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The Contender
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Narendra Modi shuld be the next PM of india

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/20/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 38,591 times Debate No: 33901
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (23)
Votes (1)




yes he must be.


I accept the debate. I assume the first round is for acceptance. Looking forward for an enriching debate :)
Debate Round No. 1


I thank con for accepting this debate,before i start my argument i would like to know con's thoughts on this debate.


Okay. Welcome to the site :)

Lets begin. The debate is in reference to the 2014 elections that are going to be pivotal for India. There are two major political parties, Congress and the BJP, who have a fair chance of bagging the rights of ruling the country.

What needs to be understood, while trying to form a well considered decision regarding the future political party, is that India is a parliamentary democracy. So, while the position of Prime Minister is important, it is even more important to consider their parties, and the platform of their parties, and whether that platform is conductive for the country.

So while laying down my platform, I need to explain 1. Why Narendra Modi won’t be a good Prime Minister. 2. Why BJP’s Platform is catastrophic for the country. 3. Why Rahul Gandhi and Congress are a better alternative.

  1. Narendra Modi is a genocide orchestrating murderer: There is considerable evidence of the fact that the murderous response to the 2002 Gujarat riots was anchored by the state machinery under the orders under the orders of Narendra Modi.

    The New York Times' Celia Dugger reported that witnesses were "dismayed by the lack of intervention from local police", who often "watched the events taking place and took no action against the attacks on Muslims and their property".[43] Human Rights Watch reported that in some cases members of the state police force led rioting mobs, "aiming and firing at every Muslim who got in the way", or instead of offering assistance "led the victims directly into the hands of their killers."[44] Calls for assistance to the police, fire brigades, and even ambulance services generally proved futile.”

In fact, the US department of states, commented on the episode in their International Religious Freedom Report 2003, stating that,

“"India's National Human Rights Commission (NHRC), an official body, found evidence in the killings of premeditation by members of Hindu extremist groups; complicity by Gujarat state government officials; and police inaction in the midst of attacks. The NHRC also noted "widespread reports and allegations of well-organized persons, armed with mobile telephones and addresses, singling out certain homes and properties for death and destruction in certain districts-sometimes within view of police stations and personnel," suggesting the attacks may have been planned in advance."

Even if we disregard the US report, smack in the middle of the riots, Indian PM Mr. Atal Bihari Vajpayee stated that “ Once the Parliament passes the resolution by concensus, it is a notice to the Gujarat government to act. “ [1] Considering that this was a statement that possibly indicted his own party, the implicit charge becomes more serious. The statement mirrors the widespread acknowledgement of the fact that Modi was responsible for indicting genocide against Muslims, for their role in burning the Godhara Express and the Hindus in them.

Now, a person being touted as the next PM of India CANNOT be a religious zealot. Considering the wide variety of religions in India, having a Hindu fanatic as a national figure, apart from being insensitive to the religious minorities, is positively catastrophic for the country as a whole. What we need, is a leader that handles thecommunal situations intelligently, who de-emphasizes religion in the state.

Sadly, Narendra Modi isn’t one of them.

2. Corruption: What do you call a person who kills a lot of people of a specific religion, uses state machinery to carry out the genocide and is never indicted for it? Is this the kind of person we want to become our Prime Minister? The post of Prime Minister has to be accountable to the public, a person who refuses to touch upon this whole huge blot on his personality even at interviews, is dangerous. You cannot, or rather should not give the reigns of a country into his hands.

3. BJP: Considering that India is a parliamentary democracy, the policies of the party have an important impact on the countries future. A party that expected coming to power because of their claims of building Ram Mandir (Rama temple), is banking on religious politics, something that has no place in the secular country that is India. People leading the Ayodhya movement legitly expect to become the future PM of the party, and this reflects the sentiments and projections of the party.

Secondly, all the BJP ruled states have a high incidence of “moral policing”, something that’s so subjective and autocratic, that it has no place in a democratic nation like India. Forcing people to adhere to the ‘party moral code’, or the ‘Hindu moral code’, is infringement of the rights guaranteed to us in Article 19 of the constitution.

I’ll expand on the points why Congress is better than BJP in the next round. Over to you, Pro :)

[2]; The BJP menifesto.

