The Instigator
Cowboy0108
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Benshapiro
Con (against)
Winning
9 Points

My country would be successful

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Benshapiro
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/29/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,246 times Debate No: 36133
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (3)

 

Cowboy0108

Pro

In this debate, we are debating whether or not my country would be successful.

Definitions:
Success-high GDP per capita, minimal debt, and capable of being sustained

Rules:
Three rounds of debate
No referencing competition's previous debates or profile
No forfeiting
The country is called Dixie
The flag is the Confederate Battle Flag
We will assume that this proposed country would be five years old.
We will assume a peace treaty with the United States.
Any questions about an unaddressed topic may be asked and I will address them next round
My Country

Location:
South East United States, including all states from GA and Florida to Texas and Oklahoma and includes up to Kentucky. No D.C.

Constitution:
1. Freedom of speech. Any person may say anything without any penalty of law.
2.Right to bear arms. Any person has the unalienable right to possess weapons capable of shooting a lead projectile that is non-explosive for purposes of recreation, defense, hunting, or collection.
3.Right to defend yourself. If you feel physically threatened or someone is within your property without consent, you may kill them without risk of legal ramifications.
4.Gays. No public displays of affection between people of the same sex.
5.Abortion. No abortion under any circumstance with the exception of cases in which the unborn child poses a significant threat to the mother"s life.
6.Military spending. The military must receive 35% of all revenue.
7.Mandatory Service. All people ages 18 to 21 are required to serve in the armed forces. People have the option to attend a military college free of charge after being honorably discharged from the armed forces and may go back into service after graduation.
8.Taxing. 23% sales tax on all goods and services. Prebates based on expected poverty level taxes will be distributed on a monthly basis. This will ensure that poverty level families do not pay any taxes. fairtax.org
9.Immigration. All immigrants must pass a test to ensure skills in proper speech and general knowledge and competency. Tests for blood bourne illnesses will be given to all immigrants. The nation will not be permitted to accept more than .05% of its population in immigrants in a given year. Immigrants who are found to be undocumented will be sent to Puerto Rico, regardless of origin. Only natural born citizens will be permitted to go to government schools and will always be required to have first priority on jobs. They are also the only people to be employed by the government.
10.Imports. Only raw, unprocessed goods may be imported without taxes. All processed goods that enter the country will be charged a 30% tax rate, issued like a sales tax.
11.Religion. The national religion is protestant Christianity. No laws may pass that prohibit the practice of a religion nor would religious officials have a direct role in the government. The schools will be permitted to practice Christianity and cannot teach principals that go against it.
12.Federal Programs. No federal program may go into place if there are private programs which offer the same things. Exception, schools and transportation.
13.Government. The economy will be market. The government will be autocratic and I will be the Commander.
14.United Nations. No involvement with this or any similar union.
15. Budget. No money may be borrowed from another country. Only money in the treasury may be spent.

This is my country how I want it. Address any questions. Address all points.
Benshapiro

Con

1. Freedom of speech. Any person may say anything without any penalty of law.

This means threatening to kill the president, murder, rape, pillage, sodomize, or molest anyone is legal and acceptable without penalty of law. This includes sexual exchanges in the workplace. With no authoritative action, riots will break out and societal violence would escalate rendering the country in turmoil.

2.Right to bear arms. Any person has the unalienable right to possess weapons capable of shooting a lead projectile that is non-explosive for purposes of recreation, defense, hunting, or collection.

no issue

3.Right to defend yourself. If you feel physically threatened or someone is within your property without consent, you may kill them without risk of legal ramifications.

You have the legal right to kill anyone on your property if they are there without consent. So if my distant relatives are at my door when I come home from work I can blast their brains out since they were on my property without my consent and have no legal ramifications. This would further erode the country into societal turmoil.

4.Gays. No public displays of affection between people of the same sex.

Making it illegal for no public displays of affection between gays means that if gay people display affection, means they will be discriminated against or murdered. More societal turmoil.

5.Abortion. No abortion under any circumstance with the exception of cases in which the unborn child poses a significant threat to the mother"s life.

no issue.

6.Military spending. The military must receive 35% of all revenue.

That is a huge portion of GDP allocated to the military and military doesn't generate any revenue. GDP will suffer.

7.Mandatory Service. All people ages 18 to 21 are required to serve in the armed forces. People have the option to attend a military college free of charge after being honorably discharged from the armed forces and may go back into service after graduation.

A huge portion of the workforce will be removed, leaving businesses without the labor force they need to grow their business. Also mandatory service means all people, mentally insane, gay, or otherwise need to have mandatory military servce.

