Naruto Battle! Naruto vs. Danzo
Debate Rounds (3)
Danzo would defeat naruto for sure. And this fight goes to the death.
Even more interesting because both have exceedingly rare abilities. Both are rare wind users. Additionally, Danzo has the wood-style jutsu of the first hokage, which should mean he is also quite adept with water and earth-style jutsu. However, none of those elements have a particular advantage over Naruto's wind/water combo, or the unholy fire of the demon fox. The most dangerous aspect of Danzo's arsenal is certainly Shisui's eye, which was inactive during his battle with Sasuke (of course Sasuke was also worn out from his previous fight with the Kages, so even if they had both been at full power Sasuke may have prevailed), but which I will argue could not have granted him a hands-down victory over Naruto, even if he were able to activate it.
Although we only have one known example of the power of Shisui's eye, we must remember that Danzo's use of Shisui's coveted technique could never have been as proficient as that of Shisui himself. We learn through several of Kakashi's encounters with sharingan users, or those familiar with it, that it takes an Uchiha body to use the sharingan to its full potential. Further evidence of the limit of Danzo's mind-controlling dojutsu is both in the way he used it, and in the ways he didn't. The single time we find out that he has used it is in a non-combat situation, during which he is seated, still and relaxed. We can also note that, even though he vehemently disagreed with the rule of the 3rd hokage, and values the survival of the village over all things including morality, he never used the mind-control technique to do anything about it, suggesting to me that he couldn't, even against someone who was not a user of dojustu. Lastly, regarding the mind-control technique, I will note that various attempts to control or bind Naruto have failed in the past because of the nine-tails which inhabits him. The fox seems to be a natural counter to such techniques, and besides, Shisui was still alive when the nine-tails first attacked Konoha, and was unable to do anything about it himself, suggesting that he could not, and consequently that Danzo would not have been able to control the nine-tails or Naruto with this technique either.
The next biggest threat from Danzo is obviously the ten sharingans in Shisui's arm, which granted him an extended, although still imperfect Izanagi. I could not count on Naruto figuring this technique out in the manner that Sasuke did because, frankly, he's a dunce. I could argue that it would be very unlikely for Naruto to face Danzo completely alone, as he is almost never alone and is very closely guarded by several Jounin who could have clued him into the technique, but I think it is sufficient to point out that Naruto has incredible chakra stamina and that he could almost certainly have outlasted the time limit of Danzo's Izanagi. The crux of that situation would be in whether or not Danzo could land a killing blow during the technique, which considering Naruto's speed in sage mode, seems unlikely to me. Even Pain, the rinnegan user, is hardly able to touch Naruto in sage mode (and Danzo didn't even attempt to confront Pain when he attacked the village). Furthermore, we have seen evidence of the nine-tail's ability to revive naruto from a killing blow, at which point the fox often takes over and Naruto becomes even faster and more powerful. It could be possible for Danzo to exercise some control over the nine-tails because of his infusion with the 1st's DNA, but such a feat was not simple even for the 1st, and his clone seems unable to suppress the fox once it has surpassed a high level of emergence, so it seems very unlikely, even given his proficiency with sealing jutsu, that Danzo would have been able to do better, or even as well at suppressing the nine-tails.
Beyond that, Danzo exhibits no special talents. He can summon a creature that could be countered by Naruto's own summoning, and he can unleash the four seals technique, but considering that the technique is a suicide, I would have to say its use would mean a loss for Danzo. I think, ultimately, Naruto would be pushed near to his chakra limit in surpassing Izanagi, and may even have to rely on the nine-tails for his victory, but Danzo only has so many tricks up his sleeve (get it?) and by the Sasuke vs. Danzo arc, Naruto is damn near power incarnate.
You are right, Shisui's eye is one of danzo's most powerful weapons in this fight. Though danzo cannot use it as well as shisui, the extent to which he CAN use it is of little consequence in this fight. Naruto has ABSOLUTELY NO GENJUTSU ABILITY WHATSOEVER. He cannot defend nor perform it. Naruto has been rendered useless by genjutsu many times throughout the show and has proved incapable of breaking free from it (sasuke vs team 7 reunion and team 7 vs doppleganger itatchi).
