The Instigator
tejretics
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Subutai
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Music Battle

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Post Voting Period
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after 3 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 1/24/2016 Category: Arts
Updated: 10 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,037 times Debate No: 85473
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (14)
Votes (3)

 

tejretics

Pro

This is a "music battle," where each debater puts their selected songs or pieces of music, and the judges post RFD's on who has the the most beautiful music. There must only be one piece/song per round, and debaters are free to say a few words on why they think their song is great. Debaters are also welcome to comment on why they like/dislike their opponent's piece, or anything relating to their opponent's pieces. In each round (except this one), debaters must (1) post a link to their song, (2) name the song and its artist, and (3) if they want to, comment on the songs.

Votes in this debate should not give any points to either side -- judges must only provide RFD's, without actually allotting points against "who do you think won the debate?"

First round is acceptance.
Subutai

Con

I accept. This looks fun.
Debate Round No. 1
tejretics

Pro

Thanks for accepting, Subutai. I hope this will be fun.

Love is a deep and beautiful emotion. The power of love lies in nurturing, in compassion for fellow creatures. The interpersonal affection that hinges love together is powerful, and causes pleasure. The social species that we are, humans crave pleasure. And that pleasure is best gained through interpersonal affection. Affection towards someone else, or compassion, will bring one great pleasure, and reduce one's suffering. I've gone through many depressing stages in my life, stages that have been withstood merely due to the pleasure of being greeted by my companion (a dog), and the warm affection shown to me by my parents and close friends. E.E. Cummings wrote, "Love is the whole and more than all."

That's why my song today expresses great beauty and significance, and has a perfect net of emotions all tangled together, seemingly loose and chaotic, yet expressing a radiance from within. Yanni's "Felitsa," about his late mother Felitsa Chryssomallis, is that song.

https://www.youtube.com...

It's so clear that Yanni brings every ounce of emotion he can gather into the song. Playing any instrument isn't something mechanical, with a fixed structure. It's something that allows for the free flow of oneself into one's body. I've played the piano and violin before, and I know this -- to have true skill with either instrument, you should be able to exercise every bit of one's body and one's mind. Playing a piano, for instance, isn't just about the movements of fingers. It's about every touch upon a key being light, and slow movements as one finds a rhythm. And Yanni brings that rhythm. The serene smile on his face reflects the happiness that lies in sweet reminiscence of his mother, alongside the hint of sadness at her passing.

Yanni is truly skilled, and the song conveys every bit of that complex mixture of emotions, alongside the power of love, within its exceptional music. That's why it's my song for Round 2.
Subutai

Con

That was a very good song. I'd never heard of Yanni or listened to any of his work before, but I'm impressed with the liquidity with which he can play the piano.

My piece is in a very similar vein to Tej's. It is the adagietto from Mahler's 5th symphony. His most famous work, it is an extremely powerful piece steeped in the beauties of chromaticism. Written as a love piece to his wife, it was accompanied by a poem in German:

Wie ich dich liebe, Du meine Sonne,
ich kann mit Worten Dir's nicht sagen.
Nur meine Sehnsucht kann ich Dir klagen und meine Liebe.

(How much I love you, you my sun,
I cannot tell you that with words.
I can only lament to you my longing and love.)

While Mahler intended this piece to be played at a moderate pace (it was supposed to be a happy love piece), I much prefer it when it is played slower. It sounds much more melancholy that way. As I said earlier, while the piece is supposed to be in the key of C-sharp minor, it is heavily chromatic. The piece was scored only for strings and a harp. While I'm generally not moved by much, whenever I listen to this piece, I am overcome by a sense of undeniable beauty. The chromaticism, timbre, and tempo are powerful.
Debate Round No. 2
tejretics

Pro

Thanks, Subutai -- that was a great song.

My next song: https://www.youtube.com...

My song this time is called "Not As We," by Alanis Morrisette. It's of an entirely different theme, and has lyrics. I like this song because it came to me at a hard time in my life. Listening to this song actually gave me some cure to the sadness I felt at having lost someone close to me. The song reverberates of contemplation after losing a loved one. But what makes it so special to me is the meaning of the song when it premiered on the medical drama "House," in the episode "97 Seconds." In the episode, Dr. Gregory House comes across a clinic patient who's had a near death experience and has had the "best 97 seconds of his life." House is skeptical, and contemplates putting his life at risk for the same reason. At the same time, he contemplates if his life has had any worth to it, and this song plays in the background.

This song was the inspiration for me to argue against God's existence on a platform like this. It inspired me to get a grip with my life. That's why I like it.
Subutai

Con

That was an interesting song. I felt emotions of sadness and contentment at the same time.

My next song is "Watermelon in Easter Hay" by Frank Zappa. Zappa was a chronically interesting musician. At at least some point in his life, he has played blues, doo-wop, experimental rock, musique concrete, jazz fusion, comedy rock, 20th century classical, and electronic, along with parodies of psychedelic rock, disco, and 80's pop. He wrote two rock operas as well. As you can imagine, his music was often very weird. It was also often discordiant and chaotic.

