The Instigator
Vitaminz1
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
brontoraptor
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Muslims are Victims of Hate and Terror

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/12/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 275 times Debate No: 93628
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
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Vitaminz1

Pro

I will be arguing that the religion of Islam DOES NOT represent ISIS and are victims of terror and hate.

- First round is for acceptence.
- Statistics and sources are fair game.
brontoraptor

Con

I accept. Good luck.
Debate Round No. 1
Vitaminz1

Pro

ISIS Does not represent the majority of Muslims:

  • There is a difference between a Muslim practicing his/her religion modestly and radically. They can follow their creators practices for word or follow in a modern and reasonable form. 87% of Muslims in the US are against ISIS and they are the ones who follow reasonably.

  • Same concepts for Christianity. Origins of Christianity and Islam both link to slavery, holy war, terrorism, and genocide. But a modern disciple to these religions could keep and show faith on a human level.


Who is a Victim to ISIS?

  • More than 90% of those killed by ISIS have been Muslim. ISIS believes following the Quran as if they were living while it was created. But the majority of Muslims worship a God and believe in peace. It is wrong to discriminate against a religion that has proven itself to be different than it’s radical group. This is especially wrong in a country that calls itself a follower of it’s Constitution which gives every American the right to worship any God they choose.


It’s not practical to hate against a religion:

  • Donald Trump has argued to ban Muslims from entering the US. How do you ban a thought from entering the US. A female, Muslim, immigrant, could just take off her hijab and say she's a Christian. Banning a religion does not seem practical.
brontoraptor

Con

Pro:
"87% of Muslims in the US are against ISIS and they are the ones who follow reasonably."

This might be a reasonable assessment if these variables weren't in the mix:

(Quran 17:64)
"And lead to destruction those whom you can with your seductive voice."

1)Taqiya

-An Islamic juridical term whose shifting meaning relates to when a Muslim is allowed, under Sharia law, to lie to further the power of Islam.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

2)Kitman

-consisting of the art of making ambiguous statements, paying lip-service to authority while reserving personal opposition, in a kind of political camouflage or reservatio mentalis.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

3)Maruna

- It literally means "stealth" or "flexibility." It is far worse than"taqiya,"since it sanctions all prohibitions that block Muslim interests, even blasphemous ones.Muruna"allows Muslims to sow division and confusion in the Western world.

Taqiyya is lying. Lying is permitted in Islam when it is used to deceive the enemy or to protect yourself against the infidels. Thus, normative Islam says that duping the enemy is a major facet of jihad.

https://pjmedia.com...

http://www.meforum.org...

---

(Walid Shoebat, former Muslim explains Maruna if interested-video)

http://m.therightscoop.com...

---

"For war is deceit."
-Prophet Muhammed

The Prophet (pbuh)said: "War is deceit." (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3029; Muslim, 58)

(Quran 8:57)
"So if you gain the mastery over them in war, punish them severely in order to disperse those who are behind them, so that they may learn a lesson ".

---

5)Tawriya

-Creative lying to the infidel.

http://www.commdiginews.com...

(Quran 68:44)
We shall punish them gradually from directions they perceive not.

---

The Quran makes it clear that Islam is not about universal brotherhood, but about the brotherhood of believers:

(Quran 49:10)
"The Believers are but a single Brotherhood."

(Quran 2:221)
"A believing slave is superior to an unbeliever."

(Quran 48:29)
Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are severe against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves."

(4:144)
O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?

(4:101)
"For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."

(25:52)
"Listen not to the unbelievers, but strive, Jihad, against them with the utmost strenuousness."

(8:39)
And fight them until there is no more ftna (unbelief, worshipping others beside Allah), and religion is all for Allah."

---

(Quran 33:27)
"And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things."

---

Why does ISIS love to cut peoples' heads off? Muhammed commanded them to.

"Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment." (Quran 8:12-13)

"When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, "I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers" hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them!""
(8:12)

"And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying."
(2:191)

"We will cast into the hearts of the unbelievers terror, for that they have associated with Allah that for which He sent down never authority; their lodging shall be the Fire; evil is the lodging of the evildoers."
(3:151)

"This is the recompense of those who fight against Allah and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth, to do corruption there: they shall be slaughtered, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall alternately be struck off."
(5:33)

---

What is the goal of Islam?

"Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah"s entirely."
(Quran 8:39)

---

Why so many Muslim suicide bombers?

Paradise is automaticallypromised to those who kill infidels and/or are killed trying to kill infidels. It is the only guarantee to Jannah(Heaven).

"Allah has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of Allah; they kill, and are killed; that is a promise binding upon Allah in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Koran; and who fulfils his covenant truer than Allah? So rejoice in the bargain you have made with Him; that is the mighty triumph."
(9:111)

And this is why in 2015, 450 out of 452 suicide bombers were Islamic.

http://www.examiner.com...
Debate Round No. 2
Vitaminz1

Pro

Con's Quotes:

* "Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment." (Quran 8:12-13)

* "When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, "I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers" hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them!""
(8:12)

* "And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying."
(2:191)




In these quotes, The Quran is describing the punishments for violating Sharia Law. I am against violence and not arguing for it.


Islamic laws on the other hand, prove absolutely no violence:

* Qur’an 6:151 says, “and do not kill a soul that God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.” - Anti Terror and Murder

* “There is no compulsion in religion. The right way has become distinct from error.” (-The Cow, 2:256). - Muslims are forbidden from imposing Islam on others

* “But if the enemies incline towards peace, do you also incline towards peace. And trust in God! For He is the one who hears and knows all things.” (8:61)

* "Thus, if they let you be, and do not make war on you, and offer you peace, God does not allow you to harm them" (4: 90).






Con says that Islam is the cause of terrorism but that is not true at all.

There is very little religion involved in terrorism. “Less Than 2 Percent Of Terrorist Attacks In The E.U. Are Religiously Motivated”

http://thinkprogress.org...

In the US, 94% of terror attacks in recent years were carried out by non-Muslims.
https://www.fbi.gov...



s://lh3.googleusercontent.com...; alt="" width="624" height="312" />



The Hatred Muslims Do Not Deserve
Google Search, “Hatred against Muslims”. https://www.google.com...; You will find long lists of news reports of hate crimes against Muslims. @Con, do you think these crimes are justifed? Islam is a religion and anyone can be believe in Allah and automaticly be a Muslim. ISIS does not represent Muslims, just like the Orlando Pulse shooter does not represent gun owners. Discrimination against the religion of Islam is no differant than hating blacks, LGBT, or Jews.
brontoraptor

Con

Pro:
"Qur"an 6:151 says, "and do not kill a soul that God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully." - Anti Terror and Murder"

This is an issue of "abrogation". Are there nice things in the Sunna, Quran, and Hadith? Sure. But one must know the nature of Islam and abrogation.

Proponents of Islamic tolerance point to a number of Quranic verses which admonish violence and advocate peace, tolerance, and compromise.

But the Quran is unique among sacred scriptures in accepting a doctrine of abrogation in which later pronouncements of the Prophet declare null and void his earlier pronouncements.

Muslims divide the Quran into suras revealed by Muhammad in Mecca when his community of followers was weak and more inclined to compromise, and those revealed in Medina, where Muhammad's strength grew. Medina suras, by means of abrogation always trump pre-Medina suras.

-----

http://www.meforum.org...

http://www.frontpagemag.com...

-----

Pro:
"There is very little religion involved in terrorism. "Less Than 2 Percent Of Terrorist Attacks In The E.U. Are Religiously Motivated"

True. The EU is also heavily nonmuslim and has minimal terror attacks in the first place.

Pro:
"In the US, 94% of terror attacks in recent years were carried out by non-Muslims"

This is a false dichotomy by ommission. 1% of the U.S. population are Muslims. It's like a cancer patient saying "most of my cells are not cancerous, thus cancer cells are not my body's problem."

