The Instigator
mongeese
Pro (for)
Losing
31 Points
The Contender
Maikuru
Con (against)
Winning
40 Points

NCIS is the best TV show.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/17/2009 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 6,566 times Debate No: 8324
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (19)
Votes (15)

 

mongeese

Pro

I think that the TV show NCIS is the best TV show.
NCIS - http://en.wikipedia.org...(TV_series)

Best - excelling all others (http://www.merriam-webster.com...)
TV show - http://en.wikipedia.org...

Naturally, the term "best" is subjective.
My opponent will choose one (1) other TV show, and we will debate over which TV show is better based on their pros and cons. Anything possibly relevant to being a pro or con to a TV show is acceptable.

This first round will just be for greetings and TV show selection.

I await my opponent's choice.
Maikuru

Con

Thanks to mongeese for introducing this fun topic. I'll take any opportunity I can get to discuss tv =D

My stance will be that NCIS is not the best television show. Specifically, I will argue that it is surpassed by a far superior show: Seinfeld [1].

I agree with my opponent's definitions and with his take on the subjectivity of this debate. However, I intend to demonstrate Seinfeld's superiority through both subjective and objective measures.

Lastly, I ask the audience to momentarily put aside any existing opinions they have on these shows and judge which they find to be best according to the evidence we present. Thanks and enjoy!

::References::

1. http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 1
mongeese

Pro

Alright, then, NCIS vs. Seinfeld.

Contention 1: Plotline
In NCIS, the plotline is about a field team for NCIS solving cases involving the U.S. Marines, along with the random disputes and feuds among the individual members of the team, with random twists being introduced in almost every episode. Plotlines are very often connected between episodes, with some underlying plotlines appearing throughout the entire show in various episodes. The plots also include murder, kidnapping, terrorism, and twisted relationships.
In Seinfeld, the plotlines are about a group of people doing random things. This has little continuation, and very little point. I mean, the entire show is based around the idea that life is pointless.

Contention 2: Running Time
NCIS has a running time of 42-44 minutes. Seinfeld has a running time of 21-22 minutes. Plotlines can be much deeper when there is more time involved, and you can jam more action into one show. This also means that there is more NCIS out there than Seinfeld, with Seinfeld having approximately 64.5 hours of running time, while NCIS has 98 hours and counting. This means that a guy who wanted to watch all Seinfeld episodes wouldn't get as much entertainment as a guy watching all NCIS episodes.
NCIS also has four episodes that are two-part, allowing for a movie-length episode with plenty of action and climax.

Contention 3: Cinematography
The way that the NCIS producers filmed NCIS is unique. The producers decided that they would film things in any way, except the normal way. This lead to the zoom-in and zoom-out cut-frames, the quickened time through cut-frames, and the unique "gray photograph" that appears to add more suspense and reveal scenes before they occur. Finally, NCIS gets to begin each episode not with the team, but with some unsuspecting individuals who either come across the dead body, or die. NCIS also has the advantage of having more advanced technology and clarity to use in their filming.

Contention 4: Characters
"And there's also a family dynamic that's like growing up in an American dysfunctional family. You know, you've got the father, the strange sibling rivalries going on and the weird grandpa in the basement with the dead bodies. You know, like everyone's family." - Michael Weatherly (http://www.tv.com...)
The characters are a divorced ex-Marine with a gruff attitude, an immature, movie-going slacker/success, a computer geek, a gothic forensic scientist, a supposedly sane woman (replaced by a Mossad agent with "crazy ninja skills"), and an old medical examiner who rambles on to the living and has conversations with the dead. The team overall ends up with great chemistry and crazy relationships, and people have called NCIS mostly character-based, which is a change from most action-based shows such as CSI and 24.

So, I await my opponent's responses to these contentions, as well as his own.
Maikuru

Con

Thanks for the quick reply, mongeese.