Debate Round No. 2


First i would start with the personality of Mr.modi


Narendra Modi is known for leading a simple lifestyle which makes him familiar with common people and their problems, mostly politicians who want to serve people have this kind of lifestyle which shows they give importance to improving people’s life style than their own.
He holds a master's degree in Political science. He has a personal staff of just three. He is workaholic , introvert ,crowd puller as a speaker and a practical dreamer .
Modi has also tried to turn his image from an Hindu Nationalist politician to an image of able administrator when he ordered the demolition of many Hindu temples that were built without proper government sanction. Since last 10+ years Mr. Modi hasn't taken a day off from office.

Development of Gujarat:

Over the past decade, Gujarat has made excellent progress on all fronts – and these efforts have not gone unnoticed. Whether it is rehabilitation of earthquake victims or e-Governance implementation for transparency; best practices in solid waste management or environment consciousness.

    1. The only state in India which has the infrastructure to provide E-services through computers to 13685 Gram Panchayats which are connected through Gujarat State Wide Area Network (GSWAN).
    1. Modi’s GIFT(Gujarat International Finance Tech-City): “Built on 986 acres the GIFT project is setting a benchmark for the whole world about how one can deliver financial services, technological security, real time operations, multiple activities etc from a single place, at the same time,” said Modi.
    1. A solution to TPDS(Targeted Public Distribution System)on the name of which UPA introduced money transfer system which is bribing voters officially in my words.

    1. India’s first 1 MW Canal-top Solar Power Project on the Sanand Branch Canal of the Sardar Sarovar Project.Yeah,I do think renewable energy is fastest growing energy source and we must start using it ASAP to save planet earth from pollution caused due to fossil fuels.
    1. Gujarat accounts for 15.14% (USD 114.52 bn) of the total investments in India; Highest amongst all States in India.
    1. Vibrant Gujarat: The Global Investors summit which held once in every two years resulted in signing of 20,000 MOUs garnering an investment of $1200 billion .Of course, statistics show the actual projects under implementation and are commissioned is approximately $280 billion, a success rate of 23.3 which is general for all the states and true for India as single investment center. Still with this Gujarat get approximately 25% of India's investment.

Gujarat has pursued excellence in several areas and won over 100 accolades and awards all along the way. Not only the number is large, if one looks at the list of awards, it includes awards and citations for a variety of sectors right from economic freedom to environmental protection, e-Governance to energy
conservation, health to heritage protection and sanitation to software development,reflecting holistic development of the state.

The measure of ones achievements is best gauged by what others have to say(glance at some notable awards other than best CM 3 times in 5 consecutive years):

16-10-2003 :UN SasakawaAward for outstanding work in the field of disaster
management and risk reduction.

Oct-2004 : CAPAM Gold Award from Commonwealth Associations for
Innovations in governance.

05-08-2005 :Best Investment environment Award by India today.

30-10-2006 :Asian Innovation Award at Singapore from Wall Street Journal
and the Financial Expressfor Chiranjeevi Yojana (initiative for
reducing maternal and infant mortality rate).

03-11-2008 :India Power Awards 2008 Exemplary work in rural electrification under “Jyoti Gram Scheme”.

23-06-2010 :United NationsPublic Service Award for its role in transforming the delivery of public services.

17-10-2011 :eRatna award for eGovernance

15-01-2013 :Total Food Grain Production Award by The President of India.

CLSA lauds Gujarat for growth, says both agriculture & industry shining in Gujarat!
In Gujarat, 37 lakh hectare new land has been made cultivable in the last decade. Industry & Agriculture are both growing simultaneously!

Gujarat is set to become the first state in the country to have a complete integrated police ERP (enterprise resource planning, a software integrating all aspects of an operation) system.
With five million tourists visiting Gujarat in last two years, Gujarat government has laid an outlay of Rs 730 crore to develop its tourism infrastructure in 22 districts across the state.

These achievements make Mr.modi as the possible possible future PM of India
Since the UPA govt is not doing any good for the people why not give a chance to Mr.modi.

1.cmie.socio, economic review 2010-11


I thank my esteemed opponent for his arguments. I extend all my arguments from the previous round.

