is were you said it along these lines.

"So this is about the satantic verses and not about the Prophet of Islam deliberately fabricating lies! This is about satan (forcing the Prophet to utter lies,) and (not the Prophet uttering lies by his own desires")

I had dreams of me speaking demonic sayings and it wasn't by my own will but I was possessed by satan in Influences.

So muhammad as you said was forced like me to speak satanic. This means he was possessed right. I can't trust a possessed prophet. There is no prophet possessed by God and that is vert dangerous to call a man a prophet whom Satan can often control.

Thus is a false prophet as we see Muhammad fits the description
But you have not proven that he wasn't!

Therefore your claim is dismissed until then.

You said Jesus said he was a prophet.

The only time period jesus allowed others to think he was a prophet was when he was to keep his identity hidden. The title Prophet was enough until his time came to show who he really was like superman and spiderman etc. They hide their identity and let anyone call them who ever cause rho they ate really is concealed.

Jesus real identity wasn't a prophet it was the Son of God.

It's funny cause all the verses of Jesus saying he was the Son and he was God you ignore those passages. Yet a small verse that people say prophet yoy think that's his while identify. Narrow minded religious debater.

Now I will show you verses of Jesus indirectly denying the title (prophet.)

Matthew 16

Peter Declares That Jesus Is the Messiah(Note with Messiah thr jews put the son of God with it )

13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"

14They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets." ( Muslims response is in the minds of the disciples also.)

15"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"

16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hadesc will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven

Here we have jesus asking the 12 disciples who do people say I am and what does it look like to you who I am?

You see the disciples say PROPHET but jedus doesn't bless them. Why not ? They weren't right. You don't give reward to one who has a wrong out take on who you are yoy bless the one who knows who you are.
So if Jesus blessed the one saying he was the Son of God and ignoring the ones who called him just a prophet. Then how will Muhammad's followers be treated on the day Jesus returns?

Now this should tell you Jesus approves of one who know he is the Son of God. This explains the bible verse jesus will day to many on the day of judgment,

" away with me you who doeth iniquity for I never knew you "

This is the people who say Prophet Jesus not to the ones you say Son of God and lives in the Son of God they will be accepted on the right hand of the Father. Now mohammed people all have to say that is the Son of God this will mean many who call Jesus only a prophet will be left with the false prophet and Satan which is hell.

There is another bible verse were jesus indirectly directs the a woman to see Jesus is not a prophet but is the Son of God aka Messiah.

John 4;
2 19"Sir," the woman said, "I can see that you are a prophet. 20Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem. . ................ (Jesus tells this woman her life in front of her which changed her mind feom prophet to Messiah aka son of GOD )

5The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."
26Then Jesus declared, "I, the one speaking to you"I am he."

Pro consistently says I haven't debunked anything because that's his wish that others would be as blind thus way satan let's muhammad keep you a slave to his idol allah.

PRO SAID TO ME

I see nothing wrong when Muhammad pbuh was scared of an angel, Con is very agitated throughout the debate.

Well maybe I should show yoy places he was afraid and noticed his n possession
mon possessed.

(The Life of Muhammad: Sirat Rasul Allah, Muhammad ibn Ishaq, translted by Alfred Guillaume, Oxford Press, page 106

"Woe is me, poet or possessed -- Never shall the Quraysh say this of me! I will go to the top of the mountain and throw myself dowm that I may kill myself and gain rest."

Last but not least my viewers Pro has said
" Again baseless claims, Con really has hatred against Muslims.
Con has many assertions without evidence such us:"

The Hadith numbers aren't for you to see if they look familiar but Evidence for the claims I dared to use.
References are the reason I believe in what I believe and thr reason I was interested in the bible. References are to give you proof that I didn't just say this but you can look it up.

Conclusion
Here so far you can say and discuss that Muhammad was possessed out of his control by satan as you said. You can also says he says outrageous sayings about where the sun goes after it sets. Also you can say muhammad condoned idol worship to follow pagans hajj of Islam called the kaaba bowing which scripture says not to do. Making Muhammad a law breaker. Mentioning other gods and saying satan made me say it and was according to the Bible worthy of death. We see God made Muhammad to die by poison as he said they would and thst specifically God had the muslims wrote that he died the way the angels said he would if he fabricated things on God. We have Jesus in time redirecting the Prophet status back to his Messiah Son of God true status.

