The Instigator
muslimnomore
Pro (for)
Losing
4 Points
The Contender
TG2333
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

Muhammad wrote some Qur'anic verses in order to have sex with more women

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
TG2333
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/2/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 988 times Debate No: 39862
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (17)
Votes (2)

 

muslimnomore

Pro

I believe that certain Qur'anic verses were written by Muhammad and not some supernatural being called Allah (btw, I do not believe that Allah exists). They were written by Muhammad in order to allow him to have sex with women.
My arguments, the verses in question, and more evidence that Muhammad had a very healthy sexual appetite which he often satiated by pretending to be a Prophet, are outlined on this page, which is not my work:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com...;
TG2333

Con

hello my opponent, it's seems like you just created this account you have there just to do these kind of things which is sad.

1_ do you have any proof that mohamed did that just because he wanted women ?

2_ and it wasn't written by mohamed cause mohamed couldn't read or write

3_ jesus is mentioned in the quran more then mohamed, and marry mother of jesus is mentioned more than the two, she is mentioned 32 times, she even has her own surah

4_ god isn't something supernatural, he's not related to nature to be supernatural

5_ the link is broken

6_ we don't know about his mom, dad, etc,etc cause it wasn't mentioned in the quran, it wasn't written by him, he's the one who was memorizing it from the angel gabriel, he would come to him and tell him the verses, then he would go to the sahaba, to write it down for him, after mohamed died the quran wasn't like this one, the pages was separated, every surah was separated, then one of the sahaba said that he's going to make then all a one book, so they won't get lost, and a lot A LOT of people had it memorized.

7_ this debate is so random
Debate Round No. 1
muslimnomore

Pro

hello my opponent, it's seems like you just created this account you have there just to do these kind of things which is sad.
Did I create an account on debate.org to debate people? Yes I did. You find that sad? Why? Did you create an account here to whine? Seems like it, because the rubbish you posted here is more complaining than arguing.

1_ do you have any proof that mohamed did that just because he wanted women ?

Yes.
There are plenty of ahadith and verses which deal with sex and muhammad repeatedly in his da'wah told his followers that they could have unlimited sex in heaven. he saw this as a reward. if he did not have any desires for women, why did he glorify sexual rewards in heaven so much? In addition to this, there are many verses and ahadith where "God" conveniently reveals verses and commandments that allow muhammad to have sex with more and more women.

Here is just one example that I tried to illustrate with the earlier link:

Muhammad freed a slave called Zaid ibn Haritha and adopted him as his son. This is until Muhammad caught a glimpse of Zayd's wife and got the hots for her. Conveniently, a book that was supposed to be guidance for all humanity revealed the following verses (with perfect timing):
"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men." (33:40)
And
"So that there would not be any fault for the believers regarding the wives of their adopted sons." (33:37)

It seems like these verses, amongst others were not revealed by any god, but more likely though up by a 7th century desert dweller who had convinced other people that he was a prophet, in order to help his sex life.

2_ and it wasn't written by mohamed cause mohamed couldn't read or write
Ok, if you want to go int semantics here, let's say that he dictated the words or merely recited them to his followers. He could speak right? He dictated letters to his followers and we have copies of these letters to this day. In a similar manner, whenever Muhammad started to have marital problems, or lusted for another woman, he would conveniently 'reveal' another verse about these things and attribute them to god. Whereas it is more likely that these verses were actually his own concoction. This is because it does not make sense for God to spend so much writing about which women and how many women muhammad can marry, when the quran is supposed to be the final revelation for the guidance of the entirety of humanity.


3_ jesus is mentioned in the quran more then mohamed, and marry mother of jesus is mentioned more than the two, she is mentioned 32 times, she even has her own surah
what the heck does this have to do with anything? I'm not even christian, i'm an atheist.


4_ god isn't something supernatural, he's not related to nature to be supernatural
thank you for demonstrating the very low limits of your vocabulary/thinking/comprehension skills. supernatural means superior to nature, i.e. not bound by the laws of nature. so it means not natural without meaning artificial. if your god is not supernatural, then he is not god.

5_ the link is broken
doesn't matter. i outlined the main point of the link that i wanted to highlight in my response to 1.
6_ we don't know about his mom, dad, etc,etc cause it wasn't mentioned in the quran, it wasn't written by him, he's the one who was memorizing it from the angel gabriel, he would come to him and tell him the verses, then he would go to the sahaba, to write it down for him, after mohamed died the quran wasn't like this one, the pages was separated, every surah was separated, then one of the sahaba said that he's going to make then all a one book, so they won't get lost, and a lot A LOT of people had it memorized.
I probably have a better understanding of how the qur'an was compiled than you. Verses like the ones I mentioned are evidence that Muhammad was not speaking to any angel, but was only thinking about what he could say in order to gain more political power and bed more women. It does not make sense for an inifnitely intelligent god to constantly and conveniently 'reveal' verses that deal with one man's marriages when he is trying to copose a book that is meant to guide the entirety of humanity for the at least the next 1400 years. A time span after which people would look back at his multiple marriages and his marriage to a child and be ashamed to follow his example.

