The Instigator
acetraveler
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Lexicaholic
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

My Application Form is good enough to make me pass the test to join IDS.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/24/2009 Category: Education
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,049 times Debate No: 9295
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (18)
Votes (1)

 

acetraveler

Pro

Kyunghee University : http://www.kyunghee.edu...(http://www.khu.ac.kr...)
IDS : http://club.cyworld.com...

Kyunghee University have a English debate club named IDS. This club is a 69th ranker in the world. The club members can participate national and international English debate Championships. I eagerly want to join this club to participate World University Debate Championship. So I had a interview to join this club in May. But I couldn't join this club. The next interview is planned in september by this club. I need help my application form, and my interview. So, my opponent should try to prove my application form has many weaknesses to fail to join this club, and I try to prove my application form is good enough to join this club. I should have corrected by my opponent to join this club. I hope my opponent sharply point out my weakness as many as possible. But if my opponent is not good enough to breakthrough my argument, he or she may lost in this debate. And if my opponent forfeit more than 1 round, I can try this debate again to find other proper opponent.
Current IDS members are mostly juniors and seniors in Kyunghee University. According to my information, they are very busy to get a good grade and a job. So they cannot practice debate often and regularly. Although, they are a 69th ranker in the world according to '2009 world rankings'. (http://www.debating.net..., http://spreadsheets.google.com...)
'Application Form' is under this sentence. Please read 'Application Form' and point out the weakness. I'll wait.

Application Form

Name:
Gender:male
Date of Birth:
Major:history
Grade:freshmen
Mobile:

[Questions]
1. Have you lived abroad? If YES, please specify where and for how long.
No.

2. How is your English ability?
High. First, I enjoy reading subtitles of 'Friends(USA soap opera)' at least 4 times faster than original playing speed of the videos. And I can practice fast-listening and turn down-listening(ex:Turn down the radio) by catching faster and faster to the unlimited speed, more and more quiet speech to the next to soundless condition.
Second, I debate in English debate sites. For example, I debate in www.debate.org more than 10 times, and I have more than 60 posts in www.idebate.org. And I know many other English debate sites and English debate video sites. You said your debate level is higher than online debaters in the reception room. So you told me you don't need to use online debate sites. But I tell you I already met Ph.D Harish.K.Thakur in the www.idebate.org by competing Nuclear prohibiting debate. He is a political scientist and a poet. And I can tell you again www.debate.org is the best place for practicing World University Debate Championship because the people and the environment in the site is helpful for you.
Third, I was a participant in World Civic Youth Forum 2009(http://www.wcyf2009.org...). Although I was not a panel, but I could listen panels' speech and question. And I met 2 Chinese friends in there and I was their tour guide in Korea 3 days. They are a university students major in international politics. I couldn't speak Chinese, so I guided them by using English. They even slept in my house in 2 night. And they saw so many things in Seoul, Korea by following my guide. I'll tell you in the reception room.
Because of these reasons, I think my English is high although I didn't test TOEIC and TOEFL.
TOEIC score (if available) :

3. Please write your plan and vision in IDS. (within 200 words)
IDS is the 69th world ranker according to '2009 world Rankings' in http://www.debating.net.... I studied very hard for myself to overcome strong opponents around the world, and I contribute this club to win 'World University Debating championship' by using my creative and sincere heart. I'll give you 3 examples.

First, fast-reading : I can read the scripts in the 'Friends(USA soap opera)' 16 times faster than original speed. I carried 13 books from Seoul to Chungju to prepare seminar in 'the pupil of daybreak'(That is another debate club in Kyunghee University. But it is not a English debate club. Although IDS members don't need this explanation but online debaters need this.).

Second, fast-listening. We can record and check practicing debate by using voice recorder and digital camera. And we can manipulate the play speed faster and faster to the unlimited playing speed.

Third, fast-writing : By using shorthand program, we can practice debate in many online debate sites like www.debate.org more than our opponents.

By using these measures, I certain we can listen our opponents' arguments like slow motion and we can take the advantage in the debate contest. Because our speaking can contain more contents. Our speaking can show more passion. Finally, Our speaking can give us win.

*For the next step, you will be scheduled for an interview.
The time and place for interview will be notified through text message.
YES, please write and post your application form in this board. Thanks.

