The Instigator
Valtin
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
ksang
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Muhammad is mentioned in the Bible.

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after 1 vote the winner is...
ksang
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/17/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,501 times Debate No: 49276
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

Valtin

Pro

Hello, in this debate I will argue that Prophet Muhammad was indeed mentioned in the Bible, the BoP will be on me, but my adversary has to refute my argument.

Round No.1: Acceptance
Round No.2: Argument & Refutation
Round No.3: Rebuttals
Round No.4: Rebuttal/Closing statement

I am going to use the OT and NT to prove the mentioning of Muhammad pbuh, Best of luck.
ksang

Con

Thank you Valtin, for posting this debate. I gladly accept your offer.

I accept your conditions.

For this debate I am going to use various online resources, the Bible, the Qu'ran, and any Hadiths (only sahih) if necessary.

Also, a few questions that I would like for you to answer in the first round:
Will Wikipedia be considered a legitimate source?
Will I be required to use "pbuh" after the names of any major Qu'ranic figures as a sign of good conduct?
Debate Round No. 1
Valtin

Pro

Questions
Before I start my argument I will answer some of the questions that my adversary asked:

"Will Wikipedia be considered a legitimate source?"
Sure, you can use Wikipedia, but not wikis, i.e. "WikiIslam".

"Will I be required to use "pbuh" after the names of any major Qu'ranic figures as a sign of good conduct?"
It is your choice, I really don't mind whether you do or not.



John 16:12-14
"12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you."

Understanding of how he is mentioned:[1]
If you claim it's the Holy Spirit then what did the HOLY SPIRIT tells us, nothing and it's 2000 years yet no holy spirit came, so its wrong.

Deuteronomy chapter 18:18
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.
If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.
However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):

Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.
[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]

Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.

Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)

Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh). See [2]

Words in the mouth:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." [Deuteronomy 18:18]

Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).

Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
people. John chapter 1:11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."

Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).

It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."

Book of Isaiah chapter 29:12 :
"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned saying, ‘Read this, I pray thee’; and he saith, ‘I am not learned’.

"When Archangel Gabriel commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying ‘Iqra’, he replied "I am not learned".


Al-Qur'an Chapter 61:6:

"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, 'This is evident sorcery!' "

All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.

John 14:16 :
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."

John 15:26:
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."

John 16:7 :
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".

"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.

Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.

Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

John 16:12-14:
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".
The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

Song Of Songs / Song Of Solomon Chapter 5:16

Hebrew Transliteration :
"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."

Translated As :"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem."

Songs of Solomon
5:10 My beloved [is] white and ruddy, the chief among ten thousand.
Prophet Muhammad (s) was forced to migrate to Medina (Teman) from Makkah (Paran). He returned to conquer Makkah with 10,000 of saints as also mentioned in Habakkuk 3, Jude 1 and Deuteronomy 33.
5:11 His head [is as] the most fine gold, his locks [are] bushy, [and] black as a raven.
5:12 His eyes [are] as [the eyes] of doves by the rivers of waters, washed with milk, [and] fitly set.
5:13 His cheeks [are] as a bed of spices, [as] sweet flowers: his lips [like] lilies, dropping sweet-smelling myrrh.
5:14 His hands [are as] gold rings set with the beryl: his belly [is as] bright ivory overlaid [with] sapphires.
5:15 His legs [are as] pillars of marble, set upon sockets of fine gold: his countenance [is] as Lebanon, excellent as the cedars.



Volume 4, Book 56, Number 747:
Narrated Rabia bin Abi Abdur-Rahman:
I heard Anas bin Malik describing the Prophet saying, "He was of medium height amongst the people, neither tall nor short; he had a rosy color, neither absolutely white nor deep brown; his hair was neither completely curly nor quite lank. Divine Inspiration was revealed to him when he was forty years old. He stayed ten years in Mecca receiving the Divine Inspiration, and stayed in Medina for ten more years. When he expired, he had scarcely twenty white hairs in his head and beard." Rabi'a said, "I saw some of his hairs and it was red. When I asked about that, I was told that it turned red because of scent. "

The description in the Songs of Solomon suits Prophet Muhammad (s) perfectly.
5:16 His mouth [is] most sweet: yes, he [is] Muhammad. This [is] my beloved, and this [is] my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.

Lets read this verse in the original language,
"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."
You can also see and listen to the Song of Songs in its original form, in Hebrew where Muhammad is mentioned by name, "im" is Plural of Respect in Hebrew just as "Eloh-im".[3]
It is read as : "Mahammad".

Hebrew: חִכּוֹ, מַמְתַקִּים, וְכֻלּוֹ, מַחֲמַדִּים; זֶה דוֹדִי וְזֶה רֵעִי, בְּנוֹת יְרוּשָׁלִָם.

English: His mouth is most sweet; yea, he is ALTOGETHER LOVELY. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.

מחמד is translated as "Muhammad".(You can translate it yourself!)[4]

Haggai 2:7
I will shake all nations, and the Muhammad of all nations will come, and I will fill this house with glory,' says the LORD Almighty.
This prophecy in Haggai not just says that Prophet Muhammad (s) is to come but also confirms that Prophet Muhammad (s) has been prophesied in various scriptures as he will be the desire of all nations.
Translators have used incorrect words to translate the word Muhammad.
Ben Yehuda's Hebrew-English Dictionary defines Muhammad as praised one.