During the closure of his arguments, Pro stated that “Since the UPA govt is not doing any good for the people why not give a chance to Mr. Modi.”

I would like to point out that the statement is obviously wrong. UPA has been doing a lot of good for India. Apart from seeing the National Rural Employment Guarantee act to its present form, apart from introducing the centralized Identity system (AADHAR) in order to address the targeting problem in subsidies provision, from the various expenditure programmes to boost the economy appropriately, roads, railways, Metro (thank god for metro!), to say that UPA is doing NO good for the people would be a gross factual error.

The Right to Information Act was passed under its governance, that was an important leap in addressing the transparency problem in governance, the Right to education act- that ensure compulsory and free education to all children between 8-14 years of age (the right to an a booming 93.4% of children enrolling in primary schools), apart from impressive advances in the energy sector, agriculture, telecom, health and much much more. India is developing, and has a positive outlook towards its potential future BECAUSE of the progressive policies by UPA.

India today is the only country who hasn’t signed the NPT and STILL engages in Nuclear trade because of the immense diplomatic efforts of Manmohan singh.

People often contend that India was on a ‘wave of euphoria’ when it was under the BJP rule in 1999-2004. They fail to point out that BJP merely continued the policies already implemented by the Congress. There was no revolutionary change in policy environment, and it did finally lose elections in 2004, to be succeeded by Congress. There was a reason for that. Also, we don’t need to look that far back to ascertain the performance of BJP. Karnataka, recently, for example recently chose Congress over the previously ruling BJP, making it very clear which one was the better party.

Now, rebutting the claims of my opponent, I think the audience can very well view the propaganda instilled in Modi supporters, the first important thing mentioned was his carefully maintain and media propogated ‘personality’, not his achievements. There is no basis to the claims of Modi being frugal and achieving the rare feet of being introvert and ‘crowd puller as a speaker’ at the same time. I think we should also note that my opponent accepts that Modi is a hindu nationalist, when he talks about how he has tried to change his image to that of an ‘able administrator’.

We don’t know what the ‘lifestyle of Modi’ is. He did spend extravagantly in his 3D campaign, when his speech was telecasted on specially erected screens in Ahmedabad, Vadodara, Rajkot, Surat, with the help of 3D holographic technologu and satellite link ups. His swearing in ceremony back in 2001, was ‘moderately extravagant’, in the words of his own party members. Modi is an extravagant man.

Now, let us talk about the oft repeated sentiment of the ‘Gujarat model’. What IS the Gujarat model? Can it be exported to other states, like Bihar, and Madhya Pradesh, with weak entrepreneurial spirit too?Modi’s achievements can hardly be characterized as a model. They are a continuation of momentous policy that has a history of about two centuries. Gujarat is one of the few regions of the world which has an unbroken history of entrpreneurship, botrh in production and trade. The societal incentive structure had estabilished a less iniquitous society in Gujarat where artisans, traders and industrialists enjoyed due recognition, unlike in many other parts of India. In post independence period, there was a succession of committed chief ministers, like Morarji Desai, Madhav Rao Solanki, Keshubhai Patel and others, who have all scripted continuous development. Modi was a continuation of the trend, not its initiatiator.

If you project Modi to the national stage, you need to recognize the diversity of India. His supposed ‘Modi solution’ will not work everywhere. For every entrepreneurial heaven, there are states like Bihar, and Rajasthan, and communal hotspots like Karnataka. One needs to take the cultural diversity of a country as big as India into account, when looking for development of that state. Something that works in Bihar might not work in Rajasthan.

And when Modi says things like, “All India needs is the Gujarat model”, he fails to take that into account. He is taking a myopic view of the fate of the country, which would be catastrophic for Indian development.

This is apart from the fact that electing an radical hindu nationalist like Modi as the prime minister would alienate myriad of the religious groups, something that spells doom for a large diverse country like India.

Debate Round No. 3


I agree with you on some of your points.

But just see ,since the UPA govt has come to the power there have been so many scams

Followig is the list of scams:-

Top scams of India under UPA rule:

1) 2G SPECTRUM SCAM: We have had a number of scams in India; but none bigger than the scam involving the process of allocating unified access service licenses. At the heart of this Rs.1.76-lakh crore worth of scam is the former Telecom Minister A Raja who according to the CAG, has evaded norms at every level as he carried out the dubious 2G license awards in 2008 at a throw-away price which were pegged at 2001 prices.