P.S. : How can you pointing out my application form?
In the IDS site, there are no information how I can pass interview in IDS. I can just tell my previous interview in the May, 1st semester.
I brought my application form(not the same content, but the same format) to the reception room on the day for interview. Interviewers saw my application form and they gave me questions. I recall and create the questions as much as I can.
First, we are university students and we are more skillful than various online debaters. I guess online debate sites cannot be suitable place for training debate. Don't you?
Second, you have no score in toeic or toefl. That means your English was not verified officially. How can you manage to our activities and help us to win 'World University Debate Championships'?
Third, you have not completed military service yet. What is your plan to manage this problem for not bothering your club activities?

They questioned me similar things like upper questions. You can point out 'anything', and 'everything' you can imagine. If the argument is proper for justified 'The application form isn't good enough to make me join to IDS', any arguments could be fine.
Lexicaholic

Con

Dear sir:

Thank you for your interest in our program. Unfortunately, it is my duty to inform you that you will not be accepted into the IDS program this year.

Our review staff has analyzed your application and determined that it does not meet our quality standards. Specifically:

1. You have failed to properly fill out the form, having left the name and phone number section blank.
2. You have not lived in an English speaking country or tested for English fluency. We have no way of ascertaining your English language skills without some official document certifying a high degree of competence in English.
3. You have mentioned many online debate sites you attend. Online debates are exchanges in text format. IDS debates are matters of verbal exchanges. Your competence in one area does not assure us of your competence in the other.
4. Even if it did, your win-loss ratio on debate.org would seem to suggest that you are not a top tier debater on that site. Consequently, we find that this site is insufficient recommendation for our review purposes.
5. "Friends" is inappropriate material for developing English language skills. The characters in "Friends" use quirky phrases and expressions that can mislead an English language student. We are not impressed by you use of "Friends" in learning the English language.

Moreover, you have at times confused past, present and future tense. Please review these tenses and their forms here: http://leo.stcloudstate.edu...

Thank you for your interest in our program. We wish you all the best during your time here at Kyunghee University. Regrettably, we do not presently anticipate that much of it will be spent with us.

Sincerely,

Lexicaholic
IDS President
Debate Round No. 1
acetraveler

Pro

Mr. president, You should reconsider your decision because my strength is over my weakness for joining IDS.
I already give you very creative measures to win WUDC although I had no activities in IDS in the 1st semester. If you permit my joining IDS, you can take more useful measures from me. I quote my vision from 1 round.

'First, fast-reading : I can read the scripts in the 'Friends(USA soap opera)' 16 times faster than original speed. I carried 13 books from Seoul to Chungju to prepare seminar in 'the pupil of daybreak'(That is another debate club in Kyunghee University. But it is not a English debate club. Although IDS members don't need this explanation but online debaters need this.).
Second, fast-listening. We can record and check practicing debate by using voice recorder and digital camera. And we can manipulate the play speed faster and faster to the unlimited playing speed.
Third, fast-writing : By using shorthand program, we can practice debate in many online debate sites like www.debate.org more than our opponents.
By using these measures, I certain we can listen our opponents' arguments like slow motion and we can take the advantage in the debate contest. Because our speaking can contain more contents. Our speaking can show more passion. Finally, Our speaking can give us win.'

If I can give you these useful measures although I had no activities in IDS, I can give you more useful measures by using my creative mind when I am a member of IDS.

Then, I'll give you my refutation against your arguments.

1st, I had not 'failed' to properly fill out the form. I had left the name, phone number and Date of Birth on purpose. As I told you in 'member comments', not only you and IDS members can see my application form, and many other unknown people can see my application form. I can give you completed document when you request me by using mail or other measures.(Not you, Lexicaholic. I'll give real IDS president my application form.) But, in this case, it is obvious to my good sense because I know what is the proper situation to reveal my crucial information or not.

2nd, you can even judge my English language skills by watching my debates in www.debate.org.
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

And, even if I assume I have not enough English language skills, I already gave you 'Speed-reading', 'Speed-listening', and 'Speed-writing'. Shorthand programs for helping 'Speed writing' and PowerDVD for watching more than 2 times faster than original speed are already existed. But, I found out new ways of using these things. It is the EVIDENCE TO PROVE MY CREATIVITY. And, THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH. I already give you very creative measures to win WUDC based on reasonable principles. That means if current IDS members use my ideas, you can surpass 'Native speakers' because you have UPPER MEANS THAN 'NATIVE SPEAKERS'. But, if you take other applicants because 'They have more English language skills than you', DO THEY REALLY CAN HELP YOU TO SURPASS NATIVE SPEAKERS? NO. THERE ENGLISH LEVEL HAVE NO EVIDENCE TO SURPASS NATIVE SPEAKERS BECAUSE NATIVE SPEAKERS CAN ALWAYS HAVE ADVANTAGE RELATED TO 'STUDYING ENGLISH' FROM THEIR LANGUAGE ENVIORNMENT.

