Muhammad is prophesied in the Bible
Debate Rounds (4)
I only accept a Christian as my opponent.
Round 1: Opinion and acceptance
Round 2: Argument
Round 3: Whatever
Round 4: Whatever
I am fairly new to this site, and I am a "Conservative Christian". I will do my best to debate a more seasoned opponent.
I have read much of the bible, and have found no contradictions inside of it. Acknowledging that Muhammad was prophesied in the Bible leads to multiple contradictions in ethics, law, and practices.
Some examples of this are worshiping. A Christian is directed to worship in congregation and rest every Sabbath day (Originally on Saturday, but moved to Sunday in commemoration of Jesus's believed rising on Sunday, though this is debatable). Muslims Worship 5 times a day, kneeling in the direction of Mecca.
Another example of this is a Woman's clothing. The Bible says that a Woman's head is already covered by her long hair. The Qur'an instructs all of-age women to wear head-scarves.
The last of these examples that I will give is the continuation of old-testament practices. I assume that you acknowledge Jesus's coming if you believe that the new testament prophesied in favor of Muhammad. Jesus discarded the Old Covenant. Jesus is the new covenant, in which stoning, cutting off hands, etc. is not practiced because now sins only need to be apologized for to be forgiven. The Qur'an allows the stoning of Many people (Though no doubtedly many of the stoned may be in need of redirection), a practice the new testament did away with long ago.
I am uncertain as to whether Muhammad acknowledged Jesus Christ as his Savior, and God, but Most Muslims today deny that Jesus was God (Or a Savior) because they cannot find any passage in the bible of Jesus claiming to be God. Look no further, I have one here:
"never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father"s hand. I and the Father are one." -John 10:28
"I and the Father are one". It cannot get much clearer than that.
For next round you must:
-Prove beyond any doubt that the Bible tell us of Muhammad
-Prove beyond any doubt that this Message of Muhammad was positive
-Prove that Muhammad's actions and Teaching do not contradict the Bible
-Explain why many of the Bible's key teaching such as Loving God with Heart, soul, mind and Strength are suddenly dropped, and not mentioned. Both the old, and new testaments speak of God and Love, but the Qur'an hardly mentions it.
-Lastly, now that I have given you a verse from the bible, quoted from Jesus informing you that Jesus was infact the Son of God, How can you possibly believe that Jesus was a Prophet of God, if in your Eyes, he committed Heresy by saying he was God. And Indeed, Muslims do believe that Jesus did not say he was the Son of God, because this would lead to many contradictions.
Final Thoughts: To win this Debate, You must prove to me and the Voters that Muhammad was both mentioned and supported, You must prove that Muhammad's policies and actions were both compatible and supported by the New Testament of the Bible (Remember, If you do not believe in the New Testament, Many Muslims will consider you a Heretic), and lastly, Prove to me and the Voters that Muhammad DID NOT HAVE ONE QUOTE contradicting The Old, or New Testaments.
- Best of Luck, and God-Bless.
Anyways, let me start of with your statement about Jesus being in one with the father. If you read the context of this verse by reading the other verses you would realise that this means being one in purpose. This is a very ambiguous verse you know.
The thing is that there are verses in the Bible that say that Jesus isn't God explicitly and there are implicit verses that could mean that Jesus is God. What do we take, point blank explicits or the verses that can be interpreted by anyone that comes and wants to give an interpretation? We'll discuss Jesus later on, whatever.
Now let's take a look in Isaiah 42 that most certainly talks about Muhammad SAW. Isaiah describes itself as a prophecy of the future. It starts of with:
Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight
At least 3 names of the prophet Muhammad SAW are mentioned here.
Servant of God = Abd=Allah
Chosen one = Mustafa
In whom I delight = Habib Allah
Isaiah even specifies the location of this person. It states
Let the wilderness and its towns raise their voices;
let the settlements where Kedar lives rejoice.
Let the people of Sela sing for joy;
let them shout from the mountaintops.
What a coincidence that God narrows this place down to Kedar's location. Throughout the Bible Kedar and his sons are linked to Arabia. Example: The book of Ezekiel chapter 27 verse 21 to 23 tells us that
"Arabia and all the princes of Kedar, they were your customers for lambs, rams and goats; for these they were your customers."The traders of Sheba and Raamah, they traded with you; they paid for your wares with the best of all kinds of spices, and with all kinds of precious stones and gold. "Haran, Canneh, Eden, the traders of Sheba, Asshur and Chilmad traded with you.
Isaiah 42 goes on to narrow the location down further to a specific place in Arabia. The place Sela pinpoints to a specific location in Arabia. The city being spoken of is Medina in Saudi-Arabia because Sela is a mountain in Medina. No doubt that this is talking about a mountain since the mountain tops were also mentioned. Medina was the city of the prophet SAW.
Isaiah informs that this person will bring something new.
