The Instigator
L_Bloodless
Pro (for)
Tied
7 Points
The Contender
Vi_Veri
Con (against)
Tied
7 Points

My first debate - Which of these came first, the chicken or the egg?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/16/2009 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,584 times Debate No: 10151
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (31)
Votes (2)

 

L_Bloodless

Pro

Hello everyone, this is my first time being on the website. I have read over about 5 debates now, and feel somewhat confident in starting my first debate. I ask that you "take it easy on the newbie," so to speak =D.

Anyway, let's get things going. This debate is going to be based first on what you think came first, the chicken or the egg, and what proof that you have for your opinion. I will sign on as pro, meaning for the chicken coming first, and my opponent, whoever that may be, will sign on for the egg. I made this a shorter debate, giving a 2000 character limit on this debate, mainly for me, so that I can be shown the ropes. I don't really have any other rules on this debate, so let's go ahead and get things going =D.

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Any advise that you all can give me during this debate is HIGHLY appreciated. I am really going into this blind other than with the debates that I have already viewed. My vocabulary will also not be near the level that i have seen on here, so fair warning now. Thanks for all of the help now ahead of time. I look foreward to going through with this.
Vi_Veri

Con

This is simple: the egg came first.

Proof:

Genetic material does not change during an animal's life, thus the genetic material change to form the first chicken happened inside of an egg -- concluding that this egg hatched the first chicken. [1]

The egg came before the chicken.

Sources:

1. http://www.cnn.com...
Debate Round No. 1
L_Bloodless

Pro

I thank and welcome my opponent for taking on this debate.

I viewed over my opponents source, and this theory that the person made on the website is based completely on the thought that whatever gave birth to the chicken hatched it out of an egg. The man or women who wrote the article says, "If a kangaroo laid an egg from which an ostrich hatched, that would surely be an ostrich egg, not a kangaroo egg." The known fact about kangaroos are that they do not lay eggs. Let's say in complete theory that the kangaroo did give birth to that same chicken, using what we know about kangaroos, it would not be in an egg.

Mutation: 1. A change of the DNA sequence within a gene or chromosome of an organism resulting in the creation of a new character or trait not found in the parental type.

As you can see by the definition, anything that causes an alteration in a DNA sequence of an organism can cause a mutation. Organisms, even by themselves make mistakes in DNA duplication. Sunlight causes simple mutations in us any time we are exposed to it through its UV radiation. This is why we tan in sunlight. The most probable way that the chicken was formed was through a defect with these mutations. A bird only stays in an egg a small fraction of its life, making the more probable way by mutation being sometime during its post-developing lifespan. If you keep this same principal with the animal that gave birth to the chicken, it is much more probable that the chicken was mutated during life, not through an egg lifespan. If you delve even further through this, the most probable way is that the egg was a mutation after the bird existed.

I look forward to my opponent's response.
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Sources:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
http://www.brooklyn.cuny.edu...
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu...
Vi_Veri

Con

Vi_Veri forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
L_Bloodless

Pro

Since my opponent has not presented anything at all to counteract my arguments, I strongly urge you all to vote pro (chicken). I thank my opponent for debating me, and look forward to the many debates ahead.
Vi_Veri

Con

**Let it be noted that even with my accidental forfeit, my opponent and I are equal in regards to number of arguments.**

My opponent's analysis of the article is albeit a bit humorous. He accuses the article writer of claiming that kangaroos lay eggs (though it was not the article writer but Professor David Papineau, of King's College London, who teaches the philosophy of science).

Professor Papineau's analogy was just that - an analogy where he tries to show how ridiculous it is to claim that the egg is of the type of animal that lays it instead of of the type that hatches out of it. He is showing how if the egg possesses an Ostrich inside of it - then it is an Ostrich egg. This extreme analogy helps in visualization of what actually goes on in species evolution.

"Chickens evolved from non-chickens through small changes caused by the mixing of male and female DNA or by mutations to the DNA that produced the zygote. These changes and mutations only have an effect at the point where a new zygote is created. That is, two non-chickens mated and the DNA in their new zygote contained the mutation(s) that produced the first true chicken. That one zygote cell divided to produce the first true chicken. " [1]

The mutation that took place at the combination of the chromosomes produced the first chicken embryo (which would make the egg a chicken egg, and this is what Prof. Papineau was getting at with his analogy).

My opponent's only argument is mutation in the chicken while it is still living: Evolution clearly shows that a new species is only produced through speciation (which can only occur in the embryo) where interbreeding stops. Genetic evidence from the chicken shows that it is a hybrid of the red junglefowl and the grey junglefowl. [2]

1. http://science.howstuffworks.com...
2. http://www.plosgenetics.org...

**Character Limit Reached**
Debate Round No. 3
31 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Vi_Veri 7 years ago
Vi_Veri
No one voted on this other than you and I
Posted by L_Bloodless 7 years ago
L_Bloodless
What does?
Posted by Vi_Veri 7 years ago
Vi_Veri
this blows
Posted by Zetsubou 7 years ago
Zetsubou
Romans crucified people on crosses - Very probable fact.
Posted by Vi_Veri 7 years ago
Vi_Veri
Yeah, like 99.99% of debates on this site have a 3 day rebuttal period. I have never personally been in a debate where the time for answer was less than 3 days. Anyway, I don't believe my forfeited round means much as you didn't post an argument at all your first round : ) We are precisely the same in amount to arguments in our debate.
Posted by L_Bloodless 7 years ago
L_Bloodless
Is that a bad thing?
Posted by Vi_Veri 7 years ago
Vi_Veri
Plus I didn't realize the time limit for posts in this debate was less than 3 days....
Posted by L_Bloodless 7 years ago
L_Bloodless
Alright, it's fine with me =P. I wish ya luck.
Posted by Vi_Veri 7 years ago
Vi_Veri
Sorry about the forfeit, had important school work to attend to (nearing finals week). I'll post a final round.
Posted by L_Bloodless 7 years ago
L_Bloodless
"The egg came first via Evolution. By Creation, the Chicken.

I see the Crosses in the Link but it looks more like a stickmen massacre.

@On the God debate.
Where have I seen this before?"

If you read the debate, I made a fairly good argument on the subject, even against the cnn link. If you think about it, my point makes sense.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by L_Bloodless 7 years ago
L_Bloodless
L_BloodlessVi_VeriTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by Vi_Veri 7 years ago
Vi_Veri
L_BloodlessVi_VeriTied
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Total points awarded:07