2) Commonwealth Games Scam: Another feather in the cap of Indian scandal list is Commonwealth Games loot. Yes, literally a loot! Even before the long awaited sporting bonanza could see the day of light, the grand event was soaked in the allegations of corruption. It is estimated that out of Rs. 70000 crore spent on the Games, only half the said amount was spent on Indian sportspersons. The Central Vigilance Commission, involved in probing the alleged corruption in various Commonwealth Games-related projects, has found discrepancies in tenders like payment to non-existent parties, will-ful delays in execution of contracts, over-inflated price and bungling in purchase of equipment through tendering and misappropriation of funds.

3) TELGI SCAM: As they say, every scam must have something unique in it to make money out of it in an unscrupulous manner- and Telgi scam had all the suspense and drama that the scandal needed to thrive and be busted. Abdul Karim Telgi had mastered the art of forgery in printing duplicate stamp papers and sold them to banks and other institutions. The tentacles of the fake stamp and stamp paper case had penetrated 12 states and was estimated at a whooping Rs. 20000 crore plus. The Telgi clearly had a lot of support from government departments that were responsible for the production and sale of high security stamps.

4) SATYAM SCAM: The scam at Satyam Computer Services is something that will shatter the peace and tranquillity of Indian investors and shareholder community beyond repair. Satyam is the biggest fraud in the corporate history to the tune of Rs. 14000 crore.

The companys disgraced former chairman Ramalinga Raju kept everyone in the dark for a decade by fudging the books of accounts for several years and inflating revenues and profit figures of Satyam. Finally, the company was taken over by the Tech Mahindra which has done wonderfully well to revive the brand Satyam.

5) BOFORS SCAM: The Bofors scandal is known as the hallmark of Indian corruption. The Bofors scam was a major corruption scandal in India in the 1980s; when the then PM Rajiv Gandhi and several others including a powerful NRI family named the Hindujas, were accused of receiving kickbacks from Bofors AB for winning a bid to supply IndiaA533;s 155 mm field howitzer. The Swedish State Radio had broadcast a startling report about an undercover operation carried out by Bofors, Swedens biggest arms manufacturer, whereby $16 million were allegedly paid to members of PM Rajiv Gandhis Congress. Most of all, the Bofors scam had a strong emotional appeal because it was a scam related to the defense services and Indias security interests.

6) THE FODDER SCAM: If you havent heard of Bihars fodder scam of 1996, you might still be able to recognize it by the name of Chara Ghotala , as it is popularly known in the vernacular language. In this corruption scandal worth Rs.900 crore, an unholy nexus was traced involved in fabrication of vast herds of fictitious livestock for which fodder, medicine and animal husbandry equipment was supposedly procured.

7) THE HAWALA SCANDAL: The Hawala case to the tune of $18 million bribery scandal, which came in the open in 1996, involved payments allegedly received by countrys leading politicians through hawala brokers. From the list of those accused also included Lal Krishna Advani who was then the Leader of Opposition. Thus, for the first time in Indian politics, it gave a feeling of open loot all around the public, involving all the major political players being accused of having accepted bribes and also alleged connections about payments being channelled to Hizbul Mujahideen militants in Kashmir.

8) IPL SCAM: Well, I am running out of time and space over here. The list of scandals in India is just not ending and becoming grave by every decade. Most of us are aware about the recent scam in IPL and embezzlement with respect to bidding for various franchisees. The scandal already claimed the portfolios of two big-wigs in the form of Shashi Tharoor and former IPL Chief Lalit Modi.

9 and 10) HARSHAD MEHTA & KETAN PAREKH STOCK MARKET SCAM: Although not corruption scams, these have affected many people. There is no way that the investor community could forget the unfortunate Rs. 4000 crore Harshad Mehta scam and over Rs. 1000 crore Ketan Parekh scam which eroded the shareholders wealth in form of big market jolt.