Looks like to me there is enough to tell if this muhammad person was a God prophet or a satanic prophet.

Also the fruits he left Islam with is the reason for war terrorism in the East and West North and South. TV does
Not know Islam imitates their king Muhammad. This why christ followers aren't doing the crusade thing cause the commands of Jesus is plain and read to almost anyone that we don't terrorize. Muhammad's teachings is the reason many in history has been killed for differences of belief. U can honestly look at Christians belief and disown thr killings of false Christians csuse jedus didn't command to do so. When you look at Muhammad you can find a justification for rape , polygamy, slavery, copyrighting , etc.

So as you csn see I proved without any rebuke to it that muhammad was never a prophet of God but a mere man possessed by his own desires and Satan's also.
Debate Round No. 3
Valtin

Pro

Thanks for the response Con.

"The kaaba in Saudi Arabia is a stone in which they all prostrate before from pagans with pillars in it look a t a picture of it as you observe what God said not to do.
Here is the pic of Mecca a pagan ritual done every day."

Obviously we are not prostrating for the house that Abraham and Ishmael built, we call it the Kaaba, the house of God, the actual pillars are the pillars of the Mosque not the Kaaba, Con accuses Muslim of Paganism because we prostrate, when the Bible clearly disagrees with him:

Exodus 34:8 "And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped."
Deuteronomy 9:25 "So I fell down before the LORD the forty days and nights, which I did because the LORD had said He would destroy you."
2 Chronicles 7:3 "3 All the sons of Israel, seeing the fire come down and the glory of the Lord upon the house, bowed down on the pavement with their faces to the ground, and they worshiped and gave praise to the Lord, saying, “Truly He is good, truly His lovingkindness is everlasting.”


We simply follow the Prophets of God, again ignorance shown from Con.


"First what god did Muhammad serve before he claimed one god?

He served the idol allah; the same as allat manat and al uzza.
The history says these were daughters of allah.
Judge not less you be judged.
Your prayer you do every day 5 times was stolen from the pagans who occupied mecca first. They used to circle the kaaba stone naked and now you pray towards the kaaba stone now it's ok?"

Actually baseless claims, In Islam, Prophet Muhammad never lied and was trustworthy, never gambled and never worshipped Pagan Gods, the Arabs knew the presence of the one true God, but ascribed daughters to him, which Con mentioned, but therewas never an Idol called 'Allah', and more frail and claims that have no legs to stand on, those are the underlined one.


"Muhammd many times switched his opinion. On what to worship or what to do as a new religion .. One time he said Satan used him to say allat manat al uzza."

No comment,he has not provided evidence for the following.

"Hadith admits the hajj is pagan practices. Only reason they followed this is cause Muhammd was unsure and wanted the stone for his religion."

Let me clarify something, the Pagans used to worship one God which is Allah, but then drifted from the straight path:
"Ibn Abbas reported: During the pre-Islamic days women circumambulated the Ka'ba nakedly, and said: Who would provide cloth to cover the one who is circumambulating the Ka'ba so that she would cover her private parts? And then she would say: Today will be exposed the whole or the part and what is exposed I shall not make it lawful. It was in this connection that the verse was revealed: "Adorn yourself at every place of worship" (vii. 31). (Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 043, Number 7179)"

So we know that they still have the old rituals but have corrupted them, and made pagan gods:

Narrated Abu Huraira: "In the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allahs Apostle made Abu Bakr the leader of the pilgrims, the latter (Abu Bakr) sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: 'No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year, and no naked person is allowed to perform Tawaf of the Kaba.' (See Hadith No. 365 Vol. 1). (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 689)"


First I'd like to mention the Tawaf, or going in circles around the Kaaba is in the Bible as the People in the Book of Joshua went 7 times around the city of Jericho, 7 times is the same number as how many times Muslims do Tawaf, yet the ignorance of Con was strong. (Joshua 6:15)

"In fact Muhammad's dad served the Pre-islamic idol allah. His name gave it away. Abdullah -A slave of allah.

Just because Muhammad was choked one day and chose monotheism doesn't make him a none pagan. Satan is monotheistic too.