C1: Plotline

My opponent presented an excellent plot summary of NCIS. Had Pro removed the words "U.S. Marines," he would have also presented an excellent summary of CSI, Law & Order, The Unit, J.A.G, Cold Case, and numerous similar crime dramas. The few superficial differences between these shows do not disguise their collective unoriginality.

Seinfeld avoids the sin of sitcom similarity by completely abandoning the idea of a set plot. By keeping only the characters constant, the show works with a free-form style that allows constant change and originality. In fact, embracing its status as "a show about nothing" was a defining feature of the series [1], freeing it from the traps of predictability and elevating it above its peers

C2: Running Time

Pro claims that NCIS' longer running time is a point of superiority. Of course, this is only relevant if NCIS is superior or equal to Seinfeld in terms of entertainment value. I could easily argue that Seinfeld has produced more individual episodes, thus more complete stories than has NCIS. Still, an argument on quantity only bears weight once quality has been determined.

C3: Cinematography

My opponent considers the editing style of NCIS to be unique and entertaining. Regular television viewers, however, recognize these tricks to be hardly unique (similar techniques are used in CSI, 24, Cold Case, Battlestar Galactica, etc.) and often used to bolster weak storytelling. What Pro is describing are empty simply bells and whistles, identifying NCIS as a standard crime drama.

C4: Characters

Pro considers the characters on NCIS to be one of its strong suits. I find this ironic considering the characters on Seinfeld are some of the most iconic, popular, and celebrated of all time [2][3]. In addition to its 4 stars, Seinfeld is also famous for its plethora of unique and memorable supporting cast [4][5]. Honestly, a group of stereotypical character types – "a divorced ex-Marine with a gruff attitude…a computer geek, a gothic forensic scientist" – can in no way compare to the pop culture icons that are the cast of Seinfeld!

::Pro-Seinfeld Points::

1. Ratings

In its 6 seasons on the air, NCIS averaged 16th in the ratings and brought in an average of 15 million viewers [6]. Compare this to 6 seasons of Seinfeld, which averaged an amazing 6th in the ratings and brought in roughly 19 million viewers [7]. In addition, the show's finale brought in a staggering 76 million people [8], making it the third most watched series finale in history. Given that ratings are the most common and reliable tool used in gauging a show's popularity, this presents a clear edge for Seinfeld in terms of consistent entertainment value.

2. Awards

Seinfeld remains one of the most critically acclaimed series in television history [9]. Here are some highlights:

• Emmys: Won - 10, Nominated – 68
• Golden Globes: Won - 3, Nominated – 15
• SAG Awards: Won - 6, Nominated – 17
• People's Choice Awards: Won - 3, Nominated - 4

In all, the show has won 38 awards and has been nominated 131 times. NCIS, on the other hand, has not earned a single win or nomination under any category for any award (please correct me if I overlooked something). According to those organizations designed to judge tv show quality, there is no question which is superior here.

3. Recognition

Seinfeld is already widely accepted as one of the best tv shows of all time [10][11][12]. Widespread recognition and acceptance on this level are rare, gracing only those shows whose ingenious storytelling and lasting appeal entertain those from all walks of life. In terms of mass appeal, Seinfeld's dominance over NCIS is unquestionable.

::Closing::

I have already shown Seinfeld to be superior to NCIS in terms of characters, storylines, consistency, popularity, critical acclaim, and mass appeal. I'll include additional arguments, such as originality and revenue earned, next round.

::References::

1. http://www.nytimes.com...
2. http://en.wikipedia.org...
3. http://www.pastemagazine.com...
4. http://www.extratextual.tv...
5. http://www.uncoached.com...
6. http://en.wikipedia.org...(TV_series)
7. http://en.wikipedia.org...
8. http://www.nytimes.com...
9. http://en.wikipedia.org...
10. http://www.time.com...
11. http://www.cbsnews.com...
12. http://www.ew.com...
Debate Round No. 2
mongeese

Pro

"Had Pro removed the words 'U.S. Marines,' he would have also presented an excellent summary of CSI, Law & Order, The Unit, J.A.G, Cold Case, and numerous similar crime dramas. The few superficial differences between these shows do not disguise their collective unoriginality."
Not really. NCIS is much more character driven, as opposed to the other crime dramas, which are mostly case driven.
"NCIS (Naval Criminal Investigative Service) is more than just an action drama. With liberal doses of humor, it's a show that focuses on the sometimes complex and always amusing dynamics of a team forced to work together in high-stress situations."[1]

"Still, an argument on quantity only bears weight once quality has been determined."
Alright, then.