There are only a few ways in the show to break a genjutsu, and the one you mentioned earlier is that naruto would use the help of the of the nine-tails to do that. I would like to rebuttal by saying that THAT WOULD NOT WORK. The only way to break a genjutsu by changing the flow of chakra is by somebody else on the outside helping them or if a jinchuriki has good cooperation with it's tailed beast (like killer bee and the 8 tails), which naruto does not. In fact, he STILL doesn't. So pretty much any chance of naruto breaking ANY genjutsu is slim to none, let alone a genjutsu performed with shisui's eye. And even if it doesn't stop naruto for good, it will slow him down or incapacitate him long enough to finish him off.
Now, about danzo's wood style. The kyubi is highly susceptible to two things, wood style element and the sharingan. Danzo has both. In fact it is even stated in the manga that danzo let orochimaru experiment on him SPECIFICALLY to gain the two abilities that would allow him to suppress and control the kyubi at will. Both are effective in suppressing the kyubi and as has been demonstrated in the show (yamato suppressing the nine-tails with his wood style and sasuke suppressing the nine-tails with his basic sharingan). As I said before, danzo is SPECIFICALLY designed to fight the kyubi and thus the nine-tails holds little ground in this battle.
That being stated, the only thing naruto really has going for him is sage mode which has many flaws. First he must stand completely still for several minutes to concentrate and focus his chakra, and I seriously doubt danzo is going to let that happen. Second, once he enters sage mode he can only maintain it for 5 minutes. This brings me to my next point by stating that all of naruto's attacks are close range attacks, especially in sage mode (with the exclusion of the projectile rasenshuriken). Almost all of danzo's attacks are long range attacks, and thus, once naruto enters sage mode danzo can just keep his distance, attack naruto, and then if naruto uses his rasenshuriken he can either dodge or just use izanagi. Naruto can only use the rasenshuriken twice per battle in sage mode, and danzo has 11 sharingan he can use for izanagi. On top of that, the rasenshuriken is the ONLY truly lethal attack that naruto has. And seeing as how naruto is incapable of killing danzo more than two or three times, he cannot defeat him.
Also, each sharingan gives danzo 60 seconds of death free time, but just because that is the case doesn't mean that he has to use all of them back to back. He can just use one, fight some more, then use another as he sees fit.
p.s. The reason danzo didn't confront pain is because Tsunade was involved and he wanted her to become incapacitated or die in the battle so he could become hokage. His plan worked obviously.
I accept your contentions about the potential efficacy of the mind-control dojutsu and Naruto's susceptibility to it, but we must keep in mind that Naruto has some friends who are quite powerful genjutsuists. Now that Jiraiya is dead, Naruto is the primary student of the toad sages, and as he has already summoned them into battle against Pain, I think it safe to assume that he would do so against Danzo as well. The sages can also summon some powerful allies, so this aspect of Naruto's abilities alone is quite powerful. As far as we know, Danzo only had one beast to summon, and it wasn't very helpful. Toad sage oil would easily overwhelm Danzo's creature.
I want to clarify, before I go further, that I am assuming Naruto knows he will be battling Danzo. I think if he did not, which is admittedly more Danzo's style, there would not even really be a fight because Danzo could just preempt a battle by mind-control Naruto by surprise, and he would be unable to summon or go into sage mode at all. That would be more of an assassination, and since this debate is about a fight between them I have to assume that Naruto would have some foreknowledge and be able to react. Consequently, I am also assuming that he will have prepared similarly to his battle with Pain, where he had shadow clones sitting in safety, collecting sage chakra, but since you have already mentioned such a possibility, perhaps you are assuming this as well. This also allows that Danzo will have the sharingan arm unlocked, so it's fair to assume they both are prepared. I think we both want the hypothetical fight to be interesting, so we should allow each character to work with their full might.
Now, in addition to the toad sages being able to help Naruto out of a genjutsu (or to prevent it entirely, since I cannot imagine Danzo could perform the mind-control dojutsu and fight several other opponents simultaneously), I have to contend that the rasenshuriken is far from Naruto's only lethal attack. We can clearly see in the battle with Pain that Naruto's melee prowess is elevated to the level of lethality without even having any weapons, as he kills several of the Pains with melee or with oudama rasengan. In one instance he is able to kill a Pain without even touching him, by striking him only with sage chakra. And remember that each of Pain's bodies was re-enforced with a nearly indestructible metal.