But to make this clear that Muslim prayers are against the laws of Moses and Abraham look at this law and see if being towards the Kaaba is pagan worship."


You have still not provided for the Idol called 'Allah', he was considered a 'Moon god' but then Allah revealed the verse:
"And of His signs are the night and day and the sun and moon. Do not prostrate to the sun or to the moon, but prostrate to Allah, who created them, if it should be Him that you worship" (Qur'an 41:37)

We prostrate to Allah as said in the verse above, we do not worship idols.

"So Easter is the day Jesus rose from the grave."

It is all Pagan, X-mas, Easter,etc:
"The Sumerian goddess Inanna, or Ishtar, was hung naked on a stake, and was subsequently resurrected and ascended from the underworld. One of the oldest resurrection myths is Egyptian Horus. Born on 25 December, Horus and his damaged eye became symbols of life and rebirth. Mithras was born on what we now call Christmas day, and his followers celebrated the spring equinox. ."[1]

It is clearly Pagan, ALSO KAABA IS NOT AN IDOL IT IS THE HOUSE OF GOD.

"Now I'm about to tear into you for trying to be a hard anus."

I urge viewers to consider the conduct votes to me, because of what Con said.

"I apologize for putting that in it because I forgot you never read the bible so that verse i gave was very new to you ."

I know the Bible more than you, so please dont try to be tough.

"explains why you had to look it up with ignoring my parenthesis. "

Nope I had to get the original verses because your parentheses are annoying, and mean nothing.



Issue of the Son of God I have cleared that up in the second round.


"al-Zamakhshari, The Kahshaf (3rd Edition, Vol. 2, p. 743, 1987) "

I tried to find the source for this, unfortunatly Pro is using Answering Islam www.answering-islam.org/authors/cornelius/sun_in_muddy_pool.html

That source that Con provided cannot be found on the internet, he put a citation, but still did not mention the citation with the source.

I have proved that It is a metaphor.

Let us see the verse again:
18:86 "حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ وَوَجَدَ عِندَهَا قَوْمًا ۗ قُلْنَا يَا ذَا الْقَرْنَيْنِ إِمَّا أَن تُعَذِّبَ وَإِمَّا أَن تَتَّخِذَ فِيهِمْ حُسْنًا"
Arabic word used is 'wajada', therefore it appeared so to Zhul-Qarnayn, the underlined and bolded word is 'Wajada'.
Therfore the verse is metaphorical/appearing to Zhul-Qarnayn.
And ofcourse the Prophet is quoting the Qur'an.

" love using the dictionary to show if the shoe fits the liar. "
Apparently Con disagrees with the scholars, and does not prove I am lying.


Satanic verses:

I told you it is unreliable, and clearly not true because what is said in the Qur'an:
"Never did We send an apostle or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but God will CANCEL anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and God will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for God is full of Knowledge and Wisdom: That He may make the suggestions thrown in by Satan, but a trial for those in whose hearts is a disease and who are hardened of heart: verily the wrong-doers are in a schism far (from the Truth)"
22:52-55

"the only time period jesus allowed others to think he was a prophet was when he was to keep his identity hidden."

Again he showed the same response about hidden identity from the previous debate, that Jesus had a hidden name!!

Please do not lie on Jesus because you do not know him personally, and therefore do not know his secrets he has some.

Jesus in Matthew 16 never denies he is a prophet, I have explained Son of God in round 2.

"Now this should tell you Jesus approves of one who know he is the Son of God. This explains the bible verse jesus will day to many on the day of judgment,

" away with me you who doeth iniquity for I never knew you "

That is what Jesus will tell you!! quote the full verse!!

Matthew 7:22-23 ""Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'"

Muslims never cast out demons in Jesus's name or perform miracles in Jesus name and do not prophecise in Jesus's name, that is what the Christians do!! and Jesus will tell you in the day of Judgement:

"23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Jesus will tell you he NEVER KNEW YOU!

"The Hadith numbers aren't for you to see if they look familiar but Evidence for the claims I dared to use.
References are the reason I believe in what I believe and thr reason I was interested in the bible. References are to give you proof that I didn't just say this but you can look it up."

This is a debate I won't look up things for you.


