My little pony IS a immature show
Debate Rounds (5)
The new series of MLP:FiM aka G4 My little pony was created by the wife of veteran cartoon series creator Craig McCracken, Lauren Faust. As I mentioned in my last debate Lauren was hired to revamp the series. She was given a guideline which to some degree she followed. She wanted the show to be more though. She tried to go past her boundaries and Hasbro put a stop to her. While she was able to do a lot with the show she was in charge of; she was still limited due to the guidelines. These limits prevented her from creating her "perfect vision" of the show and she eventually left because of this.
Now why is this show not "mature"? Well to answer this question I will be going over some various things that makes something mature. I will also make various comparisons, but instead of trying to laying all my cards out at once I will just introduce one thing at a time. This way I can prove that show is immature as well as address any counter-points my opponent makes
I will start off with my first point on why the show is immature.
As stated in my previously, Lauren Faust had a great idea for thow. She did want to make the show mature. At least more mature than what it has been and what it is now. This didn't happen because of Hasbro. Which is my first point. When someone creates a medium they usually create it specifically for a target. In the case of MLP Hasbro's target was little girls. They never meant for it to be anything more or less than a show for little girls. The past 25 plus some odd years prove this if you look back from when the very first incarnation of this show was created in the 1980's. From that point on they have continued on the same path and have yet to stray from it or stray very far from it. The same thing can be said with every thing. When I create a show, book, or whatever my first thought is "who it will be for". This way I know what I want to put in my whatever and/or what I can and can't put in my whatever. This is why people don't watch adult channels like Playboy or Spice and see something akin to Blue Clues or House of Mouse. The same can be said with the various family networks. I won't turn on Disney and ever see a show called "Hot MILFS banging step daughters".
The content creators decide the maturity level of the content and not the content viewers. Even if the content viewers aren't who or what the content was created for.
Now I don't like to attack people based on grammar and spelling mistakes because anyone (including me) can and do make them. If I was to judge you based on your grammar and spelling I think I probably could win the "viewers are immature debate" because you don't seem to be that mature at all. Instead I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that maybe you were tired when you typed up your counter argument. Even though you still just took a loss on round one. Try to be more careful.
Now as I first stated in this debate it isn't about the maturity level of the people or viewers the show. This debate is about the maturity of the show and not the bronies or viewers of the show. I am going to continue to prove the show is immature when I bring up my next point.
My first point, which my opponent failed to respond to, is that content's maturity is determined by the the content creator(s).
In this case Hasbro determines who and what MLP is going to be for. My next point is going to be more in depth about the show's characters and story.
My little pony: Friendship is magic is a show that mainly teaches lessons to kids by going through various stories. If the lesson is about being kind to someone the story will reflect this by showing the characters being mean and then eventually showing the kindness moral. This right here is more proof of how immature the show is. While teaching morals or lessons isn't specifically a immature thing, the way MLP does it is. The characters usually get into fights or have problems that only a younger audience could really relate to or understand. Take my two of my top three most hated episodes.
Each of these episodes do convey a moral and lessons that young kids can learn, but the way they teach them come off as bad. In Nightmare Night the lesson was something like "don't jump to conclusions". It taught this by having the character "Princess Luna" come to the town on a day that was about her "evil" side. She just wanted to enjoy the festivities and have fun, but she was instead feared and the ponies constantly ran away from her claiming she was the evil "Nightmare moon". I see the real lesson of this story as being "it is okay to instigate lies about someone as long as you are joking". I see it this way because it was later explained that the whole reason for instigating and acting the way they did around her was because it was "a joke". She wasn't in on the joke and for the most part didn't like the way they kept treating her. This was evident by a part in the episode where she canceled Nightmare Night permanently. This shows how immature the show is.
The episode Ponyville Confidential was about the three youngest characters joining a school newspaper. When the character in charge decided that they weren't bringing in any "good news" they turned to gossip. At first the gossips wasn't so bad, but as the episode progressed they got worse. The lesson in this episode is "one shouldn't spread gossip or secrets about people if they don't have permission to do so" or something like that. The problem with this episode is the way the main characters acted and treated the younger characters when they found out it was them that was spreading the gossip. For the most part the gossip they put in the newspaper was bad, but it wasn't "bad". It was stuff like one character being lazy or one having a "tail extension". In one case it was about the character who parties to much finding out in the paper that she "parties too much". These gossip articles caused the characters to shut themselves in their own home. They ignored and shunned the young ones. Even the character who you think would have the most sense to maybe try to figure something out put up a magic shield around her home keeping them from getting even a few feet from the house. The way the characters acted over some stupid news articles was bad. The mature thing for them to do would have been to sit down with the young ones and talk to them about how they have caused damage and why they should stop. What they shouldn't have done was ignore and shunned them as if they they had the black plague. In truth of all the characters only one of them really had any real right to be upset with them and that was because they took her diary.