This is the UPA govt's failure and You say it would be wrong to say that UPA is doing nothing for the people , since Narendra modi is doing so good for the people in gujrat and i had alos listed out his achievements in the previous debate,it is very much clear that Narendra is capabale of becoming the PM of india also there is not a single corruption tag on Gujrat rather than gujrat, many congress ruled states have done much more corruption .



Extend all the previous arguments. And the ones before that.

Also, I would have preferred if Pro would have cited the source he blatantly pagarized from:

But, more to the point- just because there have been scams with distinct government role doesn't mean that BJP would be better than Congress. A party that relies on religious politics, has dubious 'morals' as there anchor of political proposals, a murderer as a prime minister, it's not really appealing.

Also, a lot of people indicted in the scams have been arrested, and there are being tried right now.

In the 2G spectrum case, for example, all 122 licences given out during the tenure of A Raja were quashed. A JPC committee was formed, A Raja was forced to resign. The cases pending against him are being heard right now.

In the Commonwealth games scandal, Suresh Kalmadi was arrested. had been investigating the case with utmost attention, and would file chargesheet against CPWD and DDA officials, for collusion with Jubilee Sports Pvt Limited, for alleged cost inflation of laying synthetic turf.

I can go on and on, but the point is yes, there have been scams, but Congress is addressing those. Prime MinisterManmohan Singh stated that he was willing to be investigated by concerned authorities when the opposition raised the cry for the first time. Somehow, I don't see Narendra Modi doing that, given that he has used all his political power to ensure that he was acquited in the genocide he perpetrated back in 2002.

The point being argued isn't that Congress is the best party that has blessed the land of teh incredible India since its inception, but that it is better than BJP. My opponent still hasn't addressed this accusition.
Debate Round No. 4


I dont understand how can modi be blamed for the gujrat riots ,it were the muslims groups to be
blamed for the riots instead of which Mr.Modi is being blamed and you are telling that he used his
political power ,then howcome he won the election for the second time.

You would be aware of the recent violence against women and minor girls ,manmohan singh had promised to establish fast track courts for such cases and the most disgusting was the one which
happened in Delhi In the month of january,where a girl was raped in a bus by five men and this case is still in the trial period can you tell the reason for this and for this the upa govt is to be blamed.

I feel that UPA govt has failed on all fronts,it has not been able to bring womens reservation bill and food security bills, also the total amount held by Indians in Swiss banks fell from Rs 23,373 crore in 2006 to Rs 9,295 in 2010.There is ineffieciency in the UPA govt no one in the UPA is willing to improve the worsening conditions in India,there have been scams sfter scams the recent coal and ipl scams are some of the examples ,there has been no improvement in the economy of india instead
it has been declining.In India everyday one girl is raped,there has been no improvement in the infrastructure and we need a leader who can improve these conditions and only Mr.Modi can do that.

Many anti-modi people make his image bad in front of the people (most probably congress)
by blaming him for the gujrat 2000 riots but they will not see the progress that gujrat has made under him and about the gujrat model and with all the achievements he has made in the past 15 years he is surley the best choice for the PM post.

I leave it to the voters now.

vote for pro.



First of all I’d like to thank pro for the debate. It was fun :)

Now, In the debate, I explained why Modi won’t be a good prime minister, because he was a genocide perpetrating murderer, to which my opponent raised a rather interesting point. He stated that Muslims, not Modi should be blamed for the genocide, since (I assume he means) it was the Muslims who burnt the Godhara Express, with all the Hindus in it. A state reaction of killing Muslims regardless of their role in the burning, cannot be justified by any length of logic. That’s straight up Nazi logic, Jews killed Jesus, we’ll kill all the Jews. That’s preposterous.
Secondly, he brings up the crimes against women. I think my opponent is a little misinformed, fast track courts were instated. Supreme Court gave its approval for their creation, and the first one of them was instated on 2nd January (7 days after the ghastly rape).

The rape accused were arrested within 24 hours of the crime, one of them committed suicide, 4 of them are being tried, true, but death penalty is a very big punishment. I would feel comfortable if justice was carried out through due process, and not bowing to public pressure.
The J S Verma committee was set up, suggestion were explicitely asked for, from the citizens of the country (that’s democracy in action for you), and the new law was made. The stronger law. This is a feather in the Congress cap, if anything.