"What Pro is describing are empty simply bells and whistles, identifying NCIS as a standard crime drama."
NCIS is far more than standard, although it does use the neat camera tricks. Using them does not imply weak storytelling.

"Honestly, a group of stereotypical character types – 'a divorced ex-Marine with a gruff attitude…a computer geek, a gothic forensic scientist' – can in no way compare to the pop culture icons that are the cast of Seinfeld!"
Since when is a gothic forensic scientist a stereotype? I'd like to ask where you get stereotypes for these characters, and what characters precede them:
Leroy Jethro Gibbs [2]
Anthony DiNozzo [3]
Ziva David [4]
Timothy McGee [5]
Dr. Donald "Ducky" Mallard [6]
Abby Sciuto [7]
Leon Vance [6]
Jimmy Palmer [6]
Tobias Fornell [6]
Mike Franks [6]
Caitlin "Kate" Todd [8]
Jenny Shepherd [6]

Now, about your ratings. There are flaws. For one thing, those six seasons happen to have been the final six seasons of Seinfeld, so only the first six seasons can properly be compared to NCIS in terms of popularity. Furthermore, all TV shows are increasing in quality due to technology, technically, which means that TV shows now are ranked behind where they would be ten years ago.

"In addition, the show's finale brought in a staggering 76 million people, making it the third most watched series finale in history."
Seeing as NCIS hasn't had a finale yet, this point doesn't really have anything.

Awards:
NCIS has actually been nominated for ten awards, and won six of them. That's a sixty percent winning record, which beats Seinfeld's 29%, which is a good sign for NCIS's award-filled future. [9]
Additionally, NCIS hasn't run for its entire lifetime, so it will naturally expect to see more awards in the future.

And as for recognition, again, this happens over time. Time and quality both contribute to popularity, awards, ratings, recognition, etc. However, quality is the only part that this debate is about, so any parts that are closely associated with time hold less weight.

"I have already shown Seinfeld to be superior to NCIS in terms of characters, storylines, consistency, popularity, critical acclaim, and mass appeal. I'll include additional arguments, such as originality and revenue earned, next round."
Characters, storylines, and consistency are still under debate. Popularity, critical acclaim, and mass appeal are largely due to running time and the decade. So, yes, all of your contentions for Seinfeld can all be attributed to time, rather than quality.

1. http://www.cbs.com...
2. http://en.wikipedia.org...
3. http://en.wikipedia.org...
4. http://en.wikipedia.org...
5. http://en.wikipedia.org...
6. http://en.wikipedia.org...
7. http://en.wikipedia.org...
8. http://en.wikipedia.org...
9. http://www.imdb.com...
Maikuru

Con

Thanks again for the quick reply.

C1: Plotline

A crime drama focusing on team dynamics is not innovative [1][2][3], whereas the transformative and unique storytelling of Seinfeld has yet to be attacked by my opponent. Its originality and entertainment value are unquestioned.

C2: Running Time

This point has been conceded by my opponent.

C3: Cinematography

Pro reiterates that NCIS employs "neat camera tricks," but does not address similar techniques used on numerous similar shows (e.g. CSI, 24, Cold Case). What was intended to differentiate the show has simply made it more of the same.

C4: Characters

Pro claims that the characters on NCIS are not stereotypes. Despite the obvious falsehood of this statement (unless rough military vets, computer geeks, and dark-haired goths are original concepts), it also doesn't prove these characters are superior to those on Seinfeld. Frankly, this is an impossible task, as Seinfeld's cast is one of the most celebrated in tv history.

