The Instigator
TheIntellectualDevotional
Pro (for)
Losing
5 Points
The Contender
GeorgeCarlinWorshipper
Con (against)
Winning
10 Points

Naruto Vs. Debate

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/17/2010 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,363 times Debate No: 12778
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (4)

 

TheIntellectualDevotional

Pro

First I would like to thank my opponent for engaging in the debate with me. I would also like to thank the eventual voters for voting for who they think should win.

I would like to establish that the point of this debate is for me to render the opponents team unable to continue fighting, or vice versa.

Now onto the debate! My designated team members will be as follows: Hidan, a merciless fighter who literally can not die. Kakuzu, Hidan's partner who sustains himself by tearing out his opponents organs and integrating them into his own body. And Kisame Hoshigake otherwise known as the "Monster of the Hidden Mist," and rightfully called so, for he shares the appearance of a shark.

The abilities of each of these ferocious fighters are unique and devastating. Hidan, for instance practices a cult like religion known as Jashin in which slaughter is the main goal and anything other than that is a sin. Hidan's religious practices don't affect only his mind however, they grant him immortality. Through much experimentation with his faith, Hidan was able to attain eternal life. He can sustain otherwise mortal injuries without fear and even with a sick masochism. Dismemberment is also futile as his partner (who will be explained in depth soon,) would simply sew him back together. The two even fabricated a combo in which Hidan attacks with his triple bladed scythe, and Kakuzu would use a wind release which would maim the victim but leave Hidan unimpaired. [1]
Kakuzu is arguably more impressive. He is irrefutably intelligent. He caught on to, and thwarted, Nara Shikimaru's (a man with an IQ of over 200 [2] I might add) plan almost instantaneously during the heat of battle. Kakuzu was a Con Man and so he has no reservations about outright destroying you. He is ruthless. His Taijutsu is also remarkable for someone of his age [3] (approximately 91 years old).[4] He is noted as being able to clear large distances in the blink of an eye and simply disappear from unfocused eyes. He is also capable of catching one of Akamich Choji's enlarged punches in one hand.[5] A punch mind you, that can hit someone so hard it would shatter a stone wall. [6] Kakuzu can also tear down iron fences with one hand. That is only the beginning though. All of Kakuzu's abilities revolved around his unique body structure, which was composed of hundreds of thick, dark gray threads woven throughout his flesh called Earth Grudge Fear, holding his body together like the stitches of a rag-doll. This allowed him to separate his body parts at will, to perform long-range physical attacks, and sew up almost any injury he suffered, making him very difficult to defeat. The threads could also be used to repair the bodies of others, as seen when he reattached Deidara's arms, although Hidan's inability to die after being dismembered caused him to be Kakuzu's most frequent patient. He was also able to take a direct strike from Kakashi's Lightning Cutter without it hindering his performance. His threads could even compact together to form a giant octopus-like form around his body. take a direct strike from Kakashi's Lightning Cutter without it hindering his performance. His threads could even compact together to form a giant octopus-like form around his body. Kakuzu's threads granted him a degree of immortality. The threads could pierce the flesh and bodies of others, allowing him to remove their organs and integrate them into his own body, thereby extending his life. He commonly removed hearts in this fashion, keeping a total of five at any time, and requiring that he be killed at least five times in a battle before he truly died. [7] Even this though is not nearly the extent of Kakuzu's power. He would use four of his hearts in battle alongside him. As physical manifestations of the elements they represent.

Earth mask (Light blue): It is unknown what animal this mask was, as it was destroyed before it could be seen, but the heart had an earth-affinity. It allowed Kakuzu to use Earth Release: Earth Spear.

Tiger-like mask (Red): This heart had a fire-affinity, and it took on the shape of a demonic tiger. It could use Fire Release: Intelligent Hard Work. This mask could also unite with the Eagle-mask to launch a fire-wind dual strike, that was near unstoppable.

Bull-like mask (Yellow): This heart had a lightning-affinity, and it took on the shape of some sort of deformed biped with broad shoulders. It could use Lightning Release: False Darkness.

Eagle-like mask (Blue): This heart had a wind-affinity, and it took on a strange, four-legged body, with thin wings. It could use Wind Release: Pressure Damage. It could unite with the

Tiger-mask to launch a fire-wind dual strike, that was near unstoppable. Its power, even alone, easily sliced down several trees.