3rd, If I want to win debate, I need more 'Reading' books that contain evidence, and more 'Watching' Debate Videos that contain same things. That means 'Reading' and 'Listening' is the common thing to prepare 'online debate' and 'IDS debate'. And the difference is the one is using 'Speaking', and the other is using 'Writing'. But, if you want to speak, you should recall 'texts' in your brain. And if you can write something, you can tell same thing because you already have 'contents' for giving other people.

And, IDS members are very busy so you cannot practice debate often and regularly.(Please see my information in round 1) By using online debate, you can practice more than before. And I already give you alternative how we can practice 'verbal exchanges' in 'member comments.'.

4th, 'win-loss ratio' is just partial standard to measure my level. For example, if you use the standard, you should admit 'brian_eggleston(158 debates, 89 wins, 62 lost, win ratio : 58.94%)' have lower debate level than 'Rumsy(4 debate 4 wins, win ratio 100%). And as I remembered, 'Logical-Master(current 1st ranker in this site)' have The time when he did more than 100 debates but his win-loss ratio' was approximately 20%. So, The proper standard is the 'Percentile'. Although 'percentile' also shows my weak position in www.debate.org. But, can your members surpass my level in www.debate.org? I cannot win 4 debates because I forfeit some rounds in the debates basically. Your members cannot even practice your own debate often and regularly.(see round 1.) I took the information from one of your members. And doing 14 debates need to spend will, skill and time. That is the reason I take the highest percentile between Korean members in the site. And you should remember other applicants are Koreans, Kyunghee university students. I am the only Korean who can have most possibility to take the highest position in the site. The members in www.debate.org also have the ability to take your win in debates. You should not underestimate them.(quote : we are university students and we are more skillful than various online debaters. I guess online debate sites cannot be suitable place for training debate.)

5nd, The characters in "Friends" use quirky phrases and expressions that can mislead an English language student. I accepted the reason so I admitted 'Friends' is inappropriate material for developing English language skills. But I already gave you other reason 'Friend' is appropriate material for developing English language skills. There is no difference I found 'Speed reading and Speed listening' by using 'Friends' or 'Debate video'. It is important that I found the useful way to study English by using 'Friends'. And why the characters in 'Friends' use quirky phrases and expressions? You should remember the language is the means for delivering 'some contents'. In the situation of 'Friends', 'quirkly phrases and expressions' is the useful delivery measures. And I can recall some USA people cannot easily accept single mother by watching 'Friends' because I saw Ross's parents tell Ross and Rachel they lied their friends that 'Ross and Rachel married each other'. It is the example of process of learning USA cultures.

And, I should tell 'Thank you' because you show me useful information of the site that can help my reviewing tenses and forms. But, You didn't point out anything what the part is wrong. That means you gave no evidence for supporting your argument.

In summary, I gave you 'Speed studying' means. I gave you my 'English-debate experiences' that your members have not but have great worth. I gave you training place that you did not have. Because of these reasons, I told you I have very creative and sincere heart for IDS, and I ask you should reconsider your decision.
Lexicaholic

Con

[Note: this debate is partially educational for acetraveler and, to help him in his endeavors, I will provide useful comments to his debate in brackets such as these.]

Dear Acetraveler,

Below please find my response to your recently received letter:

"Mr. president, You should reconsider your decision because my strength is over my weakness for joining IDS."

I accept this premise, of course. If you can show that your strengths outweigh your weaknesses or your potential the costs in taking you on, then IDS could not reasonably reject you.

(1) Fast reading – you have yet to explain how this will improve your speaking debate skills. Furthermore, no debate you have been in has used video responses … therefore I find that this response lacks credible evidence to support your supposition.

(2) Second, fast-listening – you have not used such capabilities in presenting your debates online. Please explain why you have not taken advantage of such a capability. Remember, we are judging you based upon YOUR experience, not upon the experience you could possibly acquire debating online.