This is the correct word to use but it better that the translations use the original word “Muhammad”.


[1] Ahmed deedat explains John 16:12-16
[2] https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net...
[3]http://www.mechon-mamre.org...
[4]http://www.freetranslation.com...
ksang

Con

Thank you Valtin for your opening arguments.

I will first begin by presenting Deuteronomy 18:18, the verse that describes Moses saying a Prophet like him will be raised among the brethren of the Israelites. I will list similarities between Jesus and Moses. I hope this would convince you that Jesus is truly the Prophet like Moses, not Muhammad.

Jesus and Moses were Jews
Moses and Jesus were born under a cruel leader (Pharaoh for Moses, Herod for Jesus)
Moses and Jesus hid in Egypt as children
The leader of the land Moses and Jesus were living in tried to kill all the babies when they were born.
Moses and Jesus both died on hills
Moses and Jesus communicated directly with God.
Moses and Jesus were hated by the ruling party (Pharaoh for Moses, the Pharisees for Jesus)
Moses and Jesus chose 12 leaders to follow. (12 Tribes for Moses, 12 Apostles for Jesus)
Moses sent 12 spies to Canaan to bring people to the Promised Land while Jesus sent 12 people to bring Disciples to the Promised Land (Heaven)
Moses and Jesus had siblings who misunderstood them
Moses and Jesus both showed compassion to a women getting water at a well
Moses led his followers out of slavery from Egypt while Jesus led his followers out of slavery from sin
and many more.

I will now refute the verses which you have presented to me as prophecies for the Prophet Muhammad.

John 16:12 - 14
This verse, as you acknowledge, predicts the coming of the Holy Spirit. Your argument however, is based on the faulty assumption that the Holy Spirit cannot speak and never came. According to Acts 13:2 (NASB95) "While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." Regarding your claim that the Holy Spirit never came, in Acts 2:4, it states "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them."

Deuteronomy 18:18
I will first address some of the similarities between Muhammad and Moses that you offer.
You say that both had a father and a mother. This is my question to Con: doesn't everybody else? Any false prophet can also make the claim that they were like Moses because they both had a biological father and mother. It is not something unique to Muhammad that would be of any significance. Your other arguments are also very trivial. There are countless numbers of people who have been married and had children and probably even more who have died natural deaths. Take for example Solomon, who is considered a prophet of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. He was born to a father and mother, was married and had children, and died a natural death. According to your arguments, all of these traits would qualify Solomon as the prophet described as Moses. But obviously, you believe it is simply not the case. Obviously the first three traits of Muhammad are simply too general for anyone to claim that he is the Prophet like Moses.
Your next argument is about the term "brethren" being a reference to the Ishmaelites. A quick look at each time the term "brethren" is used in the Book of Deuteronomy will falsify such an argument. Let us list each time "brethren" is used in the OT and provide it's meaning.
The Levites, the priestly tribe, were brethren (Deuteronomy 18:2 and 10:9)
The king of Israel is to come from the brothers (Deut 17:15)
The king of Israel is not to raise himself over his brothers (Deut 17:20)
Brother Israelites as different from aliens (Deut 1:16)
Brothers, the sons of Israel (Deut 3:18)
Brothers Israelites as distinct from foreigners (Deut 15:2-3)
Brother Israelites (Deut 15:7)
Brothers, sons of Esau (Deut 2:4 & 8)
Brothers of Edom (Numbers 20:14)
As you can see, any time the term "brethren" was not used to refer to an Israelite, the nation of such "brethren" was specified. From this stylistic clue, we can deduce that if the nation of these "brethren" was not mentioned, the "brethren" would be Israelite, the nation which Jesus belonged to.

Going back to the example of Solomon, he was also a king who could have inflicted capital punishment. Is he the Prophet like Moses?

Jesus also brought a new law to the people:
John 13:34 - ""A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another..."

Isaiah 29:12
If we look at the context of the verse, we will realize that this is not a prophetic reference to Muhammad, but instead a description of a larger event, the punishment of Israel by God for not being obedient to the Law. Isaiah 29 opens up with a prophecy of the woe of David's city:
29 Woe to you, Ariel, Ariel,
the city where David settled!
Add year to year
and let your cycle of festivals go on.
2 Yet I will besiege Ariel;
she will mourn and lament,
she will be to me like an altar hearth.[a]
3 I will encamp against you on all sides;
I will encircle you with towers
and set up my siege works against you.
4 Brought low, you will speak from the ground;
your speech will mumble out of the dust.
Your voice will come ghostlike from the earth;
out of the dust your speech will whisper.
5 But your many enemies will become like fine dust,
the ruthless hordes like blown chaff.
Suddenly, in an instant,
6 the Lord Almighty will come
with thunder and earthquake and great noise,
with windstorm and tempest and flames of a devouring fire.
7 Then the hordes of all the nations that fight against Ariel,
that attack her and her fortress and besiege her,
will be as it is with a dream,
with a vision in the night"
8 as when a hungry person dreams of eating,
but awakens hungry still;
as when a thirsty person dreams of drinking,
but awakens faint and thirsty still.
So will it be with the hordes of all the nations
that fight against Mount Zion.
9 Be stunned and amazed,
blind yourselves and be sightless;
be drunk, but not from wine,
stagger, but not from beer.
10 The Lord has brought over you a deep sleep:
He has sealed your eyes (the prophets);
he has covered your heads (the seers).
11 For you this whole vision is nothing but words sealed in a scroll. And if you give the scroll to someone who can read, and say, "Read this, please," they will answer, "I can"t; it is sealed." 12 Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say, "Read this, please," they will answer, "I don"t know how to read."
As you can see, Isaiah 29:12 is simply saying that the Jewish people were ignorant of the Scripture and did not care to understand it. It does not prophecy the coming of a prophet.