8.Taxing. 23% sales tax on all goods and services. Prebates based on expected poverty level taxes will be distributed on a monthly basis. This will ensure that poverty level families do not pay any taxes. fairtax.org

That is a huge portion of taxes to redistribute from people's income. The more society is taxed, the less GDP will grow because businesses have less money to employ people, and less demand for their products or services.

9.Immigration. All immigrants must pass a test to ensure skills in proper speech and general knowledge and competency. Tests for blood bourne illnesses will be given to all immigrants. The nation will not be permitted to accept more than .05% of its population in immigrants in a given year. Immigrants who are found to be undocumented will be sent to Puerto Rico, regardless of origin. Only natural born citizens will be permitted to go to government schools and will always be required to have first priority on jobs. They are also the only people to be employed by the government.

That is a fascist policy that would encourage racial discrimination and intolerance. Likely the society would turn into one like Hitlers "master race" where one race is believed to be better than all others.

10.Imports. Only raw, unprocessed goods may be imported without taxes. All processed goods that enter the country will be charged a 30% tax rate, issued like a sales tax.

Protectionist international trade policies mean that products will be much more expensive to sell in Dixie. With an already high tax, and distorted workforce, this is devastating.

11.Religion. The national religion is protestant Christianity. No laws may pass that prohibit the practice of a religion nor would religious officials have a direct role in the government. The schools will be permitted to practice Christianity and cannot teach principals that go against it.

By promoting one type of religion, it excludes others and is promoting a religiously intolerant environment. This fosters hatred.

12.Federal Programs. No federal program may go into place if there are private programs which offer the same things. Exception, schools and transportation.

Have fun with a profit motivated police force. They'd nickel and dime you for everything since it would personally benefit them.

13.Government. The economy will be market. The government will be autocratic and I will be the Commander.

Your economy is a dictatorship, leaving the power in the hand of one person. This balance of power encourages a rebellion and take over. This would instantly throw the country in economic chaos.

14.United Nations. No involvement with this or any similar union.

Your country would have no international respect since you don't adhere to basic human rights.

15. Budget. No money may be borrowed from another country. Only money in the treasury may be spent.

You could never sustain this country without going into massive debt. You have already destroyed your country.
Debate Round No. 1
Cowboy0108

Pro

1. I said freedom of speech, not freedom of action. I don't care if someone threatens to kill me, just as long as they don't actually do it.
2. Good
3. Your property is your property. You should be able to do whatever you want on that property. How will being able to kill the people that trespass on my property erode the country into societal turmoil.
4. No, it means that they can be fined or arrested and jailed for the day. Why do you assume I say to kill the gays and discriminate.
5. Good
6. First, the military already gets funding similar to that. Second, the military can generate revenue. If we went to war with Saudi Arabia for some reason, we could drill for their oil. Then we could sell that on the open market. I would plan on running the military like a business as well as a system of defending our nation.
7. Okay, I admit I was not clear with that. I meant mentally and physically capable. However, there will still be plenty of people who would be open for employment. Furthermore, the mandatory service would ensure discipline in the citizens and could do a lot to help with problems such as obesity.
8. First off, the sales tax would be the ONLY tax. Second off, this is not that much. Go to fairtax.org for all the details on the taxing system you need to know.
9. Did I say that I wanted a master race. I said I want little immigration from all over the world. White, black or Hispanic. I want the natural citizens to have opportunity and I do not want anyone getting in the way of that. Mostly, I desire a lower population, which explains my desire for little immigration, not because I want only white people.
10. I have already stated that the tax will not be high, I have no idea how the workforce could be distorted, and any price increases will be made up for by the fact that there will be many more jobs and unemployment would be low because the country would be virtually self dependent. Furthermore, with my taxing system, goods will not be taxed along each stage of production, only when the final person buys the item.
11. I said that the government would not get in the way of other religions just like it already does, the difference is that Protestant Christianity would be able to be promoted. Besides, the states in my country are all part of the Bible Belt so they are already predominately Protestant Christian.
12. This one is my fault. When I said no federal programs, I meant no unemployment, food stamps, healthcare, or any other system like this. I wanted to make it clear that if people didn't work, they would not be able to live in this country. Thus, no expenses from the welfare and low unemployment.
13. The economy would not be a command economy. A command economy would involve the government telling people where to work, when to work, what to buy, the government makes every decision. The economy of my country would be not much different than the current USA, except I would have fewer regulations.
14. How do I not adhere to basic human rights? I allow free practice of religion; I just encourage Christianity. I do not inspire racism; I just limit immigration. I do not take away freedom to make choices; I simply do not have any legislature and supreme court to slow down the decision making process.
Furthermore, why would I need international respect, Dixie would be self dependent already anyway, and it could hold its own in a war.
15. I have already shown that this country is sustainable. This clause in the constitution of Dixie will prevent making the same mistakes the USA did.
Benshapiro

Con

1. I never implied the freedom of action I said "threatening to kill the president, murder, rape . . ." If you believe it is legally acceptable to threaten, or sexually harass people verbally, then my point stands.

