The Instigator
The-Hand
Pro (for)
Winning
71 Points
The Contender
GodSands
Con (against)
Losing
1 Points

My opponent is a Christian proselytizer.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 11 votes the winner is...
The-Hand
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/10/2009 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,369 times Debate No: 6459
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (46)
Votes (11)

 

The-Hand

Pro

Let me define the terms.

pros�e�ly�tize� verb- To induce someone to convert to one's faith.
http://www.merriam-webster.com...
Chris�tian adjective- A person who believes in Jesus Christ; adherent of Christianity.
http://www.merriam-webster.com...

My first contention that my opponent is merely a Christian proselytizer is his use of inconsistent and illogical arguments from his previous debates that are similar to those of other proselytizers rather than debaters. One example of his illogically created arguments is his "Santa/Satan" argument that he constantly copies and pastes n his debates, which is usually used out of context. Here is an example of it.

http://www.debate.org...

"As a child you believe in Santa Claus? Most children do. You enjoyed the fact that Santa was a cheerful man, who deserved to give gifts to your children. (If you are a parent you get no credit for Christmas when you have young children as Santa does all the work) You as a Child are born enjoying Christmas every year believe that Santa will come into your house (If Santa was to visit ever house in one night, He would have to spend a 1 millionth of a second at each house) Moving that fast is supernatural. Like the devil who hides, it would be impossible for the eye to see Santa as your eye can only see a maximum of a 20th of a second. So Santa is the devils way for bring in the children into the Physical world (mentioned in my other debate, "Randomness is a lack of knowledge in the Spiritual and Physical world")
As a Child the Devil acts like the child is in control by doing nothing on Christmas and the devil (now known to me as Santa) has the burden of running about after presents. When you Grow older you become the devils slave as you do not believe in Santa and therefore the devil anymore. Making your life style converted by physical not spiritual beliefs. And now as a adult with money "You can not serve two masters, money and God." is more avaible, again more involved in the physical world. So now the burden is on you to run into shops buying gifts you are now the devils slave who has seemed to have disappeared as quickly as Santa did."

More or less, my opponent argues that Santa is Satan and that as an adult you serve both money and God, making many logical fallacies in the above statement.

My second contention is his constant plea for us to get saved that he uses when debating and when commenting on debates. Here are a few examples of this obvious proselytizing.
http://www.debate.org...

The last sentence in his first round and his entire second round is merely the gab that most evangelical and proselytizing Christians use to "convert" the "heathens" that exist in the world.
Other Examples
http://www.debate.org...
1st and 2nd comment
http://www.debate.org...
Last sentence in first round and last round
http://www.debate.org...
Again first comment.

The statements in general do not really offer any substance, or reason other than the threat of hellfire (which can be debated on). The last statements also presents a sort of Catch 22: if you vote for GodSands, he wins the actual debate, but if you do not vote for GodSands, he wins because he told you not to vote for him and to go get saved.

I await my opponents response to my two contentions, in the meantime, VOTE PRO!
GodSands

Con

I will pick out your lies first before anything else, so every one can see they will vote for a liar.

"as an adult you serve both money and God, making many logical fallacies in the above statement."- This is a lie, I said you can not serve both money and God. Not both. Only one. Either God. Or money. Every one who does not serve God serves money. And people who do not serve monet serve God. I f you have two bosses you will be more loyal to one.

"Whatever happens was planned long ago. Everyone knows what people are like. No one can argue with God, who is stronger than anyone. The more you say, the more useless it is. What good does it do?" Ecclesisstes7:10-11

Who are you to critisize? You know no reasoning to this universe, so why critisize?

Because through science if you find the structure of the universe, that would be God. Give me one thing which does not have structure? If I take structure away from anything it would not exist. So take a structure away from the universe, it also would not exist.

The benifiets of being like Jesus Christ are:

You will never be down or unhappy, because what made you unhappy was because of stress and work, money and friends. You will always be happy In the presents of God.

You will never curse (swear also) and laugh at people in need. You will never run from any problem. You will never die. You will only life.

You will become more intelligent and knowledgeable. You will be more heathly you will laugh more and make others laugh more and live long.

You will become more wealthy, because you see physical things as unworthly and you will give money to the poor and God will see this, making you wealthy so you have more money to give. The more you give God will give you even more in what you gave away.

These things are all Good and God is Good and perfect.

I promise you that. To my dying day.

See you around. My friend.
Debate Round No. 1
The-Hand

Pro

He never defends himself in any of his arguments by the way.

//I will pick out your lies first before anything else, so every one can see they will vote for a liar.

"as an adult you serve both money and God, making many logical fallacies in the above statement."- This is a lie, I said you can not serve both money and God. Not both. Only one. Either God. Or money. Every one who does not serve God serves money. And people who do not serve monet serve God. I f you have two bosses you will be more loyal to one."//
In this argument, you assume there are only two bosses, God and money. What about people serving power, or a human master, assuming two bosses seems rather closed minded and absolute doesn't it?

//"Whatever happens was planned long ago. Everyone knows what people are like. No one can argue with God, who is stronger than anyone. The more you say, the more useless it is. What good does it do?" Ecclesisstes7:10-11

Who are you to critisize? You know no reasoning to this universe, so why critisize?//
I am not arguing with God at all as the scripture you put up states, I am arguing that you are a Christian proselytizer based on evidence I put in my first post rather than a debater, and using The Bible for your argument reinforces the fact to a small degree.

//Because through science if you find the structure of the universe, that would be God. Give me one thing which does not have structure? If I take structure away from anything it would not exist. So take a structure away from the universe, it also would not exist.//
How is this a fact at all? This is more or less your own opinion supported by no facts and faulty logic that assumes "God" did it all, aka a God of the gaps fact aka proselytizing yet again rather than humanely debating me.