(3)Third, fast-writing

"By using shorthand program, we can practice debate in many online debate sites like www.debate.org more than our opponents."
You have yet to show us an example of a debate held on debate.org that consists of vocal exchanges … posting video references is more akin to a PowerPoint presentation than an actual English language debate.

[Because our speaking \can contain more contents\ = {will express more content} ‘Content' should almost always be single form. Our speaking /can show more passion/ {will be more passionate} use the future tense with an adjectival form to express a change in quality. Finally, /Our speaking can give us win.'/ {we will win with our improvements in speaking English} remember to be specific regarding what type of speech you will improve]

In response to your refutations:

(1) Nothing is stopping you from using a pseudonym, ‘acetraveler.' You should have completed the form as well as you were able to. Clearly, you did not. Of course, both you and I know that this is merely a procedural technicality and procedure should never interfere with substance. So, of course, I will focus more on the other, more substantial concerns.

(2) English debaters may have an advantage, but do you have an advantage of using better English than an IDS debater of sufficient experience and skill? If the answer is ‘no', I fail to see how we can accept you … freshman.

[Remember: There = a place other than ‘here.' Here = the place where you are at. Their = owned/possessed by /belonging to/ them.]

(3) Is it really proper to tell us what we should need when you are seeking to be accepted by us, and not the other way around? Otherwise, I would have to agree … only an idiot would not see that using a foreign text based debate system could improve language acquisition.

(4)

-[a] can your members surpass my level in www.debate.org?"

I already have and, clearly, being IDS president, I am a ‘member' in this hypothetical situation.

-[b] "I cannot win 4 debates because I forfeit some rounds in the debates basically."

This does not bode well for your acceptance – how can we be sure of your commitment when you so clearly are not committed to the debate you so laud?

(5) Learning US culture does not matter so much as, by your own admission, the best debaters are Australian. http://spreadsheets.google.com... Shouldn't you be learning Australian English instead of American English?

(6) "And, I should tell 'Thank you' because you show me useful information of the site that can help my reviewing tenses and forms. But, You didn't point out anything what the part is wrong. That means you gave no evidence for supporting your argument."

Very well – here are some examples of grammatical errors you have made (corrections are in {} and deletions are in / /:

(a) "For example, I {have} debate{d} {past tense} in www.debate.org more than 10 times, and I have more than 60 posts in www.idebate.org. And I know many other English debate sites and English debate video sites. You said {that}your debate level is higher than online debaters in the reception room. So you told me you don't need to use online debate sites. But I tell you I {have}already met Ph.D Harish.K.Thakur in the www.idebate.org by competing {in the}Nuclear prohibiting debate. He is a political scientist and a poet. And I can tell you again www.debate.org is the best place for practicing {for the}World University Debate Championship because the people and the environment /in / {on} the site is helpful /for/ {to} you.

(b) Third, I was a participant in World Civic Youth Forum 2009(http://www.wcyf2009.org......). Although I was not a panel {member}, /but/ I could listen {to the} panel/s'/ {panel's} speech and question{s}. [Although = but, no need to use both] And I met 2 Chinese friends in there and I was their tour guide in Korea {for}3 days. They are /a/{singular, you are discussing plural} university students major{ing} {present verb tense} in international politics. I couldn't speak Chinese, so I guided them by using English. They even slept in my house /in/{for} 2 night{s} {duration vs placement/ plural vs singular}. And they saw so many things in Seoul, Korea by following my /guide/{guidance} {guide = a person providing guidance, guidance = direction}. I'll tell you in the reception room.
Because of these reasons, I think my English {skill} {English is an adjective as used here … it must describe a noun of some form} is high although I didn't test TOEIC and TOEFL.

TOEIC score (if available) : {please submit}

3. Please write your plan and vision /in/{for} IDS. (within 200 words)
I studied very hard for myself to overcome strong opponents around the world, and I {will} contribute {to} {without using the word ‘to' in order to express direction, it is assumed that you are literally contributing the club itself} this club to win 'World University Debating championship' by using my creative and sincere heart. I'll give you 3 examples.



Third, fast-writing : By using {a} {singular article} shorthand program, we can practice debate in many online debate sites like www.debate.org /more/{to improve ourselves more} than our opponents.