Then Con just babbles about how Muslims are terrorists and how Muhammad pbuh was never a prophet of God, etc.

Arguments dropped by Con:

Jeremiah 23
The Aorta issue
Deuteronomy 18

And in the last round, 60% of his round is used to accuse Muslims of paganism which has been refuted.

[1]http://www.theguardian.com...
YoungZealous

Con

PRO SAYS
"Obviously we are not prostrating for the house that Abraham and Ishmael built, we call it the Kaaba, the house of God, the actual pillars are the pillars of the Mosque not the Kaaba, Con accuses Muslim of Paganism because we prostrate, when the Bible clearly disagrees with him:

Exodus 34:8 "And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped."
Deuteronomy 9:25 "So I fell down before the LORD the forty days and nights, which I did because the LORD had said He would destroy you."
2 Chronicles 7:3 "3 All the sons of Israel, seeing the fire come down and the glory of the Lord upon the house, bowed down on the pavement with their faces to the ground, and they worshiped and gave praise to the Lord, saying, "Truly He is good, truly His lovingkindness is everlasting."

MY RESPONSE to this is
First the pillars are still apart of the temple in Mecca. God said do not erect pilars and a sacred stone to bow towards. That's the problem you have is nit picking the things that csn go off topic from recognizing what is truly speaking to you.

Now like I said if muhammad killed men of these middle eastern societies who c were idol worshipers then I think we should judge him by the standards he judged and killed their idols and traditions by.

Part of that is to not justify and look at the problem and white washing it. The hajj and visit to mecca is the repeating ritual of pagans and thats what you are instructed to do every day. The verses you sent to me about Moses bowing to earth isn't saying he recommended the jews to bow to an image. He bowed in the direction he felt he needed or were he was at because he knew God is all knowing.

The failure you have with the Leviticus 26: is that you don't see that God is saying don't set up a stone and bow toward it as sacred.
To separate the bible people and prophets bowing on the ground face down is a not a mandatory decree. Islam is a mandatory decree. We know previous Babylonians like Nebuchenezzar had the whole kingdom bow to his image ; as a command . This was a pagan popular decree to cause unity in a kneeling ritual.

Lev 26; 1 Reward for Obedience

1"R39;"Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the Lord your God"
-Moses the prophet

My question to end that pagan stone in Mecca is by this question; I expect you to answer. Do you consider the kaaba as being sacred ? Do you consider it a stone or an image ? If you were in the middle of the kaaba and you looked all around you, would you see people heads facing you all around ? If these answers are yes then your saying to Moses it's ok to disobey idol worshipping .

Done with that.
Pro says, "In Islam, Prophet Muhammad never lied and was trustworthy, never gambled and never worshipped Pagan Gods, the Arabs knew the presence of the one true God, but ascribed daughters to him, which Con mentioned, but therewas never an Idol called 'Allah'

We simply follow the Prophets of God, again ignorance shown from Con"

What ignorance ?

I say Muhammad did fabricate a thing against Allah and that was a lie? Fabricate is a form of lying.

So I provided the verse Muhammad said he fabricated aka lied on Al Illah aka allah by his own sayings ,

"Then the Messenger of God said, "I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken." (The History of al-Tabari, Vol. 6, pages 108-111)"

He will later probably tell us a lie to sooth the beating of truth. PRO
will Probably say we'll the hadith is untrustworthy. That's the Tricks muslims Use. In some other class they are teaching something from Tabari or Sahih Bukhari ,which tells off on the false prophet.

People that lie are called liars. All humans make mistakes Muhammad did the worst of a prophet and that is to lie on his God and he suppose to be a prophet.

You said what God did Muhammad serve? We don't know specifically but he claims A llah but there is no allah in the prophets and the arabs say allah as if that's a god. They will tell you we say God by Allah but it's really Illah as if allah was a real historically named God.

The God of the Bible or Torah he never served he just called this Jewish/christian God Allah meaning Al Illah aka allah. He didn't know the christian God until Khadijah mentioned our faith to his pagan mind.
Even then , by her is the reason muhammd started calling the demonic angel in the cave Gabriel as they all him jibreel. Not that it was Jehovah who was making him his messenger or not that it was Gabriel but it was demonic and misunderstanding of what this angel was.