::Pro-Seinfeld Points::

1. Ratings

Pro claims the differences in seasons negate the ratings data. Firstly, these superior Seinfeld ratings were obtained during seasons that were considered weaker than earlier seasons [4]. Secondly, Seinfeld surpassed NCIS in average ratings and viewers for those seasons both shows shared (i.e. seasons 4-6) [5][6].

Also, since the topic asks which show is superior now, not in the future, the astounding ratings and revenue produced by the Seinfeld finale are incredibly relevant. Lastly, Pro's point on technology influencing ratings was confusing and not sourced. I ask him to please clarify and provide sources so I may reply next round.

2. Awards

By the end of its 6th season, Seinfeld had already won 20 awards (3x that of NCIS) and been nominated 71 times (7x that of NCIS) [7]. These figures show the utter dominance of Seinfeld over NCIS in terms of critical recognition and acclaim, even in its first 6 seasons.

As a side note, Pro's argument that NCIS has a higher ‘win ratio' in ridiculous. Percents may be important on DDO, but nominations alone are proof of a show's quality and regard.

3. Recognition

Pro concedes that Seinfeld is considered one of the best shows ever. He only argues that much of this recognition is based on the show's duration. Unfortunately, this complaint is both unintuitive (unpopular shows don't last 9 seasons) and irrelevant. Because the resolution concerns which show is better now, not in the future, Seinfeld's recognition stands as a point of superiority.

4. Influence & Longevity

In terms of longevity, memorability, and public influence, Seinfeld greatly exceeds NCIS. The storylines have become a part of pop culture, using humor to break ground on controversial issues [8] and becoming a part of our cultural history [9]. Such popularity and impact have led to its longevity, with Seinfeld reruns still making millions in revenue and producing higher ratings than prime time television [10]. Given that a show's ultimate goal is public recognition and appreciation, these facts solidity Seinfeld as the better show.

::Closing::

Pro argues Seinfeld has gained popularity only because it has been around longer. Unfortunately for him, this does not explain Seinfeld's superior storytelling, characters, and why it received higher ratings and more awards than NCIS during the same time span. Add to this Seinfeld's widespread recognition, influence, longevity, and revenue and there is no contest.

::References::

1. http://www.cbs.com...
2. http://www.cbs.com...
3. http://www.cbs.com...
4. http://www.time.com...
5. http://en.wikipedia.org...
6. http://en.wikipedia.org...(TV_series)
7. http://en.wikipedia.org...
8. http://www.associatedcontent.com...
9. http://www.washingtonpost.com...
10. http://www.iconocast.com...
Debate Round No. 3
mongeese

Pro

"A crime drama focusing on team dynamics is not innovative..."
So? I'll bet that the first crime drama was great. Anything else wouldn't seem as creative, but it would be equally great. The massive number of crime dramas really just weighs down NCIS's ratings.

"Its originality and entertainment value are unquestioned."
Then I shall question it. I don't get why people want to watch other people act life being pointless. I just don't get it. It hardly has any plotline.

"What was intended to differentiate the show has simply made it more of the same."
Actually, it was intended to show that it made the show cooler. This particular point has not been disputed, and thus has been conceded. Thus, NCIS's camera tricks are cool.

"Pro claims that the characters on NCIS are not stereotypes..."
Well, you didn't exactly prove me wrong. You continuously claim that the characters are stereotypical, but you don't support it with facts. Besides, in a direct comparison between NCIS and Seinfeld, stereotypes don't even really matter, because that only applies if you compare NCIS with other crime dramas. Because that is not the comparison, stereotypes are irrelevant.