My opponent then goes on to point out that Congress has failed because it has not been able to bring women’s reservation bill or food security bill to light. The food security bill, for one, isn’t being brought to light because of the obstructionist attitude of the opposition, aka BJP, which is stalling basic parliamentary functions, which is a strike against BJP. Stalling the parliament should be an unacceptable way to bring about your dissent. Congress, for one, has stepped up their efforts to push food security bill, by bringing an ordinance to implement the food security bill if there is no political consensus.

Regarding the women’s reservation bill, the Rajya Sabha passed the bill on 9th Mar 2010. It has not been passed in Lok Sabha because SP and parties like RJD are deat set against the bill. Congress is now virtually daring them to withdraw their support from the government. So again, a stepping up of the efforts.
I’d even far enough to say that this is the beauty of a democracy. You can’t streamroll any of the concerns.

I don’t know what my opponent means when he says that the total amount in Swiss Banks fell. Considering that the money held in Swiss banks is evading taxation, is ‘black money’, as the sentiment often proclaimed goes, it’s a good thing. (?)

I’ve already addressed the scams, they are being taken care of. Considering my opponent didn’t address, or oppose the rebuttal, I would say that’s already a concession.

Lastly, and I can’t stress this enough, Modi himself ‘tarnished his image’, when he decided to perpetrate a genocide.

Debate Round No. 5
23 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by banti 4 years ago
An Indian with Vision, Proven Track Record for Development in his state never seen in history (never ending domestic and international appreciations and awards; directly competing with China in industry/goods manufacturing & supply), liked by his Party and outside, becoming Global choice of billions across the country and everywhere of all ages, especially youth by his personified speeches, Work ethic and Fearless Personality (must to have in a Leader), Respect for Great Leaders, Raises real public issues and its feasibility/timelines to address, Connecting with everyone at the right time, Managing Critics well, got all clearances from Top judiciary (SC) in the country, getting to the root level problems (infrastructure, security, jobs, etc), putting all efforts in helping keep everyone in Harmony and Righteous frame of mind, adopting 'Simple Living and High Thinking' mantra. Btw who is US to interfere and judge on to be next PM of India, not their Business. It should better look into how many are sleeping hungry every day in its so called world's richest country and homeless population increasing and people are lacking basic life amenities and bombing innocent people. India is FAR FAR BETTER than US in that terms considering its immense population and doesn't need to depend on others to feed its people. Just few stupid and mean bureaucrats of country...looks what Congress had done over last 60 years (culprit of Partition, Poverty and Corruption). See TRACK record of GUJARAT v/s INDIA, you will get ALL answers if you have a little Common sense...nothing with HINDUTVA, i.e. REAL VALUES of India (doesn't pertain to Hindu religion) even Supreme Court acknowledged it !!
With Front facing heading in news, conferences, debates, etc last but not the least someone Not Born with overnight liking and confusing choice (like AAP) but rather with steady approach and clear ideas/talks --

One and only one Choice to go for Healthy India - NaMo !!
Posted by amey 4 years ago
Posted by Cermank 5 years ago
I am pro- NaMo now. The dynamic nature of Indian politics strikes again. >.<
Posted by wrichcirw 5 years ago
You two should have a debate about this. =)
Posted by Cermank 5 years ago
Posted by rajun 5 years ago
I dont know why COn won this!@! Pro should have.
Posted by wrichcirw 5 years ago
"See, I think you paint a false dichotomy. What the public want, is justice. There'd be no need for 'on-road justice', if there is a faith in the government to deliver justice. "

Normally I'd agree, and normally I'd also agree with your assessment on the government's role in religion, but you have to respect the time frame of events here.

The Godhra train burning happened on 27 February 2002.
*** The riots began the very next day, on 28 February. ***
Curfew imposed on 27 towns on 28 February.
Army response on 1 March.
21,000 arrests by mid April.
Another 14,000 arrests before the riots ended in June 2002.

First conviction in a court case over one year later, 16 October 2003.

There's simply no time for courts, police, military, anyone, everyone, to react to this...the mob was simply this angry, and this the very next day after the Godhra incident.

Apparently the courts tried the best they could to "fast track" the proceedings on this case, but even that takes a lot longer than one day to do.