So to answer you whom Muhammad served it was unknown but he left his Father's religion and mixed it with the Christian God.

"Let me clarify something, the Pagans used to worship one God which is Allah, but then drifted from the straight path"

Well see no thats not true and it is true. The time before muhammad there was always pagan worshippers in the land. They were either Christians or Jews and we know what happened to them when they heard this man's teachings against the son of God. Many were killed, pagans ans monotheistic believers.

"So we know that they still have the old rituals but have corrupted them, and made pagan gods:"

First of all Abraham never built any stone monument in mecca. There was no need to go that way in the desert. His traveling way led back to Israel. The only ones journeying there would be Hagar and Ishmael.
Who were sent off from Isaac whom Ishmael laughed at when he was born.

"So Easter is the day Jesus rose from the grave."

It is all Pagan, X-mas, Easter,etc:
"The Sumerian goddess Inanna, or Ishtar, was hung naked on a stake, and was subsequently resurrected and ascended from the underworld. One of the oldest resurrection myths is Egyptian Horus. Born on 25 December, Horus and his damaged eye became symbols of life and rebirth. Mithras was born on what we now call Christmas day, and his followers celebrated the spring equinox. ."

The war is simple with the devil and jesus. The warfare the angels fight is a prevention of the messiahs lineage . If I was an enemy of your son who is to come . What should I do to stop your son from coming to earth? Create ways to stop his birth from happening. If you told the world he would set all men and women free and by knowing and believing your son you will receive life and riches with with the king. What would I do as your enemy to stop make the story of your som vein so many will look at your kid as just another kid? I wil tell you how I would stop his birth and make vein to the world hi message so they would look at him as just another kid.

So also is the warfare of Satan against the son of God. The ways Satan has left his footprints in trying to stop God's Son is to reveal Revelation and demonic inspiration to make stories so similar to the coming Son of God. So that when he comes many will say haaa This story we have never saw but we have heard of it and it previously was a myth. HAAAA YOU COPY THE PAGANS THEY WILL SAY. Satan as a watcher of all prophets he knows the prophets Nd word of God on earth. So when he saw the first prophecy with woman he heard, " and with you in from the seed of woman shall crush your head and he shall bruise your feet."

What did Satan pick up from there historically?
He picked up that from a woman birth will he be defeated. So he planned beforehand religions and myths against the messiah just as I told you in the parable of your son to come.

So when you tell me of this. It's nothing to me Satan is working and was working before Jesus came.

I love the way you call it the Bible verse about the woman and Dragons because and that story is exactly what God says about Satan trying to plan beforehand to take out Son of God. (Jesus) As the bible says (HE) is the male child and In Genesis he is the Seed of woman aka Mary and that Seed and malechild is the Messiah the one whom satsn prepared many myths for to make vein the prophecy of God.
I have refuted your atheistic try against Messiah which your own faith says that he jesus is Messiah. Yet you brought his story to be like a myth as if the quran doesn't contain the virgin birth lol.
This attempt to degrade Messiah's life is a prime example of what Jesus says these people praise me with their lips their hearts are distance from me."

Every single little attempt of your misunderstanding I have taken care of in my rebuttals only to help you understand the powerr of my God and the truth. That this isn't pagans just because Messiah's stories looks similar to pagans. The best part to know that all this pagan similarity is demonic is because if yoy look if anyone fulfilled the pagan myths . You will find no man is known to be the one to raise from the dead and be seen by over 5,000+ while Alive made things happen that no Pharoah or Caesar or Zeus could do.

Like I said paganism another tactic of the pre planning Satan to stop what is to come.

So also is Muhammad's job. The shirk law was just created by Satan's messenger to further the antichrist movement on earth until God makes his decision to send the Son. Then when Jesus comes Satan will have an army against the Son of God preplanned as ordered by muhammad. Just as he preplanned to stop Jesus glory by mocking his coming with myths before.

Pro says
"I tried to find the source for this, unfortunatly Pro is using Answering Islam www.answering-islam.org/authors/cornelius/sun_in_muddy_pool.html
"
Amen I have been getting help from my friend named David wood and Sam Shamoun and etc. If it wasn't for them no one would be interested in debunking Islam.