The album this song came off of, Joe's Garage (one of Zappa's rock operas), while not one of his weirded works, still has a strong discordiant theme. "The story is told by a character identified as the "Central Scrutinizer" narrating the story of Joe, an average adolescent male, who forms a garage rock band, has unsatisfying relationships with women, gives all of his money to a government assisted and insincere religion, explores sexual activities with appliances, and is imprisoned. After being released from prison into a dystopian society in which music itself has been criminalized, he lapses into insanity."[1]

This song represents one of his lapses into insanity. He dreams of imaginary songs and guitar solos. It's one of Zappa's most beautiful guitar solos (and he wrote many guitar solos), and I'd consider it to be one of the most beautiful ever composed. It is one of the most beautiful moments in rock history.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org...

Debate Round No. 3
tejretics

Pro

That was quite interesting. The song really felt like an auditory hallucination, and was a good one, though it's higher pitches were painful to hear. https://www.youtube.com...

My next song is Rickie Lee Jones' "On Saturday Afternoons in 1963," which talks about traveling back to one's childhood.

https://www.youtube.com...

"The most as you'll ever go
Is back where you used to know
If grown-ups could laugh this slow
Where as you watch the hour snow
Years may go by
And years may go by

So hold on to your special friend
Here, you'll need something to keep her in
Now you stay inside this foolish grin
Though any day your secrets end
Then again years may go by
And years may go by

You saved your own special friend
'Cause here you need something to hide her in
And you stay inside that foolish grin
When everyday now secrets end
Oh and then again years may go by
And years may go by

Years may go by
And years may go by."


The song's rhythmic tune and its lyrics talk about blissful reminiscence of childhood. It truly qualifies as "beautiful music," and was introduced to me early last year -- once more in a "House" scene, where Dr. House reminisces when he used to play golf. Now with a limp induced by a limb infarction in his quadriceps muscle, he imagines watching a game of lacrosse going on, and the song plays to display his reminiscence. It's an amazing moment that pushes nostalgia into you. I'd recommend listening to the whole song, because it's really brilliant. It talks about thinking of one's closest friend in those childhood times, and how the years have passed.
Subutai

Con

Your songs seem to have an impressive ability of making the listener feel melancholy longing. It's attempted often, but rarely successful. But in your cases, it is.

My next song is "It Was a Pleasure Then" by Nico. Both of my previous songs have been instrumentals (except for that short narrator introduction in the last one). I thought it was time for me to post one with vocals. This is in a bit of a different vein from the previous two. Nico's music, particularly this song and the two albums that succeeded it, treaded into waters previously never even approached. Her music was heavily influential to the female rock persona, particularly what would later become gothic rock. The instrumentation was sparse but very atmospheric, and Nico's vocals were a powerful exposition of Teutonic majesty.

This song specifically indicates the direction she was going to take in her next two albums. The rest of the album the song was on, Chelsea Girls, relied on a bit more of a non-experimental theme. Nico's voice spans a large portion of the accessable vocal frequency range, and her parts, particularly when she's not singing words, are glorious. The instrumentation, save Cale's viola (particularly around the 5 minute mark), are minimal as usual, but still add greatly to the song's nature.

Debate Round No. 4
tejretics

Pro

Thanks, Subutai.

My song this time is Civil Twilight's "Human," a very deep song about a dispassionate person feeling emotions for once.

https://www.youtube.com...

"There's one way out and no way in
Back to the beginning
There's one way back to home again
To where I feel forgiven

What is this I feel? Why is it so real?
What am I to say?

It's only love, it's only pain
It's only fear that runs through my veins
It's all the things you can't explain
That make us human

I am just an image of
Something so much greater
I am just a picture frame
I am not the painter

Where do I begin? Can I shed this skin?
What is this I feel within?

It's only love, it's only pain
It's only fear that runs through my veins
It's all the things you can't explain
That make us human, that make us human
That make us human

It's only love, it's only pain
It's only fear that runs through my veins
It's all the things you can't explain
That make us human, that make us human
That make us human, oh, that make us human."

It talks about an emotionless person -- a psychopath, almost -- who realizes he has emotions. He doesn't understand what he's feeling, and it's painful, but his realization that he no longer is a psychopath almost overpowers him. He realizes, for once, he's like every other human. He realizes there are things much greater than him, and he has to be reborn. He asks if he can shed this skin of his, and comes into realization that he's "just a picture frame . . . not the painter."
Subutai

Con

Thank you tejretics for this wonderful debate.

I saved the genre of progressive rock for my final song. I wasn't sure what to put initially, but I finally decided on the song "Firth of Fifth" by Genesis. A perfect exposition of progressive rock, it features keyboard, synthesizer, flute, and guitar solos, the former two built around the same theme, and the latter two built around another theme. The keyboard theme features 13/16 and 15/16 time signature. The guitar solo features violin-like guitar tones. In addition, the guitar solo is beautiful mastery.