"Ratings... Awards... Recognition... Influence & Longevity..."
All of these points have one fatal flaw. They aren't just based on the greatness of the show. Had Seinfeld first been released at the same time as NCIS, it would be as great as it was last decade, but it would lack all of the above points. For ratings and awards, the show was directly compared with the shows that played at the same time as itself.
"Lastly, Pro's point on technology influencing ratings was confusing and not sourced. I ask him to please clarify and provide sources so I may reply next round."
I apologize that this contention doesn't exactly have a specific source, but logic instead. Here goes:
Technology is always improving over time.
Technology in filming has improved, as well, from more realistic-looking fake blood to improved cameras that can get better zooming, angles, etc.
TV shows have also bet getting better over the years, on average, due to improved acting classes, show writers learning from the masters and reviewing past shows to borrow their best qualities, and the like.
With improved technology and plotlines/acting, TV shows have gotten better over the years.
Thus, when Seinfeld received its ratings and awards, it was only comparable to other shows in the era. NCIS and Seinfeld don't compete for the same awards, and it is now harder to receive the best ratings and awards, due to TV shows being better, so awards and ratings become irrelevant.

"Because the resolution concerns which show is better now, not in the future, Seinfeld's recognition stands as a point of superiority."
Actually, NCIS is currently better than Seinfeld. However, Seinfeld has existed longer, which means that more people watch it. Had NCIS existed at the time of Seinfeld, with Seinfeld being filmed now, and neither show was changed in filming at all, NCIS would have the great reputation instead, and Seinfeld would still be earning its reputation as NCIS is now. This is why recognition does not properly reflect the show itself, but rather its time period, so it is irrelevant. It was acceptable for you to try, but I have proven it to be irrelevant.

"Given that a show's ultimate goal is public recognition and appreciation, these facts solidity Seinfeld as the better show."
However, this is not about which show has achieved its ultimate goal, but which show is better. Because it takes time, rather than quality, to achieve the goal, the goal becomes irrelevant.

"Unfortunately for him, this does not explain Seinfeld's superior storytelling, characters, and why it received higher ratings and more awards than NCIS during the same time span."
You have not argued at all about storytelling and characters, but rather about how NCIS's are supposedly based entirely off of other shows. For one thing, the comparison to CSI is irrelevant, and for another, NCIS's characters are better than Seinfeld's. Seinfeld has only four characters, compared to NCIS's multitude of characters, and NCIS is famous for its character-driven sub-plots. The ratings and awards only compare Seinfeld with surrounding shows, as opposed to future shows.

That's another point I'd like to make. In most shows I watch, the characters all split up into two sub-plots, and come into little contact with each other. In NCIS, all of the characters are involved in one big case, and then two or three of the characters end up with their own little sub-plot that ties in with the case. It's great.

There are also inter-character relationships:
DiNozzo makes fun of McGee.
DiNozzo flirts with Kate.
DiNozzo flirts with Ziva, and is her rival.
McGee flirts with Abby.
Gibbs buys Abby CAFF-Pows.
Gibbs slaps DiNozzo.
Gibbs then slaps McGee and Ziva/Kate.
Gibbs had a previous affair with Jenny.
Gibbs builds a boat in his basement named after his daughter.

"Add to this Seinfeld's widespread recognition, influence, longevity, and revenue and there is no contest."
And yet, all of these are not pure reflections of Seinfeld's quality, but of its timeframe.

Now, because I have about 3,000 characters left, I will include funny quotes from NCIS:

Sacks: This guy is implicated in a homicide and he's making jokes!
Fornell: You've never worked with NCIS before, have you, Agent Sacks?

Dennis: NCIS. Never heard of it.
Gibbs: That's embarrassing.
Dennis: NCIS anything like CSI?
Tony: Only if you're dyslexic.

Tony: Five years with Gibbs? Amazed the guy didn't end up in a straitjacket.
Gibbs: What was that?
Tony: Uh, nothing, Boss, just praising your communication skills.

Tony: Gibbs'll get in. He's got clearance that'll let him see the dead aliens at Area 51.
Kate: 'Cause he probably killed them.

Gibbs: I'm Special Agent Gibbs. The same agency you haven't heard of before. Only I don't take it personally any more.