This is what makes me conclude that the government lost control of the country, that Modi was left with absolutely terrible options to choose from, and that IMHO Modi chose wisely at this point. 1) The government should have been on top of things to prevent 2,000 people from massing into an armed, malicious force to begin with. 2) The public mood was so volatile that there was nothing the government could have done to prevent the riots. 3) The riots were gigantic...30,000 arrests?? 27 cities on a curfew??


Maybe you're talking about prior events to these riots. I'll simply state again that I know very little about Indian politics. You're making a very good case against Modi's party, although I do believe they were democratically elected, yes? This would place a lot of responsibility on the Indian people for the riots.

Regardless I wholly agree with what you deem to be preventative measures.
Posted by Cermank 5 years ago
//What I was getting at was that maybe Modi chose the lesser of two evils. ...//

See, I think you paint a false dichotomy. What the public want, is justice. There'd be no need for 'on-road justice', if there is a faith in the government to deliver justice. 'Let us kill Muslims, or we'll kill anyone and everyone' shouldn't really be a choice in a well functioning democracy. Modi is an enigmatic leader, regardless of where you stand on the issue. Enjoys public support. Had he not been a medieval blood-for-blood warrior, he could have contained them; the way he contained them 3 days after the burning.

A lot of the public wave of emotions depends on the past policies of a party. If a party has a history of engaging in communal politics, there's an expectation of communal politics in the future- and the public emotions are based on that yardstick. BJP relies on religious politics. It promises building temples and stuff to win elections, it *already* sets up dangerous impediments for future communal politics. It was *elected* because of its religious fervor, the public expected them to clamp down on the 'misbehaving' Muslims. It really had no other choice.

Had it been a secular, non religious party like Congress (not really the perfect example, tbh) it would have had more policy options. Conductive policy options.

//The government was probably already scared sh!tless that such a thing like this occurred without their knowledge. The government at this point had already lost control of the country.//

That's... I can see why that conclusion can be made, but that's really not the accurate picture there. The act was a terrorrist activity. The government had made a mess in the past, but it still had control over the future. Just because it had overlooked sensitive information in the past doesn't mean that it couldn't control the future public sentiments.

And it isn't even about public sentiments, just don't kill people who didn't kill Hindus.
Posted by Cermank 5 years ago
//Hmmm...IMHO this is up to the public to do on their own...the government is not a body that force-feeds ideology upon the people (unless it is indeed 1984 this year).//

The government has a huge role to play, though. Religious sentiments can be so easily manipulated, it is scary. For instance, drawing a parallel, there was this case 2 years ago, about the ownership of a land. Hindus said it belonged to them, because Lord Rama's footprint was (supposedly) embedded on the land, and muslims claimed it because it had a mosque over there. The judgement came in favour of Hindus, but the government was tactical. It made appeals, issued red alert, and a potential catastrophe was averted. HAD the government proclaimed this as a victory for the Hindus, or tried to score Hindu points, you can bet the case would have been a blow-over.

So yeah, obviously, the people should ensure that religion isn't the driving force of the public life. And yeah, it does depend on the people. But the government has a very important impact on the public mood. And on how seriously religion is taken. Have state intervention in religious matters is detrimental to the society. (In a secular nation, specifically)

//Have you seen "A Separation?" I listen to a lot of PBS here (I swear I'm still a conservative lol), and heard about this movie a while back.//

I haven't :(

//My point being, after watching that movie, I began to appreciate how religious fundamentalism forms. I personally don't think the government could intervene even if they wanted to, at least not directly.//

I think their attitude towards the rebellion does shape future public action. continued..
Posted by wrichcirw 5 years ago
cer: "To ensure the public that justice would be carried out, and brutally clamping down on those 2000 people."

I don't think I engaged on this point, but it follows from one of my other comments.

The government was probably already scared sh!tless that such a thing like this occurred without their knowledge. They probably would have been questioning their own ability to clamp down on these 2000 people, to say nothing about the gigantic Hindu mob that formed because of the Godhara incident. The government at this point had already lost control of the country.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by wrichcirw 5 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: see comments - absolutely terrible debate, massive plagiarism from PRO and a total lack of engagement.