Al-Qu'ran Chapter 61:6
To try and claim that the texts of John used by English translators were corrupted in that they mixed up the term "paracletos" and "paraclytos" would require a significant proof from you considering that over 5,600 Greek manuscripts all contain the former term and not the latter. I challenge you to produce a document that contains the latter.
Now regarding your claim that Jesus had to depart for the Holy Spirit to come, let's look at what the text says:
John 16:7 - "But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to YOU; but if I go, I will send him to YOU." (emphasis mine).
In the context of John 16, Jesus was talking to the APOSTLES. Because Jesus was talking to the Apostles, he meant that once he left, the Holy Spirit would come upon THEM. Before the death of Jesus, his Apostles were weak men who doubted many things Jesus said. After the death of Christ and his Resurrection, the Apostles suddenly became brave men, willing to die for the cause of the Gospel. This is what Jesus meant when he said the Holy Spirit would come upon the Apostles. The Holy Spirit had always existed, but it had not yet come into the lives of the Apostles. Now let's assume that every English translator got this verse wrong and Jesus was actually referring to Muhammad. If the "paracletos" was actually Muhammad, then why did Muhammad come 600 years later? It says in the verse that this "paracletos" would come to "you", the Apostles, after Jesus's death, not hundreds of years later to the Arabs.

Song of Songs 5:16
I would first of like to say that the Song of Songs 5:16 is not a prophecy, but a description of the man a woman loves. Second of all, a more accurate, less biased romanization the Hebrew for "lovely" would be "machamadim." It is inaccurate to say that the romanization of the word is "muhammadim." Also, "machamadim" in this case is a plural ADJECTIVE. It is not a noun referring to a person. You also claim "machamadim" can be directly translated as "Muhammad." "Machamadim" means "lovely" while "Muhammad" means "praised." You cannot say that they mean the same thing. Also, the Qu'ran states that prophecies of Muhammad would be found in the Torah and the Gospel.
Al-Qu'ran 7:157 - "Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful."
Song of Songs is neither a part of the Torah or the Gospel; it is a part of the Ketuvim (or "Writings") portion of the Tanakh, not the Torah.

Haggai 2:7
I would like to correct Con's presentation of the verse in questions
Haggai 2:7 - "I will shake all nations, and what is desired by all nations will come, and I will fill this house with glory,' says the LORD Almighty."
Where in this verse is "Muhammad" mentioned? The word for "desire" in this verse is "chemdah." Can you explain to me how this word can be replaced with "Muhammad?"

I believe I have refuted Con's arguments with much sufficiency.

I will cite sources in the final round. (I'm running out of space lol)
Debate Round No. 2
Valtin

Pro

I thank my adversary for his response, I will start my rebuttal.

Deuteronomy 18:18 :

My adversary brings other prophets(And mentions "False Prophet" and the brings up the similarties) into the case like Solomon but you have to notice what Moses says "put my words in his mouth" this is obviously specific and we cannot address it to certain Prophets like Solomon or "False Prophets".

If I were to teach you a language like Arabic about which you have no knowledge, and if I asked you to read or repeat after me what I utter i.e.:

"Say, "He is Allah , [who is] One,Allah , the Eternal Refuge.He neither begets nor is born,Nor is there to Him any equivalent." (Qur'an 112:1-4)( I read them in Arabic )

Would I not be putting these unheard words of a foreign tongue which you utter, into your mouth

History tells us that Muhummed was forty years of age. He was in a cave some three miles north of the City of Mecca. It was the 27th night of the Muslim month of Ramadaan. In the cave the Archangel Gabriel commands him in his mother tongue:'IQRA' which means READ! or PROCLAIM! or RECITE! Muhummed w as terrified and in his bewilderment replied that he was not NOT LEARNED! The angel commands him a second time with the same result. For the third time the angel continues.

Now Muhummed, grasps, that what was required of him was to repeat! to rehearse! And he repeats the words as they were put into his mouth:

"Recite in the name of your Lord who created -Created man from a clinging substance.Recite, and your Lord is the most Generous -Who taught by the pen -Taught man that which he knew not."
(Qur'an 96:1-5)

My adversary brings up the issue of "Brethren", If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham, then they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the BRETHREN of the children of the other. The children of Isaac are the Jews and the Children of Ishmael are the Arabs - so they are BRETHREN to one another. The Bible affirms, 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) SHALL DWELL IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.' (Genesis 16:12). 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) DIED IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.(Genesis 25:18). The children of Isaac are the brethren of the Ishmaelites. In like manner Muhummed is from among the brethren of the Israeli ties because he was a descendant of Ishamel the son of Abraham. This exactly as the prophecy has it- 'FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN'.(Deut.18:18). There the prophecy distinctly mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must arise NOT from the 'children of Israel' or from 'among themselves', but from among their brethren. MUHUMMED THEREFORE WAS FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN!