By using these measures, I {am} certain {that} we can listen {to} our opponents' arguments like slow motion and we can take the advantage in the debate contest. Because our speaking /can/{will} /contain/{express} more /contents/{content}. Our speaking /can/ {will} show more passion. {will = it will happen, can = it may happen … if it only may happen, you are not making a strong enough argument} Finally, Our speaking /can give us win/ {will help us win}.

[This is the most egregious mistake … winning is a condition, not a physical object. It can be used as a verb (we won!) an adverb (we performed winningly) or an adjective (we were on the winning team) but very rarely can be used in the noun form … if you wanted to use the noun form, I would recommend " we will have (future tense) many wins." ]

Without expressing the truth or falsehood of any given statement you have made, I am unable to render a decision at this time because you have not responded to my primary concern that there is as yet no way to officially verify whether or not you are a competent English speaker and a competent debater in English. I look forward to your explanation of how you can consider yourself competent without official testing.

Sincerely yours,

Lexicaholic,
IDS president
Debate Round No. 2
acetraveler

Pro

I make links that can make download my 'voice message'.
http://blog.daum.net...
http://blog.daum.net...

I accepted his grammatical correction and I edited my application form.

Application Form

Name:
Gender:male
Date of Birth:
Major:history
Grade:freshmen
Mobile:

[Questions]
1. Have you lived abroad? If YES, please specify where and for how long.
No.

2. How is your English ability?
High.
1st, I enjoy reading subtitles of 'Friends(USA soap opera)' at least 4 times faster than original playing speed of the videos. And I can practice fast-listening and turn down-listening(ex:Turn down the radio) by catching faster and faster to the unlimited speed, more and more quiet speech to the next to soundless condition.

2nd, I have debated in English debate sites. For example, I have debated in www.debate.org more than 10 times, and I have more than 60 posts in www.idebate.org. And I know many other English debate sites and English debate video sites. You said that your debate level is higher than online debaters in the reception room. So you told me you don't need to use online debate sites. But I tell you I have already met Ph.D Harish.K.Thakur in the www.idebate.org by competing in the Nuclear prohibiting debate. He is a political scientist and a poet. And I can tell you again www.debate.org is the best place for practicing for the World University Debate Championship because the people and the environment on the site is helpful to you.

3rd, I was a participant in World Civic Youth Forum 2009(http://www.wcyf2009.org.........). Although I was not a panel member, I could listen to the panel's speech and questions. And I met 2 Chinese friends in there and I was their tour guide in Korea for 3 days. They are university students majoring in international politics. I couldn't speak Chinese, so I guided them by using English. They even slept in my house for 2 nights. And they saw so many things in Seoul, Korea by following my guidance. I'll tell you in the reception room.
Because of these reasons, I think my English skill is high although I didn't test TOEIC and TOEFL.

TOEIC score (if available) :

3. Please write your plan and vision for IDS. (within 200 words)
I studied very hard for myself to overcome strong opponents around the world, and I will contribute to this club to win 'World University Debating championship' by using my creative and sincere heart. I'll give you 3 examples.

1st, fast-reading : I can read the scripts in the 'Friends(USA soap opera)' 16 times faster than original speed. I carried 13 books from Seoul to Chungju to prepare seminar in 'the pupil of daybreak'(That is another debate club in Kyunghee University. But it is not a English debate club. Although IDS members don't need this explanation but online debaters need this.).

2nd, fast-listening. We can record and check practicing debate by using voice recorder and digital camera. And we can manipulate the play speed faster and faster to the unlimited playing speed.

3rd, fast-writing : By using a shorthand program, we can practice debate in many online debate sites like www.debate.org to improve ourselves more than our opponents.

By using these measures, I am certain that we can listen to our opponents' arguments like slow motion and we can take the advantage in the debate contest. Because our speaking will express more content. Our speaking will show more passion. Finally, Our speaking will help us win.

[The End]
I quote the front part of my 'cross examination'. to emphasize my points.
(1)Fast reading - Debate is the fight of logic and evidence, so the debater who can gather and use more information in the same time take advantage generally. This premise is available both speaking debate and writing debate. I already explain the consequences. 'By using these measures, I certain we can listen our opponents' arguments like slow motion and we can take the advantage in the debate contest. Because our speaking can contain more contents. Our speaking can show more passion. Finally, Our speaking can give us win.'