2. No issue

3. " Your property is your property. You should be able to do whatever you want on that property. How will being able to kill the people that trespass on my property erode the country into societal turmoil." Because I gave just one example of how your distant relatives could show up at your door uninvited and you can legally blast their brains out. How would it not erode the society into turmoil? You never refuted that point.

4. I'm saying discriminative policies lead to hatred, just look at the racial intolerance of blacks in U.S. history to see what this would lead to. Hatred leads to murder, beatings, crime, ect.

5. No issue

6. The U.S. budget for defense is 20% of GDP. Your 35% of GDP is almost double that. The funding is not similar and this proves your first point wrong. Operating a military for the sake of "running it like a business" to plunder foreign oil is a terrible idea. Every allied country would hate you and destroy you in war - especially with this country's economic instability and corrupt military policies.

7. You have admitted you weren't clear on this point and changed the criteria. Forcing mentally and physically capable people to have mandatory military service would lead to internal corruption and AWOL soldiers.

8. It is very expensive. Especially since those just above poverty would have to pay a 23% tax on all goods and services. This hurts the poor the most - and they wouldn't be able to survive.

9. You are still limiting certain races to thrive and others to struggle. You are promoting racial tension and discrimination - my point stands that this will erode your country morally. This is exactly what began to happen in Nazi Germany when people promoted the white race.

10. a 23% tax is high. The workforce is distorted since everyone need to have mandatory military service, leaving a huge gap of age in the workforce.

11."I said that the government would not get in the way of other religions just like it already does, the difference is that Protestant Christianity would be able to be promoted. Besides, the states in my country are all part of the Bible Belt so they are already predominately Protestant Christian."
Promoting one religion shows intolerance for other religions. This fosters hatred within people who aren't christians. This will further erode your country morally. There is a separation of church and state in the U.S., so that's the difference you aren't seeing.

12. admitted fault and changed the criteria. "I meant no unemployment, food stamps, healthcare, or any other system like this." So those living just above poverty will be taxed at 23% for groceries, gas, clothing, ect and get no federal assistance or healthcare. Wow. The crime rate would skyrocket as people would turn to theft and violence.

13. "The economy would not be a command economy." but in the previous round you said "The government will be autocratic and I will be the Commander". An autocratic government is: "An autocracy is a system of government in which a supreme power is concentrated in the hands of one person . . . http://en.wikipedia.org... is a blatant contradiction.

14. Ensuring basic human rights is a major purpose of the UN, which you don't adhere to. Foreign countries will not respect you.

