The Instigator
chainmachine
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Phoenix.Wright
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points

Muslims being allowed to stay in France

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Phoenix.Wright
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/29/2012 Category: Society
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 579 times Debate No: 21607
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (8)
Votes (2)

 

chainmachine

Con

I would like an opponent to argue this topic. First round is opening arguments, my opponent cannot refute my argument.

Islamic immigration into France has affected the people, culture, and religion and caused negative things for original population.
Phoenix.Wright

Pro

This is an interesting debate topic that my opponent proposed and a very strong resolution at that. He didn't say muslims should be paid more attention to or that they should kept a close eye on, he is saying that the entire muslim population of France should leave the country. There are many problems with this idea my opponent has and I hope I can point out the many flaws in it.

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Contention #1 Muslims make up a huge portion of the population in France and as such would cause economic repercussions if they were deported

Population and statistics of muslims in France

This is one major reason not to deport or remove the entire Muslim population of France. There are two main methods that the government employs in order to gather this information since there is a law in France that doesn't allow a census on religious beliefs. There are calculated predictions based on people who outwardly declare they are muslim and on geographical origins [1]. From these findings Muslims are 5-6 million of central France [1]. Muslims make up 5-10% of the religion in France [2].

Economic consequences

As you may already know when a large portion of a population declines this has economic repercussions. As Robert P . Hagemann and Giuseppe Nicoletti write in their report on the correlation of the economy and population:


“One of the most obvious channels through which population ageing will affect industrialized economies is via significant alterations to the size and structure of the working age population. In fact, the effect of population ageing on economic growth and, ultimately, on welfare, operates to a great extent through its consequences for the labour market.” [3]

Contention #2 Deporting an entire religion of people would be damaging to France's values

The west (France) has some values that are inclusive and liberal and deporting all Muslims from France would be damaging to this. Pluralism is one of the values that the west often praises itself for. Freedom of religion, race and sexuality are values that are important to the west. What France stands for would become damaged as a result of this deportation and would make France and the west seem hypocritical. France has already banned the burqa which has absolutely no solid basis and simply violates human rights and furthers France's goal of secularization. To ban Muslims from France would put into question, Does France stand for human liberties and freedoms? Joanna Aniel Bidar writes in her article on the burqa ban (imagine if it was on deportation):

If the debate is on security and reasserting secularist values, then these should not trample on the liberties of dress codes.” [4]

Contention # 3 There are no solid reasons to deport specifically muslims from France

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Sources

http://plus.lefigaro.fr... [1]

https://www.cia.gov... [2]

http://www.oecd.org... [3]

http://english.pravda.ru... [4]

Debate Round No. 1
chainmachine

Con

I thank my opponent for his response.

CULTURAL DAMAGE

.I As more and more mosques and other Muslim centers of culture are built in French cities, historical sites and cultures mix together taking away from centuries of rich French culture.

.II As the Muslim population rises and takes up more and more space, the French government must accommodate this. For a group of recently immigrated foreigners who don't typically get college educations and force hardworking native Frenchmen and women to compete for their jobs and local business that them and their ancestors have held for decades.

TERROISM

I. Not only do Muslims stick together in tight communities they harass and sometimes attack native French populations. In response xenophobic acts are committed causing unnessarcy violence when they didn't belong in a western European country in the first place. I never hear of Catholic French men in Libya.
Phoenix.Wright

Pro

My opponent has not responded to my opening arguments so I extend them.

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Rebuttals


#1 Cultural Damage

My opponent's first argument doesn't have much bearing on the case at hand. The reason is we are talking about Muslims who follow religion. Religion and culture are simply two different things. While it is completely true that Islam impacts culture, there is no such thing as one Islamic culture. Each Muslim country varies with regard to its culture. My opponent says that Muslim centers and mosques are being built in the place of historical sites which is hard to believe. I doubt that they would bring down places such as The Louvre, Eiffel tower, and Georges Pompidou centre for a mosque, my opponent needs to show some evidence for his claims.

My opponent then says that Muslims are stealing native Frenchmen's jobs. My opponent presumes that native Frenchmen are more special or of a higher status then muslims which is completely false. Everybody is equal in France and whoever has better credentials and works harder gets the jobs plain and simple. These are some basic laws in the constitution of France so that argument is useless.


#2 Terrorism

My opponent would be suprised to hear that terrorism in the U.K is not predominantly performed by Muslims. Terroristic acts in the U.K are performed mostly by a radical terrorist organization called IRA, Irish Republican Army which is a catholic terrorist group.A huge double standard employed by the media is to never call the many terrorist acts they perform, Catholic terrorist or even terrorist acts. However, when one Muslim group performs a terrorist act it is propagated and blown to huge proportions. If you ask a Tony Blair (Man who hates Islam and Muslims) who is a bigger threat Muslim terrorists or other terrorists, he will tell you Muslims which is absurd if one looks at the numerous terrorist attacks they did. [1][2][3][4][5][6][7]


Sources

http://www.guardian.co.uk... [1]

http://news.bbc.co.uk... [2]

http://news.bbc.co.uk... [3]

De Baróid, Ciarán (2000). Ballymurphy And The Irish War. Pluto Press. p. 325.ISBN 0-7453-1509-7 [4]

http://news.bbc.co.uk... [5]

http://www.flickr.com... [6]

http://news.bbc.co.uk... [7]

Debate Round No. 2
chainmachine

Con

chainmachine forfeited this round.
Phoenix.Wright

Pro



My opponent has forfeited the round and hasn't responded to my rebuttals nor my opening arguments so I extend them both
Debate Round No. 3
chainmachine

Con

chainmachine forfeited this round.
Phoenix.Wright

Pro

My opponent has forfeited again, Extend my arguments and Rebuttals
Debate Round No. 4
chainmachine

Con

chainmachine forfeited this round.
Phoenix.Wright

Pro

My opponent has forfeited again, Extend my arguments and rebuttals. Vote Pro
Debate Round No. 5
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Phoenix.Wright 2 years ago
Phoenix.Wright
theres a major problem with that because most countries need immigration in order to keep there populations higher so that the economy is stable/strengthens. To remove everyone that isn't a descendant of that country would reduce the population greatly. One great example is Canada, they really needed the immigration....
Posted by Alarbi 2 years ago
Alarbi
I agree with chainmachine, immigration is the mother of all problems, not only in France but everywhere. We should establish a sort of international organisation under UN to take back all Muslims to North Africa and all white people stemming from Europe out of America and back to Europe, all Spaniards out of South America and all communists back to Germany…
Posted by chainmachine 2 years ago
chainmachine
Arrogance won't help you.
Posted by Phoenix.Wright 2 years ago
Phoenix.Wright
It's suprising you would want an entire people of a religion to leave a country. This is going to be an easy win for me unless you have some crazy super argument up your sleeve.
Posted by chainmachine 2 years ago
chainmachine
I usually do not care at all about immigration but i read an article in NAT GEO about Marseille which lead me to want to debate this.
Posted by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
ph I see illegal immigration
Posted by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
wtf
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Nur-Ab-Sal 2 years ago
Nur-Ab-Sal
chainmachinePhoenix.WrightTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro gets conduct for the forfeit, gets convincing arguments for obvious reasons, and was the only one to use a source.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
chainmachinePhoenix.WrightTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: FF