As for Danzo's intentions of becoming the perfect counter to Naruto, this does not mean that he can just easily dominate him. A regular ninja would have to be highly specialized to even have a chance at standing their ground against a Jinchuriki. Remember, Danzo was kind of lame before he underwent all that elective surgery, and there are negative side-effects from some of it too. He has to maintain focus just to keep Hashirama Senju's cells from taking over his body, and will only use the wood-style jutsu in a pinch. When he does use it, or when he uses Izanagi, it is a massive drain on his chakra. Also, the wood-style jutsu is not a very fast technique, so although he may be able to use it to suppress the Kyubi, I think he would be hard-pressed to actually find an opening to do so. We haven't gotten to see what Naruto can do in his sage mode-fox fusion, but he must be insanely fast and strong, and probably would not be still long enough to get caught in a sealing jutsu. Sasuke had trouble keeping up with Naruto when only one tail had emerged, and although Sasuke's sharingan at the time was weaker than Danzo's for this fight, Naruto is now much more advanced as well. Even Pain thought he was ridiculously fast.
Lastly for this round, I think Danzo would probably be pressed to use Izanagi constantly just to keep from being slaughtered by Naruto's sage mode, much less his sage mode-fox fusion. Naruto wouldn't just be standing around during sage mode because he knows it is time-limited, so he would be on the offensive and would force Danzo to use Izanagi since nothing else he has can counter Naruto in that state. And as we saw with Sasuke, Danzo wouldn't have time to quickly switch it off and on. With three clones, Naruto would have up to 15 minutes of sage mode, compared to Danzo's maximum 11 minutes of Izanagi. And that's assuming he destroys Shisui's eye to maintain it as well. After that, Danzo doesn't really have anything strong enough for fighting Naruto in his remaining minutes of sage mode. Naruto could finish him with a rasenshuriken and Danzo would be unable to dodge it because he would have no more sharingans to allow him a quick enough reaction. The range of Naruto's technique would allow him to avoid the four seals jutsu as well.
For the vision of the fight I was actually thinking more like "show up as you are and fight." So no sneak attempts and shisui's eye assassination attempts by danzo and no sage clones lying in wait or showing up with a small army of toads. No before-battle preparation. Because if we had let there be pre-battle planning, it would also be fair to say that danzo could bring his bodyguards and naruto could bring his friends, and from there where does it end? So a simple naruto vs danzo as they are fight will do.
Now for the summonings, yes, naruto has the upper hand. However, summoning so many and so large of toads would drain his sage chakra quite a bit. He'd probably have to sacrifice the chakra he would use for the rasenshuriken just to summon them. Well, at least one rasenshuriken. Which would be pointless because the toads would not stay there for the whole fight. Naruto only has 5 minutes of sage mode and danzo has 11 minutes of non-death. This entire battle will come down to who can outlast who, in which case danzo would win.
Also, danzo does have a summon as well which was only defeated because of it's vulnerability to fire while using it's suction technique. However, the toads themselves are incapable of using fire jutsu so this won't be a problem. Baku (danzo's summon) also greatly increases the power of danzo's wind style jutsus which, being the same element type as the rasenshuriken and having its power increased by Baku, will be able to cancel out naruto's strongest attack. Danzo can also for a wind sword as well as perform binding seals which would paralyze naruto. Throw in danzo's ability to evade naruto because of his long range jutsu capabilities and it's is done.
As for naruto's super secret weapon, the sage mode-fox combo, the counter is simple. HE CANNOT DO THAT IN THIS FIGHT. The original description of this fight stated it was danzo vs naruto (with all his abilities up to the sasuke vs danzo arc). Naruto has just recently been able to perform that combo and since those abilities don't come into play until well after the danzo arc, that ability is admissible. He can use sage mode and he can use kyubi mode, but not both at the same time. And once sage mode wears off, he'd be dumb to use the kyubi because of his once again acquired susceptibility to danzo's sharingan and wood style element.
Most of your last rebuttal was based on naruto being able to prepare before the fight and his ability to use the sage mode-fox combo, but seeing as how he can do neither of those things, he will not win. Naruto is very powerful, no doubt, but he is only powerful for a very short time. Not nearly long enough to be able to finish danzo off.
