The Instigator
Pro (for)
14 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
7 Points

My hypothetical group of dead musicians is better than yours (HIP HOP VERSION)

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/9/2009 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,409 times Debate No: 9993
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (40)
Votes (3)




This is intended as a fun debate where we argue about the brilliance of talented musicians who are no longer with us.


1. In round 1 both debaters shall present their hypothetical group line-up.

2. All group members must be referenced by at least a Wikipedia source.

3. All group members will be generally recognised as dead. Conspiracy speculation will not be given credit, Tupac and Elvis are dead, Paul McCartney is not.

4. Groups must contain exactly five members and no more. No artist may be selected by both debaters.

5. The group must include at least three rappers/MCs, at least one producer/beatmaker and at least one scratch deejay but multi tasking is allowed (eg. a producer who was also a scratch deejay would allow you to include 4 members who were just MCs).

6. We will debate rapper vs. rapper, producer vs. producer etc. as well as discussing the group as a whole.

7. Con may choose to start debating in round 1 or wait for me to begin in round 2.

8. We will be considering the general talents, technical abilities, creativity, charisma, popularity, body of work and just about any other factor my opponent wishes (rights reserved) in discussing the merits of our groups and the individuals that comprise them.

9.Obviously in a debate like this, a lot of our points will be based on opinion but we should attempt to back up our opinions with reliable sources that reaffirm them.

10. No blatant disrespect to any of the artists (RIP).


My band:

1. MC: Biggie
2. MC: O.D.B
3. MC: Big L
4. Producer (and MC): Dilla
5. DJ: Roc Raida

Any questions ask me in the comments.

Thanks and good luck to my opponent.
Debate Round No. 1


Thanks to my youthful opponent for accepting, despite his tender years he seems to have a decent grasp of hip hop history and I anticipate a good debate.

Time to show and prove.

Due to space limitations I will simply compare individuals in this round and compare the groups as a whole later in the debate.


Biggie vs. Tupac

Obviously this is the clash of the titans, the two most famous dead rappers who both died violently at the peak of their careers, within 6 months of each other after an ongoing feud between them put entire coasts at loggerheads.

Looking back on the legacy of these two individuals, it is fair to say that while Tupac was probably a bigger star, Biggie was certainly a better MC.

Biggie exploded onto the scene after his first demo (self-funded by selling drugs) was featured in the Source magazine's 'unsigned hype' column in 1992. Most heads remember the first time they heard Biggie. That's the kind of impact his voice and his flow had.

No one noticed Tupac's raps when he was a background member of Oakland's Digital Underground crew and it wasn't until after he appeared in movies such as Juice (1992 that people started paying attention to his rapping. Tupac was a gifted actor but he used his acting skills and his good looks to promote his rapping career and without the success of Juice, he would probably have continued to be overshadowed as a rapper by Shock G (alias Humpty Hump) and not even made a solo album.

Biggie was big, fat and ugly and often described as shy in his personal life. He succeeded by his mic skills alone. Tupac was a charming poser and a pretty boy, he appealed to a wider audience of females and people who didn't listen to underground hip hop.

Fortunately for the purposes of this debate, we can judge the two rappers performing together in the two video links provided. The first is a well-known audio recording of a live show, the second a casual freestyle sitting round a table.

I believe that on both these videos, Biggie's superiority as an MC is self-evident. He flows tighter using more creative rhythm patterns and rhyme schemes. Although Tupac was in much better shape physically he sounds out of breath in the live show and is less coherent and clear than B.I.G. In the freestyle Tupac is rambling, vague and making excuses (he is too high and his drink is too strong). Biggie's free starts off quite weak but gains in intensity, it is longer and much tighter overall than Pac's.


O.D.B. vs. Eazy E

These are two radically different artists, so it's quite difficult to compare them. They have little in common except both being victims of their own excess but there's little doubt in my mind which one was the better rapper.

Easy E was a gifted and ruthlessly successful business man (The name of his business empire, Ruthless Records was highly appropriate) but as an MC, he was kind of whack.

He had that whiny little voice, the most basic of flows and he couldn't even write.