John 16:12-16(Muhammad in the Gospel of John also):

Just a quick note, the Arabic word "Muhammad" is an expression which means "The honorable one" or "The glorified one" or "The admirable". Prophet Muhammad was the first in the Middle East to be named "Muhammad". Below, you will see how Jesus in today's Gospel of John had called this human Prophet which he predicted his comming "The honorable one".
Jesus in the Greek Bible used the Greek word "Periklytos" which means the admirable or glorified one. He called that predicted human prophet "Periklytos". This word corresponds exactly to the Arabic word "Muhammad" which also means the "admired one" or "glorified one." In other words, "Periklytos" is "Muhammad" in Greek.

In the Bible we can find the following four passages wherein Jesus (peace be upon him) predicts a great event:
John 16:14 "16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—"
John 15:26 "26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me."
John 14:26 "26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
John 16:7-14 "
7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. 12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you."

The Human Prophet A "Spirit" in the New Testament is a human Prophet. Therefore, Jesus had predicted the comming of a human Prophet (spirit) after him and not the Holy Spirit. Jesus would not have used the word "he" for the Holy Spirit. He would have used "it" instead in John 14:26 above.


"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world," (1 John 4:1-3)
(also see 1 John 4:6), or an inspired human, for example read 1 Corinthians 2:10, 2 Thessalonians 2:2, ...etc.

There had been many cases of deliberate modification of the Biblical text by members of the Christian clergy themselves, as well as deliberate large scale projects to "correct" the Bible, and the writings of "the early fathers," (such as the deliberate insertion of the verse of 1 John 5:7 which is now universally discarded) It is, therefore, possible that either:

1) The word "Holy" could have been dropped by a careless copyist., or
2) Someone could have inserted the word "Holy" to convey his personal understanding of the text.

1) Christian scholars see evidence of tampering, especailly with the word "Spirit":
In the famous "Anchor Bible" we find the following quote: "The word parakletos is peculiar in the NT to the Johnannine literature. In John ii Jesus is a parakletos (not a title), serving as a heavenly intercessor with the Father ... Christian tradition has identified this figure (Paraclete) as the Holy Spirit, but scholars like Spitta, Delafosse, Windisch, Sasse, Bultmann, and Betz have doubted whether this identification is true to the original picture and have suggested that the Paraclete was once an independent salvific figure, later confused with the Holy Spirit." (The Anchor Bible, Doubleday & Company, Inc, Garden City, N.Y. 1970, Volume 29A, p. 1135)

2) Does the Holy Spirit "speak" or "inspire":
Important Note: The Greek word translated as "hear" in the Biblical verses ("whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak") is the Greek word "akouo" {ak-oo'-o} meaning to perceive sounds. It has, for instance, given us the word "acoustics," the science of sounds. Similarly the verb "to speak" is the Greek verb "laleo" {lal-eh'-o} which has the general meaning "to emit sounds" and the specific meaning "to speak." This verb occurs very frequently in the Greek text of the Gospels. It designates a solemn declaration by Jesus (peace be upon him) during his preachings (For example Matthew 9:18). Obviously these verbs require hearing and speech organs in order to facilitate them. There is a distinct difference between someone "inspiring" something and him "speaking" something. So the Paraclete will "hear" and "speak," not "inspire."
Muhammad (pbuh), as seen above, did indeed fulfill this prophesy. Whatsoever he "HEARD" from Gabriel (The Qur'an), the same did he physically "SPEAK" to his followers.
"(God swears) By the star when it falls!: Your comrade (Muhammad) errs not, nor is he deceived; Nor does he speak of (his own) desire. It is naught save a revelation that is revealed (unto him)." (The noble Qur'an, Al-Najm(53):1-4)

3) The Holy Ghost was already with them:
In the above verses we read "if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." The comforter can not be the Holy Ghost because the Holy Ghost (according to the Bible) was "with" them already (and even quite active) long before the coming of Jesus (peace be upon him) himself and then throughout his ministry. Read for example.
Genesis 1:21 Samuel 10:101 Samuel 11:6 Isaiah 63:11

Songs of Solomon 5:16:
First, In the 5th chapter of the Shir haShirim ( שיר השירים ), which is one of the five megilot or Sacred Scrolls that are part of the Hebrew Bible or for short the "Song of Solomon" (also called "Song of Songs"). That chapter is giving a prophecy about an individual to come, a mystery man, I never quoted Qur'an 7:157 in my SOS argument, and the debate is about "Muhammad is mentioned in the Bible" I have not mentioned Torah nor the Gospel, but I have said "Bible".

I showed a hadith which matches the verses of Chapter 5 in my previous argument which describes Muhammad perfectly.

Con's translation error:
The word "machmad" means "the praised one" or "the one worthy of praise." and the word in the 16th verse used was "Muhammadim" which was not an Adjective. the plural it’s pronounced “Mahamadd-im”. The ending letters 'im' is a plural of respect, majesty and grandeur for God’s prophet, just as in the word Eloh-im.