Gibbs: McGee -- less talk, more of the computer chip doo-da.
McGee: McGee with the doo-da.
Fornell: Doo-da?
Gibbs: Yeah, it's a computer term ... you wouldn't understand.

Tony: Okay, relax, quick-draw. We're feds.
Security Officer: Oh yeah? What agency?
Tony: N -
Ziva: NCIS.
Security Officer: Never heard of it.
Ziva: Naval Criminal Investigative Service.
Security Officer: Never heard of it.
Tony: (to Ziva) You never actually get used to it. You think you will, but you never do.

(Gibbs and Tony are in the boxing ring)
Tony: Did you learn to box in the Marines?
Gibbs: The Corps doesn't teach boxing.
Tony: Your loss.
(Gibbs takes Tony apart and leaves him flat on his back, winded and hurting)
Gibbs: They teach fighting.

All quotes from:
http://cbsncis.wetpaint.com...
http://cbsncis.wetpaint.com...
http://cbsncis.wetpaint.com...
http://cbsncis.wetpaint.com...
http://cbsncis.wetpaint.com...

So, in conclusion, NCIS has great, in-depth plotlines, that are irrelevantly similar to other shows, it has cool cinematography, it uses technology unheard of in the time of Seinfeld, and its characters, when put together, form the most hilarious cast ever seen, even greater than Seinfeld, and are supposedly and irrelevantly stereotypes. Everything about ratings, awards, recognition, etc. are irrelevant. Thus, NCIS wins, and is better than Seinfeld. Vote PRO.
Maikuru

Con

Thanks to mongeese for the fun debate.

Because my opponent has presented little new information this last round, I will summarize what conclusions have been drawn thus far about both shows.

1. Plotline

Pro concedes that NCIS' storyline is unoriginal, but humorously claims that means it must is good. In reality, this only means it is clich�d. I have shown Seinfeld's story to be original, admired, and yet to be successfully replicated. Pro's rebuttal: "I just don't get it."

2. Running Time

My opponent has conceded this point for 2 rounds.

3. Cinematography

Pro has refused to acknowledge my argument that near-identical "camera tricks" are used by numerous other shows, reinforcing NCIS as just another crime drama.

4. Characters

Pro claims the characters on NCIS are superior because he thinks they are. On the other hand, I have provided evidence that Seinfeld not only has a wider cast of characters, but also that its main characters are far more celebrated than those of NCIS. Add on this fan approval with approval from the critics and it is clear which cast is superior.

5. Ratings

Seinfeld has placed higher in ratings, viewer totals, and top 10 placements for all 6 of NCIS' seasons. My opponent has not and cannot refute this fact. Instead, he complained that ratings are skewed because shows were less impressive during Seinfeld's day. Not only is this point completely immaterial, it actually works against his case. If more people are watching television today than 10 years ago, the fact that Seinfeld still had more viewers than NCIS does now shows just how much better it is.

6. Awards

Seinfeld won 3 times the awards and received 7 times the nominations of NCIS during the same time span. Afterward, Seinfeld went on to receive an additional 18 awards and 60 nominations. To match this performance, NCIS would have to receive more honors in the next three years than is physically possible. Pro tries to credit Seinfeld's awards to its longevity, which clearly makes no sense as Seinfeld received its awards while still on the air.

7. Recognition

Seinfeld has amassed far more public recognition than NCIS and is widely recognized as one of the best shows ever made. Once again, Pro has not and cannot refute this fact. Notice my opponent's lack of sources showing any amount of public recognition for NCIS. This was not an oversight, but rather a sad truth of the show; NCIS is simply not as well received as Seinfeld.

8. Influence & Longevity

Seinfeld has become a pop culture icon, influencing media and society on a level reserved for only the most distinguished series. It has and continues to produce amazing amounts of revenue and still out-performs new primetime shows. Pro has not offered a single claim that NCIS can match any these feats, despite the fact that it has been on the air for 6 years now.