7_ this debate is so random
thanks for making another completely irrelevant statement. btw, no one forced you to accept this debate. if yoou think it is 'random', forfeit and don't waste your time with it. if you don't forfeit, it's not so random is it? it directly affects you and hurts your feelings to hear evidence to suggest that muhammad was more likely to qualify as a sexual predator than the prophet of an intelligent god.

TG2333

Con

1_ he said that pointing to not do adultery, and it's not a reward it's just that you can do whatever you want in heaven

2_all you said about verses are just misunderstanding you have, and second there translated in english, and third of all, stop searching the internet

3_lol dude, i'm a man of proof it's either you have a proof or just don't talk about it ok ? and tell me how many verses is there that talk about women ? theres 6000 verse and theres 1000 that talk about science, the way your talking about it is that it's a porno book, lol you don't know what are you talking about bro lol, reading what you rought gave me a facepalm dude.

4_ for the third one, i said that because it proves that mohamed didn't right his book, and how are you an atheist if you believe in god ?

5_no lol cause the fact that you don't know what are you talking about and all this unvailed information your probably getting it from the internet
Debate Round No. 2
muslimnomore

Pro

1_ he said that pointing to not do adultery, and it's not a reward it's just that you can do whatever you want in heaven
First of all, it is very difficult for muslim men to commit adultery because they are allowed to have multiple wives AND slave girls (33:50 amongst many other verses). Are you telling me that the afterlife-sex that muslims are promised in the quran is not a reward? What is it then? A punishment? The constant promises of sex in the quran and ahadith clearly demonstrate that Muhammad had a massive lust for sex, and to suggest that he didn't marry women for sex id ludicrous.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com...

2_all you said about verses are just misunderstanding you have, and second there translated in english, and third of all, stop searching the internet
Are you complaining about posting verses in English when we're having a debate in English? I didn't need t search the internet to come across these verses, they are readily available in any copy of the Qur'an.


3_lol dude, i'm a man of proof it's either you have a proof or just don't talk about it ok ? and tell me how many verses is there that talk about women ? theres 6000 verse and theres 1000 that talk about science, the way your talking about it is that it's a porno book, lol you don't know what are you talking about bro lol, reading what you rought gave me a facepalm dude.
Now I'm starting to think you're just trolling me here. Reading what I "rought" "gave you" a facepalm? The Qur'an is not a porno, but if it were made into a movie, it would at least be rated R. It is more likely that it would never make it to theatres because of the extreme portrayals of torture, violence and forced sex in it (e.g. sex with slave girls that I pointed out earlier in my response to 1). 1000 qur'anic verses talk about science? Do you even know what science is? Saying that 1/5th of the Quran is about science is like saying 1/5th of all kindergarten level fairy tales outline designs for particle accelerators. I'm sure someone could use the story of rapunzel and make some weak connection between that story and particle physics.


4_ for the third one, i said that because it proves that mohamed didn't right his book, and how are you an atheist if you believe in god ?
"Rought/Right" = wrong. "Wrote/write" = right. You pointed out that the Qur'an mentiones Mary in order to prove that Muhammad didn't write the Qur'an? That is seriously troll-level stupidity. And when did I state that I believe in god? I don't.


5_no lol cause the fact that you don't know what are you talking about and all this unvailed information your probably getting it from the internet
Unsubstanitated claims here. I know more about the Qur'an and the English language than you do if this debate is any indication.
TG2333

Con

"""first of all, it is very difficult for muslim men to commit adultery because they are allowed to have multiple wives AND slave girls""""

ya cause you know my dad is married to 10 women, and slave girls or whatever is in your head, slaves aren't allowed in general, ya i don't think you do know anything about islam.

""""Are you complaining about posting verses in English when we're having a debate in English? I didn't need t search the internet to come across these verses, they are readily available in any copy of the Qur'an""""

no it's the fact that your taking the english translations as a fact or probably some non muslim guy explained to you the verses, arabic and english are so much diff, arabic has symbols and letters that do not exist in english, and every word has 5,10 meanings, it depends on what was the quran talking about before that verse, and how is that letter spelled example, لَعِبَ talks about the past and it means played, لَعِبْ talks about the present and it means that he already played, لَعِبِ talks about the presents and it means that someone is talking about playing and other two meanings, this is a poor example i just gave you , and theres ALOT AND ALOT of rules in arabic, these are just the basics

oh and watch this,

I know more about the Qur'an and the English language than you do if this debate is any indication