Con's objection:
"but a description of the man a woman loves"
but verse 10 of the fifth chapter says 5:10 My beloved [is] white and ruddy, the chief among ten thousand.
Prophet Muhammad was forced to migrate to Medina from Makkah. He returned to conquer Makkah with 10,000 of saints.
This is not a love story but the discription fits perfectly for Muhammad as I stated in my previous argument.

Isaiah 29:12(More detailed rebuttal next round):
Yes it mentions the "Punishment" but then Bible speaks in Isaiah 29:12 after the mentioning of the punishment, and transitions into another subject and talks about Muhammad you can see verses 13-24.
I do not have much space left, but I will God willing do a more detailed rebuttal on Isaiah 29.
ksang

Con

Thank you Pro for your prompt response. My rebuttal will be focused on refuting claims made by Pro.

Deuteronomy 18:18
I believe I have already provided a sufficient list that shows many of the similarities between Jesus and Moses. In Round 2, I took some of the claims of similarity between Muhammad and Moses that Pro raised and proved that they were not at all significant and in fact almost anybody could claim such similarities, i.e. Solomon. Pro brings up the verse in the Qu'ran that claims God put words into Muhammad's mouth. He assumes that this claim is unique to Muhammad and thus is sufficient evidence that Muhammad is the Prophet like Moses. However, Jesus can assert the exact same claim.
John 12:49 - "For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken."
Let's look at Deuteronomy 18:18
"I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him."
Jesus claims that he is DIRECTLY commanded by God to speak. Muhammad is commanded by the Angel Gabriel, not directly by God.
Now let's look at the issue of brethren. If we look at Deuteronomy 18 as a whole, we will realize that this chapter is addressed to the Levites, a single tribe of Israel. In Deut. 18:2 we see the term "brethren" in use.
"They [Levites] shall have no inheritance among their brethren."
In this context, we realize that the term brethren actually refers to the other tribes of Israel. Why on earth would the Levites be concerned about inheritance from the Ishmaelites? Now seeing that the term brethren is used to refer to Israelites in Deut. 18:2, we can logically assume that in Deut 18:18, the exact same chapter, also uses the term brethren as a reference to fellow Israelites. If not, wouldn't we expect some kind of indication that the term brethren is not meant to refer to Israel? All uses of the term brethren in the Book of Deuteronomy reference fellow Israelites, not any other nation. I challenge you to produce a verse in Deuteronomy that does. Also I would like to bring up the fact that several translations of the Bible use the term "fellow Israelites" (or something similar) instead of brethren in Deut. 18:18.

New International Version - "I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him."

GOD'S WORD Translation - "So I will send them a prophet, an Israelite like you. I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him."

Lexham English Bible - "I will raise up a prophet for them from among their countrymen like you, and I will place my words into his mouth, and he shall speak to them everything that I command him."

New American Standard Bible - "I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen like you, and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him."

New English Translation Bible - "I will raise up a prophet like you for them from among their fellow Israelites. I will put my words in his mouth and he will speak to them whatever I command."

(Verses courtesy of biblehub.com and biblegateway.com)

Muhammad, an Ishmaelite, does not fit these descriptions.

I would like to also mention that the descriptions of Jesus in the NT fulfill this description perfectly. He was an Israelite (a "brethren", "countryman", "fellow Israelite"), he speaks only what the father commands him (see above argument and John 12:49), called himself a prophet (Luke 13:33), and was considered by the people to be a prophet (Matthew 21:11, Luke 7:16, Luke 24:19, John 4:19, John 6:14, John 7:40, John 9:17) [3].

John 16:12 - 16
Pro continues to assert that Jesus used the term "periklytos", meaning "admirable" or "honorable", and not "paracletos", meaning "advocate" or "comforter", despite the fact that not a single ancient manuscript has John use the term "periklytos" in this case. Pro has not been able to produce a single manuscript of the Gospel of John that agrees with his claim. He still assumes without evidence that "periklytos" was indeed in the verse and therefore Jesus prophesied the coming of Muhammad.

Pro asserts that the because the Holy Spirit is referred to as a "he", and not an "it", Jesus actually was predicting a human prophet. As to why the Holy Spirit cannot be referred to in the masculine gender is not explained by Pro. God is referred to in the masculine gender and according to Christian theology, the Holy Spirit is one of the three persons of God. If this is the case, there should be no problem with referring to the Holy Spirit as a "he."

Pro makes the claim that the term "spirits" used in 1 John 4:1 means "inspired human." The Greek for the word "spirit" (`0;_7;^9;P59;_6;^5;`4;^5;) used in 1 John 4:1 [1], is never used as a term meaning "inspired human" anywhere in the NT. Pro eisegesis of the text is simply erroneous.

Pro claims that there are MANY cases of modification of the Biblical text by members of the clergy, however, the only case he cites is the example of 1 John 5:7 (see the "Johannine Comma") which even he admits has been discarded. (A through research of the Johannine Comma will show that although it was not originally in the text, it simply affirmed to the doctrine of the Trinity, which was already established in previous books.) He has yet to provide evidence that there has been a major attempt to alter any MAJOR doctrines of the Bible. There is evidence that the Bible has been well preserved, as seen in the Dead Sea Scrolls, which is hundreds of years older than other ancient documents yet shockingly similar [2].