(2)Fast listening - 'Fast listening' have the same effect like 'Fast reading'. I used this measure to prepare College Scholastic Ability Test in Korea(The test is similar to SAT in USA). I prepared English listening by using the sound. : Smaller and Smaller sound that are not listened even from the sound of careful footstep, 4 times faster than original playing speed.
I had failed to good grade the 'College Scholastic Ability Test', but I feel the sound of 'English listening test' like a sweet music. It is like slow motion in boxing. And I got the highest score in The English Listening.

(3)Fast-writing : I don't have to show an example of a debate held on debate.org that consists of vocal exchanges. Because, Vocal exchanges and Text exchanges are based on this condition. - 'If you want to speak, you should recall 'texts' in your brain. And if you can write something, you can tell same thing because you already have 'content' for expressing other people.' - I already wrote this sentence.
hthttp://video.google.co.uk...
And vocal exchanges in debate championships are also like presentation. Please click upper link and see the videos of World Schools Debate Championships.

Refutation of his response : I don't have to emphasize my refutation related to (1), (3), (4), (6) because my 'cross-examination' by using 'member comments' was able to express my points.

(2)I studied English by using debate by using the time when other applicants studied English for preparing tests. Toeic and Tofel requires only 1 answer. But many answers are existed for debate to win. Even if I assume they have higher English skills than mine, 'Machine for tests' will have more difficult time for following activities than who can think by himself. That means, if I assume 'The Situation', I guess they will consume more time to perform debate easily than I will consume some time to training English skills.

(5)'There is no difference I found 'Speed reading and Speed listening' by using 'Friends' or 'Debate video'. It is important that I found the useful way to study English by using 'Friends'.'
This is the main point of my refutation, but you just point out partial things.
And Australian English have better traits for debate than USA English? If you cannot answer 'yes' and show me the proof, IT IS NOT THE MATTER OF 'LANGUAGE'.
IT IS THE MATTER OF 'TRAINING' AND 'RESEARCH'.

Dear members of www.debate.org. I suggest that you vote for me. I don't know who did you agree with before this debate. But I had better conduct in this debate so you can agree with me after this debate. Both of us express you our arguments clearly without many obstacles from grammatical error. But I used many reliable sources like 'Percentile', 'video of WUDC 2009 final', 'video of WSDC', '2009 World Rankings'. He just showed a reference site for Grammar, and he used a just partial thing, 'win ratio'.
So, I claim I made more convincing arguments.
Lexicaholic

Con

Dear Acetraveler,

Below please find our organization's final review of your qualifications:

1.Examples of experience in real time debate using verbal exchanges: 0

a.Your voice messages provided to us are only line by line recitations of your previous submissions.
b.Although you *attended* the World Civic Youth Forum for 2009, you admitted that you did not participate. While this speaks well of your commitment, it says little for your capabilities. Competence, not commitment, was the focus of my last reply to you.
c.Text communications are not the same as real-time verbal exchanges that take place in ordinary debates. Real time debates require a substantial amount of fluency in the language with which you wish to debate. There is no such thing as the "Backspace" key when you are speaking.

2.Completed forms: 0 (I told you to fill this in with place-holder information!)

a.In round two I suggested that you should fill in your application with a recognizable alias (for example, your username) to identify the application.
b.You did not do this.
c.As you are seeking to prove your qualifications to me, especially your qualifications in understanding English, you really should have corrected this. We want a team player, and team players have to listen when the coach, or in this case, the president, speaks.
d.Admittedly, I did not demand it of you. I only said it was what you should have done. However, when seeking to impress a third party, it is important to listen to and respond positively to that party's actions. You are selling yourself to IDS so remember the first rule of salesmanship: know your audience.
3.[OOC] Missing additional information: Lots
a."I don't have to emphasize my refutation related to (1), (3), (4), (6) because my 'cross-examination' by using 'member comments' was able to express my points."
b.Incorrect. At the beginning of the debate you stated that you wanted help with your application and interview process.
c.Therefore, I took the role of IDS president, and treated the first round as submission of your application to me, using the same arguments, less one, that IDS used against you.
d.Nowhere did you state that you would allow posting responses in the comment section.
e.Moreover, as this debate is essentially a mock admissions process, you should have presented any and all arguments to me in the debate proper. You did not. Therefore, I have treated it as though I never received your full response.
f.You essentially agreed to this format with your performance, where you greeted me as IDS president. As you said: "If you are a president of IDS, and you don't like this application form, what makes bother you? You can tell me 'the bothers'." You made this comment to me before the debate started, and I played along. You did not.