15. You have shown it sustainable? How?


Debate Round No. 2
Cowboy0108

Pro

1. Alright then. Our opinions on this issue will stand.
2. Good
3. It is your property. You thought about the distant relative; I think about that criminal or stalker at your doorstep. If a person is stalking you, you can't shoot them by today's laws, so you will be stalked, or you can call the cops which will most likely not do anything. Besides, why would a person want to shoot their relative. People wouldn't just shoot people for no reason, though it would be allowed, people would most likely feel threatened before they blew the person's brains out. Furthermore, I never said they HAD to shoot. I simply said that they COULD shoot.
4. How is my opinion on how this should be managed discriminatory? A naturalized citizen can't do everything a natural born citizen can, you don't see hate there. My policy on this issue is designed to prevent societal erosion and keep the church, the dominate religious group in the area, happy.
5. good
6. To clarify, the 35% military spending would include border control, national guard, coast guard, etc. Furthermore, the fifteen extra percent would be taken out of other areas that I would cut down on, like federal assistance and other programs. Take out Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc., we will have extra money to spend.
With this military, I can go to war with the Middle East if I need to, then drain the oil. I can go to war with another country and take the gold from the treasury. This can easily pay for the military, or at least part of it.
7. Alright, I will allow your argument about the mentally ill to stand. However, you fail to address the 99% of people who aren't mentally ill. These people will become healthier and more disciplined. It will help establish a stronger work ethic. Think about how much good this will do for society.
8. You still are ignorant about how the prebates work and how it ensures the tax burden will not be shifted to the poor. Learn about the prebates before you respond in the next round please.
9. I am not promoting any race. I am promoting the people who are born in my country. Furthermore, there will still be plenty of opportunities for the naturalized citizen. I am not promoting discrimination, I am however promoting a first come(born here) first served system.
10. As America stands, there will be plenty of people left outside of the military. Furthermore, those in the military would have developed a stronger work ethic along with discipline which wouldn't hurt. There will be plenty of workers to sustain a relatively self dependent economy.
11. Look at Italy. It has a national religion known as Catholicism. However, there are many muslims there. These are not discriminated against. Furthermore, you forget about the culture currently in this area. There is a church on every corner in Georgia, almost all of them are protestant. Any issue on this front that MAY occur, will be small. The thing about separation of church and state the way it is currently enforced, is found if you look at the schools. Schools cannot throw Christmas parties, they can throw Holiday Celebrations. Schools cannot play Christmas songs. It is even politically incorrect to say "Merry Christmas". This is stupid and problems like this is what I am setting out to resolve.
12. Again, learn about the taxing system before you criticize it. In fact, the taxing system is supposed to leave people with more money than what they started with. Voters can choose if they want to disregard my change in criteria because I was not clear.
13. You clearly lack basic knowledge of government systems and economic systems. In a command economy, the government makes all the decisions in relationship to the economy. An autocratic government means that one person, me, would make all political decisions without any other house. In other words, it would be like a president with no legislature. I would not tell people where to work or what to buy, like in a command economy. But I do have the power to change a budget.
14. How do I not adhere to basic human rights? I say no public displays of affection between gays, I don't say to execute them. I said no naturalized citizens in the government, I didn't say put them in a concentration camp. Even if I did, which I didn't, how will foreign countries respect mean anything to me. I already planned to strive for self dependency and I will not need military assistance, nor will I even be a member of the UN.
15. How have you shown that my country is not sustainable? I have refuted every argument you have given with a fair amount of reason and fact.

Vote for me!
Benshapiro

Con

I can say with confidence that Dixie would not be a successful country.

LAW #1: Freedom of speech. Any person may say anything without any penalty of law.

In his country it is legal to threaten to kill, murder, rape, make racial threats and sexually harass people. I addressed this issue and he said he has no problems with it. For example, t would be perfectly legal for a group of people to sexually harrass a little kid and threaten to kill him. This law encourages societal degredation, psychological problems of the people harassed, openly legal racial ithreats, and a national security issue of the president receiving legal threats to be kiled. This country would not be successful given the social unsustainability.



LAW #2. No issue

LAW #3.Right to defend yourself. If you feel physically threatened or someone is within your property without consent, you may kill them without risk of legal ramifications.

"...I never said they HAD to shoot. I simply said that they COULD shoot."

Then you have missed my point entirely. Just because it doesn't HAVE to happen doesn't mean it won't. Especially when it is legal. Under your law, people may: shoot any man, woman, or child on your property if they are there without consent regardless of their intent. So if a little kid stumbled on your property to pick up his baseball, you can kill him... Wow. Many accidents would happen everyday like this if this law was legal. Throwing the country further into societal chaos and turmoil. This country is socially unstable.

LAW #4. Gays. No public displays of affection between people of the same sex.

"My policy on this issue is designed to prevent societal erosion and keep the church, the dominate religious group in the area, happy."

You are promoting discrimination. By putting one group of people down and encouraging the values of another group, you are discriminating. This sounds very familiar to the hatred before the civil rights movement in the U.S. My point stands that this would segregate and encourage discrimination in your country. Social hatred would ripple through the economy.

LAW #5. No issue

LAW #6. Military spending. The military must receive 35% of all revenue

"To clarify, the 35% military spending would include border control, national guard, coast guard, etc. Furthermore, the fifteen extra percent would be taken out of other areas that I would cut down on, like federal assistance and other programs. Take out Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc., we will have extra money to spend."

With this military, I can go to war with the Middle East if I need to, then drain the oil. I can go to war with another country and take the gold from the treasury. This can easily pay for the military, or at least part of it.

The military doesn't generate any revenue, it's a government expenditure. 35% is a huge portion of GDP to allocate to the miliitary and still expect your country to be sustainable. You mention eliminating social security, medicaid, and medicare. Now, retired grandfathers, dads living in poverty, and people who desperately need medical care will not receive it because the military is getting that funding. And for what? "I can go to war with the Middle East if I need to, then drain the oil. I can go to war with another country and take the gold from the treasury. This can easily pay for the military..."

Age discrimination, heartless policies, promoting a war environment, allocating a massivep portion of GDP to military-which doesn't generate revenue, international hatred of this country for going to war with the intent of slaughtering foreigners for oil. International sanctions, allied foreign countries going to war with us, and internal societal corruption have already rendered Dixie to ashes.