As you can see the characters in the show don't even act that mature when it comes to the most simplest of problems. If we look at the story it becomes more apparent how immature the show is. The show has no real story or story arcs. Most the episodes revolve around "slice-of-life" stories. Basically one shot stories that don't really connect to the previous story/episode. You can just about start the series from any episode and you wouldn't have to worry about missing something important. You can watch the tenth episode of season two first you would be basically all caught up. The show is built this way to keep it simple for viewers who it is made for. Even the design of the show is very simplistic. It is created in flash. The character are extremely easy to make because of this. If you can make a base then creating any of the characters from the show as well as your very own becomes pie.
BryanV12 forfeited this round.
Even though my opponent's first response was probably also his last response, which is more proof of immaturity, I will continue on.
I will continue from my last argument about the shows immaturity being seen even in the show itself.
A good mature show also answers questions it asks. What does this mean? Well simply put a mature show will give the viewers plenty of info about the shows story, characters, and background information. Most shows will basically ask questions that the viewers will get answers to over time as the series progresses. Solving mysteries little by little, so that the viewer is given a story that always keeps them coming back for more.
Take the Cartoon Network series "Ben 10". The very first series simply entitled "Ben 10" started off with a young boy, his cousin, and his Grandpa traveling during summer break. One night while camping he sees a meteor. He investigates the impact site and gets a strange "watch" that gives him the ability to change into aliens and whatever powers these aliens have. This is where the series begins. The questions the series and viewers are now asking are:
What is this device?
Where did it come from?
Who made it?
Why did it land on earth?
If these questions were all answered right off the bat the series wouldn't have been very good and would have ended before it began. The series instead answered these questions through movies and over times as each new episode was released.
We found out though a movie that it was created by "Asmoth"
We found out over time in the series that the watch was actually called "the omnitrix"
We found out that the omnitrix was created to give one the ability to "walk in another's shoes" peaceful purposes basically.
We found out that it actually wasn't even meant for Ben but actually his grandpa Max who we later find out is part of organization that protects the world from aliens called the "plumbers"
In short the show answers just about every question it and the viewers ask.
My little pony: Friendship is magic ask many question as well. Technically some questions have been answered by the shows creators, but the average viewer isn't going to go on the Internet to find out answers that they have about their shows. They expect their questions to be answered with in the show, so the only work they have to do is tune in every week to get these answers. These average people that are watching MLP:FiM are probably asking these questions
Where is Applejack's parents? She has had a few family themed episodes so why haven't we seen them yet?
What is wrong with Scoot-a-loo? Why can't she fly when there are characters that are much younger than her that fly just fine?
Are we ever going to find out who Spike's true (dragon) family is?
What is up with the cutie marks? Can a pony have multiple cutie marks?
Can pony have a special talent, but be equally talented in something else that doesn't reflect their cutie mark?
Can a pony get a cutie mark for a special talent, but not want a cutie mark for that specific talent?
What is up with their world? Africa is the same, but what about other countries?
What are other cities like?
Where is Fluttershy's parents and is she the way she is because of some sort of trauma in her life or maybe she had strict parents?
Who was the rulers before Princess Celestia and Luna? How old do pony's get since the both Luna and Celestia are well over 1000 years old and other characters seem to have hinted at being well into their hundreds?
As you can see I can go on and on because the show asks these as well as many other questions. The problem here is the show doesn't answer any of them or have answered them very lazily. For most questions we will probably never even get a lazy answer for, because since the show is immature and is designed for a immature audience they aren't really to concerned with the answers to these and any other questions the show will ask and does ask.
Now I could be jumping the gun with the next argument, but I am willing to bet that this show won't have a ending or a complete ending. Just based on the fact that the show doesn't even answer questions. Everything has a beginning and an ending. While we as viewers don't really like endings to things we like we all must accept them. It is for the best in the long run otherwise we get "The Simpsons" a show that gets old and stale over time.
Many shows and many more mature shows have endings. The old Fox Kids show X-men had a decent ending. Just about every anime out there has usually some sort of complete, good, or worse case bad ending. Going back to cartoon network, I can remember three shows as of late that have both had pretty good or decent endings.