Isaiah 42:10 mentions
Sing to the Lord a new song,
his praise from the ends of the earth,
What is meant here by new song is a new law, a new way of worship, a new recitation. This is exactly what Islam represents. The Qur'an opens with the statement "Praise be to God, Lord of the worlds" and is recited multiple times by millions and millions of Muslims every single day. This can't refer to Jesus. Jesus obeyed and followed the Law of Moses throughout his life. Jesus didn't sing a new song, he sung the same song as Moses. Moreover the disciples of Jesus also followed the Law of Moses.
Isaiah mentions who this person will be sent to and what his mission is.
Isaiah 42:6 says.
I will keep you and will make you
to be a covenant for the people
and a light for the Gentiles,
Gentiles means non-Jews (e.g. Polytheists). The Qur'an confirms that it was sent to all of mankind. Again this verse can't apply to Jesus because in the gospel of Matthew 15:24 Jesus says "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Isaiah 42:16 also mentions
I will lead the blind by ways they have not known,
along unfamiliar paths I will guide them;
This fits the description of the pagan Arabs because no prophet was sent to them before. The Qur'an confirms this in chapter 32 verse 3. This cannot apply to Jesus because the Israelites had already received multiple prophets from God.
Again Isaiah 42 verse 17 emphasises the people who this prophet will be sent to.
But those who trust in idols,
who say to images, "You are our gods,"
will be turned back in utter shame.
This perfectly fits within the description of the pagan Arabs. Before the prophet Muhammad SAW came along, the Arabs were worshipping idols of wood and stone. Again this can't apply to Jesus because the Israelites were monotheists.
Matthew 10:5 mentions: These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go onto the road of the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans..
Again Isaiah 42:13 mentions
The lord shall go forth as a mighty man; He shall stir up jealousy like a man of war. He shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against His enemies.
Prophet Muhammad SAW had to engage in many battles and was a commander of war. By comparison Jesus wasn't interested in fighting, he was not a man of war, he was a pacifist according to the Bible and Christians. Remember that the title lord is a title of respect and honor. So to show me in the Bible that Jesus was called lord does not mean that he is God. Even Rabbis were called lord.
Again Isaiah 42:17 says
They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, "Ye are our gods."
Muhammad SAW conquered Mecca. In just 23 years of prophethood, Arabia had detached itself from idol worship and started worshipping the one true God of Abraham. This can't apply to Jesus because Christians themselves were greatly ashamed and they were prosecuted at the hands of the Romans who were idol worshippers. Christians were tortured and even fed to lions.
Isaiah closes with an amazing statement. 18 "Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see.
19 Who is blind, but My servant? Or deaf, as My messenger that I sent? Who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the Lord"s servant?"
20 seeing many things, but thou observest not, opening the ears, but he heareth not."
21 The Lord is well pleased for His righteousness" sake; He will magnify the law and make it honorable.
22 But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses. They are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, "Restore."
23 Who among you will give ear to this? Who will hearken and hear for the time to come?
The deaf and blind are most likely the ones who reject prophet Muhammad SAW and his message.
Qur'an 2: 18 - Deaf, dumb and blind - so they will not return [to the right path].
Jesus never mentioned that he is the last prophet of God. Again Deuteronomy 18:18 mentions a prophet to come like Moses. John 14:16 mentions that there will be another messenger of God.
The Qur'an is consistent with the laws of the OT. The NT is not. The OT prohibits the consumption of swine and alcohol, the Christians are not following this. The NT contradicts the OT, so off course the Qur'an would contradict the Bible. As Isaiah mentioned. A new song would be sung.
Qur'an 3:3: He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.
Concerning the son of God. The son of God is not an exclusive title to Jesus Christ. There are many instances when the term son of God is used. If you would study orthodox Jewish culture you would know that being called the son of God is a title of esteem, honour and prestige. Yes, even lord. They would refer to their Rabbis as lord. This is also known by Eastern Europeans, they refer to people as lord. Jacob and Solomon in Exodus are also called sons of God. Ephraim and Jeremiah are called sons of God. Adam is called the son of God. So this is not an exclusive title.
I'm running out of characters so I can't fulfill what you ask of me to do this round.
Though, I have clearly presented the proofs and evidences that Muhammad SAW is the final messenger of God.
I would first like to address your statement in paragraph one "I can't trust everything out of the bible". You go on to explain that you believe some of it is corrupted. If you cannot believe some of the Text because it is corrupted, I am interested to know how you know which piece(s) are corrupted? Do you just dis-regard the pieces you do not like because they do not comply with your religion? Or have you read other texts from the time conflicting with facts, or descriptions in the bible. If you cannot tell me exactly what you believe is corrupted and why, you have no legitimate claim to the belief that pieces of the Book are corrupted.
I will now address your second paragraph, stating the previous verse given was out of text.