Water: In the anime, using the fifth heart he always kept stored in his body, Kakuzu could use water-based techniques. Kakuzu used Water Encampment Wall when Shikamaru threw an exploding tag at him, and also a Water Clone Technique. [8]

Last but not least, Kisame Hoshigake. Kisame is a very tall and strong shinobi, with a distinctive shark-like appearance, complete with pale blue skin, small, round white eyes, gill-like facial structures, and sharp triangular teeth. When he removed his cloak he was shown to have gills on his shoulders. Even his name, Kisame (鬼鮫), means "Demon Shark". [9] This give Kisame an advantage immediately. He is psychologically intimidating. Kisame is no stranger to violence either. In one instance he and his partner Uchiha Itachi, were carrying a boy named Naruto and Kisame suggested they cut off his legs to make him lighter. Kisame's main weapon is known as Samehada a sentient, scale-covered sword, that shaves flesh instead of cutting it. Samehada is also capable of detecting and absorbing chakra, but requires Kisame's own chakra to perform the latter. When Samehada absorbs chakra, its scales grow and it slowly begins to unwrap itself. Kisame can heal and replenish his chakra by momentarily fusing with Samehada. He can also fuse all the way to further increase his power along with adding to his shark-like appearance. When fused with Samehada, he gains the ability to breathe underwater using gills. While using his Water Prison Shark Dance Technique, he can take full advantage of that ability by drowning his opponents. In this form he can sense other peoples' chakra, and absorb it just by touching the foe with any part of his body. He can also hide within Samehada, which he states is flawless as he and Samehada have similar charka, that not even sensors can tell where he is. Only Kisame is able to wield Samehada; if anyone besides him tries to pick it up, spikes protrude from its handle, and it returns to Kisame's side. Kisame's shark-like attributes carry over into his battles, for he even shapes his Water Release attacks into sharks. He is also able to alter the entire battlefield by using his Water Release: Exploding Water Colliding Wave, to create a lake's worth of water to give him the field advantage, and to use for attacks Against stronger opponents, he increases his field advantage even further by creating a giant dome of water around himself, forcing his opponents to battle him underwater. Using Earth element, Kisame can use Earth Release: Underground Submarine Voyage to travel under the earth, with the tip of his sword, Samehada, jutting out making him look like a shark swimming towards his prey. [10]

I would once again like to thank my opponent and the eventual voters.
1= http://naruto.wikia.com...
2= http://en.wikipedia.org...
3= http://naruto.wikia.com...
4= http://wiki.answers.com...
5= http://naruto.wikia.com...
6=
7= http://naruto.wikia.com...
8= http://naruto.wikia.com...
9= http://naruto.wikia.com...
10= http://naruto.
GeorgeCarlinWorshipper

Con

I will begin by thanking my opponent for this debate.

-----

I thank my opponent for providing detailed descriptions of his fighters, though I would like to point out that his sixth source is invalid. Nikudan Sensha is not Choji's fist expansion technique [1]. I will now provide links describing the members of my team. I will note to the viewers that the teams were selected before the debate. I can provide visual evidence proving this claim if my opponent or viewers attempt to contest it. The teams were selected in 2-3-1 format to ensure fairness.

Uchiha Itachi - [2] - In the state described in R1 of the cited debate [3].
Yakushi Kabuto - [4] - In his state immediately before meeting with Uchiha Madara following the Kage Summit, with all associated equipment and items.
Nagato - [5] - In his state immediately preceding the Invasion of Pain, with all associated equipment and items, including the Pain bodies.

As my opponent has not set the battlefield, I will do so. This battle will take place in the Dream's End map in Dissidia: Final Fantasy [6] [7]. My team will start behind the massive sword, facing towards the extending pathway leading away from it. My opponent's team will start at the end of that pathway, facing my team.

-----

As my opponent has presented no arguments for me to refute, I will present my battle strategy.

STRAT1: At the battle's outset, Itachi will leap into the air and Deva Path will propel him above the sword with Shinra Tensei [8]. Itachi will fire a miniature Gouenkyuu [9] sized for the distance and the battlefield at the opposing team, which they will be unable to dodge due to the short distance and Itachi's great speed, which I proved to be worthy of more than a 9/5 ranking [3] - over double Kisame's [10], Kakuzu's [11], and Hidan's [12]. While the opposing team is occupied with the Gouenkyuu blast, Kabuto will use Edo Tensei [13] to summon Kakuzu, Itachi, Nagato, Deidara, and Sasori. Despite the fact that Kakuzu, Nagato, and Itachi are present, the corpses are pre-prepared for summoning; as such, the jutsu would still be effective. As the Gouenkyuu blast disperses, Itachi, the Pain bodies, Kabuto, and the Edo Tensei-summoned shinobi could rush the opposing team. Hidan, Kakuzu, and Kisame would never be able to deal with a sustained assault from 13 shinobi, especially after just being hit by Gouenkyuu. Being the fastest of all present by far, the Itachis could lead the attack. They would be able to instantly disable Kakuzu and Kisame with Pupil Technique: Destiny Threat [14] and stun Hidan with a double Bunshin Bakuha [15], creating the clones for the technique as they approach the stunned enemies. Hidan, stunned by the explosions, would not be able to fight off Kabuto, all six Pain bodies, Nagato, Sasori, Deidara, and Kakuzu.