Now, if we are assuming that Naruto has not been able to plan ahead of time, then we are also assuming that he is not in sage mode already. However, he would still have no problem summoning the toad sages and possibly Gamabunta as well. The kid was able to summon Gamabunta as one of his earliest skills, so by now I don't think it's fair to say that the feat would be a huge drain on him, and since he isn't in sage mode it wouldn't drain any of his sage chakra. But how is he going to get into sage mode (since otherwise he has no chance)? Well, since he is so fond of the mass kage bunshin, I see no reason that he wouldn't just start with a huge clone army, like he usually does, and make sure that several of the clones "get lost" during the confusion and begin gathering sage chakra. it would not take them long to do so, as Naruto already displayed that he could gather enough sage chakra, in just a few minutes, to go into sage mode against the final Pain. Also, he certainly could have sage-fox fusion for this battle because his final confrontation with Pain was when he first displayed it. He elected not to fight, but he was definitely capable of it by that time.
If Naruto sends several clones off to meditate, he would now be limited to two additional clones for battle, and would have to resist Danzo for several minutes with only his clones and the toad sages (although saying "only" the toad sages is kind of laughable since they and Jiraiya were able to take on the six Paths of Pain). However, at this early stage of the fight, Danzo would not be using the mind-control technique in case he needed to have some influence over the Kyubi later, and he would still be unlocking the sharingan arm, which would be very difficult during battle, as he needed several minutes completely undistracted to unlock it before. I'd say we could probably cancel the sage-mode gathering time with the time required for Danzo to unlock his arm. In this case, Naruto has his full 15 minutes of sage mode, and it's really only fair to say that Danzo has 10 minutes of Izanagi, not 11 because he wouldn't waste Shisui's eye on Izanagi in case he needed to suppress the Kyubi.
Here's how I think it would go: Naruto summons the toad sages and does a mass kage bunshin. Danzo summons Baku and the two destroy the clones, with Baku taking up the slack so Danzo can begin unlocking the sharingan arm. Several minutes of battle go on with all of them locked in a stalemate, by which time the arm is unlocked and Naruto can go into sage mode. Naruto presses the offensive, forcing Danzo to constantly maintain Izanagi (which the toads would figure out and clue Naruto into). Sage mode outlasts Izanagi and Danzo is forced to use Shisui's eye for either mind-control (which the toads can disrupt) or Izanagi, which only gives him 1 more minute of it. I don't even think Naruto would have to go into sage-fox fusion, but if he did Danzo would have to use Shisui's eye for that and would not be able to use it for Izanagi or mind-control. That would leave Naruto with the "regular old" sage mode that allowed him to defeat the rinnegan, and Danzo with no defenses. Game, set, match.
Frankly, I was very disappointed by Danzo. He spends so much of the series being a shadowy politicist, who is supposed to be ultra powerful, but then he dies almost as soon as he emerges from the shadows, to a Sasuke who is not only worn out from battling 5 Kages, but who can't even summon the ultimate form of Susanoo yet. All his moves seem to be geared toward being able to have one super-powered battle for ten minutes, after which he reverts to being pretty ordinary, except for having wind-nature chakra. By several accounts, Naruto is more powerful than Sasuke when the latter kills Danzo, and Sasuke not only enters the fight exhausted, but finishes with enough energy to still engage Kakashi in battle, and to summon the ultimate Susanoo for the first time. I was hoping Danzo would prove to be a more formidable adversary, but the old guy just couldn't cut the mustard. Naruto would have rocked his world.
I thank you for an excellent debate. I thought about accepting your debate on Kisame and Guy, but that one wouldn't even be close. Kisame was able to pretty easily defeat the eight-tails. Guy wouldn't have a chance even if he unlocked all eight-gates because he only has close-range attacks, which would just feed Kisame more chakra (of course, it might be a little closer if the battle took place when Kisame didn't have his sword). Give me some that are more closely matched and I'll be happy to "what if" debate you again. Peace.
No votes have been placed for this debate.
You are not eligible to vote on this debate
This debate has been configured to only allow voters who meet the requirements set by the debaters. This debate either has an Elo score requirement or is to be voted on by a select panel of judges.