The Middle East, which is heavily Islamic has more terrorism than any other region on Earth, and it isn't even close.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

The top 5 from among the list are Iraq, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Pakistan, and Syria. Approximately 78% of global terrorism related deaths occurred in these five countries alone. And these numbers do not include other Islamic countries or Islamic inspired terrorist attacks in the West.

www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-global-terrorism-index-countries-most-affected-by-terrorist-attacks.html

-----

Pro:
"Discrimination against the religion of Islam is no differant than hating blacks, LGBT, or Jews."

There is a difference between racial discrimination and common sense discernment of a dangerous ideology. Naziism was a dangerous ideology. Were all Nazis dangerous? Probably not. Was Naziism dangerous? Absolutely. Why does Islamic ideology get a pass, but Naziism does not?

If you want reality 101 look at Naziism as your warning call. We can learn from history.

"Demoralize the enemy from within by surprise, terror, sabotage, assassination. This is the war of the future."
-Adolf Hitler

mobile.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/adolfhitle387424.html

What inspired Hitler?

"Had Charles Martel not been victorious at Poitiers -already, you see, the world had already fallen into the hands of the Jews, so gutless a thing Christianity! -then we should in all probability have been converted to Mohammedanism, that cult which glorifies the heroism and which opens up the seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone. Then the Germanic races would have conquered the world. Christianity alone prevented them from doing so."
-Adolph Hitler

Notice he is oddly familiar with Islamic concepts and the seventh heaven. Notice he was antisematic. Someone got a few too many ideas from the Quran.

https://wikiislam.net...

-----

Hitler met with the Grand Mufti, Amin al-Husseini during WWII and was given ideas and 30,000 Islamic soldiers who fought in the Nazi SS.

http://www.worldfuturefund.org...

Naziism was Islam minus god. Naziism with a god and 1.7 billion adherants? All hell will break loose one day. Not if, but when. If certain events happen, all Muslims worldwide are called to fight or face hell-fire.

Islam is Naziism with a God- short video for those interested.

http://youtu.be...

-----

Walid Shoebat, ex Muslim--
"Although the word Jihad standing by itself means "struggle," what Westerners need to focus on when reading the Hadith regarding Mohammed"s Jihad is similar to the focus needed when reading Mein Kampf by Adolph Hitler."

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, ex Muslim--
"If we do in fact support diversity, women"s rights, and gay rights, then we cannot in good conscience give Islam a free pass on the grounds of multicultural sensitivity."

Ayaan Hirsi Ali (about 9/11)
"It was not a lunatic fringe who felt this way about America and the West. I knew that a vast mass of Muslims would see the attacks as justified retaliation against the infidel enemies of Islam."

"Liberals must stop mincing words and accept the truth of Islam, or else, it is my belief, that there will be eventually a global reaction led by people for whom violence is always justifiable and the ensuing war will be the worst the world has ever seen."
-Sara Haider, ex Muslim
Debate Round No. 3
Vitaminz1

Pro

I don't have many more arguments so I"ll rebut the Nazi comparison.


You can not compare Nazi's with ISIS.

Lets say a German in the 1930s held views of anti-capitalism and anti-business. He supported his political ideology but believed in peace and 0 violence towards the Jews. Is his views wrong because of other Germans with simulate views are violent.

You can not hold prejudice against Muslims because of the acts of terrorists in another nation. You can follow the religion of Islam without being cruel and there is just as much violence as their is peace in the Queran.



brontoraptor

Con

Pro:
"You can not hold prejudice against Muslims because of the acts of terrorists in another nation."

"When I was in Holland, the idea was, all cultures are equal and all are to be preserved. My idea was, no, all humans are equal, but not all cultures are equal."
-Ayaan Hirsi Ali

---

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, ex Muslim woman-

"Why are Muslims being "preserved" in some time capsule of centuries gone by? Why is it okay that we continue to live in a world where our women are compared to candy waiting to be consumed? Why is it okay for women of the rest of the world to fight for freedom and equality while we are told to cover our shameful bodies?"