Pro now quotes the commentary of the Gospel of John from the Anchor Bible, written by Father Raymond E. Brown. "The word parakletos is peculiar in the NT to the Johnannine literature. In John ii Jesus is a parakletos (not a title), serving as a heavenly intercessor with the Father ... Christian tradition has identified this figure (Paraclete) as the Holy Spirit, but scholars like Spitta, Delafosse, Windisch, Sasse, Bultmann, and Betz have doubted whether this identification is true to the original picture and have suggested that the Paraclete was once an independent salvific figure, later confused with the Holy Spirit." Let it be known that Brown was simply stating the scholarly opinion of SOME biblical scholars. Now if we look further into the document, we will notice that on page 1139, after an analysis of the argument presented by the above scholars, Brown states "It is our contention that John presents the Paraclete as the Holy Spirit in a special role, namely, as the personal presence of Jesus in the Christian while Jesus is with the Father."[3][4] Obviously, using the Anchor Bible to support your claim that the Paraclete was Muhammad is now out of question.

Pro claims that the Holy Spirit is unable to speak. However the Acts of the Apostles records the Holy Spirit speaking twice (Acts 8:29, Acts 13:2.) Pro claims that in order to speak or hear, the Holy Spirit must have speech and hearing organs. This is a question I ask Pro, do angels in Islam have vocal and hearing organs? Also, according to the Qu'ran, God doesn't have a body and there is nothing like him (Al-Qu'ran 42:11). If He is not like anything in creation, logically assume that according to Islam, God has no speech or hearing organs, because those are characteristics of creation. However, in Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 9, Book 93 it states "the Almighty (Allah) will say, "Now remains My Intercession."" Considering that the texts that you believe in indicate that speech and hearing organs are not required to hear and speak for non-earthly beings, I see no reason why you should have a problem with the suggestion that the Holy Spirit could see and hear without speech or hearing organs.

Pro still fails to understand my refutation of his "the Holy Spirit was already with them" argument that I presented in Round 2.
"...if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."
Again, Jesus was talking to his disciples and was telling them that in order for the DISCIPLES to be filled with the Holy Spirit, he would have to depart. No doubt the Holy Spirit had always existed, but He had not yet come into the lives of the disciples as evidenced by their rampant disbelief and denial of Christ prior to his death.

Song of Songs 5:16
I admit, I indeed made a mistake in rendering the word "machmad" as an adjective. I apologize for the error. However, Pro has made a serious translation error in claiming that the term "machmad" (מַחְמַד) translates to "the praised one." It can be translated as "desire", "desirable thing", "pleasant thing", "lovely thing", "precious thing", etc. but it cannot be "praised thing." [5][6][7]
Also, in the prestigious book Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar it states "The use of the plural as a form of respectful address is quite foreign to Hebrew." (Gesenius, 1898, p. 418) [8]
Pro claims Song of Songs is not a romantic dialogue between a man and a woman. I challenge him to produce a scholarly description of the Book that agrees with his claim.

"The Song of Songs (or Canticle of Canticles) is an exquisite collection of love lyrics, arranged to tell a dramatic tale of mutual desire and courtship." [9]

I will refute Pros rebuttal for Isaiah 29:12 when he gives me the more detailed version of it.

[1] http://biblehub.com...
[2] http://www.gotquestions.org...
[3] http://halfhermit.blogspot.com...
[4] http://www.answering-islam.org...
[5] http://www.biblestudytools.com...
[6] http://en.wiktionary.org...
[7] http://biblehub.com...
[8] http://www.apologeticspress.org...
[9] (see final round)
Debate Round No. 3
Valtin

Pro

I thank my opponent for this fine debate, In this I will God willing refute his claims.

Deuteronomy 18:18(And Brethren):
one notices from the Gospel of John that the Jews were waiting for the fulfillment of three distinct prophecies. The first was the coming of Christ. The second was the coming of Elijah. The third was the coming of the Prophet. This is obvious from the three questions that were posed to John the Baptist: “Now this was John’s testimony, when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Christ.” They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” He answered, “No.” (John 1:19-21). If we look in a Bible with cross-references, we will find in the marginal notes where the words “the Prophet” occur in John 1:21, that these words refer to the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15 and 18:18[1] We conclude from this that Jesus Christ is not the prophet mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:18.
Isaiah 42:1-13 speaks of the servant of God, His “chosen one” and “messenger” who will bring down a law. “He will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth. In his law the islands will put their hope.” (Isaiah 42:4). Verse 11, connects that awaited one with the descendants of Kedar. Who is Kedar? According to Genesis 25:13, Kedar was the second son of Ishmael, the ancestor of the Prophet Muhammad.
Also, this prophecy in Deuteronomy
mentioned that this prophet will speak the words of God in the name of God. If we looked to the Holy Quran, we will find that all its chapters, except Chapter 9, are preceded or begin with the phrase, “In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.”
Another indication (other than the prophecy in Deuteronomy) is that Isaiah ties the messenger connected with Kedar with a new song (a scripture in a new language) to be sung to the Lord (Isaiah 42:10-11). This is mentioned more clearly in the prophecy of Isaiah: “and another tongue, will he speak to this people” (Isaiah 28:11 KJV). Another related point, is that the Quran was revealed in sections over a span of twenty-three years. It is interesting to compare this with Isaiah 28 which speaks of the same thing, “For it is: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there.” (Isaiah 28:10).
This clearly eliminates Jesus out of the picture.