4.(OOC) Conduct

a.I agreed to help someone with his English language debating skills while online. That can only be good conduct. :)
b.I adopted the persona of the IDS president throughout this debate, making him as nasty as possible to test acetraveler's ability to interview well.
c.At various times, acetraveler basically told me he knew more than me, in my persona as President, without qualifying it to make it acceptable for interview purposes.
d.Therefore, even though I was admittedly an awful human being in this debate, the nature of the debate demanded that I use my position to challenge acetraveler's temper while he used his to subdue mine. I have met my burden. ;)

5.Friends is still unacceptable

a.Also, please note that I have delivered some videos to you illustrating the manner in which the characters on Friends speak. Please compare these videos to those demonstrating professional English language acquisition programs.

b.After watching the videos, please explain why you did not use such videos as your learning tools when such videos would clearly be better than "Friends" when seeking to learn proper English.

In conclusion, I will keep your application on record. Perhaps, pending a future review, it will be acceptable to us.

Sincerely,
Lexicaholic,
IDS President

[In short: treating the debate like an interview and application process, determine whether or not I, being the interviewer, would be likely to accept acetraveler at the end of the debate.]
Debate Round No. 3
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Lexicaholic 7 years ago
Lexicaholic
NP, acetraveler! Good luck with the interview. :)
Posted by acetraveler 7 years ago
acetraveler
Thanks to debate with me. It will be helpful for interview. I hope to see you next debate.
Posted by acetraveler 7 years ago
acetraveler
Refutation of his response :

(1)For training interview like real warfare, using a pseudonym could be like 'Deceiving IDS president'. Of course, I know this case is not important, I have to stop to mention this more.

(2)It is the matter of contrast between other applicants and me. But, I can tell you I have upper measures to study English and I can create more measures for same object. 'Creativeness' is the best answer which I can use.

(3)I cannot clearly understand this. : 'Is it really proper to tell us what we should need when you are seeking to be accepted by us, and not the other way around?' But I guess this sentence does not contain refutation against my argument, I can regard that my 3rd refutation is available. Please elaborate this sentence, Mr. president.

(4)I know "I cannot win 4 debates because I forfeit some rounds in the debates basically." does not bode well for my acceptance. But I have to said this : 'Take win in online debate sites is harder than you think, dear real IDS members. I couldn't tell you this in the 1st semester but I can tell you now.' And you start this debate by being IDS president, I also regard you as IDS president. So I told you the thing by adding this : 'Your members cannot even practice your own debate often and regularly. I took the information from one of your members.' And you did not point out other things, so I can guess that other parts in my 4rd refutation is available too.

(5)http://debatevideoblog.blogspot.com...
I know Harvard and Oxford was the finalists of WUDC 2009, not the Sydney. So I should also learn USA English.

(6)Thank you to pointing out. And I accept your explanation from this part. I guess I gained the advantage in 3rd and 4rd refutation.
Posted by acetraveler 7 years ago
acetraveler
I'll try cross-examination.
"Mr. president, You should reconsider your decision because my strength is over my weakness for joining IDS."
(1)Fast reading - Debate is the fight of logic and evidence, so the debater who can gather and use more information in the same time take advantage generally. This premise is available both speaking debate and writing debate. I already explain the consequences. 'By using these measures, I certain we can listen our opponents' arguments like slow motion and we can take the advantage in the debate contest. Because our speaking can contain more contents. Our speaking can show more passion. Finally, Our speaking can give us win.'
(2)Fast listening - 'Fast listening' have the same effect like 'Fast reading'. I used this measure to prepare College Scholastic Ability Test in Korea(The test is similar to SAT in USA). I prepared English listening by using the sound. : Smaller and Smaller sound that are not listened even from the sound of careful footstep, 4 times faster than original playing speed.
I had failed to good grade the 'College Scholastic Ability Test', but I feel the sound of 'English listening test' like a sweet music. It is like slow motion in boxing. And I got the highest score in The English Listening.
(3)Fast-writing : I don't have to show an example of a debate held on debate.org that consists of vocal exchanges. Vocal exchanges and Text exchanges are based on this condition. - 'If you want to speak, you should recall 'texts' in your brain. And if you can write something, you can tell same thing because you already have 'contents' for giving other people.' - I already wrote this sentence.
http://video.google.co.uk...
And vocal exchanges in debate championships are also like presentation. Please click upper link and see the videos of World Schools Debate Championships.
Posted by acetraveler 7 years ago
acetraveler
Dear real IDS president and members.
I guess some of you see this debate because I gave you the information of address related to this debate by using your online club. If you found 'rude things' in this debate, all of these things is responsible for me. If something happened so you feel uncomfortable, I will apologize to you.
But, all I can do to join IDS, I should show you the mechanism of online debate because I have no other way to see you 'THE MERIT OF ONLINE DEBATE CLEARLY'. Because I couldn't clearly show you what the merit of online debate, so I guess I provoked some 'rude things.'
And I eagerly want to join IDS 2nd semester. Although I have no brilliant 'Official English Test Scores', at least I show you what I can do.