They have a show on 3abn and the show is called Jesus or Muhammad. And you guys who are Muslim watch Dr Zakir Naik video to come up with doubtful exclamation .
.

Also
Valtin says to us this verse to make it ok for Muhammad to lie.

Satanic verses:

I told you it is unreliable, and clearly not true because what is said in the Qur'an:
"Never did We send an apostle or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but God will CANCEL anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and God will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for God is full of Knowledge and Wisdom: That He may make the suggestions thrown in by Satan, but a trial for those in whose hearts is a disease and who are hardened of heart: verily the wrong-doers are in a schism far (from the Truth)"
22:52-55"

W hat does canceling out what Satan has cast in mean to me if he did not cancel out Mohammad from talking about the other gods and bragging on the other gods ?
Don't say you got cancelled something if Muhammad already said it.

Pro has made a a statement that I don't know give at the end of 1st I will address the beginning..

" "the only time period jesus allowed others to think he was a prophet was when he was to keep his identity hidden."
Again he showed the same response about hidden identity from the previous debate, that Jesus had a hidden name!!

"Please do not lie on Jesus because you do not know him personally, and therefore do not know his secrets he has some"

I do know Jesus he said I would and he lives within me. Also you said I don't know his secrets ???? Lol sorry that's so cute. One day you will ask ans he will answer you and one day you will ask him to come into your life to show you he is still alive and in his name you will be saved only. Even your book says he is alive and is not touched by Satan. So one day you will take a clean step ans lose your debate against whom you don't know or believe. Just as Paul opposed the Son came to him as Lord.

You said I don't know the secrets of Jesus.
I do know the christs secrets because it's in his word that is the gospel of Jesus. And also Jesus being the son of God ,and being God being is a secret that evidently you don't know.
Jesus says I have made these things known to you what was secret.

John 14;
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever" 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, [[the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.]] 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and (I am in you.) 21 (Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me.) The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and (show myself to them.)

Now my favorite correction to the muslims on my facebook debate page is the correction of the judgment day before Jesus.

`75;You said this awesomely incorrect that my joy is over spilling to explain it to you.
You quoted me

`79;" away with me you who doeth iniquity for I never knew you "

That is what Jesus will tell you!! quote the full verse!!

Matthew 7:22-23 ""Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'"

Muslims never cast out demons in Jesus's name or perform miracles in Jesus name and do not prophecise in Jesus's name, that is what the Christians do!! and Jesus will tell you in the day of Judgement:

"23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Jesus will tell you he NEVER KNEW YOU!

`75; my response
To Pro is very easy. Jesus casted out demons himself and his disciples did also too. Yet does jesus say to himself I will deny my disciples and myself?

That doesn't make since like saying the jews killed jesus because all Jews didn't kill Jesus . So when Jesus said i will deny you he was speaking of the ones who misuse the christian life and leaves hik for Islam or those who simply didn't obey christs commands. Nobody fires their best employees. So also Jesus too.

10The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"

11He replied, "Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:

"Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

"R39;"You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15For this people"s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them."a
..
....
16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.

17For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
18"Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21But since they have no root, they last only a short time...

Now demons fear Christians csuse the name of Jesus christ and some of rhe fslse christians use his name and it is power but at at the end they will convert to another belief like judas.

So just as judas was a disciple of Jesus he also betrayed and gave up jesus for money .. The same people like judas and those who deny what jesus says for a lie like islam they will be told I don't know you ex christian you loved muhammad and a foreign God than my Father and myself. You say God has no Son well Idk know you. You say Buddha is God's way to heaven ? I don't know you then.
Simple as that.

So I'm very very sorry viewers that Pro is so off subject to rebuttal things that have nothing to do with the false prophet.

My previous rebuttals said it all. Please think deeper than spelling errors if you can make out what is said. If not ask me and Pro in comments to understand what we said. I'm on my Samsung typing with no editing Microsoft Word or etc.

Muhammad was killed the precise way of the Qurans angels said. Then also the ways the God of the bible says a false prophet would if he was speaking of other gods.

Failing to be the prophet like moses as the muslims stole from the book they say is corrupted (bible). Lastly I have said everything I wanted about how he was not a true prophet. Based on the Quran hadiths and also the Bible. Lastly to focus on why muhammad wasnt the prophet of I will address this last false prophecy of Muhammad they day is in our bible.