I have to disagree. You merely brought this up as a Cop-out, as I have read this passage many times, and have found almost no alternate interpretations of this verse. If you can, however prove to me that the text was talking about something else than what I previously thought, I will gladly listen. Otherwise I can pull up 47 additional verses, and examples telling your that Jesus is God, but indeed different, which I will address in the next paragraph. Here is just one other example.
"The Father and I are one."
Once again the people picked up stones to kill him.
Jesus said, "At my Father's direction I have done many good works. For which one are you going to stone me?"
They replied, "We're stoning you not for any good work, but for blasphemy! You, a mere man, claim to be God."
Here you have the Israelites admitting that Jesus claimed to be God. If this text is Corrupted, please tell me what text conflicts with it, and why, if Jesus hadn't claimed to be God, had the Israelites tried to stone him, and later crucified him. If he was merely claiming to be a prophet, why would they kill him? Everything he taught was in-line with the Old Testament.
Onto Isaiah 42.
If any quote mentioned in this debate is "Out of Context" it is this one.
Isaiah 42:6 Clearly Reads:" I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles,"
Mohammad gave no covenant for the people, as he had no power to do so, he did not make any covenant for the Jews (Who he on one occasion slew for disbelief), and he most certainly was not a light to any gentiles but the ones under his command.
I respect him for a Military mind, and a leader, but doubtfully for a prophet.
In addition to this Isaiah 41:25 says that the Messenger comes from the North. Mohammad was from Mecca, Due South. His Army was centered in Modern say Saudi-Arabia, Due South. And also in Isaiah 41, God say he would strengthen Israel, and if they listened to God he would "Uphold Israel's Righteous hand". Mohammad upheld the hand of his own opinions and Nation, but not Israel's as foretold. Before I move onto what this verse REALLY meant, I would like to ask you why I shouldn't believe this certain piece of the text is "Corrupted"?
Additionally, Isaiah 41:26-29 says that the Messenger brought good news to Israel.
Who told of this from the beginning, so we could know,
or beforehand, so we could say, ‘He was right’?
No one told of this,
no one foretold it,
no one heard any words from you.
27 I was the first to tell Zion, ‘Look, here they are!’
I gave to Jerusalem a messenger of good news.
28 I look but there is no one—
no one among the gods to give counsel,
no one to give answer when I ask them.
29 See, they are all false!
Their deeds amount to nothing;
their images are but wind and confusion.
Here is what this paragraph is really referring to. My own bible addresses this.
"To understand the context of the verse, one must remember that Isaiah, who lived in the 8th century B.C., is known as the “Messianic prophet” because he prophesied so many details about Jesus—not Muhammad. Isaiah 29 is in a context in which God pronounced woes on Judah for her sins at that time, i.e., 702 B.C. The context indicates that within a year, the great Assyrian king Sennacherib would lay siege to Jerusalem in 701 B.C. (vs. 3). Jerusalem (called “Ariel”) would be attacked by her enemies and punished for her crimes against God, and then those enemies would, themselves, also receive their just desserts (vss. 4-8). God’s people were in the throes of deliberate spiritual blindness, and Judah’s false prophets/seers were not helping the situation (vss. 9-10). Notice that Isaiah then described the unwillingness of the people of his day to heed the truth by comparing them to a literate person who is told to read something, but refuses, excusing himself by saying the document is sealed (vs. 11). It then is delivered to an illiterate person, but he excuses himself by saying he cannot read (vs. 12). The point is that the people of Isaiah’s day refused to pay attention to God’s Word spoken through His prophets. They did not want it! Verses 13-16 explain that because of their closed minds, they would all suffer for their rejection of His Word when the Assyrians arrived to besiege the city. But, as usual, God revealed a better day when people would listen (vss. 17ff.). Having examined the context, it is transparently evident that these verses have absolutely nothing to do with Muhammad!"
In conclusion for this above paragraph, I can safely assume that we could continue on all day with this topic, as dozens of different empires and dynasties after the 7th century B.C. (The Time of Isaiah) have occured. This proof is not definitive.
You next claim that Jesus was not a light to Gentiles. You have put all of your Cards and quotes you have on the table, but you have not realized that Jesus's true followers are Largely "Gentile".
Paul went from Cyprus, to Asia Minor, To Greece, and Then to Rome.
Peter went to Pontus, Galatia, then Asia
Andrew went to Scythia
and countless others. Jesus Is a true light to Gentiles.
Everything you are putting before me are apologetics splitting hairs. Everything is prophectic, and therefore can be twisted a thousand ways into a million more shapes.
You moved onto say Jesus "never mentioned he was a prophet of God" and he wasn't. He WAS God. Picture it as a Three ELaf clover. It is all one clover, but it has three different petals. What one petal looks like, the other must Look like.
Next you say the New Testament Contradicts the Old Testament.