"Can"t you see that we are being held back from joining this elite club known as the 21st century? Noble liberals like yourself always stand up for the misrepresented Muslims and stand against the Islamophobes, which is great but who stands in my corner and for the others who feel oppressed by the religion? Every time we raise our voices, one of us is killed or threatened. .".". What you did by screaming "racist!" was shut down a conversation that many of us have been waiting to have. You helped those who wish to deny there are issues, deny them!"

" What is so wrong with wanting to step into the current century? There should be no shame. There is no denying that violence, misogyny and homophobia exist in all religious texts, but Islam is the only religion that is adhered to so literally, to this day."

"In your culture you have the luxury of calling such literalists "crazies."" In my culture, such values are upheld by more people than we realise. Many will try to deny it, but please hear me when I say that these are not fringe values."

"It is apparent in the lacking numbers of Muslims willing to speak out against the archaic Shariah law. The punishment for blasphemy and apostasy, etc, are tools of oppression. Why are they not addressed even by the peaceful folk who aren"t fanatical, who just want to have some sandwiches and pray five times a day? Where are the Muslim protestors against blasphemy laws/apostasy? Where are the Muslims who take a stand against harsh interpretation of Shariah?"

---

Walid Shoebat, ex Muslim-

"What the West does not understand about Islamism is that Jihad is very systematic. It has stages. If Muslims have the upper hand, then Jihad is waged by force. If Muslims do not have the upper hand, then Jihad is waged through financial and political means. Since Muslims do not have the upper hand in America or Europe, they talk about peace in front of you while supporting Hamas and Hezbollah in the back room. The whole idea of Islam being a peaceful religion emanates from the silent stage of Jihad."

"To this very day, Muslims do not view peace treaties in the same way that most people understand a "peace-treaty." To the Muslim mind, treaties are not binding agreements, but rather opportunities to grow stronger or buy time or to appear peaceful while preparing for war. But make no mistake, making peace treaties with the infidels simply for the sake of peace is never the ultimate goal. The only goal of Islam is victory over the whole world."

"Westerners do not understand that when it comes to the Muslim world, even the most "moderate" of Muslims, if they are religious, all believe in the coming of the Mahdi and the establishment of the Caliphate to rule the entire Globe by changing world laws to adapt the Islamic Sharia. The coming of the Mahdi to religious Muslims is as holy of a belief as the coming of Messiah is to Christians and Jews."

*The Mahdi is the Islamic "messiah" who comes to destroy all nonmuslims. When Muslims see certain "signs" they are to all join and fight the nonmuslim world to usher in the coming of the Mahdi. It is a deadly apocalyptical viewpoint, which unlike the Christian apocalyptic view is not ushered in by God, but by Muslims themselves. If God does not exist, the Christian "apocalypse" is no threat. The Muslim "apocalypse" is a threat whether God exists or not.

*

"In Saudi Arabia, among other countries, Muslims are not free to convert to Christianity, and Christians are not free to practice their faith. The Koran is not a rights-respecting document."
-Ibn Warraq, ex Muslim

---

According to Middle Eastern scholar Daniel Pipes, since 9/11, there have been 27,000 attacks globally connected to Islam. This number certainly dwarfs all other terrorist attacks worldwide by non-Islamic groups.

http://www.danielpipes.org...

http://www.danielpipes.org...

---

96% of those on the FBI terrorist watch list are Muslims. This is a glaring stat. Less than 1% of the American population are Muslim.

http://www.frontpagemag.com...

---

Sunni Muslim terrorists committed 70%of the terrorist murders in the world in 2011.

cnsnews.com/news/article/sunni-muslim-extremists-committed-70-terrorist-murders-2011
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by vi_spex 7 months ago
vi_spex
oh the infidels they must terrorize and kill hate them.. how sad
Posted by Vitaminz1 7 months ago
Vitaminz1
Please accept then
Posted by bballcrook21 7 months ago
bballcrook21
Lol Moooslims create hate and terror
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