Muslims take this verse and run with it to try to prove their book right about muhammd being in our book. This gives them a reason to say unbeliever, in Surah 7 verse 157.

Notice that islam will brag on him not being a lettered prophet; meaning illiterate.
Because in this verse in the bible it says someone can't read.
Isaiah 29: 11For you this whole vision is nothing but words sealed in a scroll. And if you give the scroll to someone who can read, and say, "Read this, please," they will answer, "I can"t; it is sealed." 12Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say, "Read this, please," they will answer, "I don"t know how to read."

1. Note that the one who can't read in this is I saiah 29 prophecy is not one person. It is more than one person.

In fact the people in Isaiah asking to know the words on the scroll is not an angel as the Qur'an reveals the angel asks muhammad to read.

These (people) not angel ; are asking the illiterate to help with understanding the prophecies against them who hate Israel. So by knowing the bible they may see what is coming against them.

This is by no means talking about a coming prophet who is illiterate. Or an angel asking him to read.

The chapter starts as God defends Israel against those who hate them in the last hour and day.
Guess what, Islam hates Israel. So it seems to me this isn't an angel in verse 11 who wants to steal the words from the bible but it is a group of Islamics and blind enemies of God. The ones looking In our book looks to understand but God has blinded them.
So they say help us understand Christians what God plans against us who hate Israel.

So it's not good to put muhammad as a blind and illiterate guide to the word of God.
For that person in this prophecy knows nothing.

2. The false prophet prepared his life acting as if he was illiterate and can't right or read to fill I'll this prophecy.

Proof muhammad was literate basically disproves muhammad as the unfettered prophet as he stressed in the Qur'an
See
Bukhari 1:3:114

Was Muhammad illiterate or literate based on many hadiths ?"

The answer you will see is no."
1:3:114
Ibn 'Abbas said, "When the ailment of the Prophet became worse, he said, 'Bring for me (writing) paper and (I will write for you)a statement after which you will not go astray.' But 'Umar said, 'The Prophet is seriously ill, and we have got Allah's Book with us and that is sufficient for us.' But the companions of the Prophet differed about this and there was a hue and cry. On that the Prophet said to them, 'Go away (and leave me alone). It is not right that you should quarrel in front of me.""

See notice his followers getting mad at him. Muhammad was about to spill the beans.what i mean is that he was literate and they were crying that he should not write and show he is literate less they all be ashamed of following a liar. So they cried .

Another verse to kill the thought of Muhammad being illiterate is this

Book 19, Number 2993:

Narrated Yazid ibn Abdullah:

We were at Mirbad. A man with dishevelled hair and holding a piece of red skin in his hand came.

We said: You appear to be a bedouin. He said: Yes. We said: Give us this piece of skin in your hand. He then gave it to us and we read it. It contained the text: "From Muhammad, Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), to Banu Zuhayr ibn Uqaysh. If you bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah, offer prayer, pay zakat, pay the fifth from the booty, and the portion of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and his special portion (safi), you will be under by the protection of Allah and His Apostle."

We then asked: Who wrote this document for you? He replied: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him

So that is further reasons Muhammad couldn't be a prophet.

I have provided a lot and thank you for this debate to open the peoples eyes.
Debate Round No. 4
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Nasr1 2 years ago
Nasr1
Lets see the passage
that Christian used as argument quoting Muhammad (pbuh) as false prophet as he couldnt differentiate between words of God which is truth and false.

Quote
The Messenger of God was eager for the welfare of his people and wished to effect a reconciliation with them in whatever way he could... Then God revealed:... "Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?" when Satan cast on his tongue the two phrases "These are high-flying cranes; verily their intercession is to be desired." ...Then Gabriel came to the Messenger of God and said, "Muhammad, what have you done? You have recited to the people that which I did not bring to you from God, and you have said that which was not said to you." ... Then the Messenger of God said, "I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken." (The History of al-Tabari, Vol. 6, pages 108-111)

The Holy Spirit@Gabriel a.s function to guide prophets and that is what The Spirit did in situation above.. No issue at all as The Spirit guards over the covenant from God for mankind, the seal of all covenants from God.
Posted by Valtin 3 years ago
Valtin
Your argument is false, also you reject the scholars who made the Biblical dictionary, hah please.
Posted by YoungZealous 3 years ago
YoungZealous
My grammar and spelling would be what I would count off but as far as arguments it would have been obviously my case that mohammed was false.