LAW #7. Mandatory Service. All people ages 18 to 21 are required to serve in the armed forces

Alright, I will allow your argument about the mentally ill to stand...

My opponent conceded this point because he did not state that the mandatory service criteria would be changed, even though I pointed out that mentally ill people would be forced to serve.

LAW #8. Taxing. 23% sales tax on all goods and services.

"You still are ignorant about how the prebates work and how it ensures the tax burden will not be shifted to the poor"

The burden of proof is on you, the one claiming your country to be successful, to explain how this taxation process works in your country. You have failed to do so, and nothing is explained.

LAW #9. Immigration. All immigrants must pass a test to ensure skills in proper speech and general knowledge and competency. Tests for blood bourne illnesses will be given to all immigrants. The nation will not be permitted to accept more than .05% of its population in immigrants in a given year. Immigrants who are found to be undocumented will be sent to Puerto Rico, regardless of origin. Only natural born citizens will be permitted to go to government schools and will always be required to have first priority on jobs. They are also the only people to be employed by the government.

English background biased. Immigrants treated like diseased cattle. Siphening immigrants (who are of different nationality) to 0.05%. Sending all illegals to puerto rico regardless of origin is cruel and intolerant. Blatant nationality bias in government jobs and private sector jobs. Do I even have to mention societal turmoil again?

LAW #10. Imports. Only raw, unprocessed goods may be imported without taxes.

Cheap goods from China make up a huge portion of our sales in discount stores such as walmart. Prices of goods in Dixie will rise significantly since imported goods will be taxed heavily. Add on the 23% tax for everything and this is devastating. More instability.

LAW #11 .Religion. The national religion is protestant Christianity...The schools will be permitted to practice Christianity and cannot teach principals that go against it

There is a difference between promotion of a national religion and suppression of religion currently happening in the U.S. The problem with having a national religion is that is promotes one religion over all others.

LAW #12. Again, learn about the taxing system before you criticize it...

The buden of proof is yours, not mine. I'm not going to research a tax system you failed to explain.

LAW #13. Government. The economy will be market. The government will be autocratic and I will be the Commander

You clearly lack basic knowledge of government systems and economic systems. In a command economy, the government makes all the decisions in relationship to the economy. An autocratic government means that one person, me, would make all political decisions without any other house. In other words, it would be like a president with no legislature. I would not tell people where to work or what to buy, like in a command economy. But I do have the power to change a budget.

You clearly stated that you would be "the Commander". Besides, you would run your country like a dictatorship. As I stated before, placing the power in the hands of one person encourages a rebeliion. Which would be inevitable given the instability of your country's laws. I already pointed this out and you failed to refute.

LAW #14. United Nations. No involvement with this or any similar union.

"How do I not adhere to basic human rights?.."

Because you don't adhere to the policies of the UN, and they maintain that human rights are not being violated. By failing to be a part of the UN, international countries will not recognize you as being a proponent of basiic human rights.

LAW #15. Budget. No money may be borrowed from another country. Only money in the treasury may be spent.

How have you shown that my country is not sustainable? I have refuted every argument you have given with a fair amount of reason and fact.

To the contary, you have conceded and revised some of your points. The points you haven't revised or changed still face the same flaws I have pointed out and remain unchallenged. This country is not successful or sustainable
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Benshapiro 3 years ago
Benshapiro
Posted to forum
Posted by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
You should submit this to the forums for more voters.
Posted by Coinsruledude 3 years ago
Coinsruledude
Dixie looks like it'll have a few economic problems...
Posted by Tulbakra 3 years ago
Tulbakra
I reject the premise that a successful country is the definition you give. The only real judge of a countries success is how happy the people are.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Oromagi 3 years ago
Oromagi
Cowboy0108BenshapiroTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro would essentially re-assert the confederacy with some minor flourishes provided by Rush Limbaugh. Already proven unsustainable and Pro does not even acknowledge prior failures
Vote Placed by MrJosh 3 years ago
MrJosh
Cowboy0108BenshapiroTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: PRO was unable to counter CON's points about social order. Also, PRO had to revise some of his points.
Vote Placed by ObiWan 3 years ago
ObiWan
Cowboy0108BenshapiroTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con forced Pro to make changes to his original Laws, indicating that already some of them would not allow a country to be successful. Also Pro failed to adequately justify his military spending without going to war, which in turn would just promote more military spending. Pro's high tax rates and refusal to borrow foreign currency would lead to a lack of economy growth. The discrimination against gays, promotion of Christianity and refusal to join the UN would also lead the country to be ridiculed on a global scale as Con pointed out. Finally I feel cons points about discrimination and violence in the community were not adequately refuted.