As much as you like prophesie, you should know Jeremiah 31:31
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt"
Jesus is the new Covenant. We no longer have to sacrafice Animals for our Sins, or pay with a Chopped hand, or Death. And though we probably should stick to the Culinary laws (As they are healthier) Paul does not list the Culinary Laws as a needed commandment to be a Christian.
Pertaining to the Title "Son of God"
Jesus certainly was the Son of God, but nto litterally the Son, as in Child of God. He was a Piece of God in Human Form. Jesus calls himself God on multiple occasions, he was charged for it, with Roman records to cross-prove it, and he was crucified for it.
You have given me commonly used Muslim quotations. Unfortunately, Many different Cultures, people, and interpretations could fit the same criteria.
You have told me that The Bible is Compatable with the Bible. Yet it dis-regards the New Covenant, Made by Jesus Christ. If Jesus Christ wasn't the NEw Covenant, Than who was, If Mohammad completely follows the Old Testament? Tell me who was promised to the Gentiles and Israel in Jeremiah?
The headscarf is only worn when puberty is reached, even freaking ISIS lets the girls walk around without headscarves before puberty. Mary the mother of Jesus wore a headscarf herself. The Qur'an never talks about stoning people, rather they are found in the Hadith. The laws in the Qur'an and the Hadith go with the OT and the NT. We know that the NT is written by different men throughout the years, what we find is that they ignore the OT so much that the laws have indeed been abolished.
John 10:32 Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?" If Jesus was almighty God he wouldn't need to receive anything from anyone and this verse again proves that the Father and Jesus are three separate beings.
John 10:27 "My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father"s hand."
Here you can clearly see that the context for the next verses means being one in purpose.
Jesus prayed to the Father (Allah). So why would God pray?
Mark 10:18 "Why do you call Me good? Jesus replied, "No one is good except God alone."
Why would God say something like that?
John 14:28 You heard Me say, "I am going away and I am coming back to you." If you loved Me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I.
He admitted that the Father is greater than him. If they are both the same how come one is greater than the other?
"And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent." John 5:37-38
Here you have another clear cut statement. Why would Jesus tell the people that they have never seen God even though he was standing right there? In another verse Jesus mentions that if you have seen me then you have seen the Father, showing a clear contradiction that is undeniable.
When we found the Dead Sea Scrolls in Kumaram, we see that the early followers Christians were still a part of Judaism. When Jesus Christ had departed from this earth the disciples still daily went to to the Synagogue. This is what Jesus Christ brought, he brought the renewal of the laws of Moses. Jesus went to the temple himself and he worshipped. The people of Kumaran still considered themselves as Jews following Jesus Christ as their prophet.
Matthew 21: 11 The crowds replied, "This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee."
How can one be a prophet of himself?
Why does the Bible cause so much confusion about who is God and who is not? You have different doctrines within Christianity, you don't have this in Islam. We have different sects, but we all believe in One almighty Allah and that he has no partners. Every single Muslim believes this.
You went to Isaiah 41, Isaiah 29, Isaiah whatever, to debunk the statements in Isaiah 42. How does that work? Isaiah is a whole book. To refute statements in a book you don't go from page 115 to page 385, that's silly. Use Isaiah 42 to refute my claims and not another chapter. You can also go to Isaiah 9 and say "Oh look it is talking about Jesus", it doesn't work like that.
Muhammad SAW did bring a covenant. Do you know what "a" means? It means any covenant, it's an indefinite article. Again, gentiles do not fit into the description of Jesus AS because the Israelites were monotheists. I've proven that Jesus AS does not fit into this description with multiple verses. You're talking as if the knowledge of God is limited. So if this person is not Jesus, who is it? Muhammad SAW brought a new book, new laws, a whole political and economic system, etc.
"For a long time I have kept silent,
I have been quiet and held myself back. (Isaiah 42:14)
This is the case with Muhammad SAW, it was a long time since the last prophet of God came. So to say that Muhammad SAW is not a prophet because it was a long times since the last prophet came does not prove him wrong, rather it proves him right.
Let them give glory to the Lord
and proclaim his praise in the islands. (Isaiah 42 verse 12)
This was before the verse about the mountain tops at the mountain called Sela. Muslims were calling the Athan on the mountain Sela giving glory to God saying "God is great x4, I bear witness that there is no god but God x2.... and a bunch of other statements"
You completely ignored the fact that Isaiah 42 pinpoints to Medina. You ignored the fact that Jesus did not battle. You ignored the fact that Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel. You ignored the fact that the Israelites did not worship idols. The only reason you use other chapters is because Isaiah 42 is a prophecy of another prophet. Isaiah is full of prophecies not just Jesus AS.
Regarding Jeremiah. This verse may or may not apply to Jesus, definitely not Muhammad SAW, but maybe Jesus. Since verse 31 mentions
"when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah."