lol yep you do :D , it's like a little kid coming to me and saying that he knows about rocket science more then anyone, clearly you do not know anything about it, this debate was a waste of time
Debate Round No. 3
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by muslimnomore 3 years ago
muslimnomore
can't believe i didn't mention throughout this debate that muhammad had seen zaynab in private and scantily clad prior to her divorce from zaid ibn haritha. and when he saw her he said "glory be to god, the one who changes men's hearts."
Posted by NiqashMotawadi3 3 years ago
NiqashMotawadi3
I didn't make any assumptions. I read your debate twice and ended with my evaluation. You didn't fulfill your BoP. Better luck next time. Learn what non-sequiturs are.
Posted by muslimnomore 3 years ago
muslimnomore
You predicted my arguments based off of the title it seems and not the content. That wasn't my argument. I pointed out quite a few times that I would attempt to prove that Muhammad was more likely to have written theses verses than a god since the verses directly affected Muhammad's sex life. Unfortunately you completely glossed over this based on your presumptuous predictions. Also,, the sentence 'I do not value your opinion here' in no way implies that your opinion is not valuable. If this debate, and most of my other conversations here are any indication, my claims about people's inability to look past their assumptions and actually comprehend my arguments are demonstrably true.
Posted by NiqashMotawadi3 3 years ago
NiqashMotawadi3
@muslimnomore,

Earlier I predicted your arguments and warned you not to start a debate. You presented other arguments which are non-sequitur logical fallacies. You can't go from the claim that heaven is full of sex to then say that Mohammad included that to have sex with more wives. There is no way in logic to reach such conclusion from that premise. Yet I still gave you the 3 points for arguments as your opponent did not know how to refute those.

"This demonstrates your carelessness/weak English comprehension skills, and therefore I don't value your opinion here."

You used the same insult against many here. You seem to think that everyone who disagrees with you doesn't know/comprehend English when yours is full of stylistic oddities and grammatical errors. It's like being proud of a broken car that doesn't work that well, as a matter of fact.

I myself had many debates against Muslims and I've studied Islam for five years and advanced rationality for another three. I can conclude based on your attitude that you're as irrational as the Muslims you oppose. I awarded you 4 points, 3 of which you barely deserved, and you still lecture me and tell me that my opinion isn't valuable. You're hilarious.
Posted by TG2333 3 years ago
TG2333
because your arguments are fake and just lies, you don't know what are you talking about
Posted by muslimnomore 3 years ago
muslimnomore
niqash, I am not surprised that you did not find my arguments convincing. Earlier, for some mysterious reason, you read my arguments and concluded that I was trying to show that Muhammad's multiple marriages went against the Quran's rules regarding marriage. This demonstrates your carelessness/weak English comprehension skills, and therefore I don't value your opinion here.
Posted by WyattEarp19 3 years ago
WyattEarp19
I wish I could vote...
Posted by WyattEarp19 3 years ago
WyattEarp19
I wish I could vote...
Posted by NiqashMotawadi3 3 years ago
NiqashMotawadi3
RFD

I approached this thinking that Pro is going to lose, but Con's responses never dealt effectively with the weak arguments Pro made such as that Mohammad came up with verses to bed women and the Zaid ibn Haritha incident. Con's rejections were a bit childish and offensive as he described his opponent as a little ignorant kid without backing up his claims such as the claim that "all you said about verses are just misunderstanding you have, and second there translated in English, and third of all, stop searching the internet." I wanted to see how they are misunderstandings but I didn't get any counter-evidence but a red herring about Arabic words having many meanings. Both sides didn't make any good arguments as Pro didn't offer any evidence for why Mohammad would do that and how does he know that this is most likely th case, but offered some red herrings about heaven being sexual and that there are many sexual instances in the Qur'an and the hadeeths. Hence, arguments go for Pro as Con didn't effectively refute those ridiculous arguments.

Both participants lose conduct and so it is tied. Pro called Con's words "rubbish" and Con said many insults one of them being "cause the fact that you don't know what are you talking about and all this unvailed[sic] information your probably getting it from the internet." This is unacceptable in DDO and one of the few examples of the misconduct committed by both participants.

S and G to Pro as Con said "Rought" and "Right" instead of "wrote" and "write" many times in the debate, not to mention other words he misspelled such as "unvailed" which should be written as "unveiled." He didn't even bother to do a simple spell-check.

Sources to Con as Pro offered a broken link which is already a biased link that attacks Islam, while Pro didn't offer any sources. Hence, no sources is better than untrusted sources that do not actually work as they are broken links.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by IslamAhmadiyya 3 years ago
IslamAhmadiyya
muslimnomoreTG2333Tied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: In my humble opinion, Pro is just spewing out lies and doesn't bring in any legitimate proof whatsoever. I myself would debate Pro if he is up to the challenge.
Vote Placed by NiqashMotawadi3 3 years ago
NiqashMotawadi3
muslimnomoreTG2333Tied
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Total points awarded:42 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments. Posted twice as first attempt caused a server error.