To summarize the strategy: Itachi, boosted into the air by Deva, will use Gouenkyuu on the opposing team. While he does this, Kabuto will summon Kakuzu, Nagato, Itachi, Sasori, and Deidara through Edo Tensei. While the opposing team is stunned and likely injured by Gouenkyuu, my team will rush them and overwhelm them with superior numbers, greater speed, and Destiny Threat.

-----

I will end by thanking my opponent for the debate and the viewers for their time. Please vote CON when the time comes.

-----

SOURCES:
[1] http://naruto.wikia.com...
[2] http://naruto.wikia.com...
[3] http://www.debate.org...
[4] http://naruto.wikia.com...
[5] http://naruto.wikia.com...
[6] http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net...
[7] The above video allows viewers and my opponent to have a better look at the battlefield's expanse than the picture alone allows.
[8] http://naruto.wikia.com...
[9] The first technique, Katon: Gouenkyuu.
[10] http://naruto.wikia.com...
[11] http://naruto.wikia.com...
[12] http://naruto.wikia.com...
[13] http://naruto.wikia.com...
[14] http://naruto.wikia.com...
[15] http://naruto.wikia.com...
Debate Round No. 1
TheIntellectualDevotional

Pro

I will begin by thanking my opponent for accepting this debate.

I do not necessarily disagree with this claim, but I would very much appreciate it if my opponent could clarify what he means by "Nikudan Sensha is not Choji's fist expansion technique," as I do not see exactly what he means by this. I do not contest the fact that these teams were selected beforehand.

I thank my opponent for providing a place to do battle in.

I would also like to note that since my opponent, neglected to describe the the state of mind of any of the combatants. I shall do so now. My team is entering the arena fully aware of the oncoming battle. My opponents team is waiting to spring a trap. My team is aware. My opponents team is anxious. That puts me at a psychological advantage.

While it is true that I never presented an argument, it is because I used my R1 statement to describe my challengers.

My counter arguments: Although I do admit that Itachi has great speed, my opponent provides no evidence to support the idea that Itachi is faster than any other ninja with the jutsu that allows the ninja to go faster than an average human. Kakuzu's Fire Heart could absorb any sort of fire attack, as his entire essence is fire.[1] Thus rendering the sense of shock on my team invalid. If Kabuto were to use Edo Tensei to summon Kakuzu, Itachi, Nagato, Deidara, and Sasori, he would be making duplicates of living and present people, for the purposes of this debate. If this technique were to be successful, it would create a time paradox in which all thoughts and actions are invalid. [2] Since the rest of my opponents arguments are centered around these two ideas, and I have disproved them, I will now provide my own arguments.

My Argument: Once the fire is absorbed by the fire heart Itachi will be in the air, motionless, for a nanosecond. Just enough time for the wind heart to propel Itachi upward. The water heart will create a small water prison around Itachi making him uncomfortable and immobile. The high wind velocity will quickly freeze this water prison and make Itachi completely immobile. Simultaneously, Kisame will throw Samehada at Nagato. Samehada will easily fly though the air, and the steel of the large sword in the center of this chamber, embedding itself deep in Nagato's chest. This will not kill Nagato, as it purposely misses his vital organs, merely puncturing a lung, however, it will stun him, incapacitate him, and create a massive drop in his chakra. This will render the other bodies momentarily useless. This will give Hidan more than enough time to savagely kill each body. Meanwhile, Kakuzu's lightning heart uses the immediate seconds of Itachi jumping to shoot a bolt of lightning at Kabuto, killing him instantly.

I would once again like to thank my opponent and the eventual voters.

1=http://naruto.wikia.com...
2=http://www.springerlink.com...
GeorgeCarlinWorshipper

Con

I will begin by thanking my opponent for this debate.

-----

What I meant by this is that my opponent's video has no bearing on this debate. Kakuzu is capable of catching one of Choji's enlarged punches, a "Bubun Baika no Jutsu" punch [16]. However, Nikudan Sensha is an attack derived from Baika no Jutsu rather than Bubun Baika. As a result, my opponent's video has no bearing on this debate, as it depicts Choji using a technique unrelated to Bubun Baika.