Jesus AS did not guide all the Jews, only the sheep he was sent to. Even if this verse is talking about Jesus AS, this does not disprove my claim of Isaiah 42. There are also many Hadiths where Muhammad talks about his prophecies in the Bible.
Here is proof upon proof that this chapter is only talking about Muhammad SAW. http://www.manyprophetsonemessage.com...
Now let me talk about Deuteronomy 18:18.
Christians claim that Jesus is "like unto thee" (like Moses), I wonder why they forget that Moses was not the son of God, neither he was human and god at the same time like Jesus is claimed by Christians to be. Moses got married and died a natural death. He fought the Holy war. Contrary to that Jesus never fought the Holy war, never led an army beside his terrorist attack on the temple according to the Bible. Jesus never got married, didn"t have children and he didn"t die a natural death and never got buried like Moses. Jesus according to Christians died on the cross and rose again after three days, while Moses didn"t die on the cross neither rose again.
Here is a 1 hour discussion on who's the prophet in Deuteronomy 18:18:
John 14:16 also mentions the coming of another prophet. Jesus never mentioned that he is the final prophet of God. If he would truly be the last one, he would mention it.
The difference with the Bible and the Qur'an when it comes to clarity is that the Qur'an is clear about who is God.
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him.
Bring me a statement like it where it states that God is 3 in 1 and that Jesus AS, the holy spirit and the Father are one. The Bible is so huge, yet it can't give me that statement. The Bible mentions that there is only one God many times and the only way to make 2 more beings God as well is to put them together as one, that is the only way.
Christ IS THE NEW COVENANT. THE OLD COVENANT IS FULFILLED AND THE NEW ONE IS MADE.
This is the Doctrine with Christianity is founded on, God and Christ himself acknowledging this.
Christ was here to set an Example to Humans, of Course he is going to Pray to the Father.
Of Course Jesus Fulfilled the Prophecies and laws of Old, he WAS THE NEW COVENANT.
Next I see you have failed to read my comment on Head Scarves. I clearly recall me stating "All of Age Women"
If you do not know what "Of Age" Means, Please look it up.
And don't think for one Second I didn't know that Mary wore a head scarf. Oh wait... What if this piece of the Bible was "Corrupted"? You claim this on the Grounds that many people wrote the New Testament. I say to you, Surely you know the same remains true with The Old Testament, And The Qur'an, which was written in part by Mohammad's advisers.
Next you talk about Headscarves, which is Something that needs to be addressed. The Bible indeed says that all Married Women should wear a headscarf while worshiping. This is why 200 years ago, Christian Women wore head scarves, or bonnets. Today, Christians hardly know about this commandment, and should pay attention to it in the future.
Next you claim that because Jesus calls God the father His father, Jesus is not God. Jesus Refers to him as "The Father" because God the Father was the father of creation. The Trinity are separate in one.
You debate Christianity, without truly understanding what we stand for. The Old Testament prophesied Jesus, and Jesus Sayeth:
"If you trust me, you are trusting not only me, but also God who sent me. For when you see me, you are seeing the one who sent me. I have come as a light to shine in this dark world, so that all who put their trust in me will no longer remain in the dark." John 12:44-46
The Lord Jesus Sayeth:
"Your father Abraham rejoiced as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad."
The people said, "You aren't even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?"
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!" John 8:56-58
The Lord Jesus Sayeth:
"No one can come to the Father except through me. If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!"
Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied."
Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?" John 14:6-9
The Lord Jesus Sayeth:
"I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd....My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." John 8:31,32
Shall we take a Look at the Qur'an? You claim your book is above Scrutiny.
He was created from a fluid, ejected,Emerging from between the backbone and the ribs. CORRUPT. Semen comes from the Testicles.
And of all things We created two mates; perhaps you will remember. CORRUPT. GOD THE FATHER created things like Fungi, Protists, and Bacteria, reproducing Asexually.
It is He Who (prepared the earth for your life before He gave you life, and) created all that is in the world for you (in order to create you - the human species - and make the earth suitable for your life); then He directed (His Knowledge, Will, Power, and Favor) to the heaven and formed it into seven heavens. He has full knowledge of everything.
CORRUPT. GOD THE FATHER clearly made the Universe in the Old Testament, before he made the Earth.
"In the Beginning, God made THE HEAVENS and THE EARTH". In Jewish Grammar, this clearly means that HEAVENS came first. And POINT TO ONE LOCATION IN THE O.T. THAT MENTIONS 7 HEAVENS.
Your book is scientifically in-accurate, so do not believe for one second your hypocritical platform can slander one book which is allegedly "Corrupt" without proving that your own book isn't "Corrupt".
You say Jesus was Jewish in Faith, Jesus WAS and IS faith. Jesus Worshiped as directed in the Old Testament, yes. but The Persecution of Followers of Jesus require another Church entirely.