The lyrics for NWAs multi platinum album Straight Out Of Compton and Eazy's first solo effort Eazy Does It were almost entirely written by MC Ren and Ice Cube. When Eazy does spit his own bars, as on his verse for the title track of Straight Out Of Compton, the lyrical gulf between him and his band mates was huge.

Ol' Dirty Bastard defies comparison with any other MC. He was a totally unique artist.

His deranged shouting/singing/rapping style could never be recreated by any other performer whereas there are plenty of diminutive west-coast 'gangstas' who do Eazy's style better than he did himself, eg. Too $hort.

Eazy E was clearly the worst of the five MCs in NWA.

ODB was many fan's favourite member of The Wu Tang Clan and despite being in a group of 9 amazing MCs, he was one of the first (second only to Method Man) to get signed to a solo deal in the mad record company scramble that followed the underground success of Enter The 36 Chambers.

Despite being crazy and ugly, everybody wanted a bit of that ODB flavour and he performed numerous collaborations, including alongside r&b hotties such as Mariah, Mya and Kelis.

While Eazy E would certainly be a better choice as band manager, ODB is a far superior MC and all-round entertainer.


Big L vs. Bugz

I am quite surprised by this selection from my opponent, if only because I think Bugz' bandmate in D12, Proof would have been a more logical choice.

I think Proof had a much stronger pedigree than Bugz in terms of solo output and success in freestyle battles.

It is probable that very few people outside of Detroit would have heard of D12 were it not for the international success of Eminem. It was after Bugz' death that Eminem re-joined the group and they started making hits.

Bugz does not stand up against Big L.

L earned his props rapping alongside old school legends like Showbiz & A.G, Percy Pee, Diamond D and his mentor Lord Finesse but went on to have a career that surpassed them all. He built a rep as a freestyle MC performing alongside Jay-Z (back before Zigga dumbed down his original fast tongue style for the monotonous thug BS that made him rich) and his last album included guest shots from legends such as Kool G Rap, Big Daddy Kane and Tupac.

Big L successfully ran his own Flamboyant Entertainment imprint and achieved sales and recognition way beyond Bugz.


Dilla vs. Big Pun

Okay, I can't claim with any legitimacy that Dilla was a better MC than Big Pun.

Dilla was quite possibly the best producer on the mic though, as tunes like F**k The Police and his work with Madlib on the Jaylib album demonstrate.

Also bare in mind that Pun's extreme obesity caused him a lot of health problems and hampered his live performances in particular.


Production: Dilla vs. DJ Skrew

DJ Skrew is a legend in Texas but the cult of Jay Dee is a global phenomenon and he worked with top rappers from all over the US, not just his native Detroit.

Skrew was essentially a re-mixer who created his own versions of existing hits. Dilla was a true pioneer and his work with Slum Village, The Pharcyde, A Tribe Called Quest and many other legendary hip hop groups cemented his reputation.

He is known for the hardest kick drum sound in hip hop and, unlike Skrew, he pops up on every current list of greatest producers.


Turntablism/Scratching: Roc Raida vs. DJ Skrew

Not much to say here. Raida was a world champion DJ who was inducted into the DMC hall of fame and awarded the coveted title of Grandmaster 10 years before his death.

I've seen or heard no evidence of DJ Skrew mastering any advanced flare or crab techniques.


I believe I have proved my band superior in all but one of six different individual categories.

Over to my opponent.


zneuser93 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2



Why do my opponents keep forfeiting?

My group is stupid dope and it's also copasthetic.
My opponent is a chump and a forfeit is pathetic.

Extend my arguments.



zneuser93 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3


Extend. Please vote.

Only one can win.



zneuser93 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
40 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by feverish 6 years ago
A 7 point vote for Con? Maybe Tupac is still alive after all.
Posted by Danielle 6 years ago
All points to feverish, of course.
Posted by feverish 6 years ago
Maybe next week.
Posted by zneuser93 6 years ago
redebate me
Posted by feverish 6 years ago
Me too :(
Posted by Xer 6 years ago
Ugh. I was looking forward to this debate too.
Posted by uptheduffer 6 years ago
Posted by Xer 6 years ago
Run D.M.C.
Posted by Xer 6 years ago
Jam-Master Jay.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by wonderwoman 6 years ago
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Vote Placed by EinShtoin 6 years ago
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Vote Placed by Danielle 6 years ago
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