"Parakletos" or "Periklytos"?:
In his book "Muhammed in the Bible", Professor `Abdul-Ahad Dawud, formerly Rev. David Benjamin Keldani, Roman Catholic Bishop of Uramiah, submits a much more eloquent and scholarly presentation in defense of these assertions, far beyond the limited abilities of this humble author. For those who which to read a truly scholarly study of this matter, you may obtain a copy of that book. The following is a very brief quotation from that book:

"The 'Paraclete' does not signify either 'consoler' or 'advocate'; in truth, it is not a classical word at all. The Greek orthography of the word is Paraklytos which in ecclesiastical literature is made to mean 'one called to aid, advocate, intercessor' (Dict. Grec.-Francais, by Alexandre). One need not profess to be a Greek scholar to know that the Greek word for 'comforter or consoler' is not 'Paraclytos' but 'Paracalon'. I have no Greek version of the Septuagint with me, but I remember perfectly well that the Hebrew word for 'comforter' (mnahem) in the Lamentations of Jeremiah (I. 2, 9, 16, 17, 21, etc.) is translated into Parakaloon, from the verb Parakaloo, which means to call to, invite, exhort, console, pray, invoke. It should be noticed that there is a long alpha vowel after the consonant kappa in the 'Paracalon' which does not exist in the 'Paraclytos.' In the phrase (He who consoles us in all our afflictions) 'paracalon' and not 'Paraclytos' is used. (I exhort, or invite, thee to work). Many other examples can be cited here. There is another Greek word for comforter or consoler, i.e. "Parygorytys' from 'I console'.....The proper Greek term for 'advocate' is Sunegorus and for 'intercessor' or 'mediator' Meditea" (Muhammad in the Bible, Prof. Abdul-`Ahad Dawud, pp. 208-209)

"As to why the Holy Spirit cannot be referred to in the masculine gender is not explained by Pro."
I will now, sorry that I didn't explain it in the previous round:
Notice the use of "he" when referring to the Paraclete and not "it." If we read John 16:13, we will find no less than SEVEN occurrences of the masculine pronoun "He" and "Himself." There is not another verse in the 66 books of the Protestant Bible or the seventy three books of the Catholic Bible which contains seven masculine pronouns, or seven feminine pronouns, or even seven neuter genders. So many masculine pronouns ill befits a ghost, holy or otherwise. The word "Spirit" (Greek, pneu'ma), is of a neutral gender and is always referred to by the pronoun "it."
Mr.Ahmed Deedat says:
"When this point of seven masculine pronouns was mooted by Muslims in India in their debates with the Christian missionaries, the Urdu (Indian) version of the Bible had the pronouns presently changed to SHE, SHE, SHE! so that the Muslims could not claim that this prophecy referred to Muhammad (peace be upon him) - a man! This Christian deception I have seen in the Bible myself. This is a common trickery by the missionaries, more specially in the vernacular. The very latest ruse I have stumbled across in the Afrikaans Bible, on the very verse under discussion; they have changed the word "Trooster" (Comforter), to "Voorspraak" (Mediator), and interpolated the phrase - "die Heilige Gees" - meaning THE HOLY GHOST, which phrase no Bible scholar has ever dared to interpolate into any of the multifarious English Versions. No, not even the Jehovah's witnesses. This is how the Christians manufacture God's word."
"Muhammad, the natural successor to Christ," Ahmed Deedat, p. 51

Back to John 16:12-16
"For he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak:" This too is an interesting statement. It reminds us of the verses of Deuteronomy 18:18-19 which shall be discussed soon, specifically:
" I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [it] of him." (Deuteronomy 18:18-19)
It is also interesting to read the words of the Qur'an: "Nor does he (Muhammad) speak of his own desire. It is but an Inspiration that is inspired [unto him]" (Qur'an53:3-4)


Angels can transform into human beings, that is how Archangel Gabriel came to Muhammad, in Human form.(See Qur'an 51:24-28 and 11:77 The story of the trial of the leper, bald man and blind man among the Children of Israel, in which it says that Allah sent an angel in human form to test them. [al-Bukhaari and Muslim].)

All Bibles in existence today are compiled from "ancient manuscripts," the most ancient of which being those of the fourth century C.E. Any scholar of the Bible will tell us that no two ancient manuscripts are exactly identical. All Bibles in our possession today are the result of extensive cutting and pasting from these various manuscripts with no single one being the definitive reference.

Songs of Solomon(Songs of Songs):
Cons objection:
"The Song of Songs (or Canticle of Canticles) is an exquisite collection of love lyrics, arranged to tell a dramatic tale of mutual desire and courtship."
We are talking about the 5th chapter of the book, not the whole book.
Songs of Solomon 5:7 "The watchmen found me as they made their rounds in the city. They beat me, they bruised me; they took away my cloak, those watchmen of the walls!"
That is indeed some love lyrics.
My adversary completely ignores the Hadith and the discreptions of the verses as said in my previous rounds instead restates his previous argument.
Please refer to my previous argument.

The translation of Muhammadim:
Ben Yehuda's Hebrew-English Dictionary defines "Mahmad" as "lovely, coveted one, precious one, praised one".

Isaiah 29:12:
Yes it mentions the "Punishment" but then Bible speaks in Isaiah 29:12 after the mentioning of the punishment, and transitions into another subject please refer to verses 13-24.