The Bible does not Confuse. Jesus is not God the Father. God the Father is not the Holy Spirit, The Holy Spirit is not Jesus, BUT ALL ARE ONE.
You who deny Jesus, you who blasphemy by your accusations of Falsehood in Holy Books, You who are hypocritical in your assumptions,I remind you that you are debating the idea that Muhammad was predicted in the Bible, yet like a true hypocrite you cast aside thousands of other quotes in the Bible, only choosing to believe in this one Prophesy. Your own argument has collapsed. Your argument cannot be supported on something YOU CLAIMED YOURSELF to the a "Corrupted Book".
In Isaiah, you utterly ignore sense because it is a few pages away. SENSE IS AT YOUR DOORSTEP. I pulled verses from 42, 41, and Countless others.
Now you claim that Jesus is Invalid for the prophecy because he was not a Gentile. May I remind you the Prophecy did not say the Messenger had to be a Gentile. Merely a Light to the Gentiles. JESUS HAS MORE GENTILE FOLLOWERS THAN MOHAMMAD AND ALL OF HIS EXECUTIVES AND ALLIES HAD COMBINED!
JESUS was prophesied, JESUS was Human, and went through Human temptations, went through learning human skills AND DIED IN A HUMAN WAY. But he came back! HE came back truly revealing himself as God! HE rose from the Dead! Not Mohammad! Mohammad didn't even claim to be a Prophet!
"You ignore the fact Jesus did not fight Battles"
I acknowledge the fact Jesus Fought Evil, a Bigger Battle than Mohammad ever fought.
"You ignore the fact Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel"
Response: Prove by the way you live that you have repented of your sins and turned to God. Don't just say to each other, 'We're safe, for we are descendants of Abraham.' That means nothing, for I tell you, God can create children of Abraham from these very stones
GOD can create Children of Israel from the very keyboard you are writing on. Jesus was sent to save the lost sheep, and be a light to the Gentiles.
"You ignore the fact that the Israelites did not worship idols"
I acknowledge the fact that many Israelites were worshiping money. Remember when Jesus flipped over a table in the temple? and saying that not one stone would be left standing of the Temple?
Jesus Christ, Lord of Lords, Fought the greatest holy war to be fought. Through peaceful demonstrations. All your brute Qur'an knows is Forceful conversion. You claim Jesus "Led a Terrorist attack on the Temple" GOD dismantled the temple of Idols. You are disgracing what you believe to be your own prophet. JESUS never was married to a creation of God, JESUS never died a natural death, BUT ROSE FROM THE DEAD. Jesus tells us to beware of False Prophets.
Our God is but one. Three In One, demonstrated by a Clover.
Our God is All loving.
Our God is All Just
Our God is all Knowing and Powerful.
The Bible is very clear on who God is.
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all - Words from Jesus pairing GOD THE FATHER-JESUS THE SON-AND THE HOLY SPIRIT
The New Testament, and Jewish Grammatical laws of singular and Plural (A Singular "Lord" could also apply to multiple Lords) strongly imply the Trinity. All being God, pieces being sub-ordinate to others, as one leaf on a clover is farther above the lesser two.
Jesus has said HE AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.
Matt. 16:3 Removed "o ye hypocrites NI, NAS, RS, NRS, LB, NC
Matt. 23:14 Verse removed NI, NAS, RS, NRS, NC
Acts 8:37 is missing in most Bibles
Luke 21:8 Changed I am Christ TO I am He, the One NI, NAS, NKJ, RS, NRS, LB, NC
Luke 24:6 Removed "He is not here, but is risen RS, NRS
There are hundreds of verses that have been changed, removed or added. I can go on and on and on about them. If you need proof you can go ahead and take some different Bible versions.
You just told me that Christ worshipped God to set an example for mankind, but Christians never worship with their face on the ground. Only the Muslims do. You admitted that Christian women should wear a veil and the only women who wear their veil are the Muslims. Jesus explicitly said in the verse that he did not came to abolish the law, but rather to fulfill the laws of Moses. Christians today deny the laws of the OT and don't follow them, which means that the law is abolished. Muslims do follow the OT and refer back to the OT when we are not sure about laws. Isaiah mentions a covenant not "The new covenant", so therefore this can perfectly apply to Muhammad SAW.
I do understand the trinity. It's 3 persons in 1 being. Correct? Yes, correct. With this statement you admit that the Trinity does not work. Nabeel Qureshi went on and gave his name as an example for a person and his human form as a being. What if I told you that you actually believe that God is made out of 3 beings, which is a contradiction. When Jesus was sent to earth you seem to believe that he was 100% God, but you also believe that he was 100% man and so that means he was 2 separate beings at the same time. You believe that the holy spirit, the Father and Jesus are different entities from one another. In other words they are 3 different beings. When Jesus "died" and he was in the belly of the earth for a few days, he was dead.So you believe God died. When Jesus was dead, the other 2 entities were functioning independently of Jesus. Zinedine is my name, I also have other names like CuriousFear. When I die it is not just Zinedine that dies, but also CuriousFear. I die completely. If Jesus was just a name then the rest of the names should also die. The OT describes God as one almighty God, this goes with the Qur'an and not the Trinity. If you can't articulate the Trinity then you don't believe in it, simple.