Say if there was a truck coming to hit you and the person trying to warn you did not speak very well but they shouted . The truck is about to hit you and now your choice is between did that guy speak very well in order for you to execute and jump out of the way. Or forget if he spoke very well, his message will help me not get hit by the truck. You're letting many people get hit by the truck by depending on the up on spelling and grammar because when you depend solemnly on the outer layer you condone people like Hitler . Such as the Prophet Muhammad you are causing them to get hit by a truck. God uses every type of person to tell the truth regardless if they are good at mathematics. My debate reminds me of people that aren't good at speech such as the real prophet Moses was not a good speaker, such as me. @ Valtin
Posted by YoungZealous 3 years ago
YoungZealous
The problem is you looked for a small debate but I brought a giant vase of truth not just something or one thing to debate about muhammad. I even showed the man what the requirements the real God said form the bible what a prophet requires. MUHAMMD SPOKE IN OT HER gods names and said SATAN SPOKE IN HIM TO SAY THE IDOL ARE OK TO MAKE INTERCESSION FOR THE MUSLIMS. Deutoronomy showed that prophet would be put to death csuse he isn't a prophet. Yet i gave the hadiths. I made it clear with clear signs to you and Valtin in this unfair page of debates of misunderstanding but judgment day my God will expose your ignorance to what I said . Matthew 10: 14If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

16"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves.
Posted by Mhykiel 3 years ago
Mhykiel
@YoungZealous Valtin didn't message me or bring my attention to this debate. I've been following it since the challenge. You make the premise that Muhammed's death was foretold in the fashion it was foretold in. Valtin then rebutted the manner in which it happened and the validity of your source. You didn't defend the manner. poison water is different than poison meat.

I'm not a muslim faking theism. I think it is clear by my debates that I am anti-atheist. My profile even states that I am Deist. Furthermore I'm a practicing christian. I don't see a conflict in my intellectual self identification and my practices in a social, family context. I may be a creature of grey shades but I know my soul is many colors.

I voted on the debate, despite my position being aligned with yours, because I can be honest in my assessments. Make stronger arguments. And for the sake of Jesus I hope you learn to do so.
Posted by YoungZealous 3 years ago
YoungZealous
Proof @Mhykiel is a muslim faking atheism. HIS VALTIN TEXTED HIM TO VOTE FO HIM.
Posted by YoungZealous 3 years ago
YoungZealous
How could you be convinced by the pro when he didn't even refute Muhammad's death thst was promised to happen of he was a false prophet? Valtin ignores all the major confrontation ans focuses on restating instead of debating. If this was facebook or some open media hoy would be done. Only thing I wouldn't get voted for would be the spelling and at least , conduct. The rest would have been mine. But since Valtin knows the only voter he will win his vote. Though I explained Muhammad's falsehood very good.
Posted by Mhykiel 3 years ago
Mhykiel
Salam, wow what a heated debate. And such an extensive one of unique oration. The only copy pasting I could discern was of citations. It was so entertaining. Both YoungZealous and Vailtin did an exhausting job.

I have some contentions with the strong editing on scriptural citations. I think it crossed the line at times. I agreed with YoungZealous on a few points, but the rebuttals by Valtin were destructive. I think Valtin made good points against interpretations presented by YoungZealous, I hold the belief that the Muslim founder was a false prophet. But I am giving my vote to Valtin. Where I think it is well deserved.
Posted by YoungZealous 3 years ago
YoungZealous
It doesn't have to have a label on it to k ow if it's bad lol.

People who don't study Thr history of Satan can't tell what satsn does. It is the same reason Revelation says there will be many decieved by him.
Posted by POPOO5560 3 years ago
POPOO5560
Satanic verses is not part of Islam its all facrications, what a pathetic.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Mhykiel 3 years ago
Mhykiel
ValtinYoungZealousTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: I agreed with YoungZealous on a few points, but the rebuttals by Valtin were destructive. I think Valtin made good points against interpretations presented by YoungZealous