The path is clear
Though no eyes can see
The course laid down long before.
And so with gods and men
The sheep remain inside their pen,
Though many times they've seen the way to leave.

He rides majestic
Past homes of men
Who care not or gaze with joy,
To see reflected there
The trees, the sky, the lily fair,
The scene of death is lying just below.

The mountain cuts off the town from view,
Like a cancer growth is removed by skill.
Let it be revealed.
A waterfall, his madrigal.
An inland sea, his symphony.

Undinal songs
Urge the sailors on
Till lured by sirens' cry.

Now as the river dissolves in sea,
So Neptune has claimed another soul.
And so with gods and men
The sheep remain inside their pen,
Until the Shepherd leads his flock away.

The sands of time were eroded by
The river of constant change.

The song's lyrics, while having an ambiguous meaning, still have a majestic quality to them, especially in the way Peter Gabriel sings them.
Debate Round No. 5
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Subutai 10 months ago
Subutai
It's a waste of everyone's time, including your own, to post stupid RFDs. I mean, this is a respectable debate, and all I ask is that people take their votes seriously. I guess I can't really force you to do so, but it's a bit disrespectful of you to do so. And you seem to agree with me that debate like this should not have points awarded, so I'm not exactly sure why you're protesting.
Posted by RainbowDash52 10 months ago
RainbowDash52
"What's wrong with a debate done without voters allocating points?"
There is nothing wrong with creating a debate where voters can't allocate points; just know people are allowed to post stupid RFD's without getting their vote removed when they can't allocate points.

"Why can't judges present a serious RFD without needing to allocate points? I've seen serious debates on this website done with that restriction as well."
Judges can cast serious RFD's on these debates of course, they just don't have to.

"How was this debate supposed to be judged? It's entirely arbitrary."
Exactly.
Posted by Subutai 10 months ago
Subutai
What's wrong with a debate done without voters allocating points? Why can't judges present a serious RFD without needing to allocate points? I've seen serious debates on this website done with that restriction as well. How was this debate supposed to be judged? It's entirely arbitrary.
Posted by RainbowDash52 10 months ago
RainbowDash52
@Subutai

Votes that do not assign points to either side are not moderated, and therefor since points are not being awarded, I can vote on absolutely any criteria I choose, and it will not be removed by moderation. If you want people to judge your debate seriously, you shouldn't ban people from awarding points. That was the point I was making.
Posted by Kilk1 10 months ago
Kilk1
@tejretics I apologize for contacting you through the Comments section, but I know no better method at the time under these circumstances. I hope that I will appear more professional from this point on.

As you may know, Varrack, once a Mormon, has become an agnostic. Because of this, I would like to find a qualified individual (or individuals, should it be a team debate) to represent the atheistic position in a debate over whether there is a God. There may be questions submitted for the debate by Varrack that each person (or team) is to answer. Would you consider accepting such a debate?
Posted by tejretics 10 months ago
tejretics
@Subutai

I'm pretty sure he was just kidding/trolling.
Posted by tejretics 10 months ago
tejretics
@famousdebater

Thanks a lot for the detailed RFD; I really appreciate it. Like you said, it's entirely subjective -- that's exactly why it's a no-point debate. It's up to the judge.
Posted by Subutai 10 months ago
Subutai
@RainbowDash52: That is an incredibly petty reason to discount this entire debate. There's surely one song you liked from the eight posted on this debate. Do you despise all music out of the context of MLP? Do you like the music you like solely because it was featured on MLP?
Posted by Subutai 10 months ago
Subutai
@famousdebater: Thanks for the detailed RFD! I must say that, while I enjoy climaxes as well, the theme of this music battle was beautiful music. Mahler's 5th symphony and Zappa's album Joe's Garage had a bunch of tense moments, but the pieces I posted were created for the sole purpose of expressing tension-less beauty in the context of broader, more conflicting piece.
Posted by famousdebater 10 months ago
famousdebater
Never mind, I only skimmed over R1.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Diqiucun_Cunmin 10 months ago
Diqiucun_Cunmin
tejreticsSubutai
Who won the debate:--
Reasons for voting decision: https://docs.google.com/document/d/15lqaGQI5ZKCXHXrl3Jj0LPaf_IKHN5h-68dnQLOI3Cc/edit
Vote Placed by RainbowDash52 10 months ago
RainbowDash52
tejreticsSubutai
Who won the debate:--
Reasons for voting decision: Rules state not to allocate points. Neither side posted an MLP song, so I declare both sides lost.
Vote Placed by famousdebater 10 months ago
famousdebater
tejreticsSubutai
Who won the debate:--
Reasons for voting decision: Would have voted Pro: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LzDDJo61xuJo8LScPUSVbWreMobBatmv75N-U2o0rlk/edit