You have proven that there are contradictions in the Bible. One verse tells us that if you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father and the other one says the opposite.
There is nothing wrong in science in the Qur'an and I'm glad that you give me some examples to try to disprove the Qur'an, but let me start off by saying that you don't know the meaning of corruption. Definition of corruption: a word whose original form has been changed. This is not the case with the Qur'an, no one to this day has proven that the Qur'an is corrupt. Bring me two Qur'ans in Arabic off course, where words are added or changed. Right, you can't so there I proved its preservation.
Here you have a woman trying to claim that the Qur'an is not preserved, but she fails to show a difference.
Here you have another Christian claiming as if there are so many differences and then she fails to give one, she went as far as wanting the cameras off. She's Jay Smith's student btw.
You played yourself using Sura 86:6-7.
Semen is not mentioned in this verse. In fact the embryology in the Qur'an is completely correct and has been seen as correct by top embryologists.
Here we have embryologist Keith Moore showing the accuracy of the Qur'an, he even admitted that and I quote "The only reasonable explanation is that these descriptions have been revealed to Muhammad by God"
You mentioned that semen comes from the testicles, this is false. Semen comes from the seminal vesicle, which is located in the pelvis. On top of that you've got the wrong gender. This is talking about the female reproductive system. https://en.wikipedia.org...
Azwaj doesn't only mean pairs or male/female. It means groups that work together or complement each other within the group, as in the Quran's Al-Waqi'a surah, "And you were three azwaj" I.e. three groups, the forerunners, the people of the right hand and the people of the left hand, or in surat Ta Ha verse 131 when it says "And do not extend your eyes toward that by which We have given enjoyment to [some] categories (azwaj) of them."
Did you know that the Qur'an also mentions seven heavens and that the highest is called Al-Firdaus? Who are you to say that this is wrong, first you need to realise who the author of the Qur'an is. The author is either God, men or the devil these are the three options and you can add 1 if you want. The Qur'an is inconsistent if the book indeed came from the devil as the naive Christians believe, I used naive on purpose. Men couldn't have authored this book either, refer to my other debates for proof. So we are left with God.
You again misused the word corrupt, look it up in a dictionary. Dr. Maurice Bucaille went to Syria just to study Arabic and then took anything out of the Qur'an that could be scientifically tested, he found no errors and then he said "Ashadu an La Ilaha il Allah". Your own book tells you that there were no humans 7,000 years ago, honestly. Why are you bringing up science?
You say that I can't even use the Bible to support my claims because I believe it to be a corrupted book. How does that make sense? Alright, I'll use the Qur'an.
Those who say, "God is the Messiah, son of Mary," have defied God. The Messiah himself said; "Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord." If anyone associates others with God, God will forbid him from the Garden, and Hell will be his home. No one will help such evildoers. Those people who say that God is the third of three are defying [the truth]: there is only One God. If they persist in what they are saying, a painful punishment will afflict those of them who persist. Why do they not turn to God and ask his forgiveness, when God is most forgiving, most merciful? The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger; other messengers had come and gone before him; his mother was a virtuous woman; both ate food. See how clear We make these signs for them; see how deluded they are.
Qur'an, sura 5 (Al-Ma'ida), ayat 72-75
According to the Qur'an you are an evildoer and you are going to hell.
The Bible never says that God is three in one, you failed to give that statement from the Bible and rather you preached your belief as some kind of fact. Unitarian Christians have been murdered and tortured throughout history because they believed in one God and not three (I proved to you that you believe in 3). In the Netherlands unitarian Christians were slaughtered for one reason, simply because they believed in one almighty God and not three.
You contradicted the Bible with many allegations such as that the apostles were mostly gentiles.
I said that Jesus never said that he was the last prophet of God.
I have already shown you a verse where Jesus is a prophet. There are many instances in the Bible where Christ is referred to as a prophet (e.g. Deuteronomy 18:15, 18; Luke 7:16; 24:19; John 4:19; 6:14; 9:17; Acts 3:20-23; Hebrews 1:1-2). There are many more where He gave prophecies (e.g. Matthew 16:21; 17:22-23; 25:31-34; 26:64; Mark 13:1-2; John 7:37-40).
Confirming Islam's message about Jesus AS.
You failed to show me a single verse in the whole Bible where your belief is confirmed. You failed to show me the trinity in the Bible. You didn't refute my claims. Salam
Response to your first paragraph:
All Religious texts have been changed. What the Bible and Qur'an both have in common, however, is that the Changes are only cosmetic. Your points against many bible verses are invalid as I can pull up many changes in the Qur'an as well.