-----

I accept this condition; however, my opponent failed to define whether my team has knowledge of the battle. I define them as having as much knowledge of the battle as my opponent's team. I ask that my opponent refrain from using semantics to attain a cheap victory by placing my team at a disadvantage; I will do the same.

-----

I will now respond to my opponent's counter.

First of all, my opponent does not specify what jutsu this is and does not provide evidence showing that Kisame, Kakuzu, and Hidan are capable of using it. However, I have clear reasoning and evidence showing that Itachi is far faster than Hidan, Kakuzu, and Kisame. My opponent's lack of arguments prevents him from successfully countering my claim.

As to the Fire Heart, the fire heart has never been shown to be capable of absorbing fire attacks. Thus, Gouenkyuu will still strike.

As to the time paradox, the summoned "corpses" are made with sacrifice bodies, coated with ash and dust in the shape of the deceased's body, and made to resemble the deceased [13]. The bodies are not actually the bodies of the present fighters. Furthermore, even excepting Nagato, Itachi, and Kakuzu, my opponent has failed to show how he will counter my team of Pain, Itachi, Kabuto, Deidara, and Sasori.

-----

I will now counter my opponent's argument.

As the fire heart is incapable of absorbing fire ninjutsu, Gouenkyuu will still strike. Stunned, Kakuzu will not have time to release the hearts from his body [16]. Thus, Itachi will not be captured. Furthermore, there is a massive metal sword in the ground between Pain and Kisame, preventing this strategy from working.

As my opponent's team is stunned, Kabuto will be able to Edo Tensei summon Deidara, Nagato, Sasori, Itachi, and Kakuzu. My team will still mobilize, and my opponent's team has no means of countering two Itachis, all six Pain bodies, Sasori, Deidara, Nagato, Kakuzu, and Kabuto. Kisame and Kakuzu can be instantly incapacitated with Destiny Threat from each Itachi, and there is no way for Hidan to fight off all of the remaining assailants.

In summary, my opponent's team has no time to enact any strategy due to Gouenkyuu, and my team's far greater numbers combined with Destiny Threat prevent the opposing team from mounting any sort of offensive or defensive. There is no way for my opponent's team to be victorious.

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I will end by thanking my opponent for this debate and the viewers for their time. Please vote CON.

-----

SOURCES:

[16] http://naruto.wikia.com...
Debate Round No. 2
TheIntellectualDevotional

Pro

I will begin by thanking my opponent for this debate.

I would like to say in my defense that there is no written description to what Bubun Baika can do as far as damage goes. There was no video of what Bubun Baika could do either, that I could find at least. I understand that the technique in this video is somewhat incorrect however, it is similar. My opponent also somewhat contradicts himself in this statement. He says "Nikudan Sensha is an attack derived from Baika no Jutsu," but then goes on to say "it depicts Choji using a technique unrelated to Bubun Baika," if it is derived from Bubun Baika then it is at least somewhat related.

I accept my opponents condition. However, I am somewhat offended at my opponent's insults, as well as his hypocrisy. My opponent says " ask that my opponent refrain from using semantics to attain a cheap victory by placing my team at a disadvantage," is this not what my opponent did in his R1 statement? Did he not choose a terrain that he was more acquainted with than I? Did he not place his team in a strategically advantageous point within said terrain? My opponent says that he is simply clarifying things that I did not, and I say that I am doing the same. I will also note, that I purposefully did not clarify my opponent's team's mental state so that he had the option to.

I shall now respond to my opponent's rebuttal: I apologize for not specifying what jutsu this is. The name had slipped my mind and I now remember. The jutsu's is called Body Flicker Technique. It is a "high-speed movement technique, allowing a ninja to move short to long distances at an almost untraceable speed," [1] as I have now specified, this jutsu is valid. As for the fire heart, I am using simple logic and science. As the Fire Heart's entire essence is fire, it seems logical to assume that any fire used against it would simply become part of that entity. Alternatively, the Fire Heart could simply act as a human shield. Or the Wind Heart could smother the fire with oxygen. Or the Water Heart could extinguish the fire using Water Release: Great Waterfall Technique. [2] Even the Earth Heart could use Hardening Technique [3] and use himself as a flame retardant shield.

I will cede to Kabuto using Edo Tensei to summon Deidara and Sasori, if he gets the chance. I insist however that, as all of my team members were taken out of the Naruto timeline, none of them can be summoned by Kabuto.

I will now counter my opponent's arguments: As I have successfully countered Itachi's attack, Kakuzu will have time to release his hearts from his body. Thus, Itachi will be captured. As for Kisame and Pein, Kisame's sword, Samehada is sentient [4]. So, when Kisame throws it, it will simply go around the massive sword in the center of the room. I have annulled the two arguments my opponent had against my argument so my argument will continue the way I depicted in my R2 statement.