::Conclusion::

Note that my opponent has not presented any actual evidence showing NCIS as superior. Instead, he has spent this entire debate simply explaining why he personally prefers the show. Sadly, his preference could not stand up to scrutiny; I have shown NCIS' premise to be clich�d, its editing to be overused, and its characters to be painfully obvious stereotypes.

In the mean time, Seinfeld shined in nearly every category presented. It's considered better by fans because of original storytelling and beloved characters. TV critics prefer it, rewarding it 3 times the awards of NCIS. It's better liked by the viewing public, producing ratings that surpassed NCIS every single season. It even became a part of our culture in ways NCIS has not begun to approach, nor likely ever will. While Pro may complain that Seinfeld's success is due to its age, such longevity is just another point in its favor.

The choice is clear, vote Con. Happy Festivus!
Debate Round No. 4
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
I don't care. I won't let any record think that my opinion on the greatness of NCIS is neutral.
Posted by Maikuru 7 years ago
Maikuru
Voting tab or no, the B/A categories are pointless haha. This may have been the last time I actually used them.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
lol, I just realized that I left the B/A as "Tied."
Posted by Maikuru 7 years ago
Maikuru
You make some valid points and I appreciate the constructive criticism. Welcome to DDO =D
Posted by decachild 7 years ago
decachild
This was a poor debate over all. I am a big fan of both shows. Really, it was a pissing match. You were not debating the merit of each other arguments for the most part, but rather whether they were relevant (and you both seemed to ignore each other's comments and continue on a tangent in regards to irrelevance). You both through out a lot of vague accusations without much support or examples (especially in regards to originality) if a famous computer geek is a cliche, give an example of another one in a crime drama. Everything I have mentioned thus far happened on both sides, but a lot more via Maikuru. Good ideas though, just pay more attention to what the other says and please, debate in the spirit of debate, not on petty technicalities. Also, the resolution should not have been so vague, comparing Sienfeld to NCIS is like comparing apples and oranges, it should have only allowed for similar styles of shows or shows with the same general age (which is a large part of what caused the poor quality of the debate).
Posted by Maikuru 7 years ago
Maikuru
I want to thank those voters who reviewed this debate following my unforuntate bombing. Given mongeese's solid performance here as well, I'm sure RFD's would be really appreciated by both sides =D
Posted by bored 7 years ago
bored
NCIS isn't that good but it is kind of addicting..on all the time on USA. It's better than Seinfeld anyway. Since i don't care enough to read all of those arguments (sry!) i'll not vote. Funny debate tho:)
Posted by Maikuru 7 years ago
Maikuru
I didn't argue that being cliched is bad, just that it isn't better than originality. This is doubly true since Seinfeld has been praised for its originality, whereas NCIS has no such accolades.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
And why, exactly, was "just another crime drama" bad?
Posted by Maikuru 7 years ago
Maikuru
Alright, time to go back to Spidey. Costanza is beginning to creep me out.

C: Tie
S & G: Tie - A few things here and there but nothing that blurred understanding.
A: Con - Pro's arguments were entirely subjective and weakly supported. Con provided both subjective and objective evidence, much of which was side-stepped in the last round.
S: Con - The majority of Pro's sources were either character quotes or bios, whereas Pro's sources were largely articles or evidence-based.

All in all, a fun one mongeese =D
15 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by shadow835 6 years ago
shadow835
mongeeseMaikuruTied
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Vote Placed by M.Hernandez 6 years ago
M.Hernandez
mongeeseMaikuruTied
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Vote Placed by philosphical 7 years ago
philosphical
mongeeseMaikuruTied
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Vote Placed by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
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Vote Placed by Danielle 7 years ago
Danielle
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Vote Placed by decachild 7 years ago
decachild
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Vote Placed by patsox834 7 years ago
patsox834
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Vote Placed by tribefan011 7 years ago
tribefan011
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Vote Placed by untitled_entity 7 years ago
untitled_entity
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Vote Placed by Marine1 7 years ago
Marine1
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