I do have this against you though: ALL Qur'an variants have been altered in some way. the King James Bible has not.
Response to your second paragraph:
You here make an assumption that all Christians do not pray with their face to the ground, which is wrong. Stonewall Jackson (1824-1863) prayed in such a manner, among with many Catholics. It is also worthy to point out that Jesus did not pray in this manner consistently. Jesus often put his hands together as all Christians do, but he also put his fore-head to the floor, which some Christians do as well.
On to the Headscarves which I Specifically addressed earlier, it was a practice which fell out of Christian habit. It is suppose to be in place, but this is the fault of the Christian people, rather than the Bible. The Tradition of this has persisted in Funerals and weddings, but not regular worship.
By "Law" Jesus referred to the 10 Commandments, which are still highly regarded and followed by Christians. Jesus cancelled no law of the Jews, but installed a new covenant to forgive all of the "Lost Sheep". Paul (Which Jesus gave Divine wisdom to) made a list of things Gentiles had to do in order to be Christian, allowing them to keep some of their customs.
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: Ephesians 1:17
In return to your accusations of Christians, I have this against you: Muslims do not follow the Culinary food law, and if you claim to follow the Old laws, tell me if you support the Death of Gays, and peoples of different Religions?
Response to your third paragraph:
You do not seem to fully understand the Trinity. As a Christian, I believe that God is capable of anything and everything, and therefore some things he does we just cannot understand.
You were correct in saying God is 3 in 1, but you were incorrect in saying Jesus was 100% Man. He is God, but in a Form of a Man, being directed by the Father. Inside the Trinity, There are inferiors and Superiors. God the Father is superior to the other two, Jesus is sub-servant to God the Father, and The Holy Ghost is sub-servant to Jesus, but yet al are one.
Picture it as the American Government. Three Branches, all with different tasks, one is the Head, and the other two have other business to attend to.
You seem to believe that Jesus can Die. Jesus was Man, so Yes, he could Die in Flesh, but he is God and Everlasting in spirit. Jesus can never die in Spirit.
The OT does not describe THE LORD as one. Examples:
You are Right as far as I cannot bring you two quotes from the Qur'an that Changed, Because Your Original Qur'an is No longer existing. Infact, the History of the Qur'an is so Sketchy, I cannot even begin to think why you would trust in it's credibility. The Original by Mohammad is lost, destroyed, or preserved in a few passages on leather or Rock. 7 of Mohammad's lieutenants created their own takes, all of them contradicting or differing from one another, allow for the changing of Languages, and Differing in Dialects, and the Consolidation of all 7 of them into only 4, altering, changing, or maybe even completely taking out confusing verses to force the book not to contradict.
You seem to not get over that a few words in the Bible changed, but yet we have over 5,664 Biblical manuscripts still readable in Greek, Hebrew, Armenian, and More. Your Original Qur'an is Long gone. Christians can compare their Bibles to the Original Scrolls, and K.J.V. (Being the most original and True). There is no way to determine what is Right and wrong in the Qur'an.
Here is a video on a similar subject.
I would also like to point out that the name "Allah" was the name given to a Pagan Moon God before the Qur'an was Written. "Allah" Is not a Name. It is a Title. The Christian's God's name is YHWH, or Yahweh. Many alternatively pronounce and spell is as Jehovah, believing this to be a more accurate pronunciation of YHWH in Ancient Hebrew.
Next you seem to mis-understand what I said about "Semen". I was not Referencing Semen, but Sperm. A Baby is not born of Semen, but of Sperm, which contrary to the Qur'an, is not a liquid, and not from the inner of your Abdomen. If "Allah" is all knowing, why did he say that Babies are Born of this Liquid? Babies cannot be Born of Semen alone.
You next claim that the Qur'an was directly authored by "Allah". Yet in your Qur'an, it clearly says Mohammad Authored the Book with "Allah" Directing Him. Mohammad=Man. After this copy was destroyed/lost, Mohammad's 7 Advisers re-wrote it from memory.
Adviser=Man. The Qur'an was obviously written by Man. It is "naive" to assume that your God wrote it himself.
You say I claimed that the Apostles were Gentiles, Which I did not say. If you would Listen, instead of Blatantly throwing accusations, you would have known that I told where the Apostles went after Jesus died, explaining why Jesus is a "Light to the Gentiles".
For Clarification, I do infact worship Did the Magi not Come and "Worship" Jesus when he was Born?
You fail to prove your point that Mohammad was prophesied in the Bible. All of the verses you have given (3 in all) have been refuted, and you have failed to show why we should trust the Qur'an.
Another Video worth Watching:
A Link showing that the Bible is correct in Scientific terms:
Qur'ans Scientific Legitimacy:
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