These following arguments my opponent put up have nothing to do with the resolution.

//The benifiets of being like Jesus Christ are:
You will never be down or unhappy, because what made you unhappy was because of stress and work, money and friends. You will always be happy In the presents of God.//
So Jesus wasn't unhappy when the money brokers were in the Church? Is whipping people something a happy person would do??

//You will never curse (swear also) and laugh at people in need. You will never run from any problem. You will never die. You will only life.//
Yes, in fact you are also supposed to give up all of your possessions in order to follow Jesus as well, I like how you conveniently omitted that as well.

//You will become more intelligent and knowledgeable. You will be more heathly you will laugh more and make others laugh more and live long.//
Because Christians have a longer life span than everyone else right? How is it knowledgeable to constantly spew out random bible drivel? You are making a lot of assumptions in these arguments.
//You will become more wealthy, because you see physical things as unworthly and you will give money to the poor and God will see this, making you wealthy so you have more money to give. The more you give God will give you even more in what you gave away.//
This is only for giving money to the poor for the right God right? Giving money for Allah or any other God besides YHWH doesn't give you any good feelings? Prove this to me.

So far, most of my opponents arguments against me have been the same kind of proselytizing that he has done in his previous debates. He has not given me any proof that he is not a proselytizer at all, and the proof he has given me has easily been disproved using logical discourse and simple assertions. I wish my opponent luck in his response yet again, and urge you to vote con.
GodSands

Con

I do not defend myself but God as I live for Him. Jesus said go out and spread the gosple.

"I am arguing that you are a Christian proselytizer based on evidence I put in my first post rather than a debater, and using The Bible for your argument reinforces the fact to a small degree."

"How is this a fact at all? This is more or less your own opinion supported by no facts and faulty logic that assumes "God" did it all, aka a God of the gaps fact aka proselytizing yet again rather than humanely debating me."

A structure is something that hold something together. It is also the shape.

Jesus did not come to earth to enjoy his self but suffer for us so that we can be saved. God is Jesus in flesh. Therefore Jesus was perfect.

"Because Christians have a longer life span than everyone else right?" Who is a Christian? The Bible says you will life longer.

So far my friends arugment has not changed my. This would mean go back to sin. Do you want me to sin, because you do.

My friend, we live together. On the same planet, why do you choose to make me sin. Is that not why the world is evil?
Debate Round No. 2
The-Hand

Pro

Your entire argument is off topic, and you concede in the first sentence.

You feel that God needs to be part of all shapes, this doesn't support your argument at all and instead supports mine.

You think the Bible says you will live life longer, this is not relevant and supports my argument.

I extend all of my arguments, and urge the voters to vote pro since con has not posted any effective arguments and has proselytized just like I talked about in the resolution.
I again thank my opponent, and wish him good luck in his closing argument.
GodSands

Con

I do not understand what you want me to say. All you say will change nothing as who are you to change anything?

You wake up and live your life and then sleep again. You do not even know why you do that. But you only feel awake and you only feel tired. But you do not know why. You do not know why money is important and therefore why you work. You do not understand why people do not get along. You do not understand why you hate people or hate being around someone. You do not understand anything about the universe. Because all you say will change nothing. But do something and it will change everything.

You can only do good or evil. You will serve one more than the other. I say this because I know you will go to hell if you do not change and heaven if you do.

Thank you. I hope you enjoyed this?
Debate Round No. 3
46 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Metz 8 years ago
Metz
How can the Bible Be True GodSands? If it is so holy, then why was alot of it written by a Pagan Roman Emperor?
Posted by Metz 8 years ago
Metz
GodSands.... A question that should be simple for you...

Assuming God Exists
Who's God is the true God? and Why?
Posted by DiablosChaosBroker 8 years ago
DiablosChaosBroker
You don't know Jesus or God, but you say you do.
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
I would not judge. I see no point in it. I would not judge anybody if you knew whats good for you.
Posted by KRFournier 8 years ago
KRFournier
Conduct - Con - While I am consistently disappointed with Con's poor debating practices, I do not condone creating debates emphasizing that fact.

Spelling and Grammar - Pro - Unfortunately, this is always an auto-point for GodSands' opponents.

Convincing Argument - Tie - Given the definition of proselytizer, I think we all proselytize to some extent. Debating is all about inducing others into your worldview. In this sense, the resolution is practically an auto-win. Granted, the term is usually applied to those of religious affiliation and often meant with derision. While I personally feel that Pro has a point, I will not grant him debate points for reasons explained in this comment.

Reliable Sources - Tie - Pro's sources to back his resolution are reliable, but since they only serve to point out Pro's frustration with Con's poor debating skills, I will not grant this point to Pro either.

I view this debate as a shameful attempt at an easy win. I don't believe for a second anyone takes GodSands seriously as a debator. I myself have been unable to grant him votes for convincing arguments. This debate is unnecessary and tantamount to bullying.

Pro, your first and (currently) only debate on this website builds yourself up by putting down someone easy to put down. I hope your future debates exhibit better conduct.
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
You do not know Jesus like me. Or you do not know God like a father.
Posted by DiablosChaosBroker 8 years ago
DiablosChaosBroker
Making illogical comments that didn't come from the teachings of Jesus.
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
What have I done wrong to you? Im going to bed. Ill see your comment in the morning. Take care.
Posted by DiablosChaosBroker 8 years ago
DiablosChaosBroker
"I am only trying to Help!!!"

Go back to school. You need it.
Posted by DiablosChaosBroker 8 years ago
DiablosChaosBroker
"I am starting to think you are a troll."

That's what everyone is beginning to think.
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