As the rest of my opponent's argument is centered around said two points, and I have more than adequately dismantled them, there is really no reason for me to continue.

I will end by thanking my opponent for this debate and the viewers for their time. Please vote PRO.

Sources:

1=http://naruto.wikia.com...
2=http://naruto.wikia.com...
3=http://naruto.wikia.com...
4=http://naruto.wikia.com...
GeorgeCarlinWorshipper

Con

I will begin by thanking my opponent for this debate.

----

I would like to point out that Bubun Baika and Baika are two different jutsu; as a result, I have not contradicted myself and my opponent is in error.

----

I thank PRO for accepting my condition and would like to note that I did not intend to accuse him of intending to do so; I have simply seen many, many debates on this site won through cheap semantics and intended to keep the debate from being reduced to semantics. I apologize for offending my opponent. I would also like to note that neither team has foreknowledge of the terrain; thus, my previous knowledge of the terrain is irrelevant.

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I will now defend my rebuttal. I would like to note that my opponent has failed to prove that Hidan, Kakuzu, or Kisame are capable of using this techinque, as well as that Itachi is incapable of using it; thus, this point is irrelevant.

The fire heart is actually made up of Kakuzu's threads, not actual fire. It is merely capable of using a fire ninjutsu. Furthermore, Kakuzu is not quick enough to separate one of the hearts from his body in the mere moments it would take for Itachi to fire a Gouenkyuu at PRO's team. Thus, my opponent's attempted defense is invalid.

My opponent has failed to show how his team will counter Deidara and Sasori. Furthermore, his attack strategy is irrelevant, as his team will be stunned by Gouenkyuu and thus will not be able to enact it before being attacked by my team.

----

I will now summarize the battle for viewers.

Itachi leaps up, propelled above the sword by Shinra Tensei from Deva Path. Itachi uses Gouenkyuu. PRO's team, unable to counter Gouenkyuu in time, is stunned and injured. While PRO's team is stunned, Kabuto finishes Edo Tensei summoning Sasori and Deidara. Together, Itachi, Sasori, Deidara, Kabuto, and the paths of Pain swarm my opponent's stunned, injured team, which lacks the power and capabilities to fight off such a team, especially given that one of their members will be instantly eliminated by Destiny Threat [14].

----

I will end by weighing the debate for viewers.

ARGUMENTS: CON has defended his arguments from refutation and successfully refuted PRO's arguments. Thus, I urge a CON vote for Convincing Arguments.

CONDUCT: As both participants have excercised good conduct, I recommend a "tie" vote for Conduct.

SPELLING/GRAMMAR: While CON's grammar has largely been correct throughout the debate, PRO has made a number of grammatical errors, such as "my opponent, neglected" (misuse of comma) and "opponents" (no apostrophe) in R2, among other mistakes. Thus, I urge a CON vote for Spelling/Grammar.

SOURCES: PRO and CON have cited an equal number of sources throughout the debate; thus, I urge a "tie" vote for Sources.

----

I will end by thanking my opponent for the debate and the viewers for their time. Please vote CON.

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Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Loserboi 6 years ago
Loserboi
carlin should win easily the teams are just not fair. Kabuto has the reanimation technique and apparently 4 dead bodies at his disposal to use it with. Pein has 6 bodies, and Uchiha Itachi is basically unstoppable with Susanoo. Itachi can just use the sword of sealing and seal hidan in a infinite genjustsu. Pain can use one of his bodies to absorb all the ninjutsu Hidan uses while the deva pain repels all the other attacks. Kabuto can just revive like all 4 hokages and take out all of hidans hearts. Kisame can easily get stuck in tsukyomi and get stabbed for 3 days straight while at the same time be immobilized as either kabuto or pein stabs him to death.
Posted by Loserboi 6 years ago
Loserboi
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by wesswll 6 years ago
wesswll
TheIntellectualDevotionalGeorgeCarlinWorshipperTied
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Vote Placed by The_adroit_inept_one 6 years ago
The_adroit_inept_one
TheIntellectualDevotionalGeorgeCarlinWorshipperTied
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Vote Placed by TheIntellectualDevotional 6 years ago
TheIntellectualDevotional
TheIntellectualDevotionalGeorgeCarlinWorshipperTied
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Vote Placed by GeorgeCarlinWorshipper 6 years ago
GeorgeCarlinWorshipper
TheIntellectualDevotionalGeorgeCarlinWorshipperTied
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