I'll thank you Lexicaholic to help me a lot for preparing interview. Because of this help, I can practice like the actual warfare, not just training. I'll try cross-examination as soon as possible by using 'member comments', and I'll finish last round on time.
Posted by acetraveler 7 years ago
acetraveler
Don't bother it. It is my duty to refute your argument. Please act unkindly as possible as you can.
Posted by Lexicaholic 7 years ago
Lexicaholic
Ace, just so you know, if I act unkindly towards you in the debate it is only to win the debate or to improve your English/debate skills. Personally I think your use of English is excellent and I wish you all the best in getting into IDS. Anyway, onto the second round...
Posted by Lexicaholic 7 years ago
Lexicaholic
Remember to type this in the debate so that it is counted. :)
Posted by acetraveler 7 years ago
acetraveler
2. I will tell you after 2nd round is finished.

3. ReganFan made a linked video from youtube by using member comments. I can make a film of my speech by using my digital camera first. And I can upload my video that contain my speech to youtube or other video sites, and I can make a linked video in this site like ReganFan or I can make a link in the body of my debate. My opponents in the site can do the same thing, or they can judge and give me some comments by using my linked video. By using this way, you can debate with members in www.debate.org by using verbal exchanges.

4. I am the highest ranker between Korean members in www.debate.org. I am the only one person between Korean members who debate more than 10 times in this site. Although, current IDS members have better debate ability than mine, I have also useful experience for you. And IDS members are contained, contain, will contain Koreans because only Kyunghee university students can join this club. And I know active members in the club are all Koreans.
I am the consistent debater although I am a only Korean debater in www.debate.org. Although I'm not a high ranker in www.debate.org, I am the only Korean who have the most possibility to became the best debater in the site.
(And IDS members cannot use easily online debate. I told them online debate in previous interview in May in this year and I guess they know 'online debate' in that time.)

5. I know 'Friends' is inappropriate material for developing English language skills. But, please see my fruit. I found the way of 'Speed reading' and 'Speed listening' more than 16 times faster than original speed. This measures can be also used to study more valuable things like debate English or other things. I have already used this skills by my other studies. I am the person who can give you valuable presents
Posted by acetraveler 7 years ago
acetraveler
1. http://en.wikipedia.org...(South_Korea)
Dear president of IDS. If I mailed you the application form, I should fill application form. But in this case, not only you and IDS members see the application form, but also many other unknown people can see my application form.

If I filled out my name, birthday, and phone number, my privacy will be seriously destroyed. Why?
Because, the Resident registration number in Korea(like a social security number in USA) contains information of my birthday, my gender, my regional code(the region where my report of a birth was completed), and the order of my report of a birth directly. Many people who have knowledge related to Korean name can guess easily my gender by using my name, and many people can know the part of Resident registration number by using my birthday.
Resident registration number be composed to 13 numbers.
I show you one example by using this : 690812-2957875
69 means someone's birth year(1969). 08 means the someone's birth month(August). 12 means the someone's birthday.(12th). This is the means of 690812.
And, 2 in 2957875 means the someone is a woman. 9578 means the woman's regional code. 7 means the woman's order of report of birth. 5 means the verification number that is made by using other 12 numbers and some formula.

And Resident registration number is essential for Korean life, I cannot easily show you my personal information in this site.

I can easily expect you can point out my application form is not filled, but I am able to tell you this case shows my good sense. I can consider what is the proper word that can be expressed and I can tell reasonable things. That is the precious ability for IDS members.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
acetravelerLexicaholicTied
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