These shows are "The Secret Saturdays", "Codename: Kids Next Door", and surprisingly enough "Ed, Edd, and Eddy". Ed, Edd, and Eddy is the best example I can use here because it more closely resembles My little pony. It never had a real plot or story. It was mostly a slice-of-life comedy about three kids living in the "Cul-de-sac" just trying to scam neighboring kids out of their money, so they can buy jawbreakers. It did ask a few questions, but for the most part there wasn't anything too dramatic or big to keep me invested in this show. I did watch enough episodes to know what was going on most of the time. It wasn't until a few years back when Cartoon Network released a movie for the series that actually not only gave the series a complete ending, but also a very good ending which really blew my mind seeing as the show never really went anywhere.
For MLP to have a good ending Twilight would have to become a princess...WHOOPS that already happened in season three. Well maybe some of the other characters will achieve some of their goals or something, though again I doubt it. Long story short, I don't think MLP will ever end or have a complete (and decent) ending.
Finally I am going to bring up something the bronies usually bring up as another defense to their show being "mature".
I am talking about adult references. This show has had a few here and there throughout the series. Things like "the punch has been spiked" or parody scenes of "ponified" characters from old and R rated movies. I don't see these as "proof that show isn't immature". Why? Well Look at shows such as Animaniacs which had non-stop adult references and parodies. The Warner bros (and sister) famous "Good night everybody!" catch phrase was said after any adult joke that looked like it was going to be the thing that was going to get the show canceled by the censors. Throwing in a few adult references and parodies here and there don't make a show automatically "mature".
As proof of this allow me to tell you a story about a classmate. I don't remember all the details, but he got into a small fight with someone else in the hall. It wasn't a physical fight it was more word based. He entered our classroom and said "I'm mature I can beat you up!". Everyone in class started to laugh because just by that statement alone he was proving that he wasn't mature. If his first thought was maturity = being able to beat one up then it was clear that he was very immature. A mature person would resort to talking first over fighting with fist.
This is how I see the adult references and parodies in My little pony. The show is saying "I'm mature I said "spiked the punch" and parodied a scene from a old movie that most kids may or may not know about". Just like my classmate the show is just showing how immature it is. Especially when you realize that most of these "adult references and parodies" are watered down to practically nothing. It isn't like they are saying "The punch has been spiked" and then they take a sip and start walking weird or they wake up with hangovers. The parody scenes in questions don't have the characters reciting lines from the movies they are parodying or acting like the characters in the movie they are based off of. They are at best nods and that is all. A nod isn't anything to really to write home to mother about. Anyone can make a adult reference, even little kids. Does that mean a little kid is now mature because he or she made an reference? No it doesn't not.
BryanV12 forfeited this round.
Now this next argument I like to call my "ace in the hole". It is usually my best argument against MLP's supposed maturity. It is another show comparison. The funny thing about this one though is the show I am about to compare MLP:FiM to isn't considered a mature show at all. In fact in some ways MLP might even be much better than this show. I am talking about the PBS show "Sesame Street". How can a show that is usually about only teaching kids from preschool to about 2nd or 3rd grade about colors, numbers, and letters be more mature than a kids show about ponies going on adventures? Well Sesame Street has done quite a few things that is very mature especially when compared to MLP.
When you mention Sesame Street to people usually the characters that come to mind are Bert, Ernie, Big Bird, The count, and Elmo. The human characters aren't usually thought of. They are still a very important part of the show though and they are major characters even if they aren't puppets. Back in the early 1980's the human character Mr. Hooper passed away. Being that Sesame Street is technically a "baby" show and it's audience usually isn't above age 4 you would think they could have easily dealt with this. There was many ways they could have in fact. They could have made up some thing about him leaving Sesame Street. They could have just replaced him with someone else. They could have went on as if he didn't die and slowly mention him less and less until they would be able to phase him out of the show completely. It wouldn't be hard to make up or take some route and basically stall until the kids at that time grew up and and stopped watching Sesame Street. No they didn't take any of those routes though. They actually embraced his death and turned it into a 5 minute segment to teach kids about death. I wasn't born in 83, so I never really could feel anything for a character I never saw or knew. I went looking for that scene a few years back just to watch it. The scene caused me to cry. It was packed with such emotion and realism that I have never seen before in a kids show. The most amazing part about the scene was Big Bird actually went through some of the stages of grief. He got mad that Mr. Hooper was gone. He got scared and of course he finally accepted it. This scene was very adult and mature especially since they could have sugarcoated it and the kids of then would have been none-the-wiser until they grew up and looked for what ever happened to Mr. Hooper.