13 Wherefore the Lord said,

Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth,
and with their lips do honour me,
but have removed their heart far from me,
and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
14 therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people,
even a marvellous work and a wonder:
for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish,
and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord,
and their works are in the dark, and they say,
Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter’s clay:
for shall the work say of him that made it,
He made me not?
or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it,
He had no understanding?

17 Is it not yet a very little while,
and Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field,
and the fruitful field shall be esteemed as a forest?
18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book,
and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity,
and out of darkness.
19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the Lord,
and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.
20 For the terrible one is brought to nought,
and the scorner is consumed,
and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:...

Closing statement:

I really had fun debating with you, thanks for this great debate.

Thy will be done.

ksang

Con

Thank you Pro, for your response. For the last round I will summarize my arguments and refute any new claims by Pro.

Deuteronomy 18:18
The Gospels affirm that Christ is indeed the Prophet AND the Messiah. The OT never states that the Messiah and the Prophet are two distinct figures.
Matthew 21:11 - "The crowds answered, 'This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee.'" (Notice that in context, Christ does not correct them)
John 5:46 - "If you believed Moses, you would believe me [Christ], for he wrote about me."

Concerning Pro's mention of Isaiah 42:11, let us look at the verse in context:
"Sing to the LORD a new song, his praise from the ends of the earth, you who go down to the sea, and all that is in it, you islands, and all who live in them. Let the desert and its towns raise their voices; let the settlements where Kedar lives rejoice. Let the people of Sela sing for joy; let them shout from the mountaintops. Let them give glory to the LORD and proclaim his praise in the islands."

As you can see, this verse simply calls for praise from around the world, not just Kedar. How Pro extracted a claim that "messenger" will be from Kedar confuses me.

I believe I have completely refuted the arguments from Pro regarding the "brethren."

John 16:12 -16
Pro is very correct in stating that "paraclytos" with a "y" does not mean "comforter."
"Parakletos" with an "e", the word I have been arguing for, means "comforter" or "advocate." [1][2][3]
I would also like to question Pro's claim that Abdul-Ahad Dawud was the Roman Catholic Bishop of Uramiah as his biography never states anything as significant as this. [1]

Regarding the masculine gender of the pronoun referring to the Holy Spirit, I present this quote from Wikipedia:
"This breaking of the grammatical agreement expected by native language readers is an indication of the author's intention to convey the personhood of the Holy Spirit, and also the Spirit's masculinity."[2]

As Christ, one Person of the Triune God, spoke only what the Father commanded him to say (John 12:49), I cannot see why this could not be a legitimate description of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will not speak against the Father, but only what the Father commands Him.

In the last round, I mentioned that Pro should have no problem with the concept of the Holy Spirit not having to possess hearing and speech organs to hear and speak considering that in Islam, that's what God can do (see above my argument in Round 3 for further detail.)

The Bible is considered one of the most well preserved books in history. Please see my Round 3 arguments for more detail.

Song of Songs
Let's look at S of S 5:7 in context:
"I opened for my beloved,
but my beloved had left; he was gone.
My heart sank at his departure.
I looked for him but did not find him.
I called him but he did not answer.
7 The watchmen found me
as they made their rounds in the city.
They beat me, they bruised me;
they took away my cloak,
those watchmen of the walls!"
As you can see, S of S 5:7 is most certainly still part of a love dialogue, as is 5:16 and the whole of S of S.

Pro continues to assert that "machmad", the word found in S of S 5:17 meaning "desirable", means "praised one." I have already provided several dictionaries that don't mention anything about the definition "praised one." See my Round 3 sources for a sampling of dictionaries do not have "praised one" in their entries for "machmad."

Isaiah 29:12
Again, refer to my Round 2 argument about this verse to understand that it is simply referencing a prophecy right above it and is not meant to prophecy the coming of a prophet.

As for the Haggai 2:7 argument Pro mentioned in Round 2, he never mentioned it ever again. I assume he either forgot about it or recognized that it was useless after seeing my refutation of it.

CLOSING STATEMENTS:

Thank you Pro, for a thoughtful, challenging debate. It was a pleasure debating you.

Could you teach me in the comments how to bold or underline my arguments? Thanks!

SOURCES ROUND 2
List of attributes shared by Moses and Jesus came from: http://www.confidentfaith.net...
Most of the rest came from answering-islam.org and the NT.
Some of the S of S argument came from http://www.gotquestions.org....

SOURCES ROUND 4
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...

FIN
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Nasr1 2 years ago
Nasr1
Romans were not mentioned in Isaiah 42 thus they cannot be relate to preaching to gentiles.

The meaning of the verse Isaiah 42:10-12 clearly say it will be the inhabitants of Arabia that will travel to far end of earth to proclaim His praise. Not Romans that spread Pauline-Christianity as can be seen today. And indeed inhabitants of Arabia have been travelling to spread New Song since 7th century till today spreading the message that is Islam. Muslims proclaim His praise everyday.A279;
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Geogeer 3 years ago
Geogeer
ValtinksangTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Both Pro andCon put forth an excellent debate. Keeping my personal views aside, as Pro is making the claim he has the Burden of Proof. While he provides an interpretation that the bible could point to Mohammed, Con showed why the verses he quoted could also have applied to a combination of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Thus I award the debate points to Con.