The only technical death scene in MLP had the three child characters sing over a funeral. They also made a joke about "this one is too old". That is something you would expect a young kid to do. MLP can't handle the big issues, but a "baby" show such as Sesame Street can, and it doesn't stop there.
Due to the fact we don't live in Africa I won't bring up the puppet that has aids since that is only a African thing. I will bring up one of the newest puppets. It was a puppet that is impoverished. This is another mature issue that the show has brought up. It is especially good because poverty is something a lot of kids can relate to in these times. There are kids who live in families that may have to go days without necessities such as food or clean clothes. Sesame Street realized this and did a segment on this issue as well. Again this is coming from a show that is usually teaching colors, numbers, and letters.
My little pony: Friendship is magic has never shown any character(s) that have to face hunger or go without a certain need because they don't have the money or "bits" to buy it. The characters in the show clearly have jobs. Good ones in fact. Rarity makes clothes that are usually sold to other famous or wealthy characters. Pinkie works in a bakery and lives there as well. Twilight who is now a princess lives in library, but who has ever heard of a poor princess? Applejack has mentioned on a few occasion that she needed money to help her grandmother. Yet her grandmother seems to move just fine without that money and she probably even has a monopoly on the towns apple supply since she does own the only apple farm for miles. I am pretty sure if that is the case she makes plenty of money to take care of herself as well as her family. Rainbow Dash lives in a big house in the clouds and works for the weather. Fluttershy is the only character that seems to be poor, but even she can waste money to buy her pet a special dinner. None of the characters have ever really experienced what it is like to go without something important. The show itself can't even acknowledge death and has canceled a episode about child abandonment. They even are afraid of acknowledging characters with disabilities (Derpy doesn't count FYI).
Yet it is supposed to be a mature show? It isn't even more mature than a show for "babies" that only teaches kids basic things. Yet that baby show has no problem going into death and poverty something MLP will probably never even touch with a ten foot pole..
My little pony: Friendship is Magic is not mature, but Sesame Street is. I always find that funny.
BryanV12 forfeited this round.
I will probably do one more debate which will give me my voting rights here on the site. Until then I got nothing much else to say.
I will say this. MLP:FiM could have been a great show and a excellent reboot, but people just fail to realize certain facts. They also like to believe what isn't there. I guess you could count MLP as being a mature show in the sense of generations it has been on or when comparing it to a far worse show or something. It might be a bit more mature than Phineas and Ferb in that it doesn't follow the same song and dance routine that that show does. I mean lets face it the basic Phineas and Ferb show is:
They want to do something that has never been done before.
They get their friends to help with whatever that thing is.
The sister tries to "bust" them by telling the mother.
A sub plot/story with their spy pet and the not so evil evil guy.
They accomplish whatever it is.
Sister fails (yet again) at "busting" them.
Spy pet defeats not so evil evil guy and returns home.
Rinse and Repeat.
MLP at least has SOME originality when it comes to stories and it CAN be mature or at least have some resemblance of maturity in or during certain episodes. It has also proven it CAN some what change things up a bit even if it is only temporary. I was once told that My little pony: Friendship is magic has potential. I agree fully 100% with that statement. The problem here is that potential means nothing if you go no where with it. Every person on this planet has the potential to do something great or become someone great. If people don't try or decide just to stay where they are at though, then all the potential goes to waste and means nothing in the end.
When Michael Jordan was a young boy he had the potential to become the superstar basketball player he is/was. If he as a child never practiced or played basketball do you think he would have been able to walk on a basketball court and do what he was able to do for all those years? Do you think he would would be able to win a single game? Maybe by luck, but I doubt it.
It is the same here. MLP has plenty of potential to become a great a mature show that all can enjoy for the most part, but if Hasbro keeps the show and the show's creators where they are at now then all of the potential just goes to waste. Just like it has been. Potential doesn't mean diddly squat if nothing is done with it.
I guess that is probably how things are always going to be. If potential isn't recognized or isn't used to its max it just goes to waste. This show is just a perfect example of that. I guess on the bright side there are shows that are mature and do use their potential.
BryanV12 forfeited this round.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by aburk903 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Con contributed to only one round. Con's spelling and grammar was poor, and he contributed no sources. Also noteworthy is Pro's dedication to continue the debate